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Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 18: Ravaging Rapscallions Rapidly Regret Regular Rampages

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[x] Plan: Defense Plan Omega MK3
-[x] 4 points - Retrieve Uzu
-[x] 4 points - Retrieve Tatsu
-[x] 2 points - Capture Crawler
-[x] 0.5 points - Case 53s
-[x] 2 points - The Guild
-[x] 2 points - Civilians
-[x] 0.5 points- Protectorate
-[x] 2 points - Wards
-[x] 0.5 points - Boulder Builders
-[x] 0.5 points - PRT
 
FunkyEntropy said:
The problem is that if we want to do something aside from pure defense we have to gamble, do a bit of triage and assess losing which group will hurt us the least. That takes the C53s off the chopping block as Grom has hinted on numerous occasions that we'll be having problems down the line (we're already seeing muttering in the ranks) and this is something we chose to deal with when we picked Marrow so if there's anything he's not going to give us a break on its this.
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spudman said:
*pointless grumbling about Case 53s being separate from the Wards and Protectorate...racism isn't cool, man :p*
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The only reason for them to be a separate group, rather than Wards/Protectorate, is that the Case 53 defense is entirely about the political repercussions that Grom has been foreshadowing.

Cogsprocket said:
They'll be singing our tune in a month or two anyway, assuming free will's not a thing we care about (which given the thread's willingness to erase traumatic memories and use Personality Override Spike for therapy, I don't think we care about it that much at all).
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General Morality of POS aside, how is that use not benign?
 
Question:

If I vote in THIS format:

[] 4 points - Retrieve Uzu

[] 4 points - Retrieve Tatsu

[] 2 points - Case 53s

[] 2 points - The Guild

[] 2 points - Civilians

[] 2 points - Wards

[] 0.5 points- Protectorate

[] 0.5 points - Boulder Builders

[] 0.5 points - PRT

[] 0.5 points - Overleague


Will it still contribute to the success of most aspects of 'Grind Them Down', while getting more support for the Overleague aspect of the vote? Or are the plans counted as wholes, and the subvotes not tallied individually?
 
I understand the thought behind Grind but if we aren't taking members of the 9 off the field then even in the following votes we are going to be spending all our points on defense.

We won't have 18 points in the next vote since that required prep time so we are going to have to make even deeper concessions between offense and defense if we don't start limiting the Nine's options.
 
Jinnt said:
I understand the thought behind Grind but if we aren't taking members of the 9 off the field then even in the following votes we are going to be spending all our points on defense.

We won't have 18 points in the next vote since that required prep time so we are going to have to make even deeper concessions between offense and defense if we don't start limiting the Nine's options.
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Actually, we should have more. A less mobile Nine means that either we get more points or it costs less to kill/capture one as we no longer have to worry about them 'porting to Bumfuck, Nebraska. The eight points that we spent to rescue the twins can also be dedicated to offense - it's 80% of what we'd need to capture Bonesaw and Bakuda, who should be our next priority.
 
Tsotate said:
General Morality of POS aside, how is that use not benign?
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Using a tool that is explicitly designed for brainwashing and mental conditioning on a victim of mental trauma isn't therapy, IMO. Doubly so for erasing memories because they're painful. It's narratively cheap and personally repulsive (to me, at least). 'Oh, Panacea isn't happy with who she is, jab her with the Happy Fun Spike, now she's all better! Oh, Vista is traumatised, just poke her with the fun spike and we can all just pretend it never happened! Oh, Tattletale doesn't trust us for some reason (hint, it's the using Master powers on the general population without caring), jab her with the spike and make her see sense!'

To me, the loss of memories and/or personality is equivalent to death. I'd use it only on people who we'd otherwise have to kill (IE Bonesaw, Burnscar, etc.) or in cases where it's our only viable combat move (Butcher, maybe Crawler). Otherwise, the thing is abhorrent and I want none of it, least of all on people who we claim are our friends.
 
