A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- US
- Location
- Earth
[X] Once and Future I
[X] The Lord Protector
[X] Priority Two
[X] The Lord Protector
[X] Priority Two
Rihaku
The Internet
Focusing the Lord Protector this early is a bit of a gamble... even if you successfully dispatch him, Hunger has no idea whether his next Huntress' Moon targets will even be in uninhabited areas! Focusing Decimation early may be somewhat riskier, but it gives Hunger a better chance at having his cake and eating it too...
Duquette7
I am Fire, and I am Rain
That would make what? 3? 4? Updates worth of Hunger having his cake and eating it too, mans going to get a stomach ache if he doesn't sit down and digest something at some point!
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[X] All-Defeating Stance + Exalted Spirit
[X] The Lord Protector
[X] Priority Two
What's that? These options are different from ones I thought to prioritize previously? Next thing you know I'll be accused of lacking that mythical quality called 'consistency'.
To be honest I'm simply out of options when it comes to solving all our current problems without significant sacrifices, so I'm hoping Hunger and Gisena will come up with something better thanks to the enhancements. Well, something other than 'should have taken OaF'. It's not like the power ADS provides is insignificant, both the AllStats, All-Ruin and Holy Shit, so I think this will be enough to defeat the Lord Protector. Maybe Decimation Mitigation will prolong our current Sated duration?
But if choosing between what to take care of first, I think I'll pick the Lord Protector to me. The more I learn about him, the more it sounds to me like giving this evil wizard time to prepare (and leaving our companions behind in his reach!!) is a recipe for disaster.
Between HS and VR, I guess the warnings finally got through to me. And the idea that we'll let Letrizia's dad die because we were fucking around in an amusement park doesn't sit right with me either. Ah, VR, how I'll miss thee...
[X] The Lord Protector
[X] Priority Two
What's that? These options are different from ones I thought to prioritize previously? Next thing you know I'll be accused of lacking that mythical quality called 'consistency'.
To be honest I'm simply out of options when it comes to solving all our current problems without significant sacrifices, so I'm hoping Hunger and Gisena will come up with something better thanks to the enhancements. Well, something other than 'should have taken OaF'. It's not like the power ADS provides is insignificant, both the AllStats, All-Ruin and Holy Shit, so I think this will be enough to defeat the Lord Protector. Maybe Decimation Mitigation will prolong our current Sated duration?
But if choosing between what to take care of first, I think I'll pick the Lord Protector to me. The more I learn about him, the more it sounds to me like giving this evil wizard time to prepare (and leaving our companions behind in his reach!!) is a recipe for disaster.
Between HS and VR, I guess the warnings finally got through to me. And the idea that we'll let Letrizia's dad die because we were fucking around in an amusement park doesn't sit right with me either. Ah, VR, how I'll miss thee...
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
Unless there's Patreon info that i don't know, we have no reason to believe that Letrizia's dad is in any kind of immediate threat. There are two avenues that I can imagine:
1. Dad is being targeted by the coup / betrayal. In this case, they would've moved quickly to take him out quickly. He was likely their first target after getting Versch out of the way. Rushing back to the Human Sphere just returns Letrizia to the conspirators at their moment of triumph. Much easier to depose a second Ruler while riding the momentum of killing the first.
2. Dad is just naturally frail, as a result of exposure to Decimation. In this case, there is no reason to rush. The VR plot has an immediate threat from the being sent by Chains of Fate, and then promises to involve a long-term acquisition of power. Why not set Aobaru up with some +Progression and give him a power base of allied politics before departing for the HS?
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
[x] All-Defeating Stance + Exalted Spirit
[X] The Lord Protector
[X] Priority Two
ADS + Exalted + picks harvested off of LP's corpse ought be enough to get Decimation targets in time; as a side note, it is transparently clear to me that Adorie is the best character
[X] The Lord Protector
[X] Priority Two
ADS + Exalted + picks harvested off of LP's corpse ought be enough to get Decimation targets in time; as a side note, it is transparently clear to me that Adorie is the best character
- Location
- Pindorama
I don't know why you would choose to fight the Lord Protector with A-DS instead of Once and Future since the latter is explicitly said to give favorable odds against him while the former basically has to gamble in Hunger seeing something we don't.
