I don't actually like the Forebear and want nothing to do with him if we can help it.
Many people don't think the same. Indeed, if you don't anything to do with him, why give his supporters the opportunity they need to bring Hunger even closer to him then before? It's quite a risk, why let the possibility for failure open like this?
 
I'm sure Hunger thinks he's best at everything, but don't forget the assassin merc's stealth field is AoE, and we can buff her agility in turn. We can go in the the stealth mission with her us and Gisena as opposed to a solo Hunger.

This isn't actually what's going to happen though, or the point wouldn't have been made by Rihaku that buying shadowlord would allow for the pivot. So it seems to not be as viable for whatever reason.
 
Many people don't think the same. Indeed, if you don't anything to do with him, why give his supporters the opportunity they need to bring Hunger even closer to him then before? It's quite a risk, why let the possibility for failure open like this?
Because reaching 25 arete will always have that risk. And I'm going to believe Balance is more persuasive than a monofocus.
 
Everyone is so sure of their commitment to the balanced special advancement, I wonder if that will remain so when the devil starts whispering in your ears...
I don't even care about special advancement; I am laser-focused on the pillars now that I consider it a viable pick. The disagreeable idea that Evening Sky is not a relevant and mightly potent pick aside, we are never at the freedom of "just save later" or anything like that; every attempt to save for an EFB, or even FB when our arete generation was barely anything, at the start of the game was a fierce struggle with a bunchload of devil advocacy opposing it, and a barrel of people attempting to downplay how good it is.

Then, when we actually get it, everyone is suddenly okay with it, because surprise-surprise, it was actually that good, because it is a bloody EFB.

This is just more of the same.
 
We hit 24 Arete in a bad situation is an instant Once and Future buy in.
Rihaku is not going to buy Once and Future without thread consensus unless we will literally die with any lesser choice. Therefore... this is not a real risk.

Personally there's very little chance I vote for Pillars unless the situation is far beyond my optimistic expectations, and I'm not at all a fan of the three blade motif.
Why? The trick for pillars is we get several days of safe and consistent training, along with healing. We can easily outscale the temple using that, and Hunger can't leave The realm of evening early.
 
Last edited:
Why? The trick for pillars is we get several days of safe and consistent training, along with healing. We can easily outscale the temple using that, and Hunger can't leave The realm of evening early.
I imagine we could also get pretty huge gains for healing versch in there, and I can only imagine what Gisena could think of to aid her own advancement.
 
The ring unlocks Dead But Dreaming

Huh, I'd forgotten about that one. That's another EFB we could go for if we want the full panoply route. Would put off Ruling Ring even further, but...

[ ] [Dead But Dreaming] - 25 Arete. That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons... Death merely induces slumber in the wearer until the heavens align for his emergence once more. Gain access to the [Outer Sorcery] skill, by which means one's dreams may twist reality towards one's purposes. Apply the effects of To Shatter Heaven to [Outer Sorcery].

Complete and utter safety from death - sounds amazing in our current situation. And it grants a magic system (well, skill technically, but when the skill says Sorcery...) on top of that? We don't have it reserved though, so we'd have to hope for it to drop.

Better plan for Pillars, I don't want to get my hopes up for what looks like the literal perfect EFB for our situation.
 
Last edited:
Why? The trick for pillars is we get several days of safe and consistent training, along with healing. We can easily outscale the temple using that, and Hunger can't leave The realm of evening early.
Well, we would lack Arete for some of the purchases but Stranglethorn and Rank upgrades are relatively safe picks. Also can we pick Verschlengorge to come with us into Pillars and restore him somehow?
 
Rihaku is not going to buy Once and Future without thread consensus unless we will literally die with any lesser choice. Therefore... this is not a real risk.

People will just vote for it is the point, and it'll be advantaged in the contest, both because there's a sizeable lobby for it, and it's very likely to be far more pertinent to the immediate situation.

Why? The trick for pillars is we get several days of safe and consistent training, along with healing. We can easily outscale the temple using that, and Hunger can't leave The realm of evening early.

Because that's a pretty rose colored version of what's going to happen. If we're in the temple and fighting no way is pillars winning. The whole strategy relies on getting it before we enter the temple again, which seeing as I expect us to end next update inside seems very unrealistic to me.
 
Because that's a pretty rose colored version of what's going to happen. If we're in the temple and fighting no way is pillars winning. The whole strategy relies on getting it before we enter the temple again, which seeing as I expect us to end next update inside seems very unrealistic to me.
I've expected us to end up back inside the temple for the last 5 updates. I am no longer assuming Rihaku is in a rush to put us in that situation.
 
Well, we would lack Arete for some of the purchases but Stranglethorn and Rank upgrades are relatively safe picks. Also can we pick Verschlengorge to come with us into Pillars and restore him somehow?
Pillars was, alongside with Ruling Ring, pointed out by Rihaku himself as a superior way to heal Versch since... forever? IIRC in one of the first convos about healing Versch.
 
I've expected us to end up back inside the temple for the last 5 updates. I am no longer assuming Rihaku is in a rush to put us in that situation.

No offense but that's not a sound strategy, hoping for a filler update when the vote for this update is literally the approach we're going to use for the inner layer. Sure it's possible, but betting the house on it seems a horrible plan.

You also are banking on the intermediate update that may not even happen to also generate the 1 pick required to spend the arete. Plus the idea that the time is right, which I'd like to see an actual quote for.
 
Last edited:
I don't even care about special advancement; I am laser-focused on the pillars now that I consider it a viable pick. The disagreeable idea that Evening Sky is not a relevant and mightly potent pick aside, we are never at the freedom of "just save later" or anything like that; every attempt to save for an EFB, or even FB when our arete generation was barely anything, at the start of the game was a fierce struggle with a bunchload of devil advocacy opposing it, and a barrel of people attempting to downplay how good it is.

Then, when we actually get it, everyone is suddenly okay with it, because surprise-surprise, it was actually that good, because it is a bloody EFB.

This is just more of the same.
Well, since we will be 9 Arete away, once this vote closes, anyone who wants Pillars needs to be ready for a push; maybe as early as next update. I know I'm bracing myself for it.

This plan also relies on our days lining up just so, an additional layer of risk. Again, the safest path would be to push as soon as there's a pick available; otherwise we might literally miss it and be forced to pick Once and Future.
Rihaku is not going to buy Once and Future without thread consensus unless we will literally die with any lesser choice. Therefore... this is not a real risk.


Why? The trick for pillars is we get several days of safe and consistent training, along with healing. We can easily outscale the temple using that, and Hunger can't leave The realm of evening early.
Thing is; one training session is not enough to get stronger than if we immediately bought Once and Future. Not even close. That we'd still progress much faster 21 days later doesn't matter if we risk dying immediately. I think since you don't see the appeal of being more like the Forebear you don't see how it could win, and the might be a dangerous underestimation. Those who prefer Blade to balance are very real, and those who remain mostly neutral but can be swayed by Rihaku's devil's advocacy even more so. Don't take this needles risk.
 
Pillars was, alongside with Ruling Ring, pointed out by Rihaku himself as a superior way to heal Versch since... forever? IIRC in one of the first convos about healing Versch.
Nice, but I know the downside of Pillars of course. Imagine seven days of perfect training. That means seven days of build votes. For a place of divine opulence I am sure the salt output is equally divine
 
Back
Top