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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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[X] Plan The Devil Drives
[X] Plan respect
[X] Plan to the point

BoredMan said:
No, we don't. There are other Denarians and another Abyssal
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There seems to be a miscommunication. Let me try to rephrase. My thesis is that we know that Michael wasn't dispatched to Azhi Dahaka's situation. My reasoning is this:
1) No one could predict the abyssal exaltations. This means that no prior setup was possible (unless time travel, but let's not involve that for now).
2) Michael was sent out the moment exaltations were released (and presumably happened).
3) Michael's mission control is smart enough to know how long it would take him to get to where they are sending him, barring outstanding circumstances. This means they wouldn't send him where he wouldn't be able to get to in time to affect the situation
4) By the time we got to Azhi Dahaka, the situation was hanging by a thread, and Michael wasn't there by the time the situation was resolved, or would have been resolved with8ut our interference

From these, I make the conclusion that Michael wasn't sent to Azhi Dahaka in the first place. I make similar inference for Silver, and tentatively lean towards the same conclusion for this guy. This leaves the fourth abyssal as Michael's mission, or some other situation not directly related to the abyssals, but caused by their release. Best case he's using his Sword as a key to release some of the solar shards. Worst case (if he's still alive) he is defending the Outer Gates.
BoredMan said:
Not necessarily. I mean the Coins are probably nigh indestructible to start with I doubt humans could have them destroyed period. Also you meant Fallen not Denarian.
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I meant denarian fallen, not Fallen in general. Also, while hard to destroy, wizard magic is potent, at least within the continuity of this quest - enough to mess with perfect effects. If destruction of the coin meant release of the denarian angel inside to act freely on Earth, I think they would have tried that play long ago
 
Yog said:
There seems to be a miscommunication
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You said "Micheal wasn't dispatched to a Denarian operation" while doing a process of elimination. This statement is a guess on your part not a fact.
Yog said:
I meant denarian fallen, not Fallen in general. Also, while hard to destroy, wizard magic is potent, at least within the continuity of this quest - enough to mess with perfect effects. If destruction of the coin meant release of the denarian angel inside to act freely on Earth, I think they would have tried that play long ago
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You should clarify because Denarian are human host not Angels and you are using the words interchangeably.

The Coins are holding cells for literal Angels. They are also able to withstand Angels channelling their power through it without any apparent damage. Given the sort of people they travel with they probably have been subjected to countless instances of abuse both accidental and purposeful. They should be nigh indestructible, i'd expect the Fallen to have a good idea on whether or not that's true and if so, not bother with that sort of plan and depending on their exact mechanics destroying a Coin might necessitate destroying the Angel inside which would mean you'd need to be capable and willing to kill the Angel.
 
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There are two funny possibilities for the current debate. The first is that ahead of us lies a relatively low-level quest designed for an Abyssal of 1 essence. Not Molly. It is unlikely, but you never know. The second is that Michael is now on a completely different mission that has nothing to do with the Abyssal and we are all guessing in vain. I find this much more likely.
 
Ivar said:
The second is that Michael is now on a completely different mission that has nothing to do with the Abyssal and we are all guessing in vain. I find this much more likely.
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Yeah that's also a possibility. He may have been sent to deal with an unrelated situation to the Abyssals that was set of prematurely by the sky going dark everywhere and the world being thrown into a tizzy.
 
Just to take another swing at this, I don't think the other plans are wrong so much as not fully engaging with the context and opportunity to connect here.

This guy wasn't suicidal in the traditional sense, but he was obviously willing to spend his life to ensure this mission succeeded. I think what he's doing right now is taking another bite at the same apple.

I don't think protection is the whole of his motive here, or personal capability necessarily the most important part to focus on.
 
