[X] Operation Role Reversal: One thing you definitely wouldn't try without luck-control on your side: Telepathic scans on the Simurgh. By using fate-manipulation to create a quick ebb in your power pool, you can reinforce its power for a short duration, allowing you to combine mental super-speed with extremely powerful mind-reading powers. Then, with your mind accelerated a thousandfold, you can read the Endbringer's own thoughts, discovering her plans, her contingencies, even her future visions.
 
[X ] Operation Role Reversal: One thing you definitely wouldn't try without luck-control on your side: Telepathic scans on the Simurgh. By using fate-manipulation to create a quick ebb in your power pool, you can reinforce its power for a short duration, allowing you to combine mental super-speed with extremely powerful mind-reading powers. Then, with your mind accelerated a thousandfold, you can read the Endbringer's own thoughts, discovering her plans, her contingencies, even her future visions.
 
Last edited:
[X ] Operation Role Reversal: One thing you definitely wouldn't try without luck-control on your side: Telepathic scans on the Simurgh. By using fate-manipulation to create a quick ebb in your power pool, you can reinforce its power for a short duration, allowing you to combine mental super-speed with extremely powerful mind-reading powers. Then, with your mind accelerated a thousandfold, you can read the Endbringer's own thoughts, discovering her plans, her contingencies, even her future visions.
Got an extra space in your "[X]". It keeps the vote-counter from counting it.
 
[X] Operation Role Reversal

I'd really like to take a few second breather far from anything potentially dangerous using maxxed regen first if possible, it felt extremely negligent to dive in to this fight without doing so first.

Is it possible to use our Fate Control to flee the battlefield or summon reinforcements? Eidolon luckily came in and pulled us out?
 
Is it possible to use our Fate Control to flee the battlefield or summon reinforcements? Eidolon luckily came in and pulled us out?

Honestly, if we could find a way to get Eidolon her and stick him to us, with Avatar providing flight and shielding while Eidolon cycles powers, and essentially try to pool their assets?

I'd be all up for that.

Hell with mind-reading and telepathy they could function as essentially one unit. In theory at least. It'd be an interesting idea to try.
 
That guy in the pod is definitely important (It's Leet, the tinker that she's basing her tech off of), so Role Reversal would help us realise just how important he is to her plans, because she can't really build more tech out of nothing without a tinker to base it from. But then again, IF it works...

Gragh... This is a damn hard fight...
 
[X] Operation Role Reversal: One thing you definitely wouldn't try without luck-control on your side: Telepathic scans on the Simurgh. By using fate-manipulation to create a quick ebb in your power pool, you can reinforce its power for a short duration, allowing you to combine mental super-speed with extremely powerful mind-reading powers. Then, with your mind accelerated a thousandfold, you can read the Endbringer's own thoughts, discovering her plans, her contingencies, even her future visions.
 
[X] Operation Role Reversal: One thing you definitely wouldn't try without luck-control on your side: Telepathic scans on the Simurgh. By using fate-manipulation to create a quick ebb in your power pool, you can reinforce its power for a short duration, allowing you to combine mental super-speed with extremely powerful mind-reading powers. Then, with your mind accelerated a thousandfold, you can read the Endbringer's own thoughts, discovering her plans, her contingencies, even her future visions.
 
None of the three seem likely to work

Shooting is VERY simple, she won't need precognition to predict such an attack and deal with it.

EMPs are a waste of time, she can just make even more nanites

Reading her mind may work in a mutual precog clash, but we'd need a subsequent fate twist to finish her off. Its pure setup.
Assuming it works
 
Reading her mind may work in a mutual precog clash, but we'd need a subsequent fate twist to finish her off. Its pure setup.
Assuming it works

I do not disagree.

Unfortunately, I also don't see a way for us to make reliable gains from our current position so we need to stack the field in our favor somehow.

If you've got some better ideas to make it happen, preferably without using fate, I am all ears.
 
[X] Operation Role Reversal

I'd really like to take a few second breather far from anything potentially dangerous using maxxed regen first if possible, it felt extremely negligent to dive in to this fight without doing so first.

Is it possible to use our Fate Control to flee the battlefield or summon reinforcements? Eidolon luckily came in and pulled us out?

Our plan wasn't bad, we didn't even underestimate the Simurgh's ability to calculate. The problem is that "Mental Superspeed" is still too slow to pressure her.

The problem is that she's being played as "Can calculate everything virtually instantaneously", that's not a combination that can actually be beaten coventionally. Random shooting won't work for the very same reason she hasn't been touched by anything, because she actually does have the processing power to accurately calculate everything.

And the problem with reading her mind is that it's a plan that we comprehended without a fate hack, and given her displayed skill her, she knows we're going to do it, and has had sufficient time to scrub the data we have access to to ensure it just falls into her hands. Yes, we'll avoid being counterattacked, but even "Flipping the table and making her show her hand" doesn't help us when she has enough time to swap out the cards and give us the wrong impression.

Simply put, the problem seems to be that she's too fast. It seems that any plan that involves a non-zero period of time from activation to killshot is going to fail it seems, because she simply has too much processing power behind her to beat, since even with mental super speed, she was still faster and smarter than we were.

