A Simple Transaction I

[Taka]

I pretty much picked it for Letrz only, yeah. Not particularly interested in making Hunger a right and proper surgecrafter, unless someone coughs up like, 25 arete out nowhere.

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I think I voted for Vertex on this Magic System? But yeah. I with doggo here; me picking up a magic system was like, 95% for Letriz and 5% Ia. I'm still uninterested in any super magic blasting stuff that doesn't emanate either from Five Fingers, Make A Fist or SORDRAXIS.

Whether we get some buffing magic or whatnot is just...extra stuff. Hunger just needs to really increase the effectiveness of his current Panoply, and it'll help us get stronger in a more streamlined manner than having to interject more shit into our grocery list.

 

[Byzantine]

But situations like this one are exactly why I say everything Rihaku says that isn't directly stating something is a bad idea must be taken with a pinch of salt. Because he happens to leave out important facts like Surge requiring two arms to use well until after we're bound to it. Despite all his other statements in that argument.

Would we have picked differently if we knew? Probably, since we couldn't have expected Valor to be an option here!

 

[ScalesLikeCinder]

But we didn't even spend anything to get it. Would it be the end of the world if it just became Letrizia's thing?

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More reason to boost Letrizia's magic now and get Valor then! We'll have to get it at some point anyway, and this is a good moment for it in my opinion.

I am very, very pissed that the Uttermost crowd managed to get both of their pet picks in a row. One without even actually voting on it. And I can't have even one thing.

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This is not something I can relate much with, cause I'm not attached to any one option and I think that any build plan needs flexibility to survive a quest-based voting system. Circumstances made Cut Through the most logical thing to gain when we did and even before that when we got Uttermost we managed to make a mess of a build into a surprisingly synergistic one. They were good choices, so I don't regret voting for them. And I do think that the Ruling Ring will be a massive boon when we get it, I just don't think it's enough of a reason to waste even giving a chance to a magic system we just obtained.

• Saving Arete so that we can afford to buy the Ruling Ring ASAP!
• Preparing for a contest of primacy by optimizing our physical body!
• Unlocking higher tier blood enhancements!
• STATS STATS STATS

I'll be happy with just about any outcome from this update. I have a weak preference for avoiding King because 7 Arete is a lot, but everything we buy is guaranteed to give us shiny blurbs & we are not currently in mortal peril so everything is peachy. Even King has major benefits for Team Not Dying

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I needed huge amounts of willpower just to avoid looking at King just cause it promised to be sooooo good under the right circumstances. Still, if it isn't that effective in the Tower I think we'll just focus on other things (like valor, maxing the quickening buffs and probably even ruling ring) and hope it is offered to us again in the future (should be, cause of praxis)!

 

[Wolfy]

Unfortunately Rihaku is very good at writing blurbs and the thread is very bad at long-term planning. This is going to end with us charging a 7 arete option if we can actually make use of it.

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Exactly? What makes you think that I'm not for spending 7Arete on a powerful buff that would let us clear the temple?

And if it's shit we can still get Stances at any point as well, and they do upgrade into EFB too, so it's not terrible value.

 

[Byzantine]

This is not something I can relate much with, cause I'm not attached to any one option and I think that any build plan needs flexibility to survive a quest-based voting system. Circumstances made Cut Through the most logical thing to gain when we did and even before that when we got Uttermost we manage to make a mess of a build into a surprisingly synergistic one. I do think that the Ruling Ring will be a massive boon when we get it, I just don't think it's enough of a reason to waste a magic system we just obtained.

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Except we have not attained a magic system yet. That only happens once we actually select something.

Since I am quite thoroughly against making a large purchase it makes no sense for me to want our build to support it. Particularly when I know a massive number of the voters here are going to fall in love with one of the blurbs or another and go for it beyond reason.

We almost got gardener way back when. It would have killed us. Bloodmight almost did.

Exactly? What makes you think that I'm not for spending 7Arete on a powerful buff that would let us clear the temple?

And if it's shit we can still get Stances at any point as well, and they do upgrade into EFB too, so it's not terrible value.

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Sigh.

