[X] Zampano

Wow, double EFB is the height of luxury. So this is what the 1% lives like.

I still like Companions with Chains, because it seems like the strongest Hybrid type available that naturally powers up Aobaru, thus making things easier. I guess I'll wait to see what other people think.
 
Hunger's philosophy of Rule: Who Dares, Wins

Hunger does not see kingship or official station as imparting any especial duties towards the ruled; rather, he continues to be propelled by his existing values, without any additional loyalty to his subjects beyond those dignities he would extend to any populace. This is not to say he is a demanding taskmaster, or that he sees people themselves as only means to an end; merely that he sees the position of King as no different to his powers derived from Blade or Mantle - tools of purpose that exist to enact his designs.

Caring about a group of people because they insisted on naming you king is a rather silly proposition. Why should a man born in a democracy respect monarchy? For that matter, the very concept of the nation state is rather modem, dating back only to the treaty of Westphalia. The whole thing is nonsense.

Borders and nations may be figments of the imagination, but concepts like human rights are universal, existing above and outside of any merely national concern. The simple "us vs them" mentality held by the Forebear and others is unsuited to an infinite universe. Morals must be both flexible and universal or they will prove utterly insufficient to the task of evaluating what the 'correct' decision is in any particular circumstance.

He is opportunistic and may frequently do what is best for the world or for those he cares about (including himself) rather than what is best for the nation.

Pragmatism is a necessary virtue for the weak, and as long as the Hidden Ones remain Hunger remains weak.

He has a (perhaps justifiably) high opinion of his ability to navigate dangers, even in the face of changing circumstances. His greatest strengths as a ruler are his adaptability and cool under fire; his greatest weaknesses are his recklessness and greed. The bold and capricious temperament of a King who, with two days left on the clock, risks the well-being of billions to seize an opportunity - confident in his ability to neutralize the threat in the time he has remaining.

His reckless nature and greed are both reflections of the thread and very appropriate given our votes. Given how fun this is to read I'm not certain I want to change anything about this.
 
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If anyone wants an in depth discussion on what makes a good king refer to episode 11 of Fate/Zero. You have 3 different philosophies being argued against each other.
A king of the people does not win
That scene really should not be taken out of character context; those were people talking, not ideologies. Participants had interests in demoralizing and putting down the competitors, not having a good faith debate on merits of rule.

So called "winner" of that debate conveniently ignored that his empire and all of his oh-so-treasured friends ended up in the ditch, killing each other.

One man verbally styling on someone once does not prove his ideology superior, lol
 
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his greatest weaknesses are his recklessness and greed. The bold and capricious temperament of a King who, with two days left on the clock, risks the well-being of billions to seize an opportunity - confident in his ability to neutralize the threat in the time he has remaining.

It's largely this bit of characterization that is so hard for me to empathize with. Whatever you say about his lack of special feeling towards the people he willingly takes on the duty of ruling, whether accepting putting their safety, propserity, ect in your hands means you have any special obligations to them above a normal person then any random joe would, risking the well being of billions when it's unneccesarry because the man thinks he's just that good is fairly fucked up and kind of ruins any egalitarian or internationalist feeling people seem to be calling on.
 
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Chains and the resulting characterization is so disgusting, I can't even. All my hype has been burnt away in the course of one vote and left only a miserable pile of SALT in its wake. RIP Hero Hunger, consumed by the truly infinite greed and gluttony of this thread. I guess people just really loved Nameless.

Where do you see the comparison to Nameless? "Who dares wins" is literally the opposite of Nameless personality. He almost always went minimum risk, achieving victory by scamming and working smarter, not harder so he could slack off. Nameless gave practically zero shits for most things not immediately relevant to his survival and wellbeing.
 
[X] Eye of the Storm

Greed is necessary in order to continue scaling.

The charisma granted by the tower, the support of the princess, and the dislike of the Tyrant should be sufficient to rally the royalists. Our own personal combat power is pretty extraordinary; being able to personally defeat an entire nation in combat should not and never be necessary in order to perform a coup.

I see the Decimation as only a moderate concern.
 
Interesting argument strategy to bring up Fate and not back the Arthur option...

