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A Light from the Shadow (Tolkien CKII)

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ganonso said:
In which order do you greet the Istari though?
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The same order we noticed them in I'd say. So...

[] Curumo, Olorin, Aiwendil.

I'll add it to the core plan if it's okay with everyone.

I'm also tempted to add this.

-[] Afford each the same amount of time, words and goodwill. Even if Curumo's countenance or other outside elements try to be distracting.

But that's rather explicitly stated in the write-in and I don't want to come across as pushy or anything.

It MIGHT also make sense for us to speak to Gandalf last, which would let us segue into some other one-one-one conversation between the two of us, without insulting anyone. You know, on account of him being Nienna's too.

EDIT

Actually, I think this format is easiest on everyone.

[X] Plan "No, no Kingdom even for your Best Horse"
[X] Order of Greeting: Curumo, Olorin, Aiwendil.

Since I imagine we might get a choice later to decide who to spend time with on. It would even make sense to notice Narya like we did Nenya, getting the chance to talk to Gandalf at length about it would be nice.
 
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The vote train's already been swung in the direction I'm most interested in, so I'm just posting to voice my enjoyment of the quest this far. Something about being an atoning Balrog shepherding the Orcs onto the path of repentance just tickles all the right fancies for me.

That said, I do note a fairly consistent trend of grammatical missteps here and there. Would @ganonso be interested in a proof-reader?
 
Spartan Altego said:
The vote train's already been swung in the direction I'm most interested in, so I'm just posting to voice my enjoyment of the quest this far. Something about being an atoning Balrog shepherding the Orcs onto the path of repentance just tickles all the right fancies for me.

That said, I do note a fairly consistent trend of grammatical missteps here and there. Would @ganonso be interested in a proof-reader?
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Thanks for the post. And yes a proof-reader could be nice. The mix of English being my second language and Tolkien's style which I at least try to imitate being not exactly easy makes mistakes very probable.
 
ganonso said:
Thanks for the post. And yes a proof-reader could be nice. The mix of English being my second language and Tolkien's style which I at least try to imitate being not exactly easy makes mistakes very probable.
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Yeah, Tolkien's style was very...Tolkien. But I can confirm you're hitting all the right notes, at least from my end. Feel free to PM me with your updates if you want them looked over ahead of time, or I can just review them once they're posted publicly. :D
 
@ganonso, you do hit Tolkien's style very well, both here and in Darkest Times. It's actually why I like them both so much, you really capture the flavor of his legendarium really well.
 
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Nan Curunir: Part 2
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    • Nan Curunir: Part 2
    The voice of Curunír is a marvel worthy of rivaling any of Aulë's craft. It's not only the words that are uttered, as they are plain and that was but a simple greeting. The Voice is an echo of the Music and you wonder grimly - when you remember Sauron's own skill in the arts - if that's a trait common to the Aulendili. Which it may be. Aulë is the Vala of all crafts, and oration and rhetoric are crafts not unlike the smelting of metal or the mining of gems.

    Yet you cannot help but be impressed - and not entirely in a good way. You had only heard such sweet melody and compelling voice two times in your long eternity. One was when the maiden Lúthien, alone and unafraid, entered Angband and sang for the assembly of the Umaïar, putting your raging spirits to sleep. The other was when Sauron came to Morgoth and tried to sway him in many a matter, to restrain his wild impulses that would have ruined the war. Even now you cannot say if the old Aulendil was being evil by focusing your former lord's attentions or good because it turned his jealous rage from his direct servants. You doubt you will ever know.

    But then the problem is perhaps with you. After all, did you not Fall in the power and seduction of Morgoth at the time of his splendor? Some spirits that were of your order and company deserted him in the time before creation, when for the first time he dared speak against the All-Father. You did not. You followed him in his great descent and always believed his word.

    Perhaps some weak part in your core always longed for the charismatic and the bright, was always ready to bask in another's glory like a sunflower turned to a star. Curunír is not Melkor, but perhaps his Voice or something approaching it had more effect on you than in others. If that were true, who could say what would happen if you were to be brought in Sauron's presence? While the rumors in the world say he's been destroyed and his power broken, you know it isn't the case, else the Valar would not have sent the Istari.

    Still, you must be prudent. And observation is but the first of precaution to take in an unknown situation. Yet it won't hinder you to be polite to your future colleagues, and so you turn first to the most eminent of them.