It isn't a "powerful buff that will let us clear the temple". Those we don't get for 7 arete. It's some mostly marginal benefit that will read as far better than it is in practice at the time.

We also don't know what will happen to it if we regrown the arm on out own. I suspect the option will get significantly better since it no longer has to burn all that power to heal a cursed wound.

 

[Lealope]

And if it's shit we can still get Stances at any point as well, and they do upgrade into EFB too, so it's not terrible value.

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That would mean locking our the Special Advancement since Stances are a Forebear's Blade option. It's really not good value.

 

[Zfglx]

Look, a magical system won and if we don't want to make our decision of chosing it subpar we might want to spend arete on it. I'd say we see what it is about, rather than killing the choice before we even get to it just because we're afraid it might ruin (it will just delay) some grand plan.

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I'll be frank, I did not choose this magic system an have little interest in it taking up narrative space that we have already committed to cut through, which it will if taken because it is a flashy system unlike vertex. While I can understand wanting to see the options before marking a judgement, we have yet to see the options so why should that effect what we take now.

For the people who have won good for you, once again the vote has fallen in your favor due to some calculation that bridged the gap in votes, I guess letrizia gets her surge powers eventually and thus is no longer defenseless and that is good. However I fail to see a reason why going after yet another shiny that cost Arete, one that is likely too overlap with sword in function as it leans towards power is supposed to be appealing for people going for the ring or for vertex voters who wanted something not flashy and more broadly useful. It is very annoying that his keeps happening but that is fine, but let's not double down on having to take this right this minute cause we just got cut through so it's not like we are lacking for power. Please.

 

[Byzantine]

I just don't know why I bother. I wasn't particularly sold on Vertex but... how many major votes have been won by minorities, now? There comes a point it gets a bit ridiculous.

 

[Thomasfoolery]

Basically we can pick element that is better for buffing ourselves rather than firing beamu, which is what we'd prefer given that we have offense cover with Cut Through. We do need a free hand to cast the buff though.

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Yes, that would cost 7 arete though based on prior guidelines given. Your post gave me the impression you thought it was free utility, just add hand.

More reason to boost Letrizia's magic now and get Valor then! We'll have to get it at some point anyway, and this is a good moment for it in my opinion.

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Surgecraft winning does increase the value of her option I think, even if I'm skeptical about whether she'll actually end up using it much when piloting. It doesn't really increase the value of Valor if we don't plan to make it a mainstay for Hunger though.

 

[Sara]

I'll be frank, I did not choose this magic system an have little interest in I taking up narrative space that we have already committed to cut through, which it will if taken because it is a flashy system unlike vertex. While I can understand wanting to see the options before marking a judgement, we have yet to see the options so why should that effect what we take now.

For the people who have won good for you, once again the vote has fallen in your favor due to some calculation that bridged the gap in votes, I guess letrizia gets her surge powers eventually and thus is no longer defenseless and that is good. However I fail to see a reason why going after yet another shiny that cost Arete, one that is likely too overlap with sword in function as it leans towards power is supposed to be appealing for people going for the ring or for vertex voters who wanted something not flashy and more broadly useful. It is very annoying that his keeps happening but that is fine, but let's not double down on having to take this right this minute cause we just got cut through so it's not like we are lacking for power. Please.

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One thing I'll point out is that surgecrafting gives power by default as a function of the magic system. The Arete pick, which can go all the way to being comparable to The Ring in terms of how much Arete can be invested which says some intresting things about how beneficial it could be, is about much utility, versality, exotic effects, ect Surgecrafting will grant us. Spending Arete on a element is basically the difference between being a DBZ Fighter and Minmaxed DND Wizard, so kind of the opposite of picking a option for more power.

 

[Byzantine]

One thing I'll point out is that surgecrafting gives power by default as a function of the magic system. The Arete pick, which can go all the way to being comparable to The Ring in terms of how much Arete can be invested which says some intresting things about how beneficial it could be, is how about much utility, versality, exotic effects, ect Surgecrafting will grant us. Spending Arete on a element is basically the difference between being a DBZ Fighter and Minmaxed DND Wizard, so kind of the opposite of picking a option for more power.

