Remove ads

A Simple Transaction I

Reader mode
Rihaku said:
Don't forget, it does somewhat nerf your growth rate in the meantime! Perhaps not terribly relevant if you don't use it often, but in the long run it all adds up...

Somewhat like in a clicker game, where a 2x can feel like nothing on paper, but then you realize that to hit the true endgame numbers you need every. single. multiplier!

Luckily Verschlengorge may have its own means of mitigation to offer you!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Preserving our growth rate is cold comfort if we drain the Human Sphere into ash. Getting 50% Direct mitigation just seems unfeasible, and Direct mitigation now makes other forms of mitigation more expensive.

I think for me what the analysis proves is that Direct mitigation isn't enough; we either need to hunt proactively with Moon and hopefully Conclusion, or not even mitigate Decimator this vote and hope Gorgey has something good for us; Otherwise it's back to hunting.
 
The descriptions about Decimation's effects are somewhat excessive. Yes, we might drain things dry if we stay in the same place for a long time, especially without proper mitigation, but the cosmos and Astral plane are big and populated places. Plus we were told Decimation has a lot of Mitigation options for a Curse.

Rihaku said:
The specification needed to qualify as a valid Hunger Sated target is far more narrow than just "mini-boss!" Without Huntress Moon you have no idea of when you'll encounter a Hunger Sated target again. Even with Huntress Moon it's possible it could be very infrequent.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, now I'm even more turned off Hunter's Moon. I thought with it we could rely on most Apocryphal enemies being valid targets, but it sounds like they'll be rare even then.
 
It's okay if it's "rare". One in seven months still beats Direct mitigation. On top of allowing us to go to space/desolated planets, use temporal acceleration without Decimator downsides etc.

Remember, this is just upgrade to Hunger kills - before, enemy we killed would just proc Hunger, now they have chance of stopping Decimator for a month too.
 
Unelemental said:
The descriptions about Decimation's effects are somewhat excessive. Yes, we might drain things dry if we stay in the same place for a long time, especially without proper mitigation, but the cosmos and Astral plane are big and populated places. Plus we were told Decimation has a lot of Mitigation options for a Curse.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes, I wrote a whole post about them. But we need to actually take those options or that will be the result, and when evaluating how significant they are you need to look at how much you're actually delaying the devastating effects of reducing the lifespan of every living thing in range by too much.

It's true that we could avoid destroying our kingdom by never going to it, and protect our companions by leaving them behind. This will make it rather hard to complete our quest though.
 
Skelm said:
Yes, I wrote a whole post about them. But we need to actually take those options or that will be the result, and when evaluating how significant they are you need to look at how much you're actually delaying the devastating effects of reducing the lifespan of every living thing in range by too much.

It's true that we could avoid destroying our kingdom by never going to it, and protect our companions by leaving them behind. This will make it rather hard to complete our quest though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We don't have to never visit them, just do it when they're getting uppity and work remotely the rest of the time. :p
And Mitigating Decimation by excluding certain individuals is a better bet than trying to find enemies that could satisfy Hunger with any sort of regularity, even with Hunter's Moon.

Wolfy said:
It's okay if it's "rare". One in seven months still beats Direct mitigation. On top of allowing us to go to space/desolated planets, use temporal acceleration without Decimator downsides etc.

Remember, this is just upgrade to Hunger kills - before, enemy we killed would just proc Hunger, now they have chance of stopping Decimator for a month too.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We're not just comparing Moon to Direct Mitigation, but also need to take the 40% reduction to most other Mitigation types into account.

Though I suppose if Versch offers an improvement to Hunter's Moon - not an unlikely scenario - and we simply focus on this type of Mitigation exclusively, it doesn't look so bad.
 
Unelemental said:
We're not just comparing Moon to Direct Mitigation, but also need to take the 40% reduction to most other Mitigation types into account.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes, and? Remember, Direct Mitigation decays in value as we grow stronger, while Hunter will always give us a month regardless of our power. Additionally, value of one month grows greatly as we grow stronger and become capable of doing more in that time. Hunter allows you to spend your mitigation on Apocrypha and Tyrant and getting that companion etc.

