- Location
- Omniverse #1345
I know. I was hoping to poke it into indecisiveness
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Not really? Idea behind getting Sated Mitigation had nothing with going around and hunting stuff; rather, the assumption was that Apocrypha will end up sending us relevant opponents here and there and that triggering Sated at least once in eight months or so will be worth it. Likewise, Hunt doesn't specifically want to hunt Sated targets, as it wants to compound power upon power.
Which is a nice way to say that you have no plan and that you are just winging it.
Meanwhile:
>use monetary resources we currently have laying around doing nothing to get short term power in form of mercs/gear
>due to increased short term power we can afford to scale by either saving Arete and using picks to compensate in meanwhile or spending Arete on Verse/mage option Rihaku is currently advertising
>congrats, progression
Also, we do have that -10% on Hunger procs from Sated and -5% on everything due to Chillness of the Grave too.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
So... your "plan" amounts to "we have some money"?
We don't actually have very much increased short-term power. We are much harder to kill, but that is about it. And I doubt we're going to get something like Ruinous Valor in a Civ. Our build is basically entirely reliant on fighting opponents. Which is exactly what you are avoiding. Hence why we aren't likely to actually gain very much from it. We have money, or things worth money anyway, but nothing we actually need to buy.
It's not all about build minmaxing considerations, by the way. As we've learned in these quests, every little vote is both influenced by previous decisions and influences future ones - an obvious thing to state, but quite another to take into account when making these choices.
This doesn't mean that any of them are out of character, as Hunger has shown quite a wide palette of character traits so far, but they do steer Hunger in certain directions. Is it a more solitary and self-reliant life he prefers, or does he desire companionship? Does feeling the edge of Apocrypha at his throat constantly make him decide to confront it directly instead of trying to evade or ignore it? Does he believe that slowing down his pace will pay off in the future, or that greater speed can overtake his Curses?
We've seen Hunger give his all for no discernible reason during the fishing events, not because he's an idiot, but because he's a Hero. Heroic feats are written in his nature and magic, worn down and reduced to a mere shadow though he might be. In things great and small a Hero is exceptional.
We've also seen Hunger prevail over a stronger opponent through wit and treachery, having learned those necessary lessons from the Tyrant, however unwillingly. Mere strength wouldn't let him defeat his foes, so he turned to other means, discarding useless notions of fairness in favor of things that work. He is eminently practical and driven, demanding everything from himself yet also knowing that rest is a necessary part of achieving one's goals - though he struggles with that lesson at times in the face of his desperate circumstances.
We've seen him extend his trust again after being betrayed be the people he was trying to save, making the effort to connect to his companions and risking much to protect them. He went so far as to go out and hunt while extremely injured and exhausted to save Letrizia from pain. Doubtlessly there were also other, more practical considerations at work, but companionship is nonetheless something he values quite highly.
So choosing one of these options implies some things about our Hero. Both that he considers them the optimal course of actions in the moment, of course, but also that he's inclined to choose them. If the Social Hunger goes towards Civilization, that's where his tendencies lie, in building social connections and maneuvering people around so that they help him accomplish what he wants. A Hunting Hunger is of the opinion that acquiring personal power on his own is more advantageous. And Adventuring Hunger thinks that cutting a tail off by pieces just prolongs the pain and that taking a single great risk for the greatest rewards is the way to go.
When choosing, think about what kind of character you want to create and read about, lest you find yourself complaining that we totally didn't deserve that lazy ungrateful bastard and that he should just stick to training whatthefuckiswrongwithhim
...Hypothetically speaking.
This doesn't mean that any of them are out of character, as Hunger has shown quite a wide palette of character traits so far, but they do steer Hunger in certain directions. Is it a more solitary and self-reliant life he prefers, or does he desire companionship? Does feeling the edge of Apocrypha at his throat constantly make him decide to confront it directly instead of trying to evade or ignore it? Does he believe that slowing down his pace will pay off in the future, or that greater speed can overtake his Curses?
We've seen Hunger give his all for no discernible reason during the fishing events, not because he's an idiot, but because he's a Hero. Heroic feats are written in his nature and magic, worn down and reduced to a mere shadow though he might be. In things great and small a Hero is exceptional.