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It's a magic system. The amount of arete says how broad or narrow it is. That is all.

I have no real problems with the idea. I just find the possibility of us not spending at least 7 arete to be minimal. Because some minority will fall in love with it and win anyway. It will then turn out to be significantly less compared to what they thought, but that isn't going to matter the next time it happens. or the next. or the next.

 

[Sara]

It's a magic system. The amount of arete says how broad or narrow it is. That is all.

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Err, isn't that what I said?

 

[Maragas]

But situations like this one are exactly why I say everything Rihaku says that isn't directly stating something is a bad idea must be taken with a pinch of salt. Because he happens to leave out important facts like Surge requiring two arms to use well until after we're bound to it. Despite all his other statements in that argument.

Would we have picked differently if we knew? Probably, since we couldn't have expected Valor to be an option here!

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Swording requires two arms to use more effectively and we haven't complained did we? We have some Invisible Debuffs because we are missing an arm, a half a lung and an eye. They each probably give something as bad as the liver damage.

 

[Byzantine]

Swording requires two arms to use more effectively and we haven't complained did we? We have some Invisible Debuffs because we are missing an arm, a half a lung and an eye. They each probably give something as bad as the liver damage.

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Quoting me aye?

Indeed. Now, which option fixes all of those, and future conditions.

And which fixes one and then probably causes us to reflexively push back the other option?

You aren't going to be able to shell me with my own words. I have a single position here. It isn't changing. I am mildly annoyed valor is a suboptimal pick at this point in time as I had assumed otherwise, but events and Rihaku have made it clear it is, if only because the psychology of the thread doesn't allow us to get it without immediately "maximizing the value" ...by getting a surge we don't need and that probably won't help very much.

 

[Zfglx]

One thing I'll point out is that surgecrafting gives power by default as a function of the magic system. The Arete pick, which can go all the way to being comparable to The Ring in terms of how much Arete can be invested which says some intresting things about how beneficial it could be, is how about much utility, versality, exotic effects, ect Surgecrafting will grant us. Spending Arete on a element is basically the difference between being a DBZ Fighter and Minmaxed DND Wizard, so kind of the opposite of picking a option for more power.

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That is fair to point out, but once again I must note that that cost Arete to do and quite a lot to get all the way to dnd wizard levels, not to mention that we still have to master it first which will presumably take time. Perhaps it will not be as time intensive as vertex would have been, but it will still take a significant amount as mastery tends to take time.

You know what also provides power, and utility, that we have already invested in, ring and cut through for that matter. This is not even mention how I am still feeling pretty put out by the way this keeps happening, how minority votes keep winning and this time there was a fair amount of participation for vertex including my own contributions. While others might not have been as sold on it I certainly was it sounded really interesting and it was offered as an alternative to surgecasting so is should have had some form of equivalency with it otherwise why offer both if one is just strictly better for those who can pay the price.

While it would be nice to perhaps go the full nine yards with a surge it needs to get in line behind our other spending priorities and that's a long list. Hell I am still holding out for Gardner.

 

[ScalesLikeCinder]

I'll be frank, I did not choose this magic system an have little interest in it taking up narrative space that we have already committed to cut through, which it will if taken because it is a flashy system unlike vertex. While I can understand wanting to see the options before marking a judgement, we have yet to see the options so why should that effect what we take now.

For the people who have won good for you, once again the vote has fallen in your favor due to some calculation that bridged the gap in votes, I guess letrizia gets her surge powers eventually and thus is no longer defenseless and that is good. However I fail to see a reason why going after yet another shiny that cost Arete, one that is likely too overlap with sword in function as it leans towards power is supposed to be appealing for people going for the ring or for vertex voters who wanted something not flashy and more broadly useful. It is very annoying that his keeps happening but that is fine, but let's not double down on having to take this right this minute cause we just got cut through so it's not like we are lacking for power. Please.

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I have no idea what the other people voting for Surgecraft want, cause we're not a hive-mind. Personally, I'd be okay with voting for the lowest arete buff-type Surge cause we'd have more than enough ranged firepower already- thanks to Valor boosting our sword winds. What I'm suggesting, is simply to take Valor and buff Letrizia, and then we'll even be more motivated to get Ruling Ring to unlock her magic powers!