BoredMan said:
You said "Micheal wasn't dispatched to a Denarian operation" while doing a process of elimination. This statement is a guess on your part not a fact.
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I referred to the denarian operation that resulted in Azhi Dahaka's exaltation as "a denarian operation"
BoredMan said:
You should clarify because Denarian are human host not Angels and you are using the words interchangeably.
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Not all Fallen angels are denarians (those sent to Earth and held in the denarii). I am using "denarian" for both humans and angels, because there needs to be a word to differentiate them from other fallen angels.
BoredMan said:
The Coins are holding cells for literal Angels. They are also able to withstand Angels channelling their power through it without any apparent damage.
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Could I get a citation for the second sentence of the quote? Because as far as I know, the Rules and the threat of heavenly retribution are stopping denarian angels, not the enchantments of the coins.
 
[X]Plan backup

Yeah, I have negative interest in exposing personal details to this person. On some level I'm surprised that we're making arguments to convince him of anything he can't stop us from following him and unless he wants to abandon his mission we can just walk behind him or fly.

At least this option allows us to recharge while we wait for him to immediately run into a Supernatural threat and us to save him because the charms he has displayed so far do not lend themselves well to being in combat with an outer God especially when paired with the fact that he's seemingly isn't in the loop on Magic.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Anaja on Mar 28, 2025 at 10:55 AM, finished with 58 posts and 9 votes.
  • [X]Plan backup
    -[X] Offer to help, even if you don't know all the details this sounds right up your alley
    --[X][Stunt]"Sounds like the sort of thing I want to stop as well. I have come more than halfway around the world to get here. This will be my second imminent apocalypse in as many months. I do hope that they aren't becoming more common. Still I want to help and you want me to be safe so how about we compromise?"
    --[X]You uncork a small valve pour a bit of bleach powder in then pour some of the newly melted water.
    ---[X]"I'll be safe in here, but still able to provide you back up if you need it. Carry and break glass in case of emergency. Can use a rest anyway. I just flew across half the world and boy are my arms tired."
    ----[X]Then RVD into valve of bleach water.
    [X] Plan The Devil Drives
    -[X] Offer to help, even if you don't know all the details this sounds right up your alley
    -[X] FPoR
    -[X] [Stunt]: Straightening up Molly met his gaze directly, drawing the certainty and power that had become as much a part of her as her hands and feet about herself like a cloak. For a moment something emerald flashed in her eyes, like a narrow look from a distant star.
    —[X] "Not like them."
    -[X] Allowing the mark on her forehead to reveal itself, Molly continued. "I had a day like this once. Not the same. Never the same. But for all the difference among the exalted some things we seem to share." For a moment her mind drifted back to a very different frozen waste. "I didn't die. I failed"
    -[X] "The important thing is that whatever trial made us; all that it took, all that it gave, and all that it changed, come hell or high water we remain."
    —[X] "You are not a monster, and you do not have to stand alone"
    [X] Plan respect
    -[X] Offer to help, even if you don't know all the details this sounds right up your alley
    --[X] STUNT: "Thank you. For trying to protect me, without even knowing who I am, thank you. I respect the sacrifice you made in defense of Creation, the price you paid." you say, words heavy and measured: "And I am sorry that neither I, nor any other was here to help you then. But I am here now, and so, please, let me help"
    ---[X] "So, let's go - we have lots of work to do. You can tell me what you know of what awaits us as we go, if you please - maybe I'll be able to provide come context. I know a lot about supernatural and things sleeping in the dark corners of Creation"
    ----[X] "And if we are in a hurry, and we are, tell me where to go - it'll be faster for me to fly us"
    [X] Sympathy for the Devil-Tiger
    [X] Plan to the point
    -[X] Offer to help, even if you don't know all the details this sounds right up your alley
    -[X] STUNT: "The general name for what we are is 'Exalted', and yes, now you can do more now. Will be able to do much more later, as I can attest after nearly a year of doing this" - you not quite snark, before extending a hand: "I, for example, learned to fly, which is a much faster way to travel. So, choose a title for me to address you by, and grab my hand - we have a monster to keep down"
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Degorium said:
[X]Plan backup

Yeah, I have negative interest in exposing personal details to this person. On some level I'm surprised that we're making arguments to convince him of anything he can't stop us from following him and unless he wants to abandon his mission we can just walk behind him or fly.

