Remove ads

A Simple Transaction I

Reader mode
TooSlow said:
I wonder what would happen if we shaped our Pressure into a sigil of the arcanist?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Conjured Blade said:
Pressure is like Gravity. Exerted by our Spirit in proportion to our Rank, with some potential for manipulation via our will and if Letrezia is helping, Sharpbright. I think it's a serious stretch to consider that a viable medium for writing runes.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For more theorycrafting, I realized that Gisena's Eyes are normally Blue. They go Green with Flecks of Blue and Gold per Lady of the Lake. Those blue flecks could be Gisena's natural Eye color. If Seram is to be believed Findross is colored Gold. Implications unclear. Like what Elixirdross actually looks like? It also leads to the potential hypothesis that True Quintessence is ISH Elevated Findross, that the blue accompanying the golden runes is the blue of the wake of Hunger's Sword and the blue of the Praxis.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Maybe instead of Pressure, use Edeldross. It did make Total Eclipse cheaper, iirc.
 
Shard said:
Maybe instead of Pressure, use Edeldross. It did make Total Eclipse cheaper, iirc.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I agree. Specific patterns of Edeldross discoverable by experimenting with the help of Gisena's Magesight to temporarily emulate 10 percent of valid Sorcerous Graces? Why temporary? Why did they need material structure/upkeep before we got upgraded Silver of Evening?

Hypothesis: The Edeldross Patterns from the blurb are Arcanist Runes that work when written in Edeldross. The upkeep was maintaining the Rune.
 
Judging by the descriptions when we acquired Silver of Evening, the advancement mainly gathered our diffused Edeldross in a dense star, after which we acquired the ability to sustain Graces permanently. Sounds like inducing a singularity to me, perhaps something similar to findross Coalescences? There's probably more to it, since Silver only got this property after Azure fiddled with it some, but there's likely a certain Edeldross/findross density requirement for keeping Graces permanently sustained.
 
Conjured Blade said:
Hypothesis: The Edeldross Patterns from the blurb are Arcanist Runes that work when written in Edeldross. The upkeep was maintaining the Rune.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yeah that makes sense. A grace is an Arcanist rune (or maybe a lot of runes) written using Findross. An Edeldross grace is an Arcanist rune written using Edeldross. Edeldross is less suitable than Findross but it can still support some stuff.
 
Last edited:
Unelemental said:
Judging by the descriptions when we acquired Silver of Evening, the advancement mainly gathered our diffused Edeldross in a dense star, after which we acquired the ability to sustain Graces permanently. Sounds like inducing a singularity to me, perhaps something similar to findross Coalescences? There's probably more to it, since Silver only got this property after Azure fiddled with it some, but there's likely a certain Edeldross/findross density requirement for keeping Graces permanently sustained.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

What precisely Azure did metaphysically speaking is sticking in my craw too.

The question here is the overlap between Silver of Evening and Gisena Infusing Findross with her Spirit to become a High Sorceress. We integrated Edeldross with the Evening Sky, which was metaphysically us when get got Silver of Evening.

Silver of Evening Original
[ ] Evening Sky: Silver of Evening - 25 Arete (1 pick)

Inset in the crown of evening is a star of purest edeldross; its wearer becomes swift as nightfall after the sun's passing, beautiful as the naked stars, and sacred as midnight itself. For all spheres of magic in Evening reside: its wearer their master, and champion besides.

Double the Magnitude of present and future Edeldross enhancements.
+100% to the value of AGI and Charisma +s
+1 Defensive Rank
Once per sidereal month, perfectly defeat any one hostile effect to which the wearer would otherwise be subject. Applied against a Curse, grants two stages of mitigation for one day and one night. May apply even to the Doom of the Tyrant.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Double the Magnitude of present and future Edeldross enhancements? If the Edeldross is in our spirit and our body at the same time would that double the returns?
+100% to the value of AGI and Charisma +s = I have no idea but I guess this is part of the Evening Sky's thematics?
+1 Defensive Rank = This one is curious. Gisena infused Findross into her Spirit and became stronger. Rank is greatness of spirit. Findross perfects like Edeldross does. Side effect of Spiritual Edeldross infusion?

