[ ] King and Court

Once and Future I
+ Companions of the King [53 Arete].
Urg, Companions, I thought your defeat the only sweetness left after the last few days miserable disappointments, but even that minor grace is denied me in these times.

On the positive, No Towers, better characterization, and tanky party? I guess? The least potential, by far, nothing to build on but more Rank, and Stats, the least interesting parts of any build vote, but again, the least harm as far as characterization goes.

I have to consider it, and I hate that I have to consider it.

It lets us split the party, but distinctiveness splinting the party, the Arthurian themes are good, the mechanics are boring, and I just dont trust Aobaru, and that's what it comes down to for me. I honestly think well have to kill him, he screams hidden trap, and if he actually has had a Cursebearer dispatched to stop him, I would side with the Accursed, and give the Geas the benifit of the doubt that he needs to die.

[ ] All Under Heaven

Once and Future I
+ The Opalescent Tower [48 Arete]
The text of this update is the one I like the best, the King on the Hunt is an interesting take on things, and the strength to go for the throat is appealing, I always end up supporting Cut Through options it seems.

That said, I still don't really like either of the advancements for themselves, I liked OaF mostly for the characterization, and especially for the Rune King unlock, this doesn't even unlock OaF 2, and that's a problem, because with this characterization we might not have the qualities necessary to unlock it, urg.

The Tower is all kinds of badness, and while the Hunt is interesting, it still means putting uncountable civilians in danger, for Zam's vanity project, that's probably unfair, but that is how I feel about it at this point.

The upgrade to the Sky has potential, as do the Signs, but I just don't feel any joy about that, it's cost is to much for me to easily bear.

Unfortunately their comes a time when such thoughts must be put away, and the matter considered on its own merits, rather then in comparison to what might have been.

This option combines good immediate power with low cost, moderate potential, even if in an unappealing form, and the best chance to mitigate the consequences of a Tower choice.

This tentatively leads for now, but the margin is narrow as all hell.

[ ] Eye of the Storm

The Tears of Winter: Adorie
+ The Opalescent Tower [50 Arete]
This makes me sad, the Tears are the most interesting option to come from this, thisness, but the combination is terrible.

It has the most potential, but the least chance to mitigate the consequences of this choice, it doubles down on characterizations that I hate, and introduces yet another side character that I'm not fond of.

On the positive side, the advancement aspects that Tears percents are immense, the Praxis mitigation is good, and the only real positive that comes from Chains is the curse mitigation contained in this option, passing on the only silver lining to this farce would make me more sad, but I dont know if that is enough.

The Tower remains the Tower, the esthetics are lovely, it makes the Sky more interesting, and the protection is nice, but beyond that it doesn't move me. The Signs just, eh?

One of the bright sides here is the King of Winter possibilities, that path shows promise and might be a way forward to unlock OaF 2, or it might lock us out entirely as our path further diverges from that of the Forebearer, I just dont know.

It has the least immediate power, the greatest risk of hurting the people around us, and leaves us vulnerable to the Tyrant, and to Ber.

I just don't know, passing on the Tears would hurt, I like potential, but I don't think I can vote to do what this path does.

I'm still thinking, still processing, and I guess I just need more time.

@Orm Embar 661 words for the pile.
 
[X] Zampano

I mean, Hunger already seems pretty embarrassed when people bring up his supposed kingship, so him not caring for such things is perfectly consistent. The recklessness is a bit eh, but what can you do?
 
Will it?

We built Elixir to function without us. Why would we do differently with the Human Sphere? Why Hunger, who was characterized as caring about people, would build a nation that will cause people to suffer in his absence?

You are misreading the implications. Hunger does not give a fuck about abstract concepts of Kingship, but the line is drawn there; he is neither intentionally or carelessly malicious to the people under his power. Why would he give a fuck about Kingship, even, when he spent his entire life against a King, a Tyrant, and then proceeded to lose his life trying to abolish that system of rulership?

That he even accepts it as a mean to power is fairly notable.

All right point taken. Still though the Human sphere is gigantic. Can we really say we can completely erase all the strife going on there? Who's to say we won't miss something in our reforms and things collapse after we leave. We would need someone to watch over the place for us.
 