None of the benefits of A-DS help solve our current problems more than OaF. More intelligence is nice, Apocryphal Mitigation is nice, Holy shit is nice, they're all nice things, don't get me wrong. But they would not make us actually more powerful against the Lord Protector, while Once and Future would. They might or might not be more helpful depending on the mitigation target we choose for Decimation; but we can also choose targets that play into OaF's strengths as well, so it's a toss-up for me.
Like, seriously, if want to fight the Lord Protector choose Once and Future. It's our most powerful option against him as long as he has no time to prepare, and the Lord Protector vote actively tries to deny him time to do that exact thing, which is obviously going to be much more effective should we actually be more powerful than him. It's, dare I say it, synergistic.
Please don't be distracted by the mere presentation of the options; Once and Future is a much better answer to our immediate problems. So I really want you to vote for it.
None of the benefits of A-DS help solve our current problems more than OaF. More intelligence is nice, Apocryphal Mitigation is nice, Holy shit is nice, they're all nice things, don't get me wrong. But they would not make us actually more powerful against the Lord Protector, while Once and Future would. They might or might not be more helpful depending on the mitigation target we choose for Decimation; but we can also choose targets that play into OaF's strengths as well, so it's a toss-up for me.
Like, seriously, if want to fight the Lord Protector choose Once and Future. It's our most powerful option against him as long as he has no time to prepare, and the Lord Protector vote actively tries to deny him time to do that exact thing, which is obviously going to be much more effective should we actually be more powerful than him. It's, dare I say it, synergistic.
Please don't be distracted by the mere presentation of the options; Once and Future is a much better answer to our immediate problems. So I really want you to vote for it.
Rihaku
The Internet
The hobgoblin of small minds?
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
So. Competence Improvement from ADS+Exalted Spirit Modeling Competence as the Sum of Intelligence and Wisdom after Buffs.
Current Competence:
Intelligence: 8(Basic Edeldross Buff/Debuff Multiplier: 1.45) = 11.6
Wisdom(Noncombat): 4 (Basic Edeldross Buff/Debuff Multiplier: 1.15) = 4.6
Wisdom(Combat):6(Basic Edeldross Buff/Debuff Multiplier: 1.15) = 6.9
Total Comptence: 16.2 Noncombat, 18.5 Combat
(The Wisdom is 2 from Guile Defeating Stance, 1 from Hero-Defeating Stance, 1 from Bastion of Myth, Rune isn't keeping track of stuff like stance Wisdom to minimize the fiddliness of the charsheet)
Post ADS+Exalted Spirit Competence:
Intelligence: 14(Basic Edeldross Buff/Debuff Multiplier: 1.45) = 20.3
Wisdom(Noncombat): 8(Basic Edeldross Buff/Debuff Multiplier:1.15) =9.2
Wisdom(Combat): 10(Basic Edeldross Buff/Debuff Multiplier: 1.15) = 11.5
Total Competence: 29.5 Noncombat(82% Improvement from current), 31.8 Combat(72% Improvement From Current)
This is not Blindsight Vampire Level Competence in battle. It is too showy to be Blindsight Vampire level competence. It's still more illustrative than having sufficiently ridiculous brainpower to move a series of randomly arranged glasses on a table into a perfectly straight, evenly spaced line with a dance routine that never touches the glasses, and probably the closest thing I can think of to Blindsight Vampire competence reachable by a human being. High combat competence is being able to fight like this, without needing to rehearse, without needing to know the level. It is the ability to fight like this all the time.
On the other hand, rank 10+ Bloodcasting and a mystery Box is another brand of awesome hax and I can see just shooting the Lord Protector with High Rank too. Rank is a potent force multiplier for genuine competence/smarts too, as this case of Letrezia using a rank advantage to win against a genuinely more competent Orator in debate illustrates. The counterfactual rank we would have had with All Under Heaven before Signs(7.875 Base, 8.875 Defensive rank from Silver of Evening, 9.875 For Blood Manipulation purposes from Crimson Flare, 8.875 for Military purposes) was described as unlikely to be enough to deal with a new Decimator's Affliction target in time though.
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
Once and Future Means our 7.875 Rank?(I don't think the .4 Rank we got from Bastion of Myth is Currently being counted and I'm still confused on if Hero-Defeating Stance's External rank was ever factored into our current rank or not) self gets .6 base external rank normally but 1.6 external rank for military subjects. That means 8.475 Base Rank, 9.475 Defensive Rank from Silver of Evening, 10.475 blood rank, 9.475 military rank. This may be enough to get the Decimator's Target with King of Winter benefits but it might not. On a meta level, the more powerful we are, the wider the range of the Decimator's Affliction if we fail. I suspect we're already Solar System level(Good thing the Voyaging Realm is described as a pocket universe), feeding on a Solar System worth of life like we're a Combat Cursebearer if it goes back online. The question is how ADS stacks up with Once and Future by comparison.
