- Location
- Omniverse #1345
My current belief is Gisena is completely incapable of harming it, so it just ignores her as not its problem.
I'm surprised at you. Taking an option with a 10% chance of Gisena dying?
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
I feel like we know nothing of the inner residents. We could assume that they're something akin to the Magus. Rank and soul evocations yielding unique, powerful options from each. Their civilization benefits (somehow) from the trapped Ring, drawing power or sustenance or some other benefit from its imprisonment. The Magus bore a magical dagger, so their fine equipment will be similarly enhanced. Even without his spells he was a superhuman combatant skilled in combat, so we can expect better-than human abilities.
The term 'outrider' implies but does not guarantee cavalry. Their mounts will certainly be of superior stock, but whether they're terrible beasts dangerous in their own right or optimized tireless fast ponies, I can't say. Further, they patrol. The first function of a patrol is not to defeat threats, but to identify them. It may be more important to have Gisena shut down magical means of communication, rather than aid us in the battle directly. Unless they have frickin radios or horns or whatever that doesn't need magic, ofc. Regardless, we need to consider this a fight with a time-limit, because they certainly have allies somewhere, even if they're not immediately running away to find them.
Diplomatically, we're a crazed sexy murder-hobo with an also-crazed also-sexy sorceress in tow. I don't think we're holding many cards. The greatest desire of these people seems to be isolation. They're not making any visible attempts to interact with the outside world besides killing the bits of it that intrude. We could perhaps offer our assistance in this matter, but participating in the wholesale slaughter ofinnocent hapless adventurers seems a bit much. Particularly given that we'd be actively plotting betrayal as soon as we're granted passage further inside. For another angle of deception, we could play the lamb trotting to slaughter, and double their supply of stupid trapped ring-bearers! Pretty awful idea though, since we'd immediately be carted off to someplace with even stronger opposition, and well-established means of capturing and exploiting supernatural jewelry.
Straight intimidation? Actual no-kidding seduction? There isn't much nuance to be had in these options. I got nothing.
In the actual combat, I expect mobile, canny combined-arms tactics featuring several distinct fighting styles designed to leverage several distinct soul-evocations. I don't think they'll have a weak link, but it's likely there will be a path of least resistance. Hopefully we can spot and attack that point before they can take advantage of our focus, and remove an element of the opposition. They're a match for us as a unit, not as individuals, so hopefully a casualty would tilt things in our favor.
Perhaps intimidation would be more viable after a death, and such methods are extremely, straight-forward, but I wouldn't hold my breath. More likely they'll attempt to disengage or fight to the bitter end, rather than take a break to listen to the one-armed man sling insults.
Actually fighting mounted opponents as a dude on the ground sucks. Every attempt should be made to seek more favorable terrain. Fortifications, forests,marsh, probably not marsh (it sucks), anything that provides impediment to rapid hooved motion. If they got clawstriders and ride charms then I guess we just die.
Exhaustion seems to be a big advantage for us, with the Ring in power. These guys don't immediately demonstrate Ruin, or the power to swat us down immediately, so a protracted fight might be to our advantage. Drag things out by repeatedly disengaging, use the ring to tire them faster while our blood remains fresh, things like that. Again, being the guy who's walking isn't great for this.
It's obvious enough to go unstated (I hope) but kill the mounts if you can, baka.
The term 'outrider' implies but does not guarantee cavalry. Their mounts will certainly be of superior stock, but whether they're terrible beasts dangerous in their own right or optimized tireless fast ponies, I can't say. Further, they patrol. The first function of a patrol is not to defeat threats, but to identify them. It may be more important to have Gisena shut down magical means of communication, rather than aid us in the battle directly. Unless they have frickin radios or horns or whatever that doesn't need magic, ofc. Regardless, we need to consider this a fight with a time-limit, because they certainly have allies somewhere, even if they're not immediately running away to find them.
Diplomatically, we're a crazed sexy murder-hobo with an also-crazed also-sexy sorceress in tow. I don't think we're holding many cards. The greatest desire of these people seems to be isolation. They're not making any visible attempts to interact with the outside world besides killing the bits of it that intrude. We could perhaps offer our assistance in this matter, but participating in the wholesale slaughter of
Straight intimidation? Actual no-kidding seduction? There isn't much nuance to be had in these options. I got nothing.