Letrezia from A Solitary Moon:
"Actually," Letrizia chimed in, eager to contribute on matters related to her hobby, "While Miss Gisena may not be able to use her Rank proactively, as a magically potent being it's likely she still has one! A sort of 'defensive Rank' that protects her to an extent from hostile actions by those with Pressure. Most magical beings have some form of astral shadow, and great magicians will have a stronger one, though not to the extent of one who actively develops their Rank."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

+Perfect Defense = Silver of Evening is a Jewel of significant metaphysical power. Well Sorcery gives people signs when they put their wealth down the well. So what if the perfect defense is a proto-empyrean sign?

Silver of Evening Upgraded:

[ ] Star of Grace - A jewel of pure edeldross, representing grace unasked for and undeserved. When all else had failed, when all hope had died, when all others had turned their backs, the Hunger Ring took up his sword and cut a path. Few are the debts between Rings and fewer still their moments of sentimentality. But perhaps if a Ring could shed tears of gratitude, then still it would shed only one - and this unquestionably would be its form. Discounts Silver of Evening by 7 Arete and augments + unlocks it.

Evening Sky: Silver of Evening - 25 Arete (1 pick)

Inset in the crown of evening is a star of purest edeldross; its wearer becomes swift as nightfall after the sun's passing, beautiful as the naked stars, and sacred as midnight itself. For all spheres of magic in Evening reside: its wearer their master, and champion besides.

Double the Magnitude of present and future Edeldross enhancements.
Edeldross-derived abilities now count as full Graces (don't require upkeep or corporeal structure to maintain)
+100% to the value of AGI and Charisma +s
+1 Defensive Rank
Once per sidereal month, perfectly defeat any one hostile effect to which the wearer would otherwise be subject. Applied against a Curse, grants two stages of mitigation for one day and one night. May apply even to the Doom of the Tyrant.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I can see it if it's about storing Edeldross Grace Runes in our Soul to preserve them. The question is what Azure did to make that possible. Help us fit more Edeldross things in our Soul besides the Jewel?

vali said:
Yeah that makes sense. A grace is an Arcanist rune (or maybe a lot of runes) written using Findross. An Edeldross grace is an Arcanist rune written using Edeldross. Edeldross is less suitable than Findross but it can still support some stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's more to it then that for Graces. What Sorceresses did with the Maiden's gift was something they could do without knowing Arcanist Runes. Some working of the Maiden beyond my understanding imprinted the runes on people metaphysically perhaps. As they produce more Findross they get Rune or rune set X at Coalesence 1, then their Findross production increases to the 2nd Coalescence point so they get the rune or runes at the metaphorical 2 point on their body's metaphorical Findross Measuring Cup.
 
Conjured Blade said:
There's more to it then that for Graces. What Sorceresses did with the Maiden's gift was something they could do without knowing Arcanist Runes. Some working of the Maiden beyond my understanding imprinted the runes on people metaphysically perhaps. As they produce more Findross they get Rune or rune set X at Coalesence 1, then their Findross production increases to the 2nd Coalescence point so they get the rune or runes at the metaphorical 2 point on their body's metaphorical Findross Measuring Cup.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There were always a finite number of Graces. Rihaku mentioned that the elves created the Eschaton Sorceress to deny the humans key graces, meaning that not only are graces finite but a single person can have enough of the really good ones to weaken everyone. The sorceresses aren't making these graces themselves, they're just getting them for free. Which is why they were called graces; it's a divine gift you didn't do anything to deserve.

Rihaku said:
Findross was just inherent to the nature of this plane. The Maiden was a result of the first findross singularity, afterwards she splintered her power to decrease the risk if a crazy person manifested a singularity. Sylvie, descended in part from a very powerful elven lord, was the result of an elven program to create Sorceresses that they could influence, thereby splintering humanity's defenses and denying them access to key Graces in the event of war.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

My best guess is a grace is a sequence of runes written in Findross, and which is able to integrate into a person's soul/spirit/astral shadow. You already mentioned on the previous page that Findross can be infused into people's spirit, so findross shaped into runes can also be infused into someone's spirit. When the Maiden ascended she stole all the secrets of the elves, create a whole bunch of graces, created a system to distribute those graces, then made Findross meta-singularities impossible, an act that also killed her since she is herself a findross meta-singularity.

