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The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

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Teen Spirit said:
I got to ask why people keep saying Johanna wanted to talk about something with Rhaenyra since I think I said she just wanted Rhaenyra to stay in King's Landing until the baby was born.
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Iirc, "you get the feeling there's more to her request" when it happened, and something about the phrasing of the actual option in the same vein.
 
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Teen Spirit said:
Pushing Alicent towards Viserys so he'll marry her was just good politics in Otto's view. Alicent and Rhaenyra's romantic relationship is more complicated and basically a Quasi-Affair by Westerosi standards albeit without the risk of bastards the risk of scandal for Otto is much reduced.

Otto's absolutely willing to take advantage of the political gains he can get from this but it is an awkward subject for him to actually talk about.
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"Ah it's so good to finally be open about this with you Lord Hightower. Or should I be calling you Goodfather now?"
"...please don't call me that Princess."
"Ah just as well. This should put Alicent in a good mood though. And that's always wonderful. I remember when I won the tourney we had the most romantic horse ride-"
*Audibly uncomfortable Otto noises*


Teen Spirit said:
I got to ask why people keep saying Johanna wanted to talk about something with Rhaenyra since I think I said she just wanted Rhaenyra to stay in King's Landing until the baby was born.
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Prolly this sentence.
Teen Spirit said:
Her reasoning made sense, but part of you couldn't help but wonder if there was more going on she wasn't saying.
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...actually, hold on a moment. Would us casually going "I fear my uncle will do things to Gwayne" right after someone brazenly murdered six Maesters make Otto suspect we think Daemon did it? It's just... pretty conspicuous timing.

We do kinda have the precedent of going "do you think Daemon would not have killed you" at Otto that one time, but then, it was when they were off on an isolated island and Caraxes was the only dragon nearby.
 
[X] [Otto] Express fear that writing down a letter could put a target on Gwaynes back. You know Daemon would be reckless enough to go after him in order to keep control of the city watch. Offer to speak to Viserys expressing the same sentiments, and offer Gwayne a place at your side for the interim as a show of good faith.
 
Seems like another write-in has taken off but honestly, I'm pretty meh on it? It's trying too hard to be Weasley and clever IMO. Here's my attempt.

[x] [Otto] Give no ground. You've done huge favors for Otto and will continue to do so. Is he really going to spit on your goodwill over a letter?
 
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[x] [Otto] Stick with the Septa Plan, Agree to Write the Letter.

Voting against the write-in, for a couple reasons. First, as written it does not take a position on whether we're sticking with the Septa plan or agreeing to let Otto marry Alicent off after a decade. Second, when we were turn-planning we voted not to take Gwayne with us to Dragonstone and not to tell Otto about our suspicions of Daemon at this time. The write-in goes back on one or both of these things.

And now that Rhaenyra has discovered it, she should indulge her nun kink :V

[x] [The City] Take Part in the Horse Races
[x] [The City] Investigate the Screams

Horse-racing seems to me like a good way to plumb the politics of the King's Landing mob, plus it's a physical competition, something Nyra is good at and enjoys. And we'd hardly be a knight who remembered her vows if we did not investigate the screams.
 
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Yeah, this seems reasonable, and honestly, I don't like the Write in that mauch...
[X] [Otto] Stick with the Septa Plan, Agree to Write the Letter.

Ok, this one is locked in for me (and I guess most of the thread) ...
[X] [The City] Investigate the Screams

For the other action, I like the idea of a magic show, and I feel that we should take a memento of the escapade and/or a gift for Alicent...

[X] [The City] Take in a Magic Show

[X] [The City] Shop The Markets
 
Not entirely sure what the plan is for the people fearing Gwayne's assassination.

We take him away and then...what? The entire point of the deal with Otto is to give Gwayne influence, we'll essentially be whisking Gwayne out of the city and completely nullifying his ability to change or lead the City Watch.

Is the plan to just come back later? Daemon is gonna find out that Rhaenyra backed Gwayne, by letter or verbally either way, especially since the plan is to also tell Viserys that Daemon is a murdery lunatic that will kill Gwayne if given the chance.

Not to mention the "keep Gwayne near you as a sign of good faith" feels like another way of kicking the guaranteed Septa plan further down the line. Rhaenyra just telling Otto to trust her as she gives him an IOU City Watch Commander. Once again the worth of both of his kids would be completely up to Rhaenyra's whims.
 
my thing is, if Otto does what i think he might do and sabotages Daemon's guy, and Daemon finds physical evidence of Rhaenyra trying to push Gwayne for the position right before Daemon's guy even fucked up, i'm worried he's going to assume the worst and think that Rhaenyra went out of her way to directly fuck him over and okayed whatever Otto tries.

Daemon has a weird complex about family, and despite the animosity between them, does think of Rhaenyra as family (family he can't stand, but still family). we have to acknowledge that he could be doing much more to actively fuck over Rhaenyra; right now he's being more passive-aggresive, but if he thinks Rhaenyra has sided with the Hightowers to the point of "betraying family", he might get much worse much faster and he is a VERY vengeful man.

he doesn't even need to jump straight to murder. Gwayne will eventually participate in a tourney again, there will be plenty of opportunity for one in the future. all Daemon has to do is cripple him; maybe his horse gets spooked and we have a Willas Tyrell situation, maybe things get nasty in the melee and we get something like what happened with Joffrey, ruining Gwayne's reputation would also work.

this could all be me worrying over nothing and jumoing at shadows, it is very possible Daemon picks someone terrible enough to fuck up on their own, but i don't trust Otto not to get impatient and try to hurry the process.
 