Current Competence:
Intelligence: 8(Basic Edeldross Buff/Debuff Multiplier: 1.45) = 11.6
Wisdom(Noncombat): 4 (Basic Edeldross Buff/Debuff Multiplier: 1.15) = 4.6
Wisdom(Combat):6(Basic Edeldross Buff/Debuff Multiplier: 1.15) = 6.9
Total Comptence: 16.2 Noncombat, 18.5 Combat
(The Wisdom is 2 from Guile Defeating Stance, 1 from Hero-Defeating Stance, 1 from Bastion of Myth, Rune isn't keeping track of stuff like stance Wisdom to minimize the fiddliness of the charsheet)
Post ADS+Exalted Spirit Competence:
Intelligence: 14(Basic Edeldross Buff/Debuff Multiplier: 1.45) = 20.3
Wisdom(Noncombat): 8(Basic Edeldross Buff/Debuff Multiplier:1.15) =9.2
Wisdom(Combat): 10(Basic Edeldross Buff/Debuff Multiplier: 1.15) = 11.5
Total Competence: 29.5 Noncombat(82% Improvement from current), 31.8 Combat(72% Improvement From Current)
This is not Blindsight Vampire Level Competence in battle. It is too showy to be Blindsight Vampire level competence. It's still more illustrative than having sufficiently ridiculous brainpower to move a series of randomly arranged glasses on a table into a perfectly straight, evenly spaced line with a dance routine that never touches the glasses, and probably the closest thing I can think of to Blindsight Vampire competence reachable by a human being. High combat competence is being able to fight like this, without needing to rehearse, without needing to know the level. It is the ability to fight like this all the time.
On the other hand, rank 10+ Bloodcasting and a mystery Box is another brand of awesome hax and I can see just shooting the Lord Protector with High Rank too. Rank is a potent force multiplier for genuine competence/smarts too, as this case of Letrezia using a rank advantage to win against a genuinely more competent Orator in debate illustrates. The counterfactual rank we would have had with All Under Heaven before Signs(7.875 Base, 8.875 Defensive rank from Silver of Evening, 9.875 For Blood Manipulation purposes from Crimson Flare, 8.875 for Military purposes) was described as unlikely to be enough to deal with a new Decimator's Affliction target in time though.
A Simple Transaction I Original
A quest about a simple transaction and the consequences that follow.
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
Once and Future Means our 7.875 Rank?(I don't think the .4 Rank we got from Bastion of Myth is Currently being counted and I'm still confused on if Hero-Defeating Stance's External rank was ever factored into our current rank or not) self gets .6 base external rank normally but 1.6 external rank for military subjects. That means 8.475 Base Rank, 9.475 Defensive Rank from Silver of Evening, 10.475 blood rank, 9.475 military rank. This may be enough to get the Decimator's Target with King of Winter benefits but it might not. On a meta level, the more powerful we are, the wider the range of the Decimator's Affliction if we fail. I suspect we're already Solar System level(Good thing the Voyaging Realm is described as a pocket universe), feeding on a Solar System worth of life like we're a Combat Cursebearer if it goes back online. The question is how ADS stacks up with Once and Future by comparison.
Yes, there's Patreon content you're not aware of. It doesn't necessarily result in his death, but it does push him into a dangerous situation. Considering he's already ill, I don't like those odds. That isn't really a good basis for arguments though, so I'll just go with wanting to finally fix Versch and start our main quest.
I feel like ADS is getting seriously underestimated here. The Magic-Defeating Stance gets almost fully integrated into it, so not only will he have the Power of Ruin applied to his every action and scheme against us, his spells will have to overcome our Ruin Armor to get to us first. It's not Rank, but it's hardly helpless.
Though the main reason why I'm choosing it is the INT enhancement and the vain hope that he'll think of something better.
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Well, at least we know how she commands the nameless vendor's loyalty! This conversation taking place with the fate of the kingdom hanging in the balance is surreal, what a singularity of spilled spaghetti, better omit this one from the history books. I can imagine Aeira, a consummate professional, looking around for an adult. But no, there's just Gisena, struggling to restrain her laughter.
