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A Simple Transaction I

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Box Lunch said:
Gisena + Talon + Forebear + Accretion pushes back the death clock as far as possible.
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Mmmm, Accretion + Talon is kinda antisynergistic, in my opinion. Accretion will only work on 2-3 places/objects/techniques in the early to mid game, which is incompatible with Talon constantly giving us equipment upgrades. After all, if you're constantly swapping out weapons and armor, none of them have a chance to Accrete a legend.
 
KidFromPallet said:
After much thought, I've chosen Nullity Girl. Not only does she help with Curse mitigation right off the bat, which'll do wonders to increase our vacation time, she's also a social-specced minion that we can rely on so we don't risk proccing Doom of the Tyrant. Also, another person to help us in battle should help with survival chances a little.
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Indeed, it's important to consider Doom of the Tyrant interactions now that you have it!

Aabcehmu said:
Scepter + Intensify eliminates our Scepter's non-combat utility, which likely means that it can no longer be used as a General Buff to our underlying magic system, and in particular either means our Scepter is entirely disjoint from Sealing or else significantly hampers our ability to use Seals out of combat (and thus, hampers our ability to use them to Mitigate).
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It doesn't eliminate noncombat utility, but vastly reduces it.

Fumbles said:
So Talon can make relevant equipment, which means a lot for Ceathlynn. The hope is that between stacking up that equipment, using Seals for support, and of course giving her Progression, we could bootstrap up enough to have her carry Mr. Protagonist through the perilous early game.
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Hm... that's not quite the relevant part of the "early" game. We're really talking about the time before you or anyone else get substantial gains from Progression. Orc Weakling, the fight immediately after, etc.

Rozencrantz said:
A major drawback of Tyrant is that it basically locks us out of any civelized interaction in the early game. This gets us critical resources and power... after that first fight. Synergy with Catherine, since it lets us buff her ASAP.
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It also makes you intimidating for that first fight!

Rozencrantz said:
Accretion get us a guaranteed useful artifact, but Seven Seals is the real winner here. Better initial combat power and long-term scaling are fantastic.
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Accretion has the better scaling of the two options with Forebear's, but they're both pretty good.

Box Lunch said:
On the one hand, Ceathlynn + Talon + King's Scepter + Seven Seals is really solid. Protector with high fighting stats to guard us while we build power through synergies is basically Nameless -lite.
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If you have Scepter, you massively outclass and outscale Catherine in the early game, but she can still be very useful in the mid/lategame.

Box Lunch said:
On the other, there's a very low chance Sword won't win.
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I wouldn't say that, going by the previous votes. Scepter was the option with the individually highest fanwork total, after all!
 
Plan: TL;DR
[ ] The Sword That Ends the World
(GET PRAXIS)
(Don't care what old magic was, GOT PRAXIS)
[ ] Accursed Favor
[ ] Accursed Favor
[ ] Accursed Favor
(Don't care about remittances SHOW ME PRAXIS)
 
Rihaku said:
Hm... that's not quite the relevant part of the "early" game. We're really talking about the time before you or anyone else get substantial gains from Progression. Orc Weakling, the fight immediately after, etc.
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Okay, how do we get safety as fast as possible?

The Seals version of Forebear is the only one that gives us "immediate power"; as such, it must be chosen immediately.

Nullity Sorceress can mitigate the Apocryphal Curse, so that's also a gimme. But since the choice only guarantees the presence; we must actually convince her to do so.

Retinue is perfect for that; guarantee a portion of our power in return for Mitigation. She isn't heartless enough to force us to do it, and infinite progression is obviously enticing; depending on how the Curse works, it may even give her a reason to defend us later. We get a source of Curse Mitigation that gets stronger over time, she gets infinite progression; win-win.

So, we offer her...

[X]A Simple Transaction
[X] The Sword That Ends the World
[X] Seven Seals
[X] Gisena Allria, the Nullity Sorceress
[X] Forebear's Blade
[X] Retinue
 
Aabcehmu said:
Hunger and Forebear's Blade both serve to increase the speed of our Progression, Hunger by way of directly multiplying our XP gain from active combat and the Forebear's Blade by creating a feedback loop between our Progression and our Accretion. The latter, however, seems significantly more consistently and less risky, since it doesn't destroy our ability to train.
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Wait sorry I typed that wrong. I meant why he'd take out Forebear's Blade and keep in Hunger.
Good point that they work well together, though.
 
Can we even make transactional bargains with people now that we're under the effects of Tyrant's doom? Or will we be mad at the tyranny of the social contract?
 