    "Hail Saruman the White, Chief of the Wise and Leader of the Council. I remember of old you were first of the People of Aulé when Sauron deserted the place. I come to you, leader of the Maïar in this Middle-Earth, for I passed from Shadow to Light in a strange world where years uncounted have gone since I walked the land unafraid. Galadriel has explained to me your mission, and I am ready to render aid for aid as I remember Sauron when he was high in the councils of Angband."

    "Help you shall have," answers Saruman. "As soon as we are aware of all the details of your situation. Many things I see, but my eyes cannot pierce the darkness of Moria. We will have to speak of what has happened since you slaughtered the Orcs at the East-Gate."

    You turn to Olórin next and greet him. You heard the Dwarves name him Tharkûn in their tongue, but Galadriel referred to him as Mithrandir - the Grey Pilgrim. In him you sense much of your own nature, for he passed many eons at Nienna's side learning mercy and compassion. You see that in his eyes, where in Saruman's you see only the gears of some vast intelligence. When he answers you his voice is like crackling embers to your ears and you are filled with warmth. It is not the power of Curunír's Voice, but still it is power. When Olórin's power is nearly uncloaked in a place like this you feel his voice lifts weariness and fills the heart with new-found vigor. One dark corner of your mind whispers how an army accompanied by this voice would never falter, even against superior numbers.

    Aiwendil, you cannot understand. He's distracted, more accustomed you think to the voices of birds and beasts than humans, and whatever the mission of the Istari you see he's in danger of forsaking it. He loves Arda, but he loves the olvar and the kelvar - the trees and the animals - a bit too much to fight the Shadow efficiently. While you have nothing but respect for Yavanna, you cannot see the wizard raise the Tree Shepherds or send packs of wolves and flocks of birds against the Enemy. Alas for the world, for the living nature needs its advocate even more than the children of Eru.

    Yet he follows as Saruman guides you atop his tower and Gandalf, as he was called in the West, speaks. "Your arrival is a boon in several ways it seems. For Saruman has decided to reveal much of what he jealously kept previously. Even some things that will be discussed later at the Council."

    Indeed you are now in one of the high chambers in a room, whose ceiling depicts the stars of Varda. At the center on a table of thrones is a sphere of what could be glass or crystal. No. Not crystal. As you examine the item, you see the material is unknown. Artificial. Long were the days when you beheld the Silmarils of Fëanor and it doesn't take you long to recognize some hints of his craft. For those who can feel these things, an echo of the very fiery spirit of the craftsman is still embedded in the sphere. You are going to inquire as to the purpose of the contraption but Saruman anticipates your question.

    "This is a Palantir: a seeing stone brought from sundered Númenor. Many things it enables me to see..." His eyes meet yours. "But perhaps your old allegiance will yield more results. I have long sought the servants of Sauron in whatever guise they hide, but even the stone of Elendil has limits."

    What will you do?

    [] Gaze into the Orthanc-Stone

    [] Refuse to gaze.
     
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    • ganonso said:
    Nan Curunir: Part 2
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    Er, is there a reason you made it a giant quote? I thought this would be a tally or something from the lack of 'posts so and so many words'.

    In any event, assuming write-ins are allowed...



    [X] Politely Refuse to gaze.
    -[X] "I'm sorry, friend, but I do not trust my strength of heart to see into this stone safely"

    Saruman fell from the Palantir. Let's not double fall.
     
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    Hmm. Aragorn was fine, though. Granted, there was that whole thing with his Claim being greater than Sauron's which gave him an edge, but it's not like the Palantir could corrupt or harm people or anything, beyond some psychological shock and trauma perhaps - the movie depicted things wrong in that regard, for the sake of drama. It's not like the ring or the Witch-King's presence. It's a way to look from stone to stone and across vast distances. What Sauron CAN do is control what you get to see because he has the master stone, if you're Denethor anyway. Though some sorcery will allow him to try and send hot thoughts our way, let him: we're the Spirit of Redeeming Fire.

    Considering that @ganonso said previously we could handle wearing the One Ring without falling under Sauron's control (for a while at least, if not forever, presumably), I think a Palantir use would be more than fine. It's not like Middle Earth's important people don't already know of us anyway, after the very overt way we made our introduction at Azanulbizar. Especially as we'd be looking through the stone from farther off than Aragorn did.