Plus additional benefits of complete lack of Decimator Direct simply can't replicate.
 
Unelemental said:
And Mitigating Decimation by excluding certain individuals is a better bet than trying to find enemies that could satisfy Hunger with any sort of regularity, even with Hunter's Moon.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We only need one every 2 years once we take Conclusion. That really shouldn't be an issue if we've "dramatically" increased their spawn rate.
Unelemental said:
We're not just comparing Moon to Direct Mitigation, but also need to take the 40% reduction to most other Mitigation types into account.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
When are you expecting to get to take those other Mitigations? They take so much power that we would never get them within the scope of this world. If we can mitigate it a satisfactory amount in this world we don't really need anything more, and if we can't then we're pretty screwed right now.
Wolfy said:
while Hunter will always give us a month regardless of our power
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And 2 years with just a 7 Arete expenditure!
 
Like, Direct mitigation now, with the available information is even more of a pre-committal than Huntress' Moon. At least that gives us path to not killing everyone around us.
Unelemental said:
And Mitigating Decimation by excluding certain individuals is a better bet than trying to find enemies that could satisfy Hunger with any sort of regularity, even with Hunter's Moon.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
How do you know that? We were offered Sated, Conclusion and Moon, and yet nothing to exclude our companions so far. I'd say improvements to Hunting would be a safer bet.
 
Wolfy said:
Yes, and? Remember, Direct Mitigation decays in value as we grow stronger, while Hunter will always give us a month regardless of our power. Additionally, value of one month grows greatly as we grow stronger and become capable of doing more in that time. Hunter allows you to spend your mitigation on Apocrypha and Tyrant and getting that companion etc.

Plus additional benefits of complete lack of Decimator Direct simply can't replicate.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It simply decays in another way - valid targets are just too rare to be a reliable means of Mitigation as things stand. Maybe I'd agree if it was only Direct vs Moon, but we have lots of other option we haven't begun to explore yet.

Skelm said:
We only need one every 2 years once we take Conclusion. That really shouldn't be an issue if we've "dramatically" increased their spawn rate.

When are you expecting to get to take those other Mitigations? They take so much power that we would never get them within the scope of this world. If we can mitigate it a satisfactory amount in this world we don't really need anything more, and if we can't then we're pretty screwed right now.

And 2 years with just a 7 Arete expenditure!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm expecting to take them when we get a good look at Versch's offer. If we don't like them, we can revisit Hunter's Moon, but just deciding that this is for the best without looking at other possibilities isn't for me.

BrainInAJar said:
Like, Direct mitigation now, with the available information is even more of a pre-committal than Huntress' Moon. At least that gives us path to not killing everyone around us.

How do you know that? We were offered Sated, Conclusion and Moon, and yet nothing to exclude our companions so far. I'd say improvements to Hunting would be a safer bet.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm getting it from this type Mitigation being offered for Geas and Decimation being described as the Curse with some of the most types of Mitigations. It's not a sure thing, but we're talking Curses here, so it's good enough for me.

And I don't want to precommit to anything at all here, hence why I'm not choosing any Decimation Mitigations at this point.
 
Unelemental said:
It simply decays in another way - valid targets are just too rare to be a reliable means of Mitigation as things stand. Maybe I'd agree if it was only Direct vs Moon, but we have lots of other option we haven't begun to explore yet.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That would imply that there will be less peer opponents capable of challenging us, which I just don't see as being the case, especially with Astral Realm shitting out Kaijus en masse.
 
Wolfy said:
That would imply that there will be less peer opponents capable of challenging us, which I just don't see as being the case, especially with Astral Realm shitting out Kaijus en masse.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If it was just about power (which was also my first assumption about Moon), Rihaku wouldn't say they're rare. There are other factors at work.
 
