There's Happily Ever After, which attempts to max out the Protaganist's welfare, albeit at the expense of personal power. Consider it the antithesis of the hyperexponential growth of the Progression type. The Accursed, at least to appearances, approves of the option that doesn't max out personal power.
 
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I was foolish again, just as my initial plan in EFB to be an Elven Summoned Thrice Gate Hero, I picked all potential and no safeguards for the here now. I hate to say it, but if Rihaku is warning so strongly against it taking Progression and Sword together is a terrible plan.

But I have seen the light, the greatest of the Remittances is actually Three Wishes. Why, you may ask? At the beginning we can use the lesser to ask for Power and the least to have time to grow into it. The True can save us if we need it to or we can hopefully impress the Accursed enough that we can proactively use the True Wish and get something incredible in return.

And they recharge, and because the wishes are based on out capabilities they scale. If we are level 1,000 we can get much more done in a year than we can starting out.

Also the final benefit, we can turn in Lesser Remittances for the Accursed's favor. With Three Wishes that could be incredibly strong. If he likes us he might offer more and view our requests favorably, as well as be easier to impress.

[X] Plan I Dream of Vengeance
-[X] Vengeance
-[X] The Geas of Indenture
-[X] The Decimator's Affliction
-[X] Doom of the Tyrant
-[X] The Apocryphal Curse
-[X] Three Wishes
 
So you're going to take an army of abused citizens led by ambitious traitors to create an age of... peace?
Bruh, you just described every independence movement ever.
You can't pay soldiers with peace, they'll need their reward for risking their lives. The factions they formed during the war don't disappear either. Decadence can hold back the internal conflict for a time, but fundamentally it's a perfect design for civil war.
Oh but you can pay soldiers with money, land and other things you can seize from your enemies. After you gain control of the state, you just pay them normally, and hey, they and their children have actual rights now, and an opportunity to rise from their social class. Pretty good, If I say so myself.

And for the factions, that's what purges are for. Revolutions are a violent business, don't you know?

You can't a perfect society out of a medieval one, hell, maybe out of no society. But you can make one better.

Vengeance is explicitly not about helping the world and its definitely not about the protagonist's wellfare. If you care about either of those things, you should choose Freedom. Vengeance is about murdering the gods of the world, no matter the cost. Just look at Baenlixnaire. He waited thousands upon thousands of years for his time to come and when it did, he burned his very soul to arm the scion of his mortal enemy, all due to his rage against the Fates. He certainly didn't throw his life away.
IC motivation =/= OOC motivations. Of course I want to kill the hidden masters, but this is not a zero-sum game. I am allowed to place a non-zero amount of value in the mental health of the Hero. Similarly, even if the Hero might not care about Justice and helping his world, I can. It's also, y'know, what I want to read. For these lesser considerations, I prefer Sword.
 
IC motivation =/= OOC motivations. Of course I want to kill the hidden masters, but this is not a zero-sum game. I am allowed to place a non-zero amount of value in the mental health of the Hero. Similarly, even if the Hero might not care about Justice and helping his world, I can. It's also, y'know, what I want to read. For these lesser considerations, I prefer Sword.

If you care about the mental health of the hero, forcing him to burn his soul up as fast as possible through the Praxis when there are alternatives readily available is probably not the way to go. Similarly, helping the world and choosing the Decimator's Affliction don't seem particularly compatible and while you can say that mitigation is available, that mitigation has an explicit tax in time and effort necessary to use. And of course not mitigating it is hardly going to help the Hero's mental health either.
 
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The challenges involved with the Apocryphal will scale to your power, which still makes the various forms of plot armour better at dealing with them than hoping to speedrun your Vengeance before the Curse procs and kills you.
Meaning that your power has no bearing on Apocryphal curse, as it would always be relevant to you. On the other hand, needing more time means more Apocrypha procs.
 
Meaning that your power has no bearing on Apocryphal curse, as it would always be relevant to you. On the other hand, needing more time means more Apocrypha procs.

Your power does not but the Accursed's certainly does, as does being able to get a do over via timetravel.
 
