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A Champion in Earth Bet [Worm/Original Setting]

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Bbbbb said:
I do have another Thing to say would Not more people Join after an endbringer death?Like you Said one percentage of the villains Turned themself in. I honestly think the number should be higher Like at least 5%. Another Thing how much do people Love the Avatar?
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I think you perhaps don't grasp just how many 1% of all villains is already. That's a lot of villains, worldwide. It just might not seem like that because the world is very big, so we're only seeing one here, two there. Also, frankly, every government sucks fucking ass, especially in Earth-Bet, and quite a few villains are aware of this and might even be villains as a direct result of the government being ineffective, totalitarian, straight-up fascist, or what-have-you. Most of them, regardless of an Endbringer's death, aren't about to turn themselves over to the mockery that is their local court system; I strongly suspect that the ones who did turn themselves in are more villains by circumstance, who have at least a little faith in the system to (if nothing else) prioritize the good PR of recruiting them over punishing them. Because they have a good argument that they were pushed into villainy rather than choosing it out of a bunch of better options, and because they haven't done anything too heinous like child sex trafficking or something, and because of the PR involved in publically saying "Leviathan's death is a good reason to turn my life around, if you're merciful enough to give me a chance", they're willing to trust that if they turn themselves in that their governments won't just disappear them or throw the book at them and give them 85 life sentences or something. That's simply not all gonna be true for a lot of villains, and without the confluence of all of those factors, those villains simply have no reason to believe that it'll turn out well if they turn themselves in.
 
Crimson Doom said:
I think you perhaps don't grasp just how many 1% of all villains is already. That's a lot of villains, worldwide. It just might not seem like that because the world is very big, so we're only seeing one here, two there. Also, frankly, every government sucks fucking ass, especially in Earth-Bet, and quite a few villains are aware of this and might even be villains as a direct result of the government being ineffective, totalitarian, straight-up fascist, or what-have-you. Most of them, regardless of an Endbringer's death, aren't about to turn themselves over to the mockery that is their local court system; I strongly suspect that the ones who did turn themselves in are more villains by circumstance, who have at least a little faith in the system to (if nothing else) prioritize the good PR of recruiting them over punishing them. Because they have a good argument that they were pushed into villainy rather than choosing it out of a bunch of better options, and because they haven't done anything too heinous like child sex trafficking or something, and because of the PR involved in publically saying "Leviathan's death is a good reason to turn my life around, if you're merciful enough to give me a chance", they're willing to trust that if they turn themselves in that their governments won't just disappear them or throw the book at them and give them 85 life sentences or something. That's simply not all gonna be true for a lot of villains, and without the confluence of all of those factors, those villains simply have no reason to believe that it'll turn out well if they turn themselves in.
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1% of the villains became Heroes right? What about rogues?
 
Bbbbb said:
1% of the villains became Heroes right? What about rogues?
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IIRC some of them decided to sign up for the Protectorate as well, but unlike villains, rogues are... rather less prevalent worldwide, because there are a lot of countries where trying not to take a side ends with you being forcibly conscripted by someone, so rogues aren't really a thing there. So probably not nearly as many rogues joining as villains on that basis alone.
 
Crimson Doom said:
IIRC some of them decided to sign up for the Protectorate as well, but unlike villains, rogues are... rather less prevalent worldwide, because there are a lot of countries where trying not to take a side ends with you being forcibly conscripted by someone, so rogues aren't really a thing there. So probably not nearly as many rogues joining as villains on that basis alone.
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You think its quite possible for the guild to retake brazile? Or Argentinia?
 
Crimson Doom said:
IIRC some of them decided to sign up for the Protectorate as well, but unlike villains, rogues are... rather less prevalent worldwide, because there are a lot of countries where trying not to take a side ends with you being forcibly conscripted by someone, so rogues aren't really a thing there. So probably not nearly as many rogues joining as villains on that basis alone.
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Well, there is Toybox.
 