Yeah, we should really be more like the self proclaimed tyrant who made war his hobby for the sake of it or the loathsome prick who later goes on to threaten Saber with rape because he feels entitled to her by his station :V
 
Where do you see the comparison to Nameless? "Who dares wins" is literally the opposite of Nameless personality. He almost always went minimum risk, achieving victory by scamming and working smarter, not harder so he could slack off. Nameless gave practically zero shits for most things not immediately relevant to his survival and wellbeing.
Yeah, Hunger on the other hand is an hero, he put his life on the line without hesitation to save people and he is an massive try hard at everything he does...he is not going to stop doing that.

Why should one innocent life matter more than another? True Heroism cares nothing about something as useless as the idea of nation-states!
 
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Yeah, Hunger on the other hand is an hero, he put his life on the line without hesitation to save people and he is an massive try hard at everything he does..

Why should one innocent life matter more than another? True Heroism cares nothing about something as useless as the idea of nation-states!


his greatest weaknesses are his recklessness and greed. The bold and capricious temperament of a King who, with two days left on the clock, risks the well-being of billions to seize an opportunity - confident in his ability to neutralize the threat in the time he has remaining.

Select your Advancements. The first option will de-emphasize this characterization, the middle option will keep it as-is, and the last option will emphasize it.

Do I have to be a nationalist to find this be somewhat less then True Heroism TM or a just little callous about those innocent lives
 
Do remember that Hunger's initial goal was to eradicate monarchy and set up democracy. Him not caring about kingship and noblesse oblige is par of course.
 
Yeah, we should really be more like the self proclaimed tyrant who made war his hobby for the sake of it or the loathsome prick who later goes on to threaten Saber with rape because he feels entitled to her by his station :V

And yet the rule of Iskandar is the most in line with what we're doing. We will lead the Human Sphere to greatness and the when we leave it'll collapse. I see little way to stop this and honestly why should we? Ruling ourselves and trying to make everything better for everyone will stop mattering once we're gone. Better to delegate the task to others. We are not a king we are a hero. We set an ideal for people to aspire to and if they can't live up to it then they were never worthy in the first place.
 
Do I have to be a nationalist to find this be somewhat less then True Heroism TM or a just little callous about those innocent lives
He's not callous! Just very confident like usual! He can totally do it, he just has to give his maximum effort, I believe in him and us!
 
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And yet the rule of Iskandar is the most in line with what we're doing. We will lead the Human Sphere to greatness and the when we leave it'll collapse. I see little way to stop this and honestly why should we? Ruling ourselves and trying to make everything better for everyone will stop mattering once we're gone. Better to delegate the task to others. We are not a king we are a hero. We set an ideal for people to aspire to and if they can't live up to it then they were never worthy in the first place.

No, it won't stop mattering once we're gone because believe it or not, trillions of people will still have to live with the aftermath. Countless people have managed to create governments that persisted, long, long after their departure from this world. This is a bit of a far cry from the question of whether or not he should delegate.

I don't think it's appropriate to sit their and talk about heroism and idealism on one hand, and then say said shouldn't care about trillions of lives they upended in conquest by not even bothering to set up a system that doesn't immediately collapse into mass death the moment we're gone.

He's not callous! Just very confident like usual! He can totally do it, he just has to give his maximum effort, I believe in him and us!

No, he's explicitly overconfident, his greatest weakness is literally his recklessness, doing things without thinking or caring about the consequences of an action. Like say, risking the livlihoods of billions and dipping out during the early part or soon after a civil war you helped start because you're arrogant enough to think you're so hot shit nothing you could ever backfire.

Their's no good reason to inflict that sort of reckless disregard on these people when we can easily choose a safer option.
 
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And yet the rule of Iskandar is the most in line with what we're doing. We will lead the Human Sphere to greatness and the when we leave it'll collapse.
Will it?

We built Elixir to function without us. Why would we do differently with the Human Sphere? Why Hunger, who was characterized as caring about people, would build a nation that will cause people to suffer in his absence?

You are misreading the implications. Hunger does not give a fuck about abstract concepts of Kingship, but the line is drawn there; he is neither intentionally or carelessly malicious to the people under his power. Why would he give a fuck about Kingship, even, when he spent his entire life against a King, a Tyrant, and then proceeded to lose his life trying to abolish that system of rulership?

That he even accepts it as a mean to power is fairly notable.
 