Unelemental said:
If it was just about power (which was also my first assumption about Moon), Rihaku wouldn't say they're rare. There are other factors at work.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"Decay" implies reduced value over time, which would imply lesser number of targets as time goes on.

As for "rare", define what rare means. Like, define what you expect for default rate of Sated to be vs Hunter rate of Sated. Because anything above going from one in twelve months to one in seven months is a net gain.


That aside, I am slowly arguing myself into Tribulation. Like, if we want to do something not time sensitive, doing it after proc is super nice. But yeah, Direct mitigation sounds better there.
 
Wolfy said:
"Decay" implies reduced value over time, which would imply lesser number of targets as time goes on.

As for "rare", define what rare means. Like, define what you expect for default rate of Sated to be vs Hunter rate of Sated. Because anything above going from one in twelve months to one in seven months is a net gain.


That aside, I am slowly arguing myself into Tribulation. Like, if we want to do something not time sensitive, doing it after proc is super nice. But yeah, Direct mitigation sounds better there.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Wait, I might have missed something, but were we told we'd get Sated once a year or something? Because for all I know we'd be getting it once a decade or once a century, with Moon improving that significantly - but significant improvements of a minuscule chance still don't sound that attractive to me when I don't know the alternatives.
 
Unelemental said:
Wait, I might have missed something, but were we told we'd get Sated once a year or something? Because for all I know we'd be getting it once a decade or once a century, with Moon improving that significantly - but significant improvements of a minuscule chance still don't sound that attractive to me when I don't know the alternatives.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We haven't been told anything, I am asking you to define what this "rare" you keep on mentioning actually means. How much you expect default rate to be vs how much you expect Hunter rate to be.
 
Wolfy said:
We haven't been told anything, I am asking you to define what this "rare" you keep on mentioning actually means. How much you expect default rate to be vs how much you expect Hunter rate to be.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
My worst estimates are as I told them in the post you quoted - that it is a somewhat unique occurrence without Hunter's Moon and valid targets numbering once in a few years or even once a decade with it.
I'd be more willing to improve those estimates if choosing Moon here didn't basically push us into pursuing it as a sole Mitigation means for a Curse whose 'best' feature is having many such options, we didn't have another candidate for Mitigating it right next to us, and if it was a unique option we aren't likely to get again.
 
Direct mitigation is also a commitment, though. We won't be able to select any mitigation options for Decimation for a long, long time.
 
Remove ads
A Hero's Panoply [Artifacts Summary]
  • Threadmarks
    • I. The Forebear's Blade

    Tenfold strength and speed, and the resilience to withstand such exertions
    Infuses all attacks made by the bearer with the power of Ruin
    The power of Ruin ravages and destroys without leaving trace, penetrating - at least partially - almost all defenses
    Grows steadily in power and refinement alongside its wielder (abstracted as an extra Experience multiplier)

    [Thick as Thieves] II - ++Intelligence, ++Charisma, ++Heartlessness
    [Fell-Handed Stroke] - A devastating blow of unutterable magnificence from which no recovery is possible. A powerful, but draining strike that inflicts cursed wounds from which spirit and will leak as freely as blood. Resists healing.

    Potential Advancements

    [Iron Curtain] - 7 Arete. The Forebear could not be dissuaded, nor could he be stopped. To dissent was folly, to resist was death. The laws of the Forebear were as natural law, and just as inevitable. When active, ++Willpower, +++Protection, ++Constitution, Ignore Wounds, Deflect Exotic Attacks. Become Tired afterwards.

    [Once And Future] I - 25 Arete. Channel a fraction of the Forebear's true might, and glimpse a small fraction of his true history. +1 Astral Rank, applied externally after all other factors. Does not raise the difficulty of improving Rank. +2 Astral Rank in matters military.