Crimson Doom said:
IIRC some of them decided to sign up for the Protectorate as well, but unlike villains, rogues are... rather less prevalent worldwide, because there are a lot of countries where trying not to take a side ends with you being forcibly conscripted by someone, so rogues aren't really a thing there. So probably not nearly as many rogues joining as villains on that basis alone.
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Plus, the Shards aren't fans of Rogues: They want CONFLICT, dammit. Trade prevents fights, and the casualites are just a bunch of numbers in a spreedsheet, BORING. I also get the sense Cauldron aren't fans of Rogues either: Hence why the accepted nomenclature is Rogues. That's the sort of name you pick out when you want to make them sound bad.
 
woweed said:
Plus, the Shards aren't fans of Rogues: They want CONFLICT, dammit. Trade prevents fights, and the casualites are just a bunch of numbers in a spreedsheet, BORING. I also get the sense Cauldron aren't fans of Rogues either: Hence why the accepted nomenclature is Rogues. That's the sort of name you pick out when you want to make them sound bad.
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Shards also don't have enough of a grasp of human anything to recognize the difference between two Tinkers trying to one-up each other in a competition over government contracts and two Tinkers bloodily murdering each other in the street. In fact, the former could easily produce more data than the latter.

The Entities don't want combat data. They're nematode worms that are brainlessly collecting ALL POSSIBLE DATA to solve a problem that only exists within their demented ganglia and is likely already solved, but they lack the actual intelligence to put the pieces together.

Parahumans fighting each other produces data, but so does parahumans playing around and experimenting with their powers, or parahumans pushing themselves to new heights in response to the pressures of the job market.

Half of why Earth-Bet turned into a superhero charnel house is that it was already an incredibly fucked up place with incredibly fucked up ideologies and cultural structures (it's based on our own world, after all), and it's not necessary to assume that shard mind-puppetry was to blame when there are plenty of less wacky explanations.

More importantly, "no rogues, all capes must smash into each other like action figures 24/7, no exceptions" is a completely unnecessary hobbling of the setting's potential.
 
GardenerBriareus said:
Shards also don't have enough of a grasp of human anything to recognize the difference between two Tinkers trying to one-up each other in a competition over government contracts and two Tinkers bloodily murdering each other in the street. In fact, the former could easily produce more data than the latter.

The Entities don't want combat data. They're nematode worms that are brainlessly collecting ALL POSSIBLE DATA to solve a problem that only exists within their demented ganglia and is likely already solved, but they lack the actual intelligence to put the pieces together.

Parahumans fighting each other produces data, but so does parahumans playing around and experimenting with their powers, or parahumans pushing themselves to new heights in response to the pressures of the job market.

Half of why Earth-Bet turned into a superhero charnel house is that it was already an incredibly fucked up place with incredibly fucked up ideologies and cultural structures (it's based on our own world, after all), and it's not necessary to assume that shard mind-puppetry was to blame when there are plenty of less wacky explanations.

More importantly, "no rogues, all capes must smash into each other like action figures 24/7, no exceptions" is a completely unnecessary hobbling of the setting's potential.
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The Shards are kinda dumb. Besides, I feel like, in a truly realistic setting, 90% of capes would be Rogues, using their powers for cash. This is basically canon, and a major point of Worm: comic book style behavior isn't natural. The shards are around to justify why someone would gain the power to control sand and decide the best use is to rob a bank, instead of, say, selling his services to the army.
 
I honestly think the Combat Drives were a dumb premise. I get the justification of saying comic book behavior isn't normal but, come on, as if humanity actually NEEDS to be pushed into fighting with each other. Superpowers would just be the new norm on how we'd do it. Also, I feel like it downplays a lot of character motivations. Does this person actually WANT to be a hero, or is their Shard just pushing them towards the most convenient fight?