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1432 Word analysis/opinion

[X] King and Court


Well... I would honestly prefer a Companions + Tears - Gisena vote but I'll be going with this vote for now. It does cost slightly more arete that the other options, but I like the idea of Hunger simultaneously taking up the seriousness and responsibility of a monarch while also allowing the people around him to play a part in putting forth the interests of the people they lead.

I don't really like the current willingness Hunger has towards risking the lives of billions of people (as described in Rihaku's post at least.)

Furthermore, OaF has been a serious sore point for this thread for many moons, so I would rather allow at least some of SORD's anger to be abated on the rock of the forebear if possible.

Hunger's philosophy of Rule: Who Dares, Wins ( Yeah I don't like this) I would rather Hunger's philosophy be something like: A Band of Brothers stands as tall as the Weakest Link (Or something close to that)

This option is essentially the most "Cut Through" option on the table. And I think in this scenario being straightforward is probably our best shot at putting together something successful to carry us into the next week or so. Is this the option that stops Hunger from healing his Lung and whatnot thought? Because that's certainly something I don't like.

TLDR: BEEEEEG STATS, BEEEG RANK, BEEEEG COMPANIONS
This build is the most straightforwardly powerful while also providing solid benefits across our party. It doesn't seem to have any painful downsides unlike the other options which have thematic implications and either focus in on Hunger or one of the Companions without lifting up the party as a whole. It literally adds to every single stat we have, which would presumably include intelligence. So it isn't exactly lacking there when compared to Eye of The Storm.

Hunger has a family, and I want to protect ALL their smiles not just one!

Hunger's philosophy of Rule: Who Dares, Wins

[ ] King and Court

Once and Future I
+ Companions of the King [53 Arete].

If Aobaru is the chosen of myth, then let it be as he said. Who can challenge the King in the strength of his court? The Forebear's mantle looms in the eyes of his foes as a portent of doom inescapable, but to his allies it is the aegis under which all their peoples shelter. Manifold are his glories, and their slightest refraction sufficient to raise up champions among men.

Raises your Rank and immediately grants elevated Rank scaling with your own to your trusted allies... a powerful combination that allows for far greater scope of action across the cosmic chessboard of the Voyaging Realm. As this option fully intends to mitigate the Decimator's Affliction by destroying the Tower, both the strengths and weaknesses of the chosen characterization will be diminished. Good synergy with Once and Future; an additional +40% All Stats works well with +++++All Stats.

*Greatly improves the durability and effectiveness of all your party members
*Once and Future offers immense power, but your Rank will overshoot your stats, meaning that enemies your peer in Rank will tend to have higher stats - an Armament all full power has not only tremendous Rank but also incredible stats backed by the greatest bio-engineering that the Foremost could achieve at scale. They are also armed to the teeth with strategic-level weaponry appropriate to a star-faring civilization of ten thousand systems.
*Having +40% All Stats would help greatly with that.
*An additional +80% Rank gain would augment your future Progression. Rank will continue to be an uphill climb and Hunger needs all the multipliers he can get to maintain some semblance of rapid advance into the High Ranks.

While this option is the most expensive I do believe it should be completely worth it becasue it provides immediate abilities that not only protect our friends and allow them to close the gap a little bit, but utterly obliviates Bearic in terms of power so we're less likely to be worried about him when the time comes. Furthermore, it gives all of our companions including Aobaru a bit of a power-up and safety net

I would like to de-emphasize Hunger's recklessness, achieve some solid short-mid term power goals, and set the stage for a more equitable and considerate Hunger than the other two options represent overall.

[] Eye of the Storm

The Tears of Winter: Adorie
+ The Opalescent Tower [50 Arete]

HOWEVER, the sheer potential in the long run based on simply having another companion and 1/4th Praxis exhaustion mitigation is extremely valuable. While this option is weaker from a total Stats and Rank standpoint it does allow a more hands off approach to Rulership than the other two options. Unfortunately it makes Hunger greedier and the thread is already pretty greedy on its own so I'm not super gung-ho about this option at first glance.

The main problems here are that it will rely on the thread picking up on the best progression options so we aren't steam-rolled by whatever threat Aobaru is supposed to face as the Chosen One.