In the actual combat, I expect mobile, canny combined-arms tactics featuring several distinct fighting styles designed to leverage several distinct soul-evocations. I don't think they'll have a weak link, but it's likely there will be a path of least resistance. Hopefully we can spot and attack that point before they can take advantage of our focus, and remove an element of the opposition. They're a match for us as a unit, not as individuals, so hopefully a casualty would tilt things in our favor.
Perhaps intimidation would be more viable after a death, and such methods are extremely, straight-forward, but I wouldn't hold my breath. More likely they'll attempt to disengage or fight to the bitter end, rather than take a break to listen to the one-armed man sling insults.
Actually fighting mounted opponents as a dude on the ground sucks. Every attempt should be made to seek more favorable terrain. Fortifications, forests,
Exhaustion seems to be a big advantage for us, with the Ring in power. These guys don't immediately demonstrate Ruin, or the power to swat us down immediately, so a protracted fight might be to our advantage. Drag things out by repeatedly disengaging, use the ring to tire them faster while our blood remains fresh, things like that. Again, being the guy who's walking isn't great for this.
It's obvious enough to go unstated (I hope) but kill the mounts if you can, baka.
Rihaku
The Internet
Btw, that is something you can actually buy if you fulfill the requirements!
You can't leave anymore! Hunger won't allow it!
You underestimate the power of Progression... a mere threefold increase in total strength is certainly possible by the end of the Temple, likely far more. After all, it's not like Ber's only going to triple in strength by the time he comes for you!
Indeed. Perhaps you can have Gisena try distracting him while you fight?
What a multi-talented display!
Hm... he may not have anything like blood, but landing some Fell-Handed Strokes might serve a similar purpose!
Maybe if you were some kind of super juggernaut undead chimera!
It's a roughly commensurate increase in risk for her, yeah. 1% chance of Hunger's death vs. the Trio, 5% for Gisena; 2% against the Outriders, 10% for Gisena. But the Knight-Commander has a frankly stunning 10.2% chance of death for Hunger, which is... yeah. There's a reason feats that automatically increase Rank are called 'fucking insane'.
Hm, we could try displaying the Ring as a ploy to make them go nonlethal, try to capture us and supplement their operation? The Ring and rags seem critical to any social strategy. Timing Pressure flares with making their blood quail in fear; maybe doing something with the blood of their defeated peer? But we have no idea how their Moon-harvesting operation works and letting them flee to carry news of a Ringbearer might win us a social victory only to screw us over later.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Perhaps the Knight Commander believes that Gisena is a member of the Inner Residents. In Shade form, we could appear as her bodyguard!
We should have taken Ring Attunement then. Unfortunate.
Hm. If we can convert the battle into one of attrition, where we strike, retreat/heal, and repeat, perhaps with a demoralizing speed of regeneration (feat of exertion with blood domain), the Knight Commander may conclude that combat is unwinnable. Combine with the tattered robes, we simply have to play a confidence game and imply invincibility via regeneration.
[X] Knight-Commander
[X] Level Up Gisena
Given the fact the Knight-Commander is described as fighting to protect his charge, I suspect it's not here willingly. The inner residents may have cast some kind of control over it or be blackmailing it. It's even possible it serves the imprisoned moon.
[X] Level Up Gisena
Given the fact the Knight-Commander is described as fighting to protect his charge, I suspect it's not here willingly. The inner residents may have cast some kind of control over it or be blackmailing it. It's even possible it serves the imprisoned moon.
- Location
- Earth
Also @Orm Embar no rush but looks like you forgot to add lo-fi hip hop beats Letrizia to the index!
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
A Simple Transaction I Original
A quest about a simple transaction and the consequences that follow.
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Knight-Commander does have a higher chance of no one dying than
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- Location
- Omniverse #1345
You mean outriders, Trio is significantly safer and can probably be mitigated entirely with plans.