At least this option allows us to recharge while we wait for him to immediately run into a Supernatural threat and us to save him because the charms he has displayed so far do not lend themselves well to being in combat with an outer God especially when paired with the fact that he's seemingly isn't in the loop on Magic.
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They're not useful details, and they're public information already in terms of what actually happened in Arctis Tor.

It's not like I'm introducing him to Usum and talking about how Molly is Theion's dumpster baby.
 
Yog said:
I referred to the denarian operation that resulted in Azhi Dahaka's exaltation as "a denarian operation"
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Your statement was you using process of elimination to say that Micheal had to have been deployed to deal with a dark messiah because he hasn't been shown to be dealing with some previously seen scenarios. Your statement was incorrect for a variety of reasons, including the fact that Micheal may have been sent to deal with a Denarian operation, which your statement directly said he wasn't.

Yog said:
Not all Fallen angels are denarians (those sent to Earth and held in the denarii). I am using "denarian" for both humans and angels, because there needs to be a word to differentiate them from other fallen angels.
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Denarians are human host. Some Fallen are in Coins some aren't. You can either specify or be deliberately confusing.

"denarians would have had their hosts destroy the coins way before now"

This doesn't work. Replace Denarians with "the Fallen" and it would have read very clearly because only the Fallen in the Coins even have host.

Yog said:
Could I get a citation for the second sentence of the quote? Because as far as I know, the Rules and the threat of heavenly retribution are stopping denarian angels, not the enchantments of the coins.
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I'm not going to lie. I am getting kind of annoyed that when people don't know something they don't go looking and instead ask for a citation. People aren't going to have random statements on hand so when you ask guess what they are going to be doing? When I don't know what people are referring to I just look, like I did when I was talking to DP earlier about the Rules and what he was saying didn't make sense to me, because clearly if I have the time to be on a forum typing up paragraphs I have time to look around for a specific statement.


It seems to me that as long as the Church has some of the coins, those paerticular Denarians are neutralized. Doing a Mt Doom with the coins might free up the spirits housed within to act freely in the world.
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Well. Not quite freely, but MORE freely, certainly. The Fallen bound in the coins are the freaking elite of Hell–everyone the big D didn't want trying to stab him in the back, basically. If they were suddenly freed it would do all kinds of horrible things to about a million balances of power, with repercussions that would last for centuries.

Which assumes that they /can/ be destroyed. I mean, don't think that in 2,000 years, no one has ever TRIED it. And there are still thirty of them kicking around.
Which isn't necessarily to say that it's impossible. But it sure as Hell wouldn't be easy. And given that, while in the coins, they ARE effectively frozen in carbonite without a human agent to assist them, containment certainly seems to be a prudent course.
Funny you should mention that whole notion about redeeming Lasciel . . .

-Jim
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Source.
 
BronzeTongue said:
They're not useful details, and they're public information already in terms of what actually happened in Arctis Tor.
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Unless Mab is giving out information about how she got outmaneuvered by essentially a group of Mortals it's really not. We essentially escaped from the heart of Winter's power while being a direct prisoner of the queen of Darkness while directly absconding with one of her Treasures the only people who know exactly what happened are the ones who were there dresden's not going to tell anybody and neither are her parents.

And yet the importance of the information doesn't matter we have no reason to give it to it even if it was literally what we ate for breakfast this morning I wouldn't want to talk to him about it there's no reason to. This is just based on everything I've seen to him so far he is someone who is completely out of his depth meeting someone who directly called him a designator in a language that he's never heard revealed that she had magic of knowledge beyond what he knows and he still seems to be underestimating us there's no reason to tell him anything.

Some people just have to learn by going into the fire or by seeing, I'm looking forward to watching a day cast attempt to fight an outer God and immediately fucking fall on his face because seven dots of charms and an Excellency is powerful if you're a Daybreak not particularly so if you used three of them on stealth charms man he's going to need help and to be honest I don't want to fight an outer God on a battery so light.
 