[X] Priority Two
[X] Once and Future I
[X] The Lord Protector
Time to return to my degenerate, red-option picking ways! Maybe it's just the recent appearance of a feline summons, but I'm reminded of Jounin Quest, where we left the rest of the party in Panther's care only for her protection to be overwhelmed by a newly-merged Kakuzumaru. Ceding the initiative to an enemy like this is asking for trouble, our original plans to prioritize Decimation aside. It seems like we're not going to be spending Silver preemptively on mitigation, so we might as well try and speedrun Nilfel. At least it'll give us an excuse to duck out of any parades afterward.
If we're just Cutting Through as fast as possible, tactical flexibility's less useful. Whatever contingency plans he has for our survival, there's no way they accounted for Hunger walking out of the rapidly-disintegrating Opalescent Tower with three EFB advancements. The skewed IC : OOC time ratio works in our favor, this is a ridiculous amount of power to acquire in a span of hours. It's true that OaF doesn't provide as much Rank as it once did, but the value of that Rank has increased as ours has risen. Remember that we still stand to earn an Errantry bonus at the end of this mess, though it may be a drop in the bucket. And then there's King of Winter's mystery box to consider. Speaking of Winter monarchs...
Wow, it's fucking beautiful. No words. Should've sent a poet. The past should blast us more often, Moon puts the cute in electrocute. The sweetness in the Sow the Wind sketch alone is a danger to diabetics everywhere.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
I'm going to continue beating the drum about how the resources in the Voyaging Realm are useful for our Task.
Each magic system is a unique asset that nobody in the HS will have seen before. Magic systems have applications in both the conquest and the administration of our holdings. For fixing Versch, technology to interface with Foremost technology certainly exists in the infrastructure of the Voyaging Realm that Aobaru is Chosen to recover. The necessary equipment can be reverse-engineered. Logistically, a stronghold that is beyond the reach of political enemies is a huge advantage, after all. It gives us armies to conscript, industry to produce weapons, cultural clout for farming Rank. We can use the VR to access the Astral Realm and launch raids like the ones that Versch was defending against at the start of the quest.
Hell, if we redefine the VR to qualify as part of the Human Sphere, then our Geas task gets way easier. We know that the VR is massive, and we are training the guy who is going to be its undisputed master. If the VR is more than 90% of the combined area of {Empire, Republic, and VR} then we'd have the Geas Task halfway solved already!
...but it's nice to know that there are going to be interesting and wholesome plot developments regardless of which vote wins.
- Location
- Pindorama
Again, that's nice. It's not actually enough to make us favored against him.
Like, am I just missing something here? You make the decision, "Hey, let's fight the Lord Protector." One option states it has favored odds against him, the other does not. The choice should be obvious.
The fact that Once and Future might be vulnerable to his preparations only makes choosing it even better since the option to fight explicitly tries to deny him that. Therefore, it would have the best odds.
We have underestimated him once before and payed the price already. If we are serious about this, why not maximize our chances of victory? We don't need "lateral capability expansion" or something when we can just Cut Through. Play to our strengths and just kill him. Once we are out of the danger, we can grab "nice" things. Not during it.
Adorie has shot to the top as my third-favorite character, by the way. Looking forward to more wholesome conversations about cake and other things of similar import!
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
It is questionable that we would get the opportunity to fight him in a straight duel, and we know Lord Protector to be exceptionally crafty and proactive. We're not just running into his base and shouting "Duel me," we presumably have to "Initiate a full court press against the existing regime with the best tactics at Hunger's disposal" and as it so happens, ADS + Exalted are guaranteed to give us better tactics. Even if we would win in a straight fight, we're not guaranteed to win the war, which I think ADS + Exalted does a generally better job of doing. Additionally, Rihaku has warned us repeatedly about anti-Rank specialists, so at this point we're guaranteed to fight one (since it's a flaw in our build that is quite obvious, and LP has been intelligent for awhile now)
A list of possible tactics:
1.) Outer Shadow the fuck out of those legions-- they probably have some form of magical communication and augmentation, dispelling it is a good starter
2.) Edeldross civilians to keep them safe, use blasts to disperse troops of the Nilfellian legions
3.) Nightmare flight behind LP or behind supply lines, commit stab (or Artful Thorn)
4.) Abuse Fall of Night and your bladewinds to scour the enemy with hundreds of cuts, follow suit with bloodbending to turn them into waterfalls
5.) Stun people with our charisma, flaring it to memetically obliterate them, then get information from them
6.) Use our big Wits + Int to assess the most optimal time to Silver of Evening block them
Also, an advantage of taking ADS now: as I mentioned before, we might accomplish our Decimator challenge more quickly and easily if we acquire OaF after determining the next target. Of course we'll have less power against the Lord Protector, but I don't think that much raw Rank is necessary against him. ADS could make up for the power and influence gap too as long as we're smart, and thankfully it helps our intelligence quite a bit.