So yeah, that's a problem. Not only does she plan long term, but she can plan on the fly in combat time at the same time. That's a very, very hard combination to beat.

On the plus side, the Avatar is getting closer to identifying her weak point, and once we have that, all we need to do is... Basically be able to hit her with enough force to destroy it in a single shot. And that's the problem. We need a Fate Hack just to hit her, because she's too fast and has too much processing power to be touched otherwise. And an attack without a Fate Hack geared to kill her isn't likely to defeat her, given Endbringer durability.

I'm not really sure we can win this fight. The best we could hope for is to find a way to withdraw I suspect, but that just gives her more ammunition to turn against us.

EDIT: That being said, I wonder, would it be in our power to use a Fate Hack to take her Tinker library out of play? Teleport him somewhere to Earth Bet and out of her (Easy) reach? Or even just put him into stasis where she can't basically plumb his brain for new traps to kill us with. That just reduces her from "Basically unlimited tinkertech library" to her telekinesis only.

At least until she hops back to Earth Bet anyway and grabs some more hostages, assuming she doesn't have any to begin with.
 
Last edited:
Reading her mind may work in a mutual precog clash, but we'd need a subsequent fate twist to finish her off. Its pure setup.
Assuming it works
True. The reason why I'm willing to go for it is that this option isn't just a tactical option, but it can also grant us a strategic advantage. Even if we flee the battle (difficult) without killing her, we'll still likely get some *extremely* useful plunder from her mind that we aren't likely to be able to get elsewhere, about her long term plans, the ways she's already subtly sabotaged the world, the nature of powers on Earth-Bet, the likely flow of the future, everything. Heck, getting some of her secrets and escaping might well be better than winning without getting any of her secrets.
Also, it's the plan that most intimately involves Fate Manipulation. i.e. the plan she has the hardest time conceiving of, and thus countering or planning around.
 
[X] Operation Role Reversal

I can't see how the other two plans put us ahead. THe first one....yeah, just a straight up vote of no confidence from me. I don't think we'll do appreciable damage, and it's burning our most valuable resource to try and do damage. Also feels like kind of a weak feint.

Second one, that's just focused on ruining electronic based tinkertech. I would honestly expect the Simurgh to work up something resistant to our efforts, or hide something in the field. I suppose it limits her hand, but I can't see how it strengths our position to the point where we can make progress.

Short version: that's a nice step one in theory, but I'm not seeing a good step two. If it ended with us healed more, good, but I just can't feel it.
Odds are, whatever you end up voting for, the Avatar will be taking a dozen seconds first to put his entire power pool into regeneration before resuming the fight.

Which leaves the third one, where we try to flip the table and look at her hand. It won't give us everything and she'll probably work up new ones, but it puts us in a better position to try and work around her.

It's pretty much a victory by default though. I am very interested in seeing it happen, but it's one hell of a risk. If we weren't immune to mind-control....and as it is Avatar's had trouble comprehending precog I think, which also worries me.
It's not that he has a particular problem with precog - it's just that it's an OCP for him, because after nearly a century of superheroing, he's (almost) never encountered it on Earth-Gimel.




[X] Operation Role Reversal

I'd really like to take a few second breather far from anything potentially dangerous using maxxed regen first if possible, it felt extremely negligent to dive in to this fight without doing so first.

Is it possible to use our Fate Control to flee the battlefield or summon reinforcements? Eidolon luckily came in and pulled us out?

Honestly, if we could find a way to get Eidolon her and stick him to us, with Avatar providing flight and shielding while Eidolon cycles powers, and essentially try to pool their assets?

I'd be all up for that.

Hell with mind-reading and telepathy they could function as essentially one unit. In theory at least. It'd be an interesting idea to try.

Sorry, but... your ability to call in reinforcements is rather hindered by the Simurgh's choice of locale.
Cauldron could in theory send Eidolon. They're leaning toward "no, it's a terrible idea, Eidolon would have a serious battlefield disadvantage in space and he already couldn't beat these guys when they were sandbagging. Right now, the Simurgh isn't sandbagging at all. She blew up a planet just to get one guy."



That guy in the pod is definitely important (It's Leet, the tinker that she's basing her tech off of), so Role Reversal would help us realise just how important he is to her plans, because she can't really build more tech out of nothing without a tinker to base it from. But then again, IF it works...

Gragh... This is a damn hard fight...

Well, were you expecting an Endbringer fight - never mind this Endbringer fight - to be easy? ;)



Our plan wasn't bad, we didn't even underestimate the Simurgh's ability to calculate. The problem is that "Mental Superspeed" is still too slow to pressure her.
Mental superspeed has kept you from dying - not because it pressures her, but because it allows you time to react and think.