[X] Transcendent Shonen Murderhobo
-[X] The King's Scepter
-[X] Accretion
-[X] Forebear's Blade
-[X] Hunger
-[X] Relinquishment

The King's Scepter provides a cushion of initial power, useful for all the reasons that've been expounded on. Lacking Intensify adds a bit of early-game heat, but we retain non-combat utility. Perhaps the Accursed will have mercy on us and just give us whatever he thinks will fit best, rather than triggering another build vote. Accretion and the Forebear's Blade scale with our accomplishments, ensuring we're never without a relevant weapon. With Hunger in here, we turn into a snowball of murder, ricocheting from fight to fight building our legend and getting ever-stronger as we wade through an ocean of corpses while the world decays around us! Vendetta certainly has an aesthetic to it. The biggest weakness of the build's a lack of mitigation, but you easily could swap Accretion for Seven Seals and try to upgrade Relinquishment.

Which is amazing, a decade is an eyeblink in the eon-spanning journey of a Cursebearer. Better yet, time off stacks. Tactically duck our Curses, trigger this during a period of Apocryphal upheaval or if we've been politically outmaneuvered while wearing Tyrannical blinders. I wonder how instructions from our past, sane self interact with the Doom? It's hard to mitigate, but following through on one's commitments seems like a possible tweak. Having picked Vendetta, at some point we need to actually carry out our promised vengeance, which we can't do while bound to the Geas of Indenture. This gives us a way to do the thing we sacrificed so much for and grants much-needed respite to the Cursebearer. The best option in the long run, far outweighing any companion on offer, even Prolessarch.
 
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Obviously the biggest flaw with Hyperbolic-Time Mecha is the Sword. I'm falling prey to the old quest-player flaw; I'm trying to have my cake and eat it, too. A much more realistic and survivable version follows:
[X] Plan: Starguy and S.T.R.I.P.E.
[X] The King's Scepter
[X] Seven Seals
[X] Ceathlynn "Catherine" of Amarlt
[X] Talon
[X] Retinue

Quite simply, I'm throwing in the towel on the Praxis here. We can have our Vendetta or we can have our Praxis, but not both. (well, we could, but then we'd be dead)
 
LordOfMurder said:
Can we even make transactional bargains with people now that we're under the effects of Tyrant's doom? Or will we be mad at the tyranny of the social contract?
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Rihaku said:
You absolutely refuse to submit to, or even acknowledge the legitimacy of, any rule, custom, law or authority above your own
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Transactional bargains are none of the above things, so I assume so. We won't find trades backed by law or custom valid, but this is neither.
 
LordOfMurder said:
Can we even make transactional bargains with people now that we're under the effects of Tyrant's doom? Or will we be mad at the tyranny of the social contract?
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Reposting the exact words, it looks like a fundamental inability to take orders.

You absolutely refuse to submit to, or even acknowledge the legitimacy of, any rule, custom, law or authority above your own, unless that authority is at least as powerful as a specific instruction from the Accursed himself. Your ability to operate within the context of any organization you are not unequivocally in charge of is utterly crippled. Diplomacy is a laughable dream.

Enemies that are aware of this can provoke you via reverse psychology, though this can only cause you to attack them - you aren't compelled to do the opposite of whatever they order. This Curse comes pre-mitigated in that it does not affect the Accursed, but is very difficult to mitigate further.

It's inadvisable to take this alongside any Brand effect if you intend to ever work with others. Example:

You request a subordinate do something for you -> They refuse until you collect 20 bear pelts -> You refuse to acknowledge the Brand's legitimacy, as it is not greater than the Accursed -> You are unable to ever get your 'subordinate' to do anything
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Some other synergies of note:

*Most Scepter builds have great synergies with Hunger! You're good at fighting, so exploit it to get better scaling!
*For example, Scepter Accretion + Hunger + Forebear's Blade + Intensify gives an incredible amount of scaling. Intensify gets you the highest starting point, then you have a multiplicative scaling factor (Hunger) on top of a geometrically compounding one! Now that's synergy.
*Scepter Seals + Hunger + Forebear's Blade + Talon does not scale in raw power quite as hard, but offers a great amount of utility (Seals + Talon = resources to seal and recombine, plus the utility of the equipment itself) alongside your growth. Or take Gisena to get Curse Mitigation and social utility.

*Hunger + Talon = ultimate blood knight, get multiplied xp and drops from killing enemies!
*Forebear's Blade + Seals + Ceathlynn = You can try to awaken Ceathlynn's Soul Evocation!
*Seals + Forebear's Blade + Prolessarch = Rapidly improve the esoteric foundation of your Seals rather than their raw power!
 