[X] Priority Two
[X] Once and Future I
[X] The Lord Protector
Yeah Zamp convinced me to realize Tyrant boi fucked us over even when we rolled a 90+ which is... fuck me have i not seen an evil villan like that you don't leave time for him to just fucking twirl his mustache and make large winded plans but do the logical thing and punch them in the face really hard before they can even think of saying their cliché lines to the hero.
Tyrant already sprung on us major traps and guardians on us which led to us taking on Chains of Fate. Let's NOT try to underestimate the evil dude and leave our companions behind.
[X] Once and Future I
[X] The Lord Protector
Yeah Zamp convinced me to realize Tyrant boi fucked us over even when we rolled a 90+ which is... fuck me have i not seen an evil villan like that you don't leave time for him to just fucking twirl his mustache and make large winded plans but do the logical thing and punch them in the face really hard before they can even think of saying their cliché lines to the hero.
Tyrant already sprung on us major traps and guardians on us which led to us taking on Chains of Fate. Let's NOT try to underestimate the evil dude and leave our companions behind.
>While it lacks in raw power
>ADS
How the mighty have fallen.
>Voyage vs Not Voyage
At this point I feel that we need all immediate power we can get, and Voyage does actually grants us some immediate power. Not as good as I thought because of a Penitent conflict, but nonetheless, something to consider. Even with OaF odds are merely "favorable" which is a pretty lukewarm description in Rihakuspeak; it wouls be best to tilt the odds further than that.
Grabbing both ads and OaF would be probably the best option, though.
>ADS
How the mighty have fallen.
>Voyage vs Not Voyage
At this point I feel that we need all immediate power we can get, and Voyage does actually grants us some immediate power. Not as good as I thought because of a Penitent conflict, but nonetheless, something to consider. Even with OaF odds are merely "favorable" which is a pretty lukewarm description in Rihakuspeak; it wouls be best to tilt the odds further than that.
Grabbing both ads and OaF would be probably the best option, though.
- Location
- Pindorama
Given the wording of the option, we wouldn't charge in saying "Duel me":
Explicitly mentions using the Legions here. In fact, and I suppose most people have forgotten this, Once and Future doesn't just get it's full bonus in personal fights, but in all military matters. Obviously, this would include a campaign against the Lord Protector. A-DS doesn't even say it would be better in a normal campaign, just better in when it comes to lateral actions. I don't think all those stats would actually overcome a 1 Rank difference, especially because it's in the High Ranks; we'd be 9.4 Rank in all matters military! That's absolutely incredible.
All these tactics are still possible with Once and Future, indeed, they'd be much more likely to succeed due to our overwhelming Rank. Once and Future is in fact an amazing pick for a campaign. A-DS does certainly do a ton of nice things, but we don't win of the back of nice things; we win by being better than our opponent. We are unlikely to overcome the Lord Protector in the tricks department given who he his; so let's deny him time to prepare by hitting him with as much overwhelming power as possible.
Really, we shouldn't try to play his game; we should make him play ours. Once and Future does that exactly.
The same argument could be made against A-DS, except it would be a far better argument because it not only costs a substantial deal less, it's also snap-buyable, meaning it would actually be available for emergencies should we need it. The logic for saving up just doesn't make sense for Once and Future since it requires a pick and it is the more expensive of the two, especially since we will pressed for time fro our next target. It's far better to pick Once and Future here now that we can, in my opinion.
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Not really the same logic, because there's a difference in power. Basically, challenges that were difficult before OaF+WinterKing will become much easier. ADS will help too, but not as much. A pick is like, whatever, we can get that anytime.
If we really needed OaF against the Lord Protector, I'd agree with taking it now, but ADS seems to suffice against him to me.