This is pretty even at this stage, but big Zam hasn't properly voted yet! That will be a big swing, whatever he chooses.
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by BrainInAJar on Aug 12, 2020 at 4:19 AM, finished with 75 posts and 33 votes.
 
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Yeah, let's not forget Adorie also gives us Spare the Innocent if we recruit her. If you care about the innocents, than that's probably the best way to make sure they don't get hurt by Apocryphal-chan.
 
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Ok. So what are our goals/issues? Does anybody have anything to add to this list? Objections to something on this list?

Short Term:
1. Ber(On the way to irrelevance especially if an OAF build wins)
2. Decimator's Affliction(Does one of the Opalescent Tower Builds have a higher probability of us finding another target in time? How much help will Opalescent Tower be in mitigating it the day after it goes online if we fail?)
3. The needs of the Royalists, the conflict against the Lord Protector we kicked off
4. The Progression Cursebearer threat level entity gunning for Aobaru's head


Medium Term:
5. Getting Letrezia out of the Voyaging Realm
6. Getting Ourself out of the Voyaging Realm, assuming we take Aeira and Aobaru with us.


Long Term:

7. Getting a sci-fi society with Rank 10 Giant Robots that the Apocrypha curse is likely to find ways to enhance even if we reach rank 10 under our control.
8. Maintaining a Hunger characterization with reasonable odds of successfully gaining vengeance.
9. Ruling Well

??? Term:

10. Vengeance against the Hidden Ones, ??? term due to the necessity of transcending linear time to engage them.
11. Curse Mitigation, since we can find opportunities for this over time.
 
Apocryphal mitigation not being at least a medium-term concern physically hurts me.

The ??? Term for curse mitigation also means it can be a short term concern. Opportunities show up for us to take and odds are they will keep showing up even into the future. The way I see it exists at all terms simultaneously. That's what I was going for.
 
All right point taken. Still though the Human sphere is gigantic. Can we really say we can completely erase all the strife going on there? Who's to say we won't miss something in our reforms and things collapse after we leave. We would need someone to watch over the place for us.
We did, in fact, invest pretty respectable amount of effort into our companions. We gave Ring to Gisena, we spent arete on children, and now we could empower the rightful princess of this realm so she could oversee the lands that we conquer; a most fitting regent.

There are actually other reasons to vote for Tears, but empowering Adorie does means that we'll have a better ruler here once we leave.
 
I'm simply nowhere near confident in finishing the next Decimation that quickly. 2 days. That's an insanely short timeframe to do it in, even if we can teleport directly to the location. And no, I don't consider robbing countless people of even a few days in their lives acceptable unless there are really important things at stake or we have no other choice.

Mind, having chosen Chains, an argument could be made that we need all the potential we can get, so I won't be that salty if Eye wins. But King and Court isn't without its own advantages in that department - not only will it empower Aobaru significantly, it will also make Geas completion far more difficult for the enemy Cursebearer, as they typically include things like 'slain beyond the possibility of recovery' and we'll have the option to resurrect Aobaru with this.
 
Our geas-given task is to rule the human sphere, which is only a couple thousand worlds, for 50 years

Aobaru's task is to restore the entire Voyaging realm. Keep in mind that the voyaging realm is an area at least the size of the milky way galaxy that is entirely filled with stuff.

Depending on what fixing the Voyaging realm actually involves Aobaru's task is probably orders of magnitude harder than our own. I think he may be the real protagonist here.
 
A thought that Prospalz thought of in the discord but is too tired to effortpost about: the title [King of Winter] stands to be sort of a Trinity of its own, since it seems to require three EFBs (Tower, Tears, and OAF), each for a different artifact (albeit, one of them is the artifact). Trinity is cool, so that may be something worth considering.
 
We did, in fact, invest pretty respectable amount of effort into our companions. We gave Ring to Gisena, we spent arete on children, and now we could empower the rightful princess of this realm so she could oversee the lands that we conquer; a most fitting regent.

There are actually other reasons to vote for Tears, but empowering Adorie does means that we'll have a better ruler here once we leave.

You know what okay. Getting Adorie may help resolve all of these moral debates.