Conjured Blade said:
The tears of Winter are Solid Myth, with no findross runes to stabilize them. Meaning they were stabilized by some method X. Like Miralleyan Blood perhaps? They are Sharpness and Light cast into matter. They are a conduit between the base and the supernal. They have several domains that are arguably compatible with Edeldross. Intellect, Calculation, Beauty, Finesse, Quickness, Overwhelming power, Grandeur, and Purity. All of these seem like subdomains of perfection. Maybe rulership too if you stretch. The rest is social context and backstory imprinted onto the jewels.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Or maybe the tears of winter are solid Winter, and all their domains are subdomains of Winter. Maybe Winter from Even Further Beyond cried at one point, and someone took those tears and saved them and they ended up in the Voyaging Realm via the same method that the rings did.

...

Here's what I wrote last time about Edeldross:
vali said:
Edeldross is determined by his relationships, so here is which elements correspond to which relationships.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Edeldross being Myth is a decent theory. Hunger is himself a character out of myth, the mythical thousand-faced hero, so him getting the myth element does make sense.
 
Last edited:
vali said:
There were always a finite number of Graces. Rihaku mentioned that the elves created the Eschaton Sorceress to deny the humans key graces, meaning that not only are graces finite but a single person can have enough of the really good ones to weaken everyone. The sorceresses aren't making these graces themselves, they're just getting them for free. Which is why they were called graces; it's a divine gift you didn't do anything to deserve.



My best guess is a grace is a sequence of runes written in Findross, and which is able to integrate into a person's soul/spirit/astral shadow. You already mentioned on the previous page that Findross can be infused into people's spirit, so findross shaped into runes can also be infused into someone's spirit. When the Maiden ascended she stole all the secrets of the elves, create a whole bunch of graces, created a system to distribute those graces, then made Findross singularities impossible, an act that also killed her since she is herself a findross singularity.



Or maybe the tears of winter are solid Winter, and all their domains are subdomains of Winter. Maybe Winter from Even Further Beyond cried at one point, and someone took those tears and saved them and they ended up in the Voyaging Realm via the same method that the rings did.

...

Here's what I wrote last time about Edeldross:


Edeldross being Myth is a decent theory. Hunger is himself a character out of myth, the mythical thousand-faced hero, so him getting the myth element does make sense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I had forgotten those bits about Eschaton and finite numbers. So it could be something like a metaphorical planet. Some source of metaphysical gravity set up by the Maiden. A Sorceress is another planet, trying to get enough findross gravity to sweep up orbiting graces from the Maiden's Planet.

As for the Solid Winter thing, It's a question of how literally we're met to take the descriptions of the Walls of Myth and the Tears of Winter I suppose. What do the Golden Azure Runes do to the Translucent substance they're written on?

If the Runes on the Walls of Myth are ISH elevated Findross because that's what True Quintessence is, Findross Runes on Praxis Blue, then God I hope Aobaru's enough if Myth turns out to be ISH Elevated Edeldross. I'll be glad when this is over.

Thanks for the compliment on my theory though.
 
vali said:
Or maybe the tears of winter are solid Winter, and all their domains are subdomains of Winter. Maybe Winter from Even Further Beyond cried at one point, and someone took those tears and saved them and they ended up in the Voyaging Realm via the same method that the rings did.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
[ ] The Tears of Winter [25 Arete, 1 Panoply Slot] - The Crown Jewels of Nilfel are myth crystallized and spun into sharpness and light; they are pinnacle treasures beyond mere power or worth, transcendent droplets of pure creation rained down from the empyreal.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Unless this was just poetic license, we do know that the Tears have a connection to Myth.

