- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1. yes
2. they are on the high range of cruiser in size and most of the way to heavy cruiser in toughness, while being closer to a low end battleciser in firepower
-
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
2. they are on the high range of cruiser in size and most of the way to heavy cruiser in toughness, while being closer to a low end battleciser in firepower
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) | Page 3419
Here's the plan that focuses on wrecking as much of Valinor's overall fleet as possible. The logic, again, is that Transports and Mass Conveyors are heavily defended, so don't target them - Attack where they're weak - Their light elements, not where they're strong. Don't target the Transports that they, uh, already expect us to target.
Or should expect us to target. Divination or not, you defend the Transports.
Here's the plan that focuses on wrecking as much of Valinor's overall fleet as possible. The logic, again, is that Transports and Mass Conveyors are heavily defended, so don't target them - Attack where they're weak - Their light elements, not where they're strong. Don't target the Transports that they, uh, already expect us to target.
Or should expect us to target. Divination or not, you defend the Transports.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
[X] Plan Wreck the Fleet
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
@Durin
1. Is my assumption that the Abomination Plans expect/anticipate us to target their transports accurate?
2. Omake purposes, how high-ranking should someone be to know the Abomination Battle Plans (or at least, a good/useful chunk of them)?
a. Is it practical for chaos people to infiltrate other chaos people? Like say a Tzeenthcian Psyker infiltrating an Abomination polity to do Tzzenthcian things.
3. Possibly relevant later in the battle - Are Decapitation strikes feasible? Just have the fleet focus-fire the ship with the General/Admiral onboard (Ridcully probably providing advise on which ship to target)?
1. Is my assumption that the Abomination Plans expect/anticipate us to target their transports accurate?
2. Omake purposes, how high-ranking should someone be to know the Abomination Battle Plans (or at least, a good/useful chunk of them)?
a. Is it practical for chaos people to infiltrate other chaos people? Like say a Tzeenthcian Psyker infiltrating an Abomination polity to do Tzzenthcian things.
3. Possibly relevant later in the battle - Are Decapitation strikes feasible? Just have the fleet focus-fire the ship with the General/Admiral onboard (Ridcully probably providing advise on which ship to target)?
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1. yes
2. all of the Rear-Admirals or Generals should know all of the plans while the Commadors and Marshals would know a lot of them
2a. yes it possible but hard
3. later yes, there is a good chance he is on a Battle Barge though and possessed Battle Barges are stupidly tough (I mean command battleship level tough here)
- Location
- The Bayou, Everglades
I think we want to contest the orbitals as long as possible, especially if we can fort up over Dis. While we have a presence we we can oppose their orbital support missions and conduct ones of our own* and we can intercept ram raids. It also makes it that bit harder for them to organise against our harrying forces picking away at them.
*Not decisive in 40K but still well worthwhile. Their forces on the ground will be in the open after all.
*Not decisive in 40K but still well worthwhile. Their forces on the ground will be in the open after all.
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
a balanced force
- Location
- Asia
I hope they land on Sun beetles. 
- Location
- The Bayou, Everglades
Damn. Well.
If the enemy really is underestimating the wildlife, then they are most likely right now to land their troops the farthest from our cities, which means the wildlife can take the greatest amount of pressure off our cities with the first wave. The enemy may learn and actually land closer with the second wave. So that's (probably) one reason we don't have to focus as much on taking out the transports this time around.
If we do manage to kill a bunch of transports and mass conveyors now, the enemy may consider that it'll take too many rounds of transport to get their army there and do something desperate. Such as attacking elsewhere.
And with the next update, we'll (probably) have the option of hitting the fleet along with our static defences, at which point it'll help more to have removed escorts than to have removed transports. Let's get the most use out of those defence stations and try to hold Dis void-space, because I'm still mostly concerned about those battleship kamikaze attacks.
We don't know for certain, and it took Garkill probably employing some kind of planet-scale bomb, a couple of battleships would only damage a bit of scenery around a city.
[X] Plan Wreck the Fleet
- Location
- Asia
Which they will if they don't want to come under AA fire.
[X] Plan Wreck the Fleet
[X] Medium- use everything but your armored warships to inflict as much damage as possible via ambushes and harassment tactics, be willing to accept some major clashes- This will inflict a significant amount of damage and not need Admiral Sarnow to be too blatant about using the information that Ridcully is providing him.
[X] Primary: Light Forces- The Light forces will be those that are trying to seek out your ambushes, and so will be the easiest targets. - Attacking the Light forces will be the easiest option and will reduce the Abomination Fleets ablity to deal with future harassment.
[X] Secondary: Targets of Opportunity - Try to cause as much damage as possible to the Abomination's overall navy, at the best possible casualty ratios.
[X] Make blatant of the information that Ridcully has gained form the enemies plans- Massive bonus and certain chance of them realising you have the plans.
[X] Medium- use everything but your armored warships to inflict as much damage as possible via ambushes and harassment tactics, be willing to accept some major clashes- This will inflict a significant amount of damage and not need Admiral Sarnow to be too blatant about using the information that Ridcully is providing him.
[X] Primary: Light Forces- The Light forces will be those that are trying to seek out your ambushes, and so will be the easiest targets. - Attacking the Light forces will be the easiest option and will reduce the Abomination Fleets ablity to deal with future harassment.
[X] Secondary: Targets of Opportunity - Try to cause as much damage as possible to the Abomination's overall navy, at the best possible casualty ratios.