BrainInAJar said:
Okay, how do we get safety as fast as possible?

The Seals version of Forebear is the only one that gives us "immediate power"; as such, it must be chosen immediately.

Nullity Sorceress can mitigate the Apocryphal Curse, so that's also a gimme. But since the choice only guarantees the presence; we must actually convince her to do so.

Retinue is perfect for that; guarantee a portion of our power in return for Mitigation. She isn't heartless enough to force us to do it, and infinite progression is obviously enticing; depending on how the Curse works, it may even give her a reason to defend us later. We get a source of Curse Mitigation that gets stronger over time, she gets infinite progression; win-win.

So, we offer her...
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[X] A Simple Transaction
[X] The Sword That Ends the World
[X] Seven Seals
[X] Gisena Allria, the Nullity Sorceress
[X] Forebear's Blade
[X] Retinue

I like this plan.
 
[X] Max Praxis and the Curse Mitigation
[X] The Sword That Ends the World
[X] Seven Seals
[X] Gisena Allria, the Nullity Sorceress
[X] Retinue
[X] Intensify

Since naming your plan is what the cool kids are doing.
 
It is quite annoying to have everyone revote for what is technically the same option thrice now, and once again have a combinatorial hell the would greatly benefit from consolidation. But even if you just have a single option you want, I recommend you vote for it! You should be able to choose want you want to see in the quest, be it a specific character, power, or combination of such. Don't let your voice be wasted!

Fumbles said:
Quite simply, I'm throwing in the towel on the Praxis here. We can have our Vendetta or we can have our Praxis, but not both. (well, we could, but then we'd be dead)
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But without the Praxis, why are we even here? Don't lose hope, especially at a such a critical juncture! The Sword has survived two consolidations so far, we just need one more! It's too early to lose hope.
 
A part of me is screaming to vote for the optimal start point that maximizes growth and survivability.

And another is screaming to get the Praxis because that is one of the main reasons I am interested in this quest right now.

Praxis would have been best with Freedom, but now that is of the table.

I'll probably wait until I vote properly.
 
BrainInAJar said:
It is quite annoying to have everyone revote for what is technically the same option thrice now, and once again have a combinatorial hell the would greatly benefit from consolidation. But even if you just have a single option you want, I recommend you vote for it! You should be able to choose want you want to see in the quest, be it a specific character, power, or combination of such. Don't let your voice be wasted!
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100% agree


BrainInAJar said:
But without the Praxis, why are we even here? Don't lose hope, especially at a such a critical juncture! The Sword has survived two consolidations so far, we just need one more! It's too early to lose hope.
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about 20% agree

I've been slowly losing interest in questing over the last year or so. Mostly just natural life, I have stuff to do and would rather spend my time elsewhere. But some of the cause is more sedately-paced and tame quests, and less rapid exciting stuff like good old /tg/ stuff, or Rihakuquests. I'm very very excited to get a last hurrah here before the apocalypse, (facetious, plz no therapy pms) and I don't want to waste it dying round 1. I'm not a clever quester generally and so I do try to argue in favor of plans which I think can survive without any miracles or genius ploys. Sometimes they happen, like Arthur and the big dragon, and sometimes they don't, like with Dr. Apocalypse. I still feel the sting of that last one, and so I'm not going to commit to a risky opening build.

Particularly when Rihaku has literally told us not to take that combo.
 
Orm Embar said:
Which is amazing, a decade is an eyeblink in the eon-spanning journey of a Cursebearer. Better yet, time off stacks. Tactically duck our Curses, trigger this during a period of Apocryphal upheaval or if we've been politically outmaneuvered while wearing Tyrannical blinders.
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Relinquishment has some interesting uses. Activate it before your confrontation with the Apocryphal-granted nemesis and ensure they don't get a helping hand from the Curse, use it in conjunction with super speed + dimensional travel to get large amounts of prep done during the week, prove to the peoples of the galaxy that you can compromise, it's just that your opponents' proposals are usually too stupid for you to yield, etc.

Fumbles said:
Baller. Would you consider Rihaku's Talon+Hunger? It seems fun to go full KEEP WHAT YOU KILL with Accretion to spice it up.
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Another convenient feature of Talon? Corpse removal! Never go through the distressing logistics of hiding a body while wounded and tired again!

BrainInAJar said:
It is quite annoying to have everyone revote for what is technically the same option thrice now, and once again have a combinatorial hell the would greatly benefit from consolidation.
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It's only a re-vote in your eyes because your favored option survived! Just think about all the Mask voters! Nearly half the thread wouldn't have been able to give input into this critical decision...
 
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