[X] Eye of the Storm
 
It's another bit of pure speculation, but as the option with the highest long-term potential and with the most esoteric tendency, Eye of the Storm seems like the best step towards being able to revive other people who aren't Hunger.
 
the snows of winter clasped to the endless sky
accompanied by its final scion as well
The plot thickens! It also occurred to me that Aurelia, who Adorie shares colors with, was also called the Twilight's Majesty, so maybe she's the source of the Evening Sky's majesty domain? No idea how that would happen, but everything is possible in the crazy lands of EFB AU.

Edit: Hmm, actually, Aurelia fits Evening Sky's themes really well. Both the insane Cha and the Protection it grants. It misses her excellence, but you can't have everything.
 
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I prefer All under Heaven if we worried about innocent people.

Use 1 day to kill Lord Protector and his minion and another day to find mitigation.

A bit of speed run but I think it is doable.
 
Ultimately, I am much more amenable to AUH than to K&C, so if people find EotS less palatable than K&C, I'm willing to compromise. But I also really do think that EotS is the best option overall, even if it is also the one that takes on the most short term risk.
 
I'll also add that with our current arete generation rate, it is basically completely impossible to come out of a heated two-days long debate with less than 10 arete.

At this rate of arete generation, Winter King, this new Trinity-tier thing, is pretty much two updates away. We come out of this vote with Tears+Tower, we vote for activity that gives us picks, we pick up OaF. Bam, done.

We also could get ADS pretty much instantly I suppose. Pretty much any course of actions going from hereon onward should be aware of the resources avalible.

But seriously tho. Tears+Tower is basically in the same position that Elixir was back then; a lot of it's "potential" is pretty much immediate power playing coy.
 
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I find myself on untrod shores, all the riches in the world before me, but only ashes on my lips.

Well then, let there be an End to this at least.

I can't in good conscious vote to spend 50 Arete on two options without any potential for real growth, not with the threat of our recently acquired Chains hanging over us, and the fact that this allows me to secretly indulge my Aobaru conspiracy theories, is entirely irrelevant, truly.

The power inherent in Rank is not enough, and our Stats can't carry us past this trial, we need breadth of capacity, as well as depth, and we will not find that here.

That disqualifies the Court for me, though it saddens me to say it is my second choice.

I can't vote for Storm either, and that hurts, a lot, it just doesn't have the power to clean up after the mess the Tower makes, it might be able to find a target in time, it might be able to get there in time, but I have no confidence that it can complete the Hunt in time, not with only the Tower to draw on, as the potential from Tears is just that, potential.

We would need Picks, Arete, and most importantly, Time, that we just dont have, to allow it to scale us past this point of horror.

This is the situation we find ourselves in, Court relies entirely on Rank, Stats, and the Party to meet the challenge posed by a true Progression type enemy, and the Task set before the party by our choice, and I don't believe that is enough.

The Storm promises the power to face the challenges we will face, but not the ones spawned by its own conception, nor perhaps by those that follow in our wake, and doubling down on this toxic characterization is just untenable.

Regardless of how much I love Tears, I can not vote for this option, it is eliminated, entirely.

[X] All Under Heaven

This option is a good mix of Power now, and potential later, the characterization holds the best of what Chains has forced on us, without falling further into excess.

I have to hope this will be enough, that Hunger can continue to be as good as this version of him thinks he is, and that he can pull this off, or all hope dies here.

I will hold to some principle at least, know this Storm voters, though in a future that never was I stood proudly with you, I will shun every honeyed word offered by thee hence forth.

The Court may yet be able to sway me, but for now, this is the path before me, may god forgive me for my steps, and may he lead us all through this valley full of shadows.

@Orm Embar 483 words, my we choke upon them.
 
Also, I feel it bears reiterating, the Voyaging Realm is truly massive, in a way which goes beyond human intuition. Even considering the possibility that our Decimator range has increased by more than ten orders of magnitude, there is absolutely room for us to be well clear of Nilfel, and of the lands of myth as a whole, and probably away from any civilization at all.

We don't need to finish the hunt in two days. We just need to get to a safe distance.
 
Issue with AUH is that it's just a bad compromise. If you don't want tower, K&C is your jam, whereas EOTS works better since Tears are way better when dealing with Chains.

So either don't get Tower or commit fully. AUH is just too halfassed.
 
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