With all this analysis of Edeldross and Findross, I wonder if we'll be able to figure out the way to generate Findross that was promised during character creation. Three Weeks in the Realm of Evening sounds like a great opportunity to infuse Findross into every member of the party
 
Zampano said:
Unless this was just poetic license, we do know that the Tears have a connection to Myth.

With all this analysis of Edeldross and Findross, I wonder if we'll be able to figure out the way to generate Findross that was promised during character creation. Three Weeks in the Realm of Evening sounds like a great opportunity to infuse Findross into every member of the party
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Accursed Implement(The Update Before the Edeldross Vote) is on our Character Sheet. We had the means to generate Findross by an obscure mechanism once Edeldross was added on top of that. Whatever help Gisena(Third Coalescence Sorceress at the time) and Verschlengorge may or may not have been able to provide. The Forbears Blade with ISH sword techniques and Ghostform and Power of Ruin circa Accursed Implement that we can channel through our body too, The Ring of Hunger Circa Accursed Implement, The Evening Sky Circa Accursed Implement, our Astral Rank, and Edeldross. Those are the pieces of the puzzle I'm aware of. It could be that the Create Findross rune works in Edeldross but it could just as easily be something else. I don't see how Decimator's Affliction or Apocrypha would matter, as curses that effect the environment and Decimators was suppressed at the time, but I suppose they exist.


Edit: @vali perhaps a halfway point is that winters tears are made of myth essence?
 
Last edited:
The Tears of Winter were described as transcendent droplets of pure creation rained down from the empyreal and Opalascent Tower turned the Evening Sky into the Empyrean Mantle so the two are likely related.
 
Conjured Blade said:
This opens up new material for Synthesis Tactics. It also establishes that Gisena discovered a way to effect her spirit on the Astral Plane with Findross. If a Coalesence is a Singularity of Findross within the Body. Then what is a meta-singularity? A Singularity of Singularities? Did Gisena trigger singularities within her body and spirit simultaneously, making them feed off each other?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

My guess is her meta-singularity of findross meant that just as sorceresses could create findross, the maiden could create singularities of findross. Each grace is a set of findross runes that is powered by a findross singularity that the Maiden attached, then the full package is installed into the sorceresses spirit/astral/soul. That's why the more coalescences a sorceresses gets, the more findross she has. Three singularities are better than one after all. Creating a grace without a singularity is possible but it means you have to gather the findross to create and power the thing yourself. This is why our Edeldross graces require upkeep; they don't come with a free edeldross singularity installed, just the runes. At least that was the case until we got silver of evening to provide the necessary upkeep edeldross.

...

Edeldross, Findross, and Elixirdross all get described using lots of terms referencing the sky, see the words I bolded and underlined below.

Rihaku said:
There was a pulse within him, coruscating light erupting outwards and inwards, a roar like the onrushing sea, and he felt golden findross permeating every capillary and ventricle of his being. Pressure as if from untold depths forcing it into every cell - and then condensation, an unbearable compression, and finally Coalescence: every vein and nerve lit up like a molten causeway, glittering like distilled star-stuff, cross-linked into a constellation enmeshing the furnace-reactor at his heart.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Rihaku said:
[ ] Edeldross: This precursor component of findross embodies redemption, perfection, restoration and the renewal of cycles. It is the liminal gloss between real and ideal, whereby the purposeless matter of the corporeal world becomes the refined substrate of supernal augmentation. Blasts, voids and shields of solidified edeldross convey the principle of 'transference without harm,' allowing the character to re-position allies and scatter enemies with minimal possibility of collateral damage. Kinetic flight is possible through continuous burst releases, but its greatest benefits are found in augmentation. Pure edeldross is semi-corporeal and swiftly fades beneath the withering indifference of the real, but contained within a person's body it holistically augments all elements of the self, supernal excellence beyond the reach of the mundane.

Though mastery is a long and arduous process, precise configurations of Edeldross can be arranged so as to replicate nearly one-tenth of all Sorcerous Graces.

Hunger's Imaginary Element is determined by his relationships. Gisena's art, shaped by Letrizia's language and technique, conferring Catherine's benevolence. +Gisena, +Letrizia, +Catherine (?)