If you care about the mental health of the hero, forcing him to burn him soul up as fast as possible through the Praxis when there are alternatives readily available is probably not the way to go. Similarly, helping the world and choosing the Decimator's Affliction don't seem particularly compatible and while you can say that mitigation is available, that mitigation has an explicit tax in time and effort necessary to use. And of course not mitigating it is hardly going to help the Hero's mental health either.
Huh? As far as I know, the Praxis doesn't literally burn people's souls. Hell, Rihaku even confirmed that we are especially suited to it. How is it harsher than other ways we'd pursue power?

About Decimator, I'm not going to say the leading plan is perfect. And saying that the stress of mitigating it would be more than the stress of the increased time we'd take to kill the masters is a purely subjective judgement that further depends on our choices besides. Get Rihaku to say that and I'd believe it.
 
I think I'm going to go for @Skelm's plan as a named plan, Decimation and an inability to abide the possibility of superiors seems too much. We're the Rihakuverse's equivalent to a Captain Planet Villain.

[X]Plan Bassy Horror Story
-[X] Vengeance
-[X] Doom of Lunacy
-[X] Plenary Brand
-[X] The King's Scepter


Slayers Testament from Doom 2016, seeing some symbolic parallels here:

In the first age, in the first battle, when the shadows first lengthened, one stood. Burned by the embers of Armageddon, his soul blistered by the fires of Hell and tainted beyond ascension, he chose the path of perpetual torment. In his ravenous hatred he found no peace; and with boiling blood he scoured the Umbral Plains seeking vengeance against the dark lords who had wronged him. He wore the crown of the Night Sentinels, and those that tasted the bite of his sword named him... the Doom Slayer.

Tempered by the fires of Hell, his iron will remained steadfast through the passage that preys upon the weak. For he alone was the Hell Walker, the Unchained Predator, who sought retribution in all quarters, dark and light, fire and ice, in the beginning and the end, and he hunted the slaves of Doom with barbarous cruelty; for he passed through the divide as none but demon had before.

And in his conquest against the blackened souls of the doomed, his prowess was shown. In his crusade, the seraphim bestowed upon him terrible power and speed, and with his might he crushed the obsidian pillars of the Blood Temples. He set forth without pity upon the beasts of the nine circles. Unbreakable, incorruptible, unyielding, the Doom Slayer sought to end the dominion of the dark realm

The age of his reckoning was uncounted. The scribes carved his name deep in the tablets of Hell across eons, and each battle etched terror in the hearts of the demons. They knew he would come, as he always had, as he always will, to feast on the blood of the wicked. For he alone could draw strength from his fallen foes, and ever his power grew, swift and unrelenting.
 
Happily Ever After:
* Solves all the immediate problems of the Hero (3 Wishes), does not add (major) new problems for the Hero. Slumber + Doom of Lunacy are pretty crap for powergaming, but are actually very comfy options for most people. I know I'd be fine with those curses even without a Remittance.
* I know that power is awesome, but a low amount of power, relatively speaking, can be highly interesting anyway. Hyperexponential growth isn't really great for a quest, since we constantly outscale all enemies ala Thrice Great (except on a multiversal scale), ensuring that all companions have massive difficulties trying to keep up, if at all.
* Even 75% of a Combat Class Cursebearer's power is pretty deadly. We'd be, like, able to raze subcontinents to ash if desired.

Also, in this IRL environment I'd quite like to read a comfy quest of maximum relaxation.

From my experience with quests so far,, power just reflects what sort of enemies and challenges you face, and ultimately to the reader, is there a significant difference between ruling over 1 billion people as compared to, say, 1 quadrillion people? In fact past a certain point the numbers simply become more and more meaningless. Less is more. A lower level of power ensures that mortals remain relatively relevant to us. No pressure to grind power endlessly for victory, which is what we have done in most of Rihaku's other quests.

Let's try this option and shee how it goes, eh?

With regards to the Praxis, I'll say this -
It's most suitable for those who are exceptionally capable of hard work and willing to spend selfhood for power. Granted the hero is quite good at this, but his past experiences in that very vein have left him a broken shadow of a man. Is that really the well he would return to when given an actual choice?
Huh? As far as I know, the Praxis doesn't literally burn people's souls. Hell, Rihaku even confirmed that we are especially suited to it. How is it harsher than other ways we'd pursue power?