    II. Hunger

    Imparts noticeable spiritual vigor and a thirst for life's pleasures
    Cripples non-combat, non-conflict advancement, but dectuples progression from any conflict with serious stakes

    [Ring of Power] - Asserts bearer's will upon the world, bending it to his designs.

    [Might's Repose] - Only grow stronger, more glorious and more capable with age, so long as bearer sleeps 9+ hours per day. Life- and healthspan can be indefinitely extended in theory. Modest bonus to physical actions, minor bonus to mental actions when well-rested. Immune to hostile sleep / tiredness effects.

    Potential Advancements

    [Ring of Blood] - 2 Arete. Wielder fully recovers health with [Might's Repose], can use [Ring of Power] to restore health, though inefficiently.

    [Ruling Ring] - 25 Arete. There can only be one Ruling Ring. Enormously increases the strength, range, and control of the [Ring of Power] effect. ++All Stats, ++Progression.

    III. Evening Sky

    Deflects physical attacks within its coverage less powerful than an atom bomb
    Imparts 75% resistance to almost all other forms of damage
    Imparts 75-90% resistance to most inimical status conditions
    Grants breathtaking majesty of the evening sky [++Charisma]

    -Physical attacks stronger than an atom bomb no longer count as "mundane force" - capable of blotting out the sky. Magical attacks reduce this protection proportional to the strength of their magic.
    -The attack of a Rank 2 being bearing signature weaponry is slightly magical.

    Potential Advancements

    [Opalescence] - The soft light of evening before which all attacks falter. Improves defensive parameters. +Protection.

    [Winter Moon] - 2 Arete. The cold bright orb which presides above all nocturnal wisdom. Gain access to the wearer's [Soul Evocation], though no especial talent is guaranteed.

    [Pillars of Creation] - 25 Arete. At the end of each lunar month, wearer and companions may steal away to the realm of Evening, during which no time passes in the mortal world. Divine opulence and every conceivable luxury await the fortunate interlopers, restoring wholeness of mind, body, and spirit.

    The realm of Evening responds to the desires of the wearer and can be shaped to induce a variety of effects at nigh-deific scale - worthy enemies, fields of unique reagents, anagathic peaches, arms and armor of myth. Only one rule is absolute: that each stay lasts seven days, no more and no less. Items typically cannot be carried out, though the effects of items consumed within the realm remain after departing it.

    All Curses save the Geas of Indenture are only at one-third severity within the realm, though this does not stack with other forms of mitigation, nor impede their function outside.

    ---

    You are free to discuss / plan for Potential Advancements and speculate on your own, but do not vote for them as they are not being offered at present.
     
  • Threadmarks
    • Rihaku said:
    [Winter Moon] - 2 Arete. The cold bright orb which presides above all nocturnal wisdom. Gain access to the wearer's [Soul Evocation], though no especial talent is guaranteed.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Hmm, it says we aren't guaranteed great talent if this is chosen. Are there ways to improve these chances? Be it through additional Arete investiture or greater Rank or something else. While I'm sure we'll make do no matter what we get, I'd prefer something that synergizes well with our build or even Mitigates Curses like Seven Seals.
     
    Rihaku said:
    [Once And Future] I
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Interesting that this is I.
    Rihaku said:
    [Winter Moon] - 2 Arete. The cold bright orb which presides above all nocturnal wisdom. Gain access to the wearer's [Soul Evocation], though no especial talent is guaranteed.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    This is what I would pick. Surprisingly most of these don't call to me with the same fervor as usual. Can you let other's wear the Evening's Cloak? Is Hero's soul evocation the same as it was down the other path?
     
    Unelemental said:
    Hmm, it says we aren't guaranteed great talent if this is chosen. Are there ways to improve these chances? Be it through additional Arete investiture or greater Rank or something else. While I'm sure we'll make do no matter what we get, I'd prefer something that synergizes well with our build or even Mitigates Curses like Seven Seals.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    It appears to depend upon us. The Hero's soul. So probably not much of anything that can be done to improve our chances here.
     
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top