Why are you expecting an outer god? We'll be fighting Shoggoths and his Dread army of Albino Penguin ! Or whatever the Fomori are. But I highly doubt we'll be fighting anything of the caliber of Primodials there.
 
Ivar said:
Why are you expecting an outer god? We'll be fighting Shoggoths and his Dread army of Albino Penguin ! Or whatever the Fomori are. But I highly doubt we'll be fighting anything of the caliber of Primodials there.
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The fomorians are trying to awaken this being. Being an outer God is not like being a primordial by any stretch. They're just particularly powerful deities directly attached to the outside or like raksha Nobles that have managed to get inside of creation and have an identity that are related to the outside in some way. Shoggoths or greater dread armies of beings are also the possibility but I wouldn't want to fight any of those things on a low tank either.

He's still going to eat shit pretty badly simply because his caste charms aren't going to help him out particularly much in a fight he'll be essentially fighting with an Excellency that's if he has a gun or some kind of throwing knife for Athletics based weapon. If he does have a weapon of some type and an Excellency to go with it he'll do better but the fomori and their patrons are fond of magic and he has no knowledge of the stuff unless he has some kind of shaping defense as well but yet again we're getting pretty far outside of the seven starting dots of charms an exalted gets to get all of those.

Though all of this is just based on what we've seen so far. He has no armor he has no weapon he spent half his starting charm Budget on a stealth charm and he's attempting to stop a powerful entity from being awakened by the fomori. He could be good in a fight for all I know but it's not looking particularly Grand from a starting character's perspective.
 
Degorium said:
Snip
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Well, I'm talking about the Outer Gods, like in Lovecraft's original source material. They're definitely not on the level of the noble Raksha. They're much higher. If there's something like the now-deceased primal Finnish god of the seas, then he's more like Cthulhu.

Otherwise, I'm joking and basing my theory on the fact that there should be a difficulty level for him, not for Molly.
 
Degorium said:
Unless Mab is giving out information about how she got outmaneuvered by essentially a group of Mortals it's really not. We essentially escaped from the heart of Winter's power while being a direct prisoner of the queen of Darkness while directly absconding with one of her Treasures the only people who know exactly what happened are the ones who were there dresden's not going to tell anybody and neither are her parents.

And yet the importance of the information doesn't matter we have no reason to give it to it even if it was literally what we ate for breakfast this morning I wouldn't want to talk to him about it there's no reason to. This is just based on everything I've seen to him so far he is someone who is completely out of his depth meeting someone who directly called him a designator in a language that he's never heard revealed that she had magic of knowledge beyond what he knows and he still seems to be underestimating us there's no reason to tell him anything.

Some people just have to learn by going into the fire or by seeing, I'm looking forward to watching a day cast attempt to fight an outer God and immediately fucking fall on his face because seven dots of charms and an Excellency is powerful if you're a Daybreak not particularly so if you used three of them on stealth charms man he's going to need help and to be honest I don't want to fight an outer God on a battery so light.
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We stole control of time from Winter in the heart of their power. It was as public as nuclear blast in a major city. Also, note that I don't actually have her go into any detail out loud. She mentions she failed instead of died, that's it.

The point of sharing it is to help build a connection and indirectly deflect his whole competence question.
 
Ivar said:
Well, I'm talking about the Outer Gods, like in Lovecraft's original source material. They're definitely not on the level of the noble Raksha. They're much higher. If there's something like the now-deceased primal Finnish god of the seas, then he's more like Cthulhu.
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The outer gods in Lovecraft makes sense for a story they don't really make sense when God is real if that that statement is congruent right, and the Outer Gods that were active are pretty much like Rakasha Nobles maybe on the level of Balor but like not actually that far off from what they could do to reality and to the people in it.
BronzeTongue said:
She mentions she failed instead of died, that's it.