    If we can't handle looking through a Palantir after everything ELSE we've been through during the many millennia of our life, it doesn't speak well of our resolve, does it?

    Finally, we managed to sense the discord in Nenya's power without even trying. With Sauron the ONLY thing possibly hindering us in this, an action that is canonically overt(-ish) since Sauron isn't the real master of the Palantiri, we should be fine even if we get into a death glare match.

    Tl;DR: If Denethor managed to use his much-closer-to-Mordor Palantir without anything more serious than mental and emotional stress for years, we can handle one look. And while Aragorn does have the Numenor king line claim going for him, we can probably do better than even him.

    [X] Plan "The Least Fair of them All"

    [X] Sauron may have been the most subtle of Maiar once, but that time passed along with his guise as Mairon, after Numenor's fall. More importantly, there is literally no chance of you agreeing with Sauron on anything. Except any statements of his that he himself would not really believe. Whether you're susceptible to the charismatic or not, knowing is half the battle, and it in no way means you doubt your purpose. So if he tries to interfere with your scrying? You'll see whose purpose is purer. Therefore...
    [X] Gaze into the Orthanc-Stone
    -[X] But first, politely request a summary of Saruman's experiences with it, to know what to expect.

    EDIT

    Also, Saruman didn't fall just from the Palantir use. That would be kind of odd to say, seeing as Denethor didn't technically fall JUST due to the Palantir either. Saruman has many other issues chipping at his good sense, not the least is the resentment for Radagast and the inferiority complex towards Gandalf. The so-called power struggle over influence on the "lesser people."

    The Palantir was just an excuse for him to slip off the slippery slope entirely. Do remember, the GM said just days ago that Saruman is still not fallen. Seeing as we just learned he's been using the Palantir regularly, and yet he's not fallen yet, it sands to reason that Saruman did not, in fact, fall from the Palantir.
     
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    Karmic Acumen said:
    Hmm. Aragorn was fine, though. Granted, there was that whole thing with his Claim being greater than Sauron's which gave him an edge, but it's not like the Palantir could corrupt or harm people or anything, beyond some psychological shock and trauma perhaps - the movie depicted things wrong in that regard, for the sake of drama. It's not like the ring or the Witch-King's presence. It's a way to look from stone to stone and across vast distances. What Sauron CAN do is control what you get to see because he has the master stone, if you're Denethor anyway. Though some sorcery will allow him to try and send hot thoughts our way, let him: we're the Spirit of Redeeming Fire.

    Considering that @ganonso said previously we could handle wearing the One Ring without falling under Sauron's control (for a while at least, if not forever, presumably), I think a Palantir use would be more than fine. It's not like Middle Earth's important people don't already know of us anyway, after the very overt way we made our introduction at Azanulbizar. Especially as we'd be looking through the stone from farther off than Aragorn did.

    If we can't handle looking through a Palantir after everything ELSE we've been through during the many millennia of our life, it doesn't speak well of our resolve, does it?

    Finally, we managed to sense the discord in Nenya's power without even trying. With Souron the ONLY thing possibly hindering us in this, an action that is canonically overt(-ish) since Sauron isn't the real master of the Palantiri, we should be fine even if we get into a death glare match.

    Tl;DR: If Denethor managed to use his much-closer-to-Mordor Palantir without anything more serious than mental and emotional stress for years, we can handle one look. And while Aragorn does have the Numenor king line claim going for him, we can probably do better than even him.

    [X] Gaze into the Orthanc-Stone
    -[X] After you first get a summary of Saruman's experiences with it, to know what to expect.

    EDIT

    Also, Saruman didn't fall just from the Palantir use. That would be kind of odd to say, seeing as Denethor didn't technically fall JUST due to the Palantir either. Saruman has many other issues chipping at his good sense, not the least is the resentment for Radagast and the inferiority complex towards Gandalf. The so-called power struggle over influence on the "lesser people."

    The Palantir was just an excuse for him to skip off the slippery slope entirely. Do remember, the GM said just days ago that Saruman is still not fallen. Seeing as we just learned he's been using the Palantir regularly, and yet he's not fallen yet, it sands to reason that Saruman did not, in fact, fall from the Palantir.
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    Hmm. I'm torn. These are well argued points but we just expressed concern over being too swayable and this puts us in potential direct contact with Sauron.
     