Cogsprocket said:
Using a tool that is explicitly designed for brainwashing and mental conditioning on a victim of mental trauma isn't therapy, IMO. Doubly so for erasing memories because they're painful. It's narratively cheap and personally repulsive (to me, at least). 'Oh, Panacea isn't happy with who she is, jab her with the Happy Fun Spike, now she's all better! Oh, Vista is traumatised, just poke her with the fun spike and we can all just pretend it never happened! Oh, Tattletale doesn't trust us for some reason (hint, it's the using Master powers on the general population without caring), jab her with the spike and make her see sense!'

To me, the loss of memories and/or personality is equivalent to death. I'd use it only on people who we'd otherwise have to kill (IE Bonesaw, Burnscar, etc.) or in cases where it's our only viable combat move (Butcher, maybe Crawler). Otherwise, the thing is abhorrent and I want none of it, least of all on people who we claim are our friends.
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The kind of things Bonesaw does to people isn't the sort of thing you just get over. If the Twins asked to have the memories of it removed so they could get on with their lives I certainly wouldn't blame them. No one has suggested we use it against anyone's will barring extreme examples.
 
Jinnt said:
I understand the thought behind Grind but if we aren't taking members of the 9 off the field then even in the following votes we are going to be spending all our points on defense.

We won't have 18 points in the next vote since that required prep time so we are going to have to make even deeper concessions between offense and defense if we don't start limiting the Nine's options.
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"Intelligence 5 + War 5 + War(Parahumans) 2 + Stunts 3 + Lisa Helping 3 = 18 points"
we'll have at minimum 14 points( int 5, War 5, specialty 2, 2 die stunt) which is enough to full defense and kill one member of the S9 each day.
then there's other factors to consider such as assistance(eg Lisa), better stunts, and virtue channels.
 
sainen said:
"Intelligence 5 + War 5 + War(Parahumans) 2 + Stunts 3 + Lisa Helping 3 = 18 points"
we'll have at minimum 14 points( int 5, War 5, specialty 2, 2 die stunt) which is enough to full defense and kill one member of the S9 each day.
then there's other factors to consider such as assistance(eg Lisa), better stunts, and virtue channels.
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In future updates, expect penalties, increased costs to protect allies, and decreased costs to take down S9 members.

Things get more chaotic from here, as the S9 goes into Mutually Assured Destruction mode.
 
Gromweld said:
In future updates, expect penalties, increased costs to protect allies, and decreased costs to take down S9 members.

Things get more chaotic from here, as the S9 goes into Mutually Assured Destruction mode.
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Ok, next vote we should eliminate some of the ones who are more capable of wanton destruction. Bakuda definitely comes to mind, and should be a capture target so we can remove the bombs from the equation.
 
Bonesaw next for sure, since without her they would have much less capability to torture and use people as tools and puppets.
 
[X] Plan: Defense Plan Omega MK3
-[X] 4 points - Retrieve Uzu
-[X] 4 points - Retrieve Tatsu
-[X] 2 points - Capture Crawler
-[X] 0.5 points - Case 53s
-[X] 2 points - The Guild
-[X] 2 points - Civilians
-[X] 0.5 points- Protectorate
-[X] 2 points - Wards
-[X] 0.5 points - Boulder Builders
-[X] 0.5 points - PRT

I'm just going to go sit over there, rock myself, and hope this doesn't go horribly wrong.
 
I will repeat myself:
I wish we had First Intelligence Augmentation, as we could net an extra 10 points.

If we're going to be a general, we need to buy that when we get access to a Vat. I don't care if we need to trade out our 4th Intelligence Augmentation, it'll be worth it I feel.
 
the DragonBard said:
I will repeat myself:
I wish we had First Intelligence Augmentation, as we could net an extra 10 points.

If we're going to be a general, we need to buy that when we get access to a Vat. I don't care if we need to trade out our 4th Intelligence Augmentation, it'll be worth it I feel.
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I'm not sure where you're getting an extra 10 points from. It would be 4 if we switched out our 4th Aug for the proposed 1st Aug.
 