Discounts Total Eclipse by 1 Arete
-Solidified edeldross can be used as a form of damage-preventing energy blast, which, while unable to slay enemies on its own, can be actively spammed due to its negation of harm. Can ablate away to cancel equivalent quantities of Nullity, allowing for easy combat alongside Gisena with a bit of practice. Pacify a city undergoing a zombie apocalypse with a minimum of innocent life lost, scatter both sides in a pitched battle without slaying any of their number, etc.
-Beings within the radius of a release of pure edeldross receive a 20% bonus to all Attributes. The magnitude of this bonus can be improved over time. Take care not to buff your enemies as well. Pure edeldross is considerably more draining to use.
-By working with Gisena's mage-sight, Hunger may slowly over time develop specific Patterns of edeldross that can temporary replicate the effects of various Sorcerous Graces. Perhaps developments even further than this can be achieved in time...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Rihaku said:
[ ] Total Eclipse - 25 Arete. The numinous time of sacred transfixion. Night sweeps field and horizon in a thundering advance, halo of the blinkered sun the only residue of day. Twilight's orphaned half-brother, cast aside on the eve of creation and trotted out only for spectacle and occasion. No longer, for the flare of your cloak is this twilight pretender, the liminal glow that precludes day and evening both. Unlocks the [True Quintessence], by which She Who Was The Maiden attained supremacy over the Manifest Realm, and for which the Maiden's successors might one day be anointed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Rihaku said:
[ ] Elixir (all picks, 20 Arete) - Feat: Reckoner, adding .375 Rank and upgrades Edeldross to 25-point version. A rare Advancement. Sufficient refinement of Edeldross can create a substance ontologically equivalent to findross in potency but different in character: fairer, nobler and brighter, a power not for shining paragons but for heroes of legend; not the pristine beauty of the stars, but the blinding incandescence of the Sun itself!

*In conjunction with the Ring of Blood, allows Hunger to induce the Fairbright Bloodline in himself once his effective Blood Rank exceeds 8.0. If successful, mitigates the Apocryphal Curse by one half-stage.
*Vastly expands the space of possible Graces and enormously expands their potency.
*Does not disqualify Hunger for Trinity later, as Arete spend towards his Element is not classified as belonging to any one Artifact.
*Edeldross can now heal Hunger's eye, liver, and lung. Discounts Final Form by 7 (!) Arete.
*Hunger will learn what the Fairbright Bloodline actually does. --Heartlessness.
*Lucenthorne shall seek you as an ally, for any who wields the Fairbright Essence cannot be its enemy. You need not wield it personally; it has resided in the hands of ruler and champion both.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Rihaku said:
[ ] Evening Sky: Silver of Evening - 25 Arete (1 pick)

Inset in the crown of evening is a star of purest edeldross; its wearer becomes swift as nightfall after the sun's passing, beautiful as the naked stars, and sacred as midnight itself. For all spheres of magic in Evening reside: its wearer their master, and champion besides.

Double the Magnitude of present and future Edeldross enhancements.
+100% to the value of AGI and Charisma +s
+1 Defensive Rank
Once per sidereal month, perfectly defeat any one hostile effect to which the wearer would otherwise be subject. Applied against a Curse, grants two stages of mitigation for one day and one night. May apply even to the Doom of the Tyrant.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Now remember the signs we've been offered with our cloak. There's Evening, Noonday, Vast Empyrean, and maybe some more we haven't unlocked yet.

Edeldross: No associated Sign. Silver of Evening has lots of sky references but it's a power of our mantle, Edeldross itself makes no mention of anything sky-related.
Findross: Seram's section mentions stars so the associated sign is most likely the Evening, but stars or eclipse are also possible.
Elixirdross: The sun is mentioned so the associated sign would be Noonday.

Perhaps continuing to take Evening Signs will give us some power over Findross, or improve Evening Sky: Silver of Evening?
Maybe the primordial sorceries of the Signs are an older version of Augistines's runes?
Are there any 'dross substances assocaited with the Vast Empyrean? Perhaps the Vast Emprean sign is associated with true qintessence?
Not sure how the moon, Azure or otherwise, ties into this.
 