The "eons of combat experience" mean it's likely that the knight commander was alive long before the ring-bearer was imprisoned.
Given that we assaulted the caravan it would be best to avoid the outpost.
Regarding the Knight-Commander and our Ring:
room update both in and out of character. Did we at least get some loot?
Its flesh has 'unusual solidity' and its lesser counterparts do bleed, at least when struck in the heart. Bloodmight's likely got diminished efficacy against it; not totally useless, but not a crippling debuff.
Thanks, fixed. I really should stop trying to add stuff from my phone.
Yeeeah, I like how we're totally eliding over the elephant in the
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
true thank you
Rihaku
The Internet
They don't have any trapped Ring-bearers, just a trapped Ring!
Insults are probably not likely to work except to provoke them. To actually slay them with insults would be interesting, but would require Zhuge Liang-esque feats of oratorical might! But there could certainly be other means of breaking their will...
Well, in ghost form you can ghost right over marsh!
Who needs clawstriders? Gisena has Hunger! The absolute unquestionable strongest mount, with properties vampire, lich, zombie and ghost!
It doesn't give Arete, though! And that Condition chance is certainly rough. The main issue is that he doesn't get steamrolled by Form of Rage like the other two do...
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
I don't... think we did? "Menacing" is just what Hunger does, it doesn't mean we attacked them. "Anything else?" isn't a command, so Tyrant shouldn't have procced.
I say that, but it cuts off so ambiguously, because Rihaku is a troll, so who knows.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Given the ++Heartlessness we've taken I think we should assume they're deadI don't... think we did? "Menacing" is just what Hunger does, it doesn't mean we attacked them. "Anything else?" isn't a command, so Tyrant shouldn't have procced.
I say that, but it cuts off so ambiguously, because Rihaku is a troll, so who knows.
I'd guess that the caravan people were so terrified of us they just gave us the potions instead of calling the Dreadbeast. They consider the magus stronger than the Dreadbeast after all. And so now they hate us, and so does everyone else at the outpost.
Also, Tyrants? Not known for paying for things, very much known for just taking things.
I love the idea of Gisena as bait or deception for the Giant. It's ridiculously, absurdly dangerous, and possibly changing that 0% death to a much less favorable set of outcomes, but it could put us in a better position to fight the thing. It attacks all intruders, so its seeming lack of hostility towards our sorceress is very odd. Is it straight up dudes-only classic chivalry? Does it perceive her as something different than an intruder? Does she remind him of the pretty moon lady locked up further inside?
It's hard to say. I think the likely answer is that she's not a threat. It recognizes the ring, and the threat we pose, and is intuitive enough to grasp that Gisena isn't likely or particularly able to pursue a vengeful crusade after Hunger's unfortunate demise.
If it doesn't see Gisena's nullity as a threat, even with centuries of combat experience and formidable mental powers, then she may well not be one. That'd be bad!
On the other hand, perhaps it sees her as someone we protect, just as it protects its own charges. Maybe it sympathizes with us too much to go straight for the heart, and that's reflected in its Deathless Brotherhood?
We're an imprisoner, and one who manages a prison also has charges. Does it protect kin, for the care that it feels for them, or does it simply fulfill its duty, regardless of what that task might be? I think a craven creature is more likely to be bound by love than duty. Fear is more easily defeated by worrying for something beyond one's self.
I'm waxing poetic so the useful stuff is clearly done.
On fighting the guy, holy shit he's got mitts! Looks like yet another case of I-sure-regret-not-maximizing-blade-wind! In my defense, the longbow is also pretty sick. I'd say standoff tactics are right out.
A lance is distinct from a spear in that it's a weapon for charging and aggression, not a weapon for bracing and keeping range. His speed and strength are enormous, so charging in for the big-stickin seems pretty damn effective. Once committed, he's probably better off with his cestus than the Lance. That leaves a mid-range option open against someone of similar size, or in our case leaves us trying to stay in the sweet spot against a guy with about a hundred times our reach and strength, who's plausibly as fast or faster than us! Not great. On the other hand, if shield-Gisena does work without ruining everything, we could dance around her and force him to be delicate! I don't think we're that lucky.