The problem is that she's being played as "Can calculate everything virtually instantaneously", that's not a combination that can actually be beaten coventionally. Random shooting won't work for the very same reason she hasn't been touched by anything, because she actually does have the processing power to accurately calculate everything.
Her calculations aren't quite instantaneous - you'd be dead if she had that degree of quasi-omniscience - but it's fast enough that she isn't helpless for several minutes once you pull a fate hack, either.
It kind of has to be. Otherwise, Scion or Eidolon showing up to Endbringer fights would cripple her way more than it did, even if she built a mental model of them.
For most of this chapter, The Simurgh was focusing on short-term predictions, trying to regain control of what, from her perspective, is kind of a clusterfuck. Her plan was killing you without a fight, after all.

I'm not really sure we can win this fight. The best we could hope for is to find a way to withdraw I suspect, but that just gives her more ammunition to turn against us.
You can win this fight. Word of GM.
Withdrawing, on the other hand... :p

EDIT: That being said, I wonder, would it be in our power to use a Fate Hack to take her Tinker library out of play? Teleport him somewhere to Earth Bet and out of her (Easy) reach? Or even just put him into stasis where she can't basically plumb his brain for new traps to kill us with. That just reduces her from "Basically unlimited tinkertech library" to her telekinesis only.
Well, you'd need for the Avatar to realize the guy is a Tinker she's using, for starters. But if you got past that hurdle... well, you can't send him to Earth Bet (if it was that easy, you'd send yourself and phone Scion), and putting him in stasis is unlikely to help (she might still have access to his shard, after all), but removing him from her range would still be an option.
 
Odds are, whatever you end up voting for, the Avatar will be taking a dozen seconds first to put his entire power pool into regeneration before resuming the fight.


It's not that he has a particular problem with precog - it's just that it's an OCP for him, because after nearly a century of superheroing, he's (almost) never encountered it on Earth-Gimel.








Sorry, but... your ability to call in reinforcements is rather hindered by the Simurgh's choice of locale.
Cauldron could in theory send Eidolon. They're leaning toward "no, it's a terrible idea, Eidolon would have a serious battlefield disadvantage in space and he already couldn't beat these guys when they were sandbagging. Right now, the Simurgh isn't sandbagging at all. She blew up a planet just to get one guy."





Well, were you expecting an Endbringer fight - never mind this Endbringer fight - to be easy? ;)




Mental superspeed has kept you from dying - not because it pressures her, but because it allows you time to react and think.


Her calculations aren't quite instantaneous - you'd be dead if she had that degree of quasi-omniscience - but it's fast enough that she isn't helpless for several minutes once you pull a fate hack, either.
It kind of has to be. Otherwise, Scion or Eidolon showing up to Endbringer fights would cripple her way more than it did, even if she built a mental model of them.
For most of this chapter, The Simurgh was focusing on short-term predictions, trying to regain control of what, from her perspective, is kind of a clusterfuck. Her plan was killing you without a fight, after all.


You can win this fight. Word of GM.
Withdrawing, on the other hand... :p


Well, you'd need for the Avatar to realize the guy is a Tinker she's using, for starters. But if you got past that hurdle... well, you can't send him to Earth Bet (if it was that easy, you'd send yourself and phone Scion), and putting him in stasis is unlikely to help (she might still have access to his shard, after all), but removing him from her range would still be an option.

Curses!

Ugh, I think I'm out of ideas. Not that my original plan worked out very well.

That said, just out of curiosity, how unpleasant would it have been if we took a few seconds to heal up first?
 
Curses!

Ugh, I think I'm out of ideas. Not that my original plan worked out very well.

That said, just out of curiosity, how unpleasant would it have been if we took a few seconds to heal up first?
Hm...
Well, you wouldn't have been in "only my willpower is keeping me alive" mode during this entire scene, allowing you to shake off things like the initial "bury him in all the debris" attack easily. The Simurgh would have had a few more seconds to plan through her attacks, but she would have needed to make her attacks better just to affect you. Meanwhile, you could have invested that half of your power pool in something else, like improved super-senses, or partial immunity to energy attacks.
Overall, you'd likely have fared better.
But victory isn't out of reach yet.
 
You know, now I'd really like to see an omake from Leet's point of view.

You just KNOW that he's soiled his pants several times by now :p

....actually, in maybe twelve hours I might try my hand at it, if nobody else has done so already
 
[X] Operation Role Reversal: One thing you definitely wouldn't try without luck-control on your side: Telepathic scans on the Simurgh. By using fate-manipulation to create a quick ebb in your power pool, you can reinforce its power for a short duration, allowing you to combine mental super-speed with extremely powerful mind-reading powers. Then, with your mind accelerated a thousandfold, you can read the Endbringer's own thoughts, discovering her plans, her contingencies, even her future visions.
 
I'm still saying that Role Reversal requires the Simurgh to both have a mind that we can access, and that she can't just scrub her data to only present what she wants us to know.
 
Her calculations aren't quite instantaneous - you'd be dead if she had that degree of quasi-omniscience - but it's fast enough that she isn't helpless for several minutes once you pull a fate hack, either.
It kind of has to be. Otherwise, Scion or Eidolon showing up to Endbringer fights would cripple her way more than it did, even if she built a mental model of them.
Are you sure that Ziz is blocked from Eiodlon and Scion? I know PTV is blocked but that was a hack added in by Eden after it detached, why would a war machine have blind spots?
 
Back
Top