About Decimator, I'm not going to say the leading plan is perfect. And saying that the stress of mitigating it would be more than the stress of the increased time we'd take to kill the masters is a purely subjective judgement that further depends on our choices besides. Get Rihaku to say that and I'd believe it.
Well, it's true that we are well suited to it, but is it healthy? I don't think so.. It's basically a continuation of the Hero's journey so far, in nearly all regards.
 
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Well, it's true that we are well suited to it, but is it healthy? I don't think so..
Vengeance isn't healthy. Surprisingly, that only makes me care about his instability more, not less. And again, I think killing the masters as early as possible is something we should aspire in it of itself.

Besides, I don't think any true path to power will be a cakewalk, even with Progression. It is harsh, not harsher.
 
I haven't calculated to be sure, but I think you guys either have earned or are close to earning at least 1 additional Lesser Remittance. You may assume you have an extra Lesser pick for whichever build you end up using!
 
I haven't calculated to be sure, but I think you guys either have earned or are close to earning at least 1 additional Lesser Remittance. You may assume you have an extra Lesser pick for whichever build you end up using!
1) Pick Vengeance + Sword
2) Pick Gisena as Lesser Remittance
3) Somehow survive World #1 (presumably the Nullity Sorceress would be somewhat powerful, right...?)
4) Hero and Gisena's Excellent Adventure

i'm a sucker for broody hero + genki girls ok don't @ me
 
1) Pick Vengeance + Sword
2) Pick Gisena as Lesser Remittance
3) Somehow survive World #1 (presumably the Nullity Sorceress would be somewhat powerful, right...?)
4) Hero and Gisena's Excellent Adventure

i'm a sucker for broody hero + genki girls ok don't @ me
Doesn't the companion section have an explicit reminder that companions aren't gonna be carrying us through the early game?
The Apocryphal curse makes early Vengeance incredibly dangerous without immediate personal power.
 
I feel one of the metaflaws of Progression+Praxis is the split in writing attention. Progression already lets one get anything, combining it with the Praxis just leads to combinatorial explosion ala Thrice Great.

I would prefer 3 Wishes with it, use one of the wishes to recover the Hero to his Apex (also healing his wounds conveniently).
 
Doesn't the companion section have an explicit reminder that companions aren't gonna be carrying us through the early game?
The Apocryphal curse makes early Vengeance incredibly dangerous without immediate personal power.
It's definitely risky. My reasons for wanting such regardless:
1) The Hero, while diminished, probably has a wealth of combat experience. This may let him avoid danger and perhaps even repel minor enemies.
2) While Companions won't be able to hard carry through the early game, they should have some quantity of power that may at least allow us to disengage from hostile confrontation. E.g. Gisena's Nullity can weaken enemies' powers.
3) I'm greedy and want both Praxis and Progression. I was interested in Praxis when it was offered in AST, and missed the voting for it then. I'm not going to give up this chance now!
 
Remember the Hero is pretty injured right now. And Praxis explicitly does not do healing well.

I'm thinking we try and use the Lesser Wish to get some kind of superpower that would allow us to heal but would also help later. Then use the least Wish to get back to the Hero's peak and then progress past it.
 
Huh.

Can True Wish remove one of the Curses we suffer under, or upgrade us from Combat Class to Progression in the future? That would make it a superior option in the unlikely and extreme long run.
 
Fanwork#1383 Words

So let's start this game with a brief look into a (hopefully) impossible future! It's mainly brief because this combination doesn't encourage long-term survivability (or even short-term), but YOLO, right?

Omake: "Ultimate Vengeance Waifu Quest"

Life as a guard was a pretty sweet gig in a city like the Golden Capital, Sam believed.

Despite the rumors about its prosperity its citizens didn't shit gold. Nonetheless, it was the trade center of the Eternal Empire, and that brought a certain amount of wealth with it. As a connection point for the vast majority of the imperial portal network, a huge river of resources flowed through its veins every day, so it shouldn't be surprising the guards' pay was proportionally significant.