[X] Make blatant of the information that Ridcully has gained form the enemies plans- Massive bonus and certain chance of them realising you have the plans.
- Location
- The Bayou, Everglades
Well, that's the question: Which is worse? AA fire, or wildlife? Or, how close do you get to the AA before it starts getting too accurate? How many days march through the wildlife is too much? Where's the sweet spot in-between?
Again with the assumption that our enemies are stupid. Perhaps it's correct, but I'd hate to be the guy who underestimates his enemy.
Let's think for a moment here. If we manage to kill a lot of the escorts, and the enemy realises that we are anticipating their movements, what are they likely to do then?
Keep the rest of the fleet closer to the transports? They're already in "tight formation around the transports". I suppose they might stray less from the transports to provide orbital support, that seems natural and likely enough.
And when attacking our defence stations they'll have to either leave transports behind, leaving them more vulnerable to our fleet, or take them with the fleet into the grinder, leaving them vulnerable to our orbitals. They'll probably go with whichever is the lesser evil.
But what else might they do?
Simplify their plans? I don't know how much simpler their game plan can get: Escort transports to Avernus, escort back to Valinor, repeat while enduring constant ambushes.
If they attack elsewhere they get to split our fleet and armies up, at the cost of splitting up their own forces, but they'll have to deal with less of Ridcully's precognition out of system and no wildlife. But I wonder if that would leave enough of their forces left to even get through the Avernus city walls. This might actually lower the attrition on their fleet, allowing them to stay in the fight longer. Of course, this strategic issue is far more complicated than can be summed up in a single (grammatically proper) paragraph.
Maybe they can just sacrifice a few more million of their citizens to have the transports possessed by Angyls. But they probably would have done so already if that was an option.
So far, I'm thinking the best idea for the enemy is to split their attack as soon as the Avernite orbital defences have been removed. Ridcully can't be everywhere. But I'm probably overlooking some other options. What would you guys do if we were playing Abomination Polity Quest?
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Full MAD.
As far as I can tell they've got very few hopes of beating us in a conventional manner, but they don't need to they just have to kill Lin, they're expendable as far as that is concerned.
If I was the General I'd sacrifice everything I need too to get that first circle angel on the field and crash the battleships, battlebarges and mass conveyors to make beach heads.
They can try for other methods, but anything else will get them savaged by the Wildlife or broken on our defences.
Of course that's what I'd do as the abomination player not knowing about what Avernus can do in full (I'll assume they don't for now) for example I wouldn't summon the first circle because that seems like it could get the Deep One in play.
Actually between oracle and with how many neo astropaths we have the delay in communications in the Core worlds wouldn't be very long.
That being said I don't think they could risk splitting their forces at least in the core worlds, even Alfheim could resist half of what they have quite well.
And even that's not likely to protect them much from Ridcully, if he just divines important areas of interest.
@Durin
1. What do the experts estimate Avernus will do in response to an Angyl of the First Circle being summoned?
2. How powerful is one of the First Circle? Exalted?
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- Location
- England
I really hope the exalted angel is actually a big name- think a top tier grey knight or Chekov or something. Chekov would be really cool.
- Location
- The Bayou, Everglades
We could focus on their battleships, instead, which would most effectively help in future engagements, and most immediately help us trim the number of heavy ships. Long-run, starting with the escorts seems more efficient, but do we have a long run? By the time we have destroyed enough of their fleet that we'll soon be able to engage in direct battle, that's the point when they're certainly going to enter MAD phase.
Our best bet against battleship kamikaze seems to be to not even let those ships enter the void-space above Dis. And our best current option for ensuring that they can't do this seems be to blatantly focus on the enemy battleships. But our best bet for ensuring that they won't try to take Dis' void-space is probably to go with medium, subtle focus on escorts. I suggest the latter, because they might be smart and go straight for MAD phase if they realise we know their plans and they'll have to deal with heavy harassment for the duration of this war, with greatly reduced escort forces to deal with this.
The idea is to wear down their fleets, then make an attack focusing on their battleships and cruisers that'll ensure that they simply can't take Dis' void-space, at which point their MAD option will be reduce by half their options. Although this plan might have too many moving parts to be relied on.
As for the ground-side: It seems likely that a single disembarkation is enough to summon a first circle Angyl, but are they going to do that immediately? What advantages do regular troops represent compared to the Angyl?
@Durin
1. Can the Abominites summon a First Circle Angyl on a mass conveyor?
2. Would such a daemon survive an orbital drop?
2a. Would it be injured?
3. How many troops are the enemy roughly transporting per disembarkation?
4. How many disembarkations will it take to transport their entire ground forces with their current transport capabilities?
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Ridcully divined that they won't change their plans.
- Location
- The Bayou, Everglades
Where? Can't find it.
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[X] Plan Subtle Ambush
If we want to catch the second wave, we need them to not be aware we are on to their plans. It will be easier to ambush them that way.
Further, their plans on the ground are still going to be important, and we shouldn't think that they won't make changes if they think we know their plans. Harassment on the ground will also be important, and that will be easier if they think we aren't on to them.
If we want to catch the second wave, we need them to not be aware we are on to their plans. It will be easier to ambush them that way.
Further, their plans on the ground are still going to be important, and we shouldn't think that they won't make changes if they think we know their plans. Harassment on the ground will also be important, and that will be easier if they think we aren't on to them.