Yeah, clearly Rhaenyra going to Viserys and telling him that Daemon is totally for real gonna murder Gwayne is the best way to make Daemon think we're on his side. Family first.

What exactly is the plan when Viserys handwaves that and says that Rhaenyra is letting Otto's paranoia get to her and that he knows his brother?
 
Alpaca27 said:
Yeah, clearly Rhaenyra going to Viserys and telling him that Daemon is totally for real gonna murder Gwayne is the best way to make Daemon think we're on his side. Family first.

What exactly is the plan when Viserys handwaves that and says that Rhaenyra is letting Otto's paranoia get to her and that he knows his brother?
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i had thought the write-in was suggesting we tell Viserys verbally about Gwayne being a good pick for the position, instead of writing it down; it achieves Otto's goal of Viserys keeping Gwayne in mind if/when Daemon's guy is ousted, without having anything written down on paper for Daemon to find.

if my reading is wrong on this and the write-in is suggesting we tell Viserys abt Daemon's involvement with the maester murders, then yeah, i'd rather bite the bullet and write the letter.
 
CharlieKing said:
i had thought the write-in was suggesting we tell Viserys verbally about Gwayne being a good pick for the position, instead of writing it down; it achieves Otto's goal of Viserys keeping Gwayne in mind if/when Daemon's guy is ousted, without having anything written down on paper for Daemon to find.

if my reading is wrong on this and the write-in is suggesting we tell Viserys abt Daemon's involvement with the maester murders, then yeah, i'd rather bite the bullet and write the letter.
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You are correct. The write in is to tell Viserys what we would otherwise write in the letter. I don't know where they got they idea that we'd mention Daemon to him, that would obviously be stupid.

It's just making a counteroffer for the Septa plan that doesn't force us to put it to writing, which could carry potentially lethal risk to Gwayne and severe but probably nonlethal risk to ourselves.
 
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Husr said:
You are correct. The write in is to tell Viserys what we would otherwise write in the letter. I don't know where they got they idea that we'd mention Daemon to him, that would obviously be stupid.

It's just making a counteroffer for the Septa plan that doesn't force us to put it to writing, at potentially lethal risk to Gwayne.
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Well both routes seeming equally terrible.

The writing itself is apparently what makes Gwayne becoming Commander "potentially lethal"? So Daemon would just otherwise be a-okay with it.

Clearly, Otto doesn't think that he can get Gwayne on without Rhaenyra's support. So if Viserys suddenly says yeah that Gwayne kid is pretty great, Daemon won't even bat an eye? Are we just supposed to cross our fingers that our conversation with Viserys will never come up?

When it seems very clear that Viserys is talking mostly with Daemon about who to appoint as Gold Cloak Commander?

Apparently, as long as Daemon doesn't see handwriting it's fine.
 
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To justify the write in a little more, I think it may make Otto respect us a little more. Right now it's

"Here! I got you a big gift, now give me your daughter!"

"Only if you do this."

"Sure!"

Which doesn't exactly do much to go against the perspective that Otto has of us as a blunt but confusing wildcard. Engaging in a little negotiation with his request makes us seem a bit more like what he's used to.
 
Alpaca27 said:
Well both routes seeming equally stupid.

The writing itself is apparently what makes Gwayne becoming Commander "potentially lethal"? So Daemon would just otherwise be a-okay with it.

Clearly, Otto doesn't think that he can get Gwayne on without Rhaenyra's support. So if Viserys suddenly says yeah that Gwayne kid is pretty great. Are we just supposed to cross our fingers that our conversation with Viserys will never come up?

When it seems very clear that Viserys is talking mostly with Daemon about who to appoint as Gold Cloak Commander?

Apparently, as long as Daemon doesn't see handwriting it's fine.
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Did you read the chapter? Gwayne is getting replaced no matter what. Otto wants our help to make sure, once Daemon's choice inevitability screws up, that Gwayne is the one who gets picked to replace Daemon's guy.

By the time that happens, no one besides Otto and Viserys will know or care what we said six months ago. But if there's a letter pinning us down, physical evidence that we and Otto expect Daemon's commander to be a temporary affair, then there's a rival that needs to be disposed of. It's the difference between evidence thats bound to come out and deniable hearsay that probably never will.

That's also why Otto wants it in writing, of course, but this is a negotiation.
 
Husr said:
Did you read the chapter? Gwayne is getting replaced no matter what. Otto wants our help to make sure, once Daemon's choice inevitability screws up, that Gwayne is the one who gets picked to replace Daemon's guy.

By the time that happens, no one besides Otto and Viserys will know or care what we said six months ago. But if there's a letter pinning us down, physical evidence that we and Otto expect Daemon's commander to be a temporary affair, then there's a rival that needs to be disposed of. It's the difference between evidence thats bound to come out and deniable hearsay that probably never will.

That's also why Otto wants it in writing, of course, but this is a negotiation.
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There's no replacing of Gwayne, he's literally just being considered for promotion. Did you read the chapter?

And I'm pretty sure that Daemon hearing about what we said, will absolutely care because it is explicitly our own words and influence on our father that would get Gwayne the job. Which is why Otto is asking us for it.

And again, deniable hearsay? Viserys is talking about this shit with Daemon right now, which is why Daemon's guy will get picked. And Viserys has literally no reason not to mention how great Rhaenyra's friendship is with Gwayne.
 
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[X] [Otto] Express fear that writing down a letter could put a target on Gwaynes back. You know Daemon would be reckless enough to go after him in order to keep control of the city watch. Offer to speak to Viserys expressing the same sentiments, and offer Gwayne a place at your side for the interim as a show of good faith.

I wonder if we save whoever that is, if we can recruit them? We need more loyal people for rhaenyra personally.
 
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