Unlike the cities on the fringes of the Empire, there were no worries about sudden monster tides or barbarian invasions. The surrounding Dungeons were regularly cleaned by plucky adventurers, and the last time an insane mage tried to blow up the city for some perceived slight had been... maybe a decade ago?

He'd been hired soon after, and his colleagues didn't like to talk about it for whatever reason. There had been no such incidents during his career so far, - even the worst crimes he had had to deal with so far were of a more mundane bent, - so Sam suspected the story was part of the usual hazing for newbies.

Who would be insane enough to go attack the Empire's heart anyway?

So yes, Sam didn't expected his shift as a gate guard to be any different from the usual monotony. The only thing disturbing that boredom were his partner's stories about his former adventurer life. Say what you will about that chatterbox, but Pete's unending optimism and open friendliness had a way of brightening up the day.

"-and then I shot him in the knee," Pete grinned, winking at a farmgirl as her father filled out the forms. The girl blushed prettily, and Sam once more felt a pang of envy at his companion's easy charisma. "I didn't quite think it through, I guess, because the walking flamethrower immediately targeted me, but little did he know!.."

Still, Sam had heard the story countless times before, so he found his attention wandering. That was why he was the first to see the next visitors barge in.

They were a colorful bunch, a haggard man accompanied by three beautiful women, - though calling one of them beautiful was like calling the Emperor rich, it hardly did anything to encapsulate the sheer magnificence of her presence. They were dressed in wildly different attire and carrying items of obviously magical nature. In a corner of his mind, Sam noted that the gate alarms were blaring.

It was difficult to pay that any attention though. Because the man...

He had been a Hero once upon a time, a bonfire that had burned with the strength of a thousand suns. He had failed time and again, lost everything he cared about, but he hadn't given up till the very end. Now there was none of that fire left, the spark snuffed out only to leave a hungering black hole that desired to devour all of Creation, the infinite expanse of countless realities a mere appetizer before his endless greed.

The thin threads of his Curses were holding him back from realizing his incredible potential, but that would not matter to mere mortals. With every second, every act, every passing thought he grew ever stronger, standing as far above the greatest human genius as the sky was above a gnat.

No laws of man or god would find purchase on this man's mind, for his will would not tolerate any authority above his own anymore. Cursed the fallen hero was, but the Favor of @#!$# shone upon him, and that was all the legitimacy he needed. The magic he wielded knew no limits and imposed its own rules upon reality, as befitting of a Tyrant like him.

And this wasn't even his Final Form!


"Are you the-"

"No, I'm not the Antichrist or whatever your local equivalent is," the walking apocalypse replied surly. "No wonder the Accursed avoids people like the plague if that's how everyone reacts."

"You can't blame him, darling," the supernaturally beautiful elf at the side of the Incarnate Evil frowned. Sam would have probably hopelessly fallen in love at first sight, if he could drag even a iota of attention away from the Inevitable End Of All Things right next to her. "Even my own spiritual perfection fails to resists some of those effects."

"Hmph," a raven-haired woman in a black-and-red uniform snorted contemptuously. "Sir is merely showing the proper bearing befitting of his station as a world-conquering Ty- Hero."

"Krista," the Hole in the World said tiredly. "You're not doing me any favors with this."

"Naturally, my liege," she nodded seriously. "Otherwise I would have to demand payment for my services, which would be an affront to everything an Evil Overlord's Lieutenant stands for!"

"When I got an offer to go on a heroic adventure, this is not what I imagined," the last woman complained. She was a blond girl that looked the most normal of them all, which would have immediately made Sam suspicious. If he could think about anything but his life streaming away into the hungry maw of Death, that is.

"Maybe next time someone offers you ultimate power in return for all-powerful Curses," Krista added dryly, "you should hesitate before picking all of them?"

An angry vein seemed to pop on the man's forehead.

"Thank you for your very unhelpful advice, Krista," the man squeezed out through gritted teeth, ignoring her as she nodded contentedly. "Can we just get this over with? I'd like to proceed into the city and buy all we need so that I don't have to see these people anytime soon."