The point of sharing it is to help build a connection and indirectly deflect his whole competence question.
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Yeah I don't want to do that. He's done nothing to deserve any level of deflection his competence is directly in question not ours we are the ones who can fly not him we are the ones who came for him not the other way around we are the ones who can tell the fomori were here and what their name was not him.

It's just not necessary for us to deflect at all to him or expose any level of failure or failing to him. Yet again the details don't matter us hijacking the flow of time in the heart of Winter doesn't matter the only ones who would be able to tell that we did that are Mab and the people who were there.

All of this to say that I just don't believe we can forge connection with him through this sympathetic dialogue nothing I've seen so far seems to suggest that's the case. Some people only learn when they feel the fire/ Touch the pan. All of that on top of the fact I don't want to go into a fight with lower essence just because.
 
Degorium said:
Though all of this is just based on what we've seen so far. He has no armor he has no weapon he spent half his starting charm Budget on a stealth charm and he's attempting to stop a powerful entity from being awakened by the fomori. He could be good in a fight for all I know but it's not looking particularly Grand from a starting character's perspective.
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Well it hasn't been awakened yet. Maybe this stealth mission will stop it from happening without having the fight the awakened one.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Mar 28, 2025 at 12:30 PM, finished with 70 posts and 10 votes.
  • [X]Plan backup
    -[X] Offer to help, even if you don't know all the details this sounds right up your alley
    --[X][Stunt]"Sounds like the sort of thing I want to stop as well. I have come more than halfway around the world to get here. This will be my second imminent apocalypse in as many months. I do hope that they aren't becoming more common. Still I want to help and you want me to be safe so how about we compromise?"
    --[X]You uncork a small valve pour a bit of bleach powder in then pour some of the newly melted water.
    ---[X]"I'll be safe in here, but still able to provide you back up if you need it. Carry and break glass in case of emergency. Can use a rest anyway. I just flew across half the world and boy are my arms tired."
    ----[X]Then RVD into valve of bleach water.
    [X] Plan The Devil Drives
    -[X] Offer to help, even if you don't know all the details this sounds right up your alley
    -[X] FPoR
    -[X] [Stunt]: Straightening up Molly met his gaze directly, drawing the certainty and power that had become as much a part of her as her hands and feet about herself like a cloak. For a moment something emerald flashed in her eyes, like a narrow look from a distant star.
    —[X] "Not like them."
    -[X] Allowing the mark on her forehead to reveal itself, Molly continued. "I had a day like this once. Not the same. Never the same. But for all the difference among the exalted some things we seem to share." For a moment her mind drifted back to a very different frozen waste. "I didn't die. I failed"
    -[X] "The important thing is that whatever trial made us; all that it took, all that it gave, and all that it changed, come hell or high water we remain."
    —[X] "You are not a monster, and you do not have to stand alone"
    [X] Plan respect
    -[X] Offer to help, even if you don't know all the details this sounds right up your alley
    --[X] STUNT: "Thank you. For trying to protect me, without even knowing who I am, thank you. I respect the sacrifice you made in defense of Creation, the price you paid." you say, words heavy and measured: "And I am sorry that neither I, nor any other was here to help you then. But I am here now, and so, please, let me help"
    ---[X] "So, let's go - we have lots of work to do. You can tell me what you know of what awaits us as we go, if you please - maybe I'll be able to provide come context. I know a lot about supernatural and things sleeping in the dark corners of Creation"
    ----[X] "And if we are in a hurry, and we are, tell me where to go - it'll be faster for me to fly us"
    [X] Sympathy for the Devil-Tiger
    [X] Plan to the point
    -[X] Offer to help, even if you don't know all the details this sounds right up your alley
    -[X] STUNT: "The general name for what we are is 'Exalted', and yes, now you can do more now. Will be able to do much more later, as I can attest after nearly a year of doing this" - you not quite snark, before extending a hand: "I, for example, learned to fly, which is a much faster way to travel. So, choose a title for me to address you by, and grab my hand - we have a monster to keep down"
Click to expand...
 