Last edited:
vali said:
Edeldross
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is a good reminder that Total Eclipse got a discount when we got surgecasting. Since Total Eclipse is explicitly an Evening Sky upgrade, it will get the same Tower boost as Pillars & Silver of Evening. Silver's boost made its perfect defense available four times as often and made its stat modifiers 20% larger. Pillars' boost made its effect last three times longer than before. What might boosted Eclipse look like?

The modifications for Total Eclipse's blurb are harder to predict, because I don't really understand what [True Quintessence] does for us. In the narrative, it seems to be related to both Edeldross surgecasting and more conventional Findross sorcery. The statement index has Rihaku repeatedly calling Total Eclipse a pure potential option with no immediate power. Maybe the Tower boost would let us translate the unlocked Signs of the Empyrean into a Grace right away?

I am >75% confident that piling another pure potential option like [True Quintessence] onto the Cloak will unlock esoteric utility effects instead of offensive dakka. That puts it in the unenviable position of competing directly with Ruling Ring (reality manipulation and ++Progression) and Sword in the Stone (which leverages raw power into good governance).
 
Maybe if we fear dyting then we should choose power option.

If our companion die if not to some super praxis then we can just resurrect them in the future.
 
Yes
Adhoc vote count started by Rah13 on Oct 10, 2020 at 3:08 AM, finished with 315 posts and 53 votes.
Click to expand...
 
Time to

S y n t h e s i z e

H e r

(Adorie) some mythic platinum coinage.
 
Tactics Effortpost #2.5

Spend 24 Arete on Total Eclipse and buy a Grace that lets us directly manipulate Myth

End of Tactics Efforpost #2.5


((Actually, given that artifacts can't be built in the Realm of Evening, Gisena's about to have 3 weeks where the only productive thing she can do is design graces. Maybe we should think about how to improve her output...))
 
Conjured Blade said:
Edit: @vali perhaps a halfway point is that winters tears are made of myth essence?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The jewels are definitely myth, it says so in their option.

Rihaku said:
The Crown Jewels of Nilfel are myth crystallized and spun into sharpness and light; they are pinnacle treasures beyond mere power or worth, transcendent droplets of pure creation rained down from the empyreal.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

My disagreement is I don't think they were mined, or magicked up into existence, or that they fall as rain all the time. I think the Fate/god Winter was up in the Empyreal, sobbing in agony from the absurd amount of torture Nameless was subjecting her to, and a few of her tears fell down to earth. Maybe someone caught those tears and crystallized them. Maybe the tears randomly fell inside the realm of Myth and crystallized naturally. But they started as tears first and the myth came later.

If we spun and crystallized pure myth the result would be identical to the walls of myth; a clear substance with a number of effects, but nothing comparable to the jewels. These jewels are special because they are not pure myth, they are the tears of a god caught and preserved in myth like a bug in amber. And also because if Winter is dead that means no one can ever create more of them ever again.
 
Last edited:
Man, Total Eclipse was an Evening Sky EFB.

What does Tower'd Total Eclipse look like? Now I want to know.
 
Aabcehmu said:
What does Tower'd Total Eclipse look like? Now I want to know.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm wondering myself whether the Total Eclipse is more about the moon or the stars. In the latter case its most salient quality was the momentous aspect of the eclipse, which rises up from obscurity to conquer the heavens for a brief moment. Fate realized, become predestination. If it's more lunar though the focus would be on the moon negating the sun. Myth and legend denied, mortal utility elevated to contend providence. No fate but what we make.

Either way I suspect High Sorcery is only the beginning.
 
Box Lunch said:
Myth and legend denied, mortal utility elevated to contend providence. No fate but what we make.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This was a cool turn of phrase. I support these tactics!

Unlocking one grace after another via Total Eclipse, a predictable and inevitable outgrowth of celestial mechanics, fits if you're interested in maintaining the epic tone of previous advancements. But the phrase "Total Eclipse" conjures only one idea for me:



Maybe Total Eclipse is actually the gate for a BioWare style Gisena Romance :V
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top