And how would Rogue's even be possible if the Shards push their hosts to conflict? I know each Shard has a different level of influence, but the point remains, you could take out the combat drive and the story as a whole would still make sense because its a story where people turn into dragons and fire continent busting lasers. The grounds of what is and isn't believable are already gone.
 
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Conflict drive is vastly overstated in fanon. What it essentially boils down to is that shards choose their hosts, they aren't assigned randomly, and they tend to go to traumatized and broken people. If you gave powers to all the most traumatized people in society, it makes sense that you would get villains, IMO.
 
BurnBright said:
Conflict drive is vastly overstated in fanon. What it essentially boils down to is that shards choose their hosts, they aren't assigned randomly, and they tend to go to traumatized and broken people. If you gave powers to all the most traumatized people in society, it makes sense that you would get villains, IMO.
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Maybe. But I kinda think otherwise? Like… the data says that generally people who are the worst off are most generous, etc.
 
BurnBright said:
Conflict drive is vastly overstated in fanon. What it essentially boils down to is that shards choose their hosts, they aren't assigned randomly, and they tend to go to traumatized and broken people. If you gave powers to all the most traumatized people in society, it makes sense that you would get villains, IMO.
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I feel like that was probably WB's thought before he realized the reason I didn't like it, namely, that's weirdly insulting to people who suffer trauma. Lots of people, the vast majority, go through trauma without becoming a serial killer. There needs to be something more then that, to create a 1 to 3 split.
 
sun tzu said:
"And yet, some things don't fit," said Doctor Mother. "We've tried to locate his home universe by searching for every single one of the people he mentioned. Nothing. It's like the universe he describes doesn't exist. Like he made it all up."
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Thank you Mad Man or whoever is blocking it. I wouldn't trust these incompetent fools anywhere near the Avatar's World.
 
GhostAngel21 said:
Thank you Mad Man or whoever is blocking it. I wouldn't trust these incompetent fools anywhere near the Avatar's World.
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Madman: "Oh, I didn't actually need to do anything. Seriously, do you have any idea the insane technology it takes to jump between dimensions? Each and every universe is its own, self-contained space-time continuum. From the perspective of universe A, universe B effectively doesn't exist. Crossing between them requires crazy-advanced tech - some of my finest work, really."
Madman: "And then you have the Entities, who evolved a mechanism for - at massive energy cost - breach the dimensional barrier. Then, once they've breached a universe, they establish anchors in it... and from that point onward, universe A and universe B do exist from each other's perspective, so travelling between them becomes as easy as travelling between two planes."
Madman: "The Entities did that for a long time back when they were confined to their home planet, spreading across versions of it in a gazillion dimensions and anchoring all of them together. And that's how we get the 'Entity Tangle' - the set of all dimensions the Entities have accessed, all of which allow (relatively) easy travel between them."
Madman: "But the Entity Tangle is still just a tiny fraction of the multiverse. Earth-Gimmel's dimension is just one of the many, many universes they never reached."
 
Ah, so its just Cauldron thinking that the other party is suspicious because its making them uncomfortable. Regardless, Madman, please never let them get close. Earth-Bet is finally getting some semblance of hope, we don't need these idiots messing up anything.
 
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sun tzu said:
And then you have the Entities, who evolved a mechanism for - at massive energy cost - breach the dimensional barrier.
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Actually, the entities evolved mechanism is hilariously cheap. They figured out how to interconnect (permanently as far as I can tell) every night-infinite alternate version of their planet before figuring out how to leave their planet in their home reality.
 
Whenyouseeyou said:
So mr madman what was the First universe of the Multiverse to be born have you figured it out
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Madman: "Oh, it all started with a singular Big Bang. Then the resulting universe split into two copies - one where a particle zagged left, one where it zagged right. Same thing happened a lot of times down the road before the splitting mechanism died out, and that's how we have a number of universes best expressed in scientific notation."
 
You seem to know a lot Madman. Would it be correct to assume you know of a way to possibly restore the Avatar to his full power but just haven't said anything because you think it's more fun this way?
 
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