    Terrabrand said:
    Hmm. I'm torn. These are well argued points but we just expressed concern over being too swayable and this puts us in potential direct contact with Sauron.
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    We can just use it as a way to just forge our resolve into something even stronger. We're concerned we can fall to the charismatic, but Sauron? We're damned well not about to dance to any of his tunes. And, according to Tolkien canon, Sauron CANNOT use his beautiful guise since he lost it after the fall of Numenor, when he "died."

    Thus, since an alliance or truce or any sort of collaboration or "live and let live" with him is out of the question - we've lived through the consequences of something like that already - we can use this as a chance to get insight into his tricks. A learning experience + willpower exercise all in one.

    Maybe it will be roll-based, maybe we'll get more mini-turn choices, but chickening out at this point would be weird after how categoric we were with Galadriel about the Discord and its effects. Sauron literally CANNOT be that subtle anymore, the Ring being an exception on account of preceding the loss of his Maian "Fairness."

    EDIT

    Amended my vote a bit, but I don't see a point to stretch the write-in like last time.
     
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    [X] Gaze into the Orthanc-Stone
    -[X] But first, politely request a summary of Saruman's experiences with it, to know what to expect.

    Eh, you've convinced me, but I still say we be polite. So my own spin.
     
    [X] Gaze into the Orthanc-Stone
    -[X] But first, politely request a summary of Saruman's experiences with it, to know what to expect.
     
    Hmmm.... I just realized something.

    Sauron is NOT in Mordor. He is in Dol Guldur...

    Does he even have a Palantir with him to cause us trouble? If not, my waxing prosaically about the Silmarilion lore might be entirely moot.

    EDIT

    Yeah, so apparently Sauron is currently masquerading as the Necromancer in Dol Guldur. No Palantiri there, so we literally have less to worry about than Denethor here.
     
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    Terrabrand said:
    Er, is there a reason you made it a giant quote? I thought this would be a tally or something from the lack of 'posts so and so many words'.

    In any event, assuming write-ins are allowed...
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    Ah, whoops. That'd have been my suggestion, since I found it to be neater looking when doing my own quests as well as seeing it in others. I forgot that it also can sometimes make notifications for updates weird because the quotes portions don't count towards the word count. :oops:

    [X] Gaze into the Orthanc-Stone.
    - [X] But first, politely request a summary of Saruman's experiences with it, to know what to expect.
     
    Karmic Acumen said:
    Hmmm.... I just realized something.

    Sauron is NOT in Mordor. He is in Dol Guldur...

    Does he even have a Palantir with him to cause us trouble? If not, my waxing prosaically about the Silmarilion lore might be entirely moot.

    EDIT

    Yeah, so apparently Sauron is currently masquerading as the Necromancer in Dul Guldur. No Palantiri there, so we literally have less to worry about than Denethor here.
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    Sauron's Palantir is the stone of Minas Ithil that the Nazgul took a thousand years before. None can tell where the Ithil-Stone is kept. Perhaps in Dol Guldur, (which by the way not even Gandalf entered at this time) or Minas Morgul.
     
    ganonso said:
    Sauron's Palantir is the stone of Minas Ithil that the Nazgul took a thousand years before. None can tell where the Ithil-Stone is kept. Perhaps in Dol Guldur, (which by the way not even Gandalf entered at this time) or Minas Morgul.
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    I thought that the use of Palantiri gave one at least a vague notion of where the others were, though. Especially since, from what I remember of reading the Silmarillion, the way the Palantiri worked was that you faced the direction you wanted to scry in and stared in that direction "through" the Palantir.

    On the flip side, this wouldn't account for Gandalf not being sure of how many stones still existed and where, in the LOTR books later, so what you say makes sense too...

    EDIT

    Regardless, since Sauron is trying to lay low right now, any truly serious attempt to mess with our scrying would expose him to us, which he was rather annoyed to have happening even during the Hobbit books, hundreds of years from now, so...
     
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    [X] Gaze into the Orthanc-Stone
    -[X] But first, politely request a summary of Saruman's experiences with it, to know what to expect.
     
    [X] Gaze into the Orthanc-Stone
    -[X] But first, politely request a summary of Saruman's experiences with it, to know what to expect.

    Where is the Master Palantir? The one that can reach to Tol Eressea?
     
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