Shadow-of-the-Colossus seems like the way to go here. Can't reach that odd spot on his back if he's human-proportioned, and it's hard to smash a ghost to death against the countryside. Lances and bows are a particularly poor choice for swatting a fly on your ass, so maybe we could get away with it until he gets one of his juniors to knock us off. The approach is murderously difficult of course, and actually doing enough damage to bring him down from such a position is quite hard without big glowing weak points.
I'd appeal to his knightly nature and try to get some kind of a formalized duel with rules if he weren't craven and way more experienced than Hunger. Don't really want to try the Age and Treachery stuff on our ultra-grandpa opponent, though.
Edit: doh I skipped over the sword! forget about climbing him, it was a silly idea.
It's hard to say. I think the likely answer is that she's not a threat. It recognizes the ring, and the threat we pose, and is intuitive enough to grasp that Gisena isn't likely or particularly able to pursue a vengeful crusade after Hunger's unfortunate demise.
If it doesn't see Gisena's nullity as a threat, even with centuries of combat experience and formidable mental powers, then she may well not be one. That'd be bad!
On the other hand, perhaps it sees her as someone we protect, just as it protects its own charges. Maybe it sympathizes with us too much to go straight for the heart, and that's reflected in its Deathless Brotherhood?
We're an imprisoner, and one who manages a prison also has charges. Does it protect kin, for the care that it feels for them, or does it simply fulfill its duty, regardless of what that task might be? I think a craven creature is more likely to be bound by love than duty. Fear is more easily defeated by worrying for something beyond one's self.
I'm waxing poetic so the useful stuff is clearly done.
On fighting the guy, holy shit he's got mitts! Looks like yet another case of I-sure-regret-not-maximizing-blade-wind! In my defense, the longbow is also pretty sick. I'd say standoff tactics are right out.
A lance is distinct from a spear in that it's a weapon for charging and aggression, not a weapon for bracing and keeping range. His speed and strength are enormous, so charging in for the big-stickin seems pretty damn effective. Once committed, he's probably better off with his cestus than the Lance. That leaves a mid-range option open against someone of similar size, or in our case leaves us trying to stay in the sweet spot against a guy with about a hundred times our reach and strength, who's plausibly as fast or faster than us! Not great. On the other hand, if shield-Gisena does work without ruining everything, we could dance around her and force him to be delicate! I don't think we're that lucky.
Shadow-of-the-Colossus seems like the way to go here. Can't reach that odd spot on his back if he's human-proportioned, and it's hard to smash a ghost to death against the countryside. Lances and bows are a particularly poor choice for swatting a fly on your ass, so maybe we could get away with it until he gets one of his juniors to knock us off. The approach is murderously difficult of course, and actually doing enough damage to bring him down from such a position is quite hard without big glowing weak points.
I'd appeal to his knightly nature and try to get some kind of a formalized duel with rules if he weren't craven and way more experienced than Hunger. Don't really want to try the Age and Treachery stuff on our ultra-grandpa opponent, though.
Edit: doh I skipped over the sword! forget about climbing him, it was a silly idea.
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Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
But we did pay for the information with a scale. Although the merchant said the deal was for two bits, but he didn't stop when Hunger kept asking, but that's on him, really.
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
Hmmm... If deception explicitly won't work, then probably the demoralization tactics to appeal to his craven nature would work.
Let's take stock of what we know about the knights in general:
I think, however, we can attempt to demoralize the Knight Commander. He probably knows a few datapoints about us: we have a way to disspell the shadowstuff, we grow exponentially stronger over time, and that we have an innate understanding of battle tactic and strategy ourselves. We could put forward that we could make his life very very hard, if not eventually kill him, and gradually reduce his tools to make him vulnerable to the other beasts and dangers lurking within the Temple. We could also threaten to kill him, pointing out that he doesn't know how much we've grown (and I hope that levelling up Gisena also powers up our ability to nullify the shadowstuff).