"Now that's unfair, darling," the elf girl shook her head, scattering her cherry-blond hair in a very distracting manner. "They aren't so bad. They even had the good sense to name their city after me!"

"You," the blond girl pointed at the elf, "are the most charming egotist I've ever met, Aurelia, but you need to learn that not everything is about you."

"But I'm the Hero's Fated Companion?" Auerlia - what a beautiful name - tilted her head in confusion. "The only way I could be more important would be if I was the Heroine herself. But," she looked at the Dark Lord To End All Dark Lords and shook her head gently, "I think I'll pass on that one."

Sam knew. He knew he should just shut up and make himself as inconspicuous as possible, letting someone else deal with this.

But he had his duty, and a guard didn't shirk back even in the face of ultimate evil! These people wanted to enter the city, and the law was clear about the rules. So even if he wished nothing more than to let them pass by unopposed-

"S-Sir," he stammered, then gathered his courage. "You need to fill out the proper forms first! Unless one is a citizen of the Empire, everyone must register upon first entry into the city."

"Darling," Aurelia tried to intervene, but it was too late.

"I will not," the Beast growled, barely held back by the veneer of the man he used to be, "sign your f*cking forms. Nor will I apply for citizenship in your ridiculous Empire. I just want to enter this damn city, is that so hard to understand?"

"M-maybe," Pete smiled sickly, "you would be agreeable to wearing a badge, sir?"

All that could be heard over the sudden silence was the still-loud blaring of alarms and the running footsteps of their reinforcements. This did not reassure Sam as much as he wished it could.

"A pity," the golden-haired girl sighed. "I liked this place."

AN: Sadly my imagination failed to plot a path on which the Hero's meeting with civilization wouldn't end explosively. Would have probably been better to turtle up in the wilderness and grind his way to victory, but let's just say his last experience with the Apocryphal Curse dissuaded him from that notion.

How is this a Waifu Quest if there were only three candidates chosen in exchange for all those Curses, you ask? The Hero sunk the rest into Accursed Favor, for only the pursuit of the ultimate waifu can warm his dead heart anymore, and such lofty goals require appropriate sacrifices. Let's call it... long-term investment.
 
I can't say that I understand the current fascination with Immodest Proposal.

Like, I can respect Freedom. It's a path to Redemption, another chance at building something better for yourself after being a pawn in a cruel game. It's a just reward for all the suffering and toiling the MC went through.

Why would you pick Sword then? That power doesn't appear conductive to a healthy life-style since it relies on both effort and self-sacrifice. If you are trying to live a new life away from past pain, why would you pick a power antithetical to a better life? Mere knowledge on a shiny that was dangled in front of your eyes way too many times?

In the face of Freedom and the chance to bring back the MC's deceased wife through Three Wishes, such a reasoning sounds like one the most wretched thing you could do.

Then we have those who fear the lack of immediate power of a Progression-class with Sword.

Now, I might be new around here but it seems like Rihaku appreciates to use technicalities to sway arguments one way or another. Does that mean he's lying when he says the Sword has a starting power of 0 and Remittances don't give raw power? Not necessarily. You have to look deeper into his words though.

In this case, power multipliers related to training and learning the Praxis are still a very real possibility. After all, 0 multiplied by any number is still 0, so the starting power isn't increased at all. Yet it would obviate to some of the cons of a Progression-class.

Which brings us to this widespread fear of dying. Understandable perhaps, but...is it truly warranted?

For real, this is the mere start of the Quest, not the end. We have not been seen a story develop for years, we haven't grown attached enough to be terrorized by the chance of failure. This is the beginning of the Quest, the lowest point before infinite potential can be achieved through grit and planning. All it requires is to not be scaredy cats from the get-go.

Or to be blunt - we must go hard or go home, but it seems many should definitely go home.
 
I don't think Rihaku is going to hold back with the punches just because it's the start of the quest. He's pretty consequent about letting us deal with the results of our choices, even if it means the end of a quest.

And when he all but says something is a bad idea, the vast majority of the time it's a really bad idea.
 
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