We've also seen Hunger prevail over a stronger opponent through wit and treachery, having learned those necessary lessons from the Tyrant, however unwillingly. Mere strength wouldn't let him defeat his foes, so he turned to other means, discarding useless notions of fairness in favor of things that work. He is eminently practical and driven, demanding everything from himself yet also knowing that rest is a necessary part of achieving one's goals - though he struggles with that lesson at times in the face of his desperate circumstances.
We've seen him extend his trust again after being betrayed be the people he was trying to save, making the effort to connect to his companions and risking much to protect them. He went so far as to go out and hunt while extremely injured and exhausted to save Letrizia from pain. Doubtlessly there were also other, more practical considerations at work, but companionship is nonetheless something he values quite highly.
So choosing one of these options implies some things about our Hero. Both that he considers them the optimal course of actions in the moment, of course, but also that he's inclined to choose them. If the Social Hunger goes towards Civilization, that's where his tendencies lie, in building social connections and maneuvering people around so that they help him accomplish what he wants. A Hunting Hunger is of the opinion that acquiring personal power on his own is more advantageous. And Adventuring Hunger thinks that cutting a tail off by pieces just prolongs the pain and that taking a single great risk for the greatest rewards is the way to go.
When choosing, think about what kind of character you want to create and read about, lest you find yourself complaining that we totally didn't deserve that lazy ungrateful bastard and that he should just stick to training whatthefuckiswrongwithhim
...Hypothetically speaking.
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That being said, it is not likely that Hunger is going to jump from ruling nothing to ruling the entirety of the Sphere. Being more secure in his rule of the already secured parts goes a long way towards making further conquest more likely to be successful. Very little hamstrings territorial expansion more than having to head back and re-conquer a place a second or third time due to rebellions or counterattacks.
- Location
- Pindorama
Guh, I hate the Make for Civilization started winning due to dumb fearmongering. The option that explicitly states that has a High Reward for risks is actually shit, sure. The mediocre option will actually also give the benefits of Hunt by doing dumb sidequests, why not? Clearly, despite having Evening Sky, Fell-Handed Stroke and Second Stage, we actually suck at combat, that makes sense.
Meanwhile, finding stuff to kill is not hard. We can get power by actually getting power, and that helps us to get more power later and also saves our money. Why this fucking gamble that Civ will be more rewarding than Hunt when the option explicitly calls otherwise?
Incredible plan that relies on Civilization having exactly what we need, how amazing! Realize that the option explicitly calls out moderate rewards, and temper your expectations accordingly.
Meanwhile, finding stuff to kill is not hard. We can get power by actually getting power, and that helps us to get more power later and also saves our money. Why this fucking gamble that Civ will be more rewarding than Hunt when the option explicitly calls otherwise?
Exactly. Instead of having big ass part of our resources sitting around doing fuck all, we will use them in specific manner that will improve our build.
My actual plan has multiple steps and explains how we use our abilities to accomplish our goals, but everything longer than two lines gets ignored so I don't bother. You can go back to read it if you are interested.
Well, yes, which is why we go and buy some mercs instead of fighting beasts.
Again, Hunger procs on things that are not combat and we can fight in civs too(mercenary work, hunting monsters, clearing dungeons etc.). Except we don't need to cripple ourselves by panic spending and stuff.
Actually, people vote for Civ because there is a ton to get there. I am the only one really shitting of Hunt.
Still waiting for yours bud.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
And... why are you assuming we'll find that at the local civilizations? We've been explicitly told we can expect moderate rewards. From my point of view that means we are likely to find basically nothing we want. You are basically just shoving your idea for what you want on the civilization option with no regard for how likely it is to actually be found there.
I expect we'll end the time with 2 picks and nothing interesting to show for it.
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- Location
- Rivendell
No, it literally says it boosts active conflict, and weakens training and study.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Rihaku has also said here(A Simple Transaction I Original):
For an example in our recent past, rush training on Seven Seals to heal Letrizia if we had that as an option back then, sounds like the kind of scenario that would enable us to get the benefits of Hunger.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Your tone predisposes me to vote for whatever you don't want.
Mercenaries and equipment are things that civilization is likely to have in some form. Because civilization doesn't survive in a world like this without some decent kit to defend itself with.