Strunkriindiisk said:
I'm just going to go sit over there, rock myself, and hope this doesn't go horribly wrong.
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*Banking I told you so ahead of time*
:V
the DragonBard said:
I will repeat myself:
I wish we had First Intelligence Augmentation, as we could net an extra 10 points.
If we're going to be a general, we need to buy that when we get access to a Vat. I don't care if we need to trade out our 4th Intelligence Augmentation, it'll be worth it I feel.
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And you'd be wrong.
We have limited installation space, and we need to buy 4th Augs for Wits and Perception to unlock SoPA submodules.
Not to mention that we need War charms.
landcollector said:
I'm not sure where you're getting an extra 10 points from. It would be 4 if we switched out our 4th Aug for the proposed 1st Aug.
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Also this.
 
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And I just had to share this:

Trans-Network Violence Protocols
Cost: 10m, 1wp; Mins: Essence 2, Intelligence 3;
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious, Shaping
Duration: Instant
Prerequisites: Piston-Driven Megaton Hammer, Bitch!

Space-folding tesseract technology embedded in the Alchemical's Piston-Driven Megaton Hammer allows him to lock onto the distinctive frequencies of stupidity, tracing them through digital routing lines to attack their source. An attack supplemented by this Charm may target any character regardless of range, so long as the Alchemical has access to the internet and can view a post they have made. The next time the targeted character uses the internet, he suffers the full effects of the attack, often manifesting as a fist that emerges from his screen.

Source: The Demented One
 
the DragonBard said:
I forgot Augmentation had a lower dice cap than Excellencies.
If it had as high a dice cap, it would mean we could double our Int + War dice.
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If I was looking to boost Intelligence, I would install either a 3rd Int Augmentation or a Transpuissant Int Upgrade.
3rd Int Aug apparently doubles base Intelligence, from Int 5 to Int 10 where static rolls apply.
Transpuissant Int Upgrade converts specialty dice directly into successes; for example, an Int + War roll would have the Parahumans 2 specialty converted directly into two successes.
 
uju32 said:
If I was looking to boost Intelligence, I would install either a 3rd Int Augmentation or a Transpuissant Int Upgrade.
3rd Int Aug apparently doubles base Intelligence, from Int 5 to Int 10 where static rolls apply.
Transpuissant Int Upgrade converts specialty dice directly into successes; for example, an Int + War roll would have the Parahumans 2 specialty converted directly into two successes.
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To add on to this, Transpuissant Int Upgrade converts specialty dice into successes which don't count against dice caps. With max specialty dots, this is equivalent to spending 6 motes on the 2nd Int Augmentation, with the added benefit that (if you have Int 6) you can spend and additional 6 motes for 3 more successes with the actual 2nd Int Aug.

Six motes for an effective 6 successes?
Yes please.
 
uju32 said:
If I was looking to boost Intelligence, I would install either a 3rd Int Augmentation or a Transpuissant Int Upgrade.
3rd Int Aug apparently doubles base Intelligence, from Int 5 to Int 10 where static rolls apply.
Transpuissant Int Upgrade converts specialty dice directly into successes; for example, an Int + War roll would have the Parahumans 2 specialty converted directly into two successes.
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It's mainly to get more points in situations like this.

Of course, with the War charms, we could put all our points in tracking down, offense, and protecting civilians, as our forces are immortal with it.
IIRC.
 
FunkyEntropy said:
To add on to this, Transpuissant Int Upgrade converts specialty dice into successes which don't count against dice caps. With max specialty dots, this is equivalent to spending 6 motes on the 2nd Int Augmentation, with the added benefit that (if you have Int 6) you can spend and additional 6 motes for 3 more successes with the actual 2nd Int Aug.

Six motes for an effective 6 successes?
Yes please.
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Don't forget the 2 mote installation cost.
 
Gromweld said:
I count plans and subvotes, and use both to determine what people want.
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Okay. So I can post a variation of a plan and it wouldn't in effect be taking a vote from other plans...at least in respect to the subvotes they have in common. Thanks.


I think I'll sleep on it before posting my vote, though. Either Omega MK3 or Grind Them Down (variation with Overleague instead of Breakdown). Leaning toward the latter but nabbing Crawler is SO tempting.


If we social-fu him and unleash him against the Nine.....ufufufufufufufufu

But even if we don't just removing him from the fight is pretty significant.
 
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