I just don't know why I bother. I wasn't particularly sold on Vertex but... how many major votes have been won by minorities, now? There comes a point it gets a bit ridiculous.

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I know it's not comparable, but just a bit after I joined writing posts in this quest I had a streak of things I didn't vote for winning till we got to uttermost. And some of those times the most voted option was exactly the one I wanted and exactly the one who lost. "Minorities" win cause part of them (my god, certainly not everyone) put a lot of effort into the vote, and if the system works like this there's not much we can do about it. I feel it's pretty fair all things considered.

Considering how we managed to get Cut Through just this vote, I feel pretty positive that Ruling Ring is the next 25 Arete option we'll get. Especially cause +2 to Combat Rank and ++Progression is something that is extremely palatable to everyone. We have at least 11 non-arete picks with Stranglethorn, the Quickening buffs, and Valor and that's discounting the possibility of another non-Arete Advancement with lots of picks required. That's a lot of buffering to save 18 Arete, even if we end up spending some for Surgecraft next vote.

 

[Wolfy]

I want to make an argument that Valor is not that bad, but it kind of is..

 

[Talace]

I want to make an argument that Valor is not that bad, but it kind of is..

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The invisible bonuses of a second hand are large and immense! Imagine being able to double the effective Strength of a blow since we're twohanding a sword (this is probably wrong due to some damage calc, but you get my point!)

 

[Byzantine]

I know it's not comparable, but just a bit after I joined writing posts in this quest I had a streak of things I didn't vote for winning till we got to uttermost. And some of those times the most voted option was exactly the one I wanted and exactly the one who lost. "Minorities" win cause part of them (my god, certainly not everyone) put a lot of effort into the vote, and if the system works like this there's not much we can do about it. I feel it's pretty fair all things considered.

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My post count for this thread is 1,424. The only person with more posts than me is Rihaku. The closest person behind me is LordOfMurder, who is almost 600 posts lower.

Forgive me for saying bullshit to it being fair.

The invisible bonuses of a second hand are large and immense! Imagine being able to double the effective Strength of a blow since we're twohanding a sword (this is probably wrong due to some damage calc, but you get my point!)

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Rihaku basically said all of that is meh at best, earlier.

 

[Talace]

Rihaku basically said all of that is meh at best, earlier.

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I'm okay with that! I find Arm + Okay Bonuses and Stats + Ruin Scaling to be sufficiently rewarding!

On a side note-- I dub this work: Look, a Fish!

 

[Byzantine]

Especially cause +2 to Combat Rank and ++Progression is something that is extremely palatable to everyone

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It does not give +2 to combat rank.

if we do not save for it, we will never get it. Saving for it is deeply unlikely without people being badgered into it. I really shouldn't be doing this to myself, and I'm pretty sure distracting myself from the reason my life sucks in this manner is not healthy, but meh. Point is if we break discipline now and spend impulsively, as we are incredibly liable to do, I have no doubt the next time the ring will be a serious contender won't be for months. If even then.

I don't really care about Valor. It's a bad pick, apparently, but whatever. My point is I am very... frustrated at the people who were agreeing with me until the first shiny showed up and they forgot all reason. Again.

 

[Elero]

We literally just got a magic system in the imperial sword praxis, we do not need to waste all our arete on getting some middling element that we'd need to train up into being useful in the first place.

 

[Byzantine]

We literally just got a magic system in the imperial sword praxis, we do not need to waste all our arete on getting some middling element that we'd need to train up into being useful in the first place.

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And again please remember we are explicitly bad at training except under very specific circumstances we cannot force.

 

[Elero]

Yep. If it is an option I will vote for the 0 arete option for the element.

 

[ScalesLikeCinder]

Rihaku basically said all of that is meh at best, earlier.

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Valor having ruin scaling with strenght does have the strenght of our sword winds increasing significantly I think, that's just something Rihaku hasn't brought up when talking about Valor. Even more reason to get a buff-type Surge rather than a blast-type one.

It does not give +2 to combat rank.

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Yeah, I... confused it with Once and Future for a moment, sorry.