BoredMan said:
Your statement was you using process of elimination to say that Micheal had to have been deployed to deal with a dark messiah because he hasn't been shown to be dealing with some previously seen scenarios. Your statement was incorrect for a variety of reasons, including the fact that Micheal may have been sent to deal with a Denarian operation, which your statement directly said he wasn't.
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First, of all, please confirm that by "a Denarian operation" you mean the operation that resulted in Azhi Dahaka's exaltation. If so, explain your reasoning, because I laid out mine and have yet to see a refutation.
BoredMan said:
Denarians are human host. Some Fallen are in Coins some aren't. You can either specify or be deliberately confusing.

"denarians would have had their hosts destroy the coins way before now"

This doesn't work. Replace Denarians with "the Fallen" and it would have read very clearly because only the Fallen in the Coins even have host.
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Please point me to where the terminology has been established. As far as I can tell, it's correct to refer both to the host and to the Fallen in the coin as a denarian, which itself is a shorthand for "member of the order of the Blackened Denarius".
BoredMan said:
I'm not going to lie. I am getting kind of annoyed that when people don't know something they don't go looking and instead ask for a citation. People aren't going to have random statements on hand so when you ask guess what they are going to be doing? When I don't know what people are referring to I just look, like I did when I was talking to DP earlier about the Rules and what he was saying didn't make sense to me, because clearly if I have the time to be on a forum typing up paragraphs I have time to look around for a specific statement.
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I am aware of that quote. Yet, we also had statements that if one was to send a coin up in space, it would eventually just teleport back. And Lasciel was able to whisper into Harry's mind from afar, breaking the Rules. So the Fallen clearly have some manner of agency while in the coins and not attached to a host.
 
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Arc 15 Post 90: Reaching Through the Cold
  • Threadmarks
    • Reaching Through the Cold ​

    14th of March 2007 A.D.

    A soft ping in your earphones informed you of the time. It was midnight for whatever midnight meant under these slow changing skies. One foot in the door, now it's time to get the other, you sigh: "Sounds like the sort of thing I want to stop as well. I have come more than halfway around the world to get here. This will be my second imminent apocalypse in as many months. I do hope that they aren't becoming more common. Still I want to help and you want me to be safe so how about we compromise?"

    A tilt of the head, as though he can't quite believe what he's hearing is the man's only answer.

    That's nothing, watch this. You let the challenge shine in your eyes as you uncork a small valve pour a bit of bleach powder in then pour some of the newly melted water: "I'll be safe in here, but still able to provide you back up if you need it. Carry and break glass in case of emergency. Can use a rest anyway. I just flew across half the world and boy are my arms tired."

    Before he can answer you slip inside, though not for long as he shakes the vial, then again, insistently.

    "What?" you pop back out head tipped back as though disappearing into a container a hundred times too small by volume is entirely ordinary.

    "Where I am going I will not take you..."

    You open your mouth to argue, close it and then in a flash realize what he means, what he's trying not to show, out of reflex one imagines not so much for the sake of a strange girl he had seen flying over the ice. He was still planning to die when all was said and done only this time he would take with him the monster which before he could only unveil.

    None of the others had been, but then again the others had faced death at the hand of another not their own. That kind of resolve... you don't know what it takes and to be honest you don't want to know. The closest you had come to it was on that tree and even then you hadn't really wanted to die, just for the pain to stop.

    There are answers you could give and arguments you could make, from reason, from philosophy and faith, but you recognize that you do not know the one who had been Valentin Ramero, what he's suffered nor what he is fighting beyond the barest hint of an answer so instead you appeal to something far more solid, sheer stubbornness: "Well you can either take me or I'll go myself, I can fly you know and you aren't exactly inconspicuous, most of the time at least."

    "Why? Why is this so important to you?"

    "Because I seem to have gotten lucky," you say to his surprise and so you pause, just long enough that he starts to ask for an explanation and then apace continue: "Because the power you took on that is moment and object all at once, the Exaltation is eternal."

    "How...?" the word is almost lost to the wind, but you can read it on his blue-tinged lips.

    "Always to the dying, always to those on