*Grants increased INT, Apocryphal mitigation, and reduced Praxis exertion alongside the benefits to general capability.
*Wielding both the Jewels and the Fortress of House Mirellyian, the snows of winter clasped to the endless sky, Hunger will gain the Title [King of Winter] upon completing Once and Future I.
*Naturally he must be accompanied by its final scion as well. It would be rather unkind to take possession of her Artifacts without looking out for her well-being.
*Recruits Adorie Mirellyian as a companion. She is an exceptionally capable administrator, orator, lore-master and vocalist, and would be happy to run your territories for you or help you research further Empyreal Signs.

These are the positives for me. It provides a thematic Title which will probably give us more Rank, adds a very competent civil servant directly to our deck, and allows for some nice kingdom/polity building and longer term INT and training benefits. Overall, a solid build and something I would like, however I do think Gisena might be a better fit for the artifact but that's just my opinion.

TLDR: FANTASTIC LONG TERM TRAINING P R A X I S, also allows for more possibilities when we need to use Praxis more often, gives us another family member :), mitigates Apocryphal and allows us more room to breath, and gives us a whole ruling family in direct connection to ourselves. This option most visibly ties the Real of Myth to us in a way that will likely echo across the Voyaging Realm. So it certainly has benefits. I just don't think these are things we can't simply gain overtime with social votes and actually building a relationship with the princess as we have with other characters. (Of course this assumes the thread will put time into doing that).




[ ] All Under Heaven

Once and Future I
+ The Opalescent Tower [48 Arete]


I DO NOT like this option for two reasons. It focuses almost exclusively on Hunger, and it denies Hunger the mitigation he was seeking in the first place. That just seems really frustrating and I don't want to have to race against time to defeat/mitigate Decimator when we literally came here to do that. Since Chains is something we now have to take into consideration i don't think we want to be dealing with Ber, Aobaru's Nemesis Escalation, and the decimation all at one time with a possible Apocryphal Onslaught in the wings as well. Generally speaking I think I can say that I'll be looking for the smallest death chance and least stressful options overall as my main goal. I mean, I love a good death chance in appropriate scenarios but i certainly don't want them constantly when we don't have to have them.

*Great immediate power and potential. Spends the least Arete of the options, potentially leaving room for All-Defeating Stance in the near or medium future.
*A powerful hybrid build that combines Rank with social and defensive stats.
*Grants access to Empyreal Signs which offer potent magical effects.
*Though he only has two days to find a solution, Hunger has immense power with which to pursue the task. Still, he will need to find a solution quickly, Rank alone is unlikely to suffice. The Empyreal Signs can overcome the tyranny of distance in the Voyaging Realm, but are unlikely to offer a direct solution to the requirements of the Huntress' Moon.
*Overwhelming power and majesty will allow Hunger a realistic chance to deal with the Lord Protector directly, if he so chooses.
*You should really get Iridescence to take advantage of those Evening Sky Protection +s.


This option does provide some very good power increases and doesn't take as much of a gamble as Eye of the Storm does. It provides rank, serious magical effects at our level, T E L E P O R T A T I O N in a way, grants M A J E S T Y and P O W E R, and puts us on a path to get some other small but synergistic options like Iridescence.
Unfortunately this option gives us TWO DAYS to figure out some mitigation, which I don't like at all. Also the characterization falls flat for me. I really would love some more upgrades for Evening Sky, but not at the cost of other opportunities and an increase in thread pressure to make snap decisions. Being cool under pressure is fantastic, but I would rather just not have such pressure if I can help it.
TLDR: MAGIC, T E LE P O R T, THICC PROTECTION AND SOCIAL
This option has variety and magic at the cost of possible stressors.



Ultimately I'm probably going to stick with King And Court unless I get convinced that the character consequences of the other options won't be as bad, or if I can be convinced to believe that the other options will be navigated in a synergistic and productive manner as everyone in the thread jockeys for their own paths forward with these options. The first option just lays a lot of arguments to rest while also setting the groundwork for a Hunger that is ready to enter the Human Sphere, or at least pretty close.
 
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Now, that chains has won, we might want to get Apocryphal mitigation here, it will probably be best for our survival in the long run. If we are going to take risk, might as well make it worth it.

Tears + Tower is also probably the best for preparing for the Enemy Cursebearer. Potential it offers might make all the difference.

Get Once and Future next for King of Winter and work on Praxis, get good divination and teleportation through Signs and I think we have an pretty good chance against an Cursebearer.
 
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