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A Simple Transaction I

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Prospalz said:
...I don't think that Dead But Dreaming is currently unlocked?
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Which is why I said I'm not making any plans based on it. It really seems perfect for my preferences, but we probably won't have access, so it isn't reliable.

Pillars is reliable and also really good for our situation, provided the math about being able to jump right into it as soon as we get it is accurate.

Once and Future is almost certainly more immediate power then Pillars, but I don't want that triple Forebear's Blade EFB set. I want to give our Ring and Mantle some love.
 
BrainInAJar said:
Well, since we will be 9 Arete away, once this vote closes, anyone who wants Pillars needs to be ready for a push; maybe as early as next update. I know I'm bracing myself for it.
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I am sitting and pre-writing reactions right now. The potential of Pillars winning makes me feel like Eldendross didn't win and throttle all my motivation to death all those... days ago.
 
I don't really find Dead but Dreaming interesting because Outer Sorcery is a complete mystery box so there's no value to attribute to it besides "has a cool name". And the alternative to picking up death is a long nap is to pick up things like death is a respawn.

Which we have already been doing. We already have one power that procs when we die and says "Take Two!" [Second Form], and until recently we'd had another that procced saying "You motherfucker! Take THREE!" [Form of Rage], and we know there's at least one more that'll proc and say "Last Take; I won't need another." [Final Form].

So Dead but Dreaming is kind of redundant in the face of just getting things that make dying harder to achieve, so we get more value from the death mitigation we've already achieved


Realistically, what we need to be doing is finding a method of providing eternal youth to Gisena and Letrizia; the former because she's a Remittance and Hunger's BFF right now, the latter because she'll die in her thirties or something from Versh gobbling up her longevity before she met Hunger, and even if we don't take her with us into the next universe I'd like to give her immortality as a gift from her friendly neighborhood tyrant.
 
Dark Abstraction said:
Realistically, what we need to be doing is finding a method of providing eternal youth to Gisena and Letrizia; the former because she's a Remittance and Hunger's BFF right now, the latter because she'll die in her thirties or something from Versh gobbling up her longevity before she met Hunger, and even if we don't take her with us into the next universe I'd like to give her immortality as a gift from her friendly neighborhood tyrant.
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While Pillars can't entirely negate the damage of decimation forever it can extend lifespan indefinitely, so it's a good target to start with.
 
The Versch healing is another good point! If we get a high-rank Armament online, that may be worth more then Once and Future in the short term... Something we should definitely try if we go for Pillars!

Sharkey_smt said:
Nice, but I know the downside of Pillars of course. Imagine seven days of perfect training. That means seven days of build votes. For a place of divine opulence I am sure the salt output is equally divine
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You say this like it's a downside. A lot of us are here because of the build votes, a seven-day high-buildvote train would be quite something! And imagine the Arete generation if we got into fights over it...
 
Conjured Blade said:
I'm very much on the fence here. Seriously so. I'm fine with either but Braininajar's concerns about Forebear temptation are bringing up all my concerns about Faust Alberich scenarios and us turning out like Valeria Trifa from excessive Forebear emulation.
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If it helps I'm certainly on the path of balance, but if you want something concrete i can always offer up my soul a rihaku quest voucher, good for one vote. No veto from me.
 
The issue I see is there is no way to avoid the clash with the Blade folks, so we are just going to have to do it. Trying to avoid it doesn't resolve the issue.
 
Conjured Blade said:
I'm very much on the fence here. Seriously so. I'm fine with either but Braininajar's concerns about Forebear temptation are bringing up all my concerns about Faust Alberich scenarios and us turning out like Valeria Trifa from excessive Forebear emulation.
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I can promise that I, at least, have every intention of fighting against further Forebear's Blade EFBs. Many others do as well. And with the possibility of healing our Armament via Pillars of Creation having appeared, maybe that's enough immediate power to overcome Forebear EFBs! Pillars is very powerful, it could well be able to heal Versch to Rank 8 or even higher, which would be the single best way to increase our short-term power!
 
Hunger can only snap buy things that cost 0 picks and which are already unlocked. Both Pillars and Once and Future cost 1 pick. The only EFBs he can snap buy right now are All-Defeating Stance / Foe-Defeating Stance for 28 Arete, which you don't have.

That said, this situation could change...
 
For pillars to win
A: Another intermediate update needs to happen
B: That update needs to generate a pick
C: Enough Arete needs to be produced to fill the gap
D: The timeline needs to line up
E: It needs to triumph in the face of all the extremely pertinent arguments rival EFBs are going to put out

I'm not saying this is impossible but not a single one of these steps is a sure thing or even necessarily likely, so banking our Temple survival plans on this happening seems quite reckless. In far more scenarios I think we just buy a stance and are then committed to that EFB
 
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I am very much opposed to getting Once and Future next, because it railroads us into getting another Forebear EFB and it spits on all the players that aren't MUH FUKKEN SORD.

We lose the Special Advancement from getting balanced EFB's, which means that the thread is going to go full on SUNKEN COST FALLACY BOIZ and then Ruling Rings will be guaranteed to not happen any time soon, and that's a far easier buy than an Evening Sky EFB since those ones have yet to show themselves as being viable for financing by piecemeal purchases.

Which means that the Magic Gang loses out, the Evening Sky Gang loses out, the Ring Gang loses out, and the Social Build Gang loses out. The only people that will be getting anything will be the Blood Potency Gang (many of theirs don't need Arete), the Save Gang (by default, since we'll be forced to save for the next sword EFB), and the SORD GUD Gang (again, by default).

If that does happen, it will be a matter of when not if, for the thread to go full Sodom and Gomorrah and be struck by a fiery rain of bitterness and for everyone to turn into pillars of salt. I'm not about it.
 
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Byzantine said:
I'm not? We already have high odds of temple survival as long as we arent stupid.
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I've been trying not to be negative and it's possible my mental model is totally miscalibrated here. But delivering ourselves into our enemies arms as we've voted to do, without even taking the most pertinent preparatory picks. Really feels rather stupid to me.
 
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Dark Abstraction said:
that's a far easier buy than an Evening Sky EFB since those ones have yet to show themselves as being viable for financing by piecemeal purchases.
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Except the current situation is such that we can reach 25 arete in a single update if we push extremely hard, which everyone will likely be motivated to even if they disagree on which EFB we should get.
 
Updates that generate at least one pick are really quite common. Futhermore, we've got that Temple social encounter coming up, and that will certainly be worth at least one pick. And Rihaku has implied that the infiltration plan is not very risky.

The only thing that maybe concerns me about Pillars is the timeline lining up. What was the math on that anyway? Something about a full moon being X days ago or something?
 
Thomasfoolery said:
I've been trying not to be negative and it's possible my mental model is totally miscalibrated here. But delivering ourselves into our enemies arms as we've voted to do, without even taking the most pertinent preparatory picks. Really feels rather stupid to me.
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I mean... you do realize many of the outriders we've killed have been adventurers they've turned, right? They do this so much they totally expect it to be viable on us.
 
Byzantine said:
I mean... you do realize many of the outriders we've killed have been adventurers they've turned, right? They do this so much they totally expect it to be viable on us.
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I don't expect a society of people with incredibly suitable abilities for any situation to be fooled by a person that has literally offered themselves up for detailed examination. Maybe the trash mobs they let populate the middle layer wouldn't get much of a background check. Hunger is powerful enough to merit breaking out the good stuff though.
 
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