It may well not provide greater boosts than other options, but it will not provide no boosts.
I do not believe this is accurate. Per the ring's description:
This does not limit its benefits to fighting opponents. And while the more recent upgrades have been more combat focused, several more mental and social benefits have been taken, even if they've seen less use.
I do not believe this is an accurate characterization of the benefits of civilization. The primary difference is that hunt has a much stronger chance of us getting deleterious side effects, or nothing. That is what higher risk means. There is a chance of getting more, but there is also a chance of getting much much less, or getting additional complications that require time and effort not spend getting benefits to overcome.
Moderate is not zero. Perhaps you should rephrase that as 'potentially less desirable rewards'?
Some people may prefer to take smaller gambles. Variable risk means we have no way of knowing how risky hunting will be. It could be a cakewalk of a hunt with tiny rewards, it could be a titanic struggle in which Hunger barely overcomes some mythic beast and receives equally mythic rewards. Or if could be merely challenging, and luck turns against Hunger, and even after rewards Hunger et all becomes weaker than at the start.
Unquantified risk is chancy like that. Death probably isn't on the table, but nothing Rihaku has said can completely rule it out, either. More likely a companion than Hunger, admittedly.
- Location
- Rivendell
Can we even be sure we'll have the resources to acquire mercs/equipment? We didn't take the trade option earlier, so all we have for resources is a pile of fish meat/scales that we don't really know the value of relative to any mercs/equipment. Additionally, we have no knowledge of how long it will take to find civilization, and if our pile of unrefrigerated fish meat/scales will have rotted by the time we get there. On the other hand, we already know we can get pretty good power boosts from just eating the fish, so we might not even want to trade it away.
Well, that's good to know. Still don't think we'll be likely to be in the kind of situation where we benefit from Hunger in Civ, compared to the other two options.
I'm not enamored with the idea of heading into town, but we have a pearl the size of a melon with possibly-magical properties to sell. We should be able to acquire equipment at minimum.
Because I read what options do:
Likewise, my plan touches upon on ways to generate additional income with our unique abilities - Zea's knowledge of advanced technology, Gisena's own technological acumen and ability to nullify magic and our combat prowess and, perhaps, ability to phase/kills spirits.
Conflict=/=Combat
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Generously speaking, we put 1.5 picks and 3.5 Arete towards social options, even assuming Thick as Thieves and Evening Sky are half social and half other (which they really aren't). The rest have all been +combat in one form or the other, so excuse me if I'm skeptical.
The Decimator's Mitigation was picked for a number of reasons, some of which included "not killing our friends" and "not causing more damage than every megacorp in the world combined". And our Curse Mitigation is absolutely as relevant as two power votes considering their relative impact. Huntress' Moon changes our priorities radically compared to a few extra pluses distributed here and there.
God damn it, now I'm really torn.
Rihaku
The Internet
VENDOR: *looks at pearl through jeweler's loupe*
VENDOR: So yeah, this thing is highly radioactive, that's why it's glowing.
VENDOR: You might wanna get that checked out.
Everyone knows radiation gives you superpowers, so that just makes it more expensive.
Rihaku
The Internet
Btw, one aspect of Philosopher's Wreath that I think has been underappreciated is its stat boosts! Sure, it doesn't offer unbounded progression of a guaranteed high-tier magic system like Azure Moon, but you get +Int, +Wis, and +Cha out of it! That's basically +Competence, without even any extra Heartlessness! And if you search for a great magic system, it's basically a better Azure Moon at the cost of only one extra pick!
I will not countenance this betrayal of everything the Forebear stands for! How are we supposed to be hard men making hard choices if we take all these milk-drinker options?!
Don't I know it.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
the choices are easy once you're heartless!
- Location
- Pindorama
Hunt has a high reward to risk ration. We get more out than what we risk. Which is better than something that can have Medium Risk to Moderate reward. So even we take the exact same risks chance o Hunt than on CIv, our rewards would be greater. That's why I don't understand the statement that Hunt is a shit option.
Thanks for convincing me to vote for Temple, by the way.
[x] Temple of the False Moon
[X] +1 pick during next Experience spend