It would also make sense to me that they have other duties to take care of, because it doesn't make sense to me that intelligent control would begin showing itself after we start being a nuisance. This might be a logical leap, but I could theoretically see Knight Commanders and their Legions being allocated to handle threats elsewhere, and only being allocated here after realizing we present a meaningful threat. As such, we could balance our tremendous growth rate against their desire to fulfill their duty in other places, and convince him to let us through.
Let's take stock of what we know about the knights in general:
- They don't take damage like normal humans, in that strikes against the shadowstuff don't seem to do damage.
- Their armor is imbued by magic that tears at the Evening Sky.
- When limbs are severed, they are not regenerated. It seems like amputation instead of wounding strikes are the way to go.
- When seriously damaged, they retreat (but they are capable of deception, and will bait you in to try and catch you off-guard).
- They can bleed out? (probably the essence/magic that empowers them)
- They have a heart in their chest that, when when destroyed, causes the smokestuff to dissipate and renders the armor inert.
- The knights are positioned in strategically relevant places-- showing evidence of some intelligent hand guiding them there, or perhaps an innate understanding of battle tactics.
- After dispatching several singleton knights, they began to group up and patrol in areas where we appeared.
- They attempted to pincer us into an ambush, using a single knight as bait.
- Someone pointed out that one of the prominent foes we could have encountered was a Knight Legion that was intelligently coordinated and held a variety of weapons and specialists.
- They formed into a shield-wall, an attempt to gather together (not necessarily for us)-- and were swiftly snuffed out by Gisena and Hunger.
I think, however, we can attempt to demoralize the Knight Commander. He probably knows a few datapoints about us: we have a way to disspell the shadowstuff, we grow exponentially stronger over time, and that we have an innate understanding of battle tactic and strategy ourselves. We could put forward that we could make his life very very hard, if not eventually kill him, and gradually reduce his tools to make him vulnerable to the other beasts and dangers lurking within the Temple. We could also threaten to kill him, pointing out that he doesn't know how much we've grown (and I hope that levelling up Gisena also powers up our ability to nullify the shadowstuff).
It would also make sense to me that they have other duties to take care of, because it doesn't make sense to me that intelligent control would begin showing itself after we start being a nuisance. This might be a logical leap, but I could theoretically see Knight Commanders and their Legions being allocated to handle threats elsewhere, and only being allocated here after realizing we present a meaningful threat. As such, we could balance our tremendous growth rate against their desire to fulfill their duty in other places, and convince him to let us through.
Rihaku
The Internet
Current vote count?
Well, it's still nice to have an extra pick this time, especially if you guys do end up taking Hunter Trio, but even with either of the other options. 5 picks for Knight Commander means you can get a Defining + one other thing!
True! Though if you get it into such a disadvantageous position in the first place, social combat may only be the finishing blow!
Perhaps. Or perhaps the whole thing was simply an Unspoken plan...
Hunger's too experienced to be so easily scammed! And the fact that you got the ?? from the Magus did make negotiations easier... perhaps such is the privilege of strength!
Well, it's still nice to have an extra pick this time, especially if you guys do end up taking Hunter Trio, but even with either of the other options. 5 picks for Knight Commander means you can get a Defining + one other thing!
True! Though if you get it into such a disadvantageous position in the first place, social combat may only be the finishing blow!
Perhaps. Or perhaps the whole thing was simply an Unspoken plan...
Hunger's too experienced to be so easily scammed! And the fact that you got the ?? from the Magus did make negotiations easier... perhaps such is the privilege of strength!
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
I don't see it as him choosing not to fight her (although that's a possibility, and one I would happily take as long as she can still plink at him with Nullity). Instead, I see it as a part of the kind of enemy he is? Like, the Hunter Trio and the Outriders are groups, and could split up and try and gank our mage, since it's obvious that she's squishier and provides some battle utility herself. One of the group could hold us off, and make their way towards Gisena. Comparatively, even if the Knight Commander had higher total battle strength than the other two options, it is less capable of splitting up and attacking Gisena, since our strength forces him to pay full attention to us lest we strike it down.
Well if we did rob them, I at least hope we stole all their sigals.
Also
Also
Yeah no, we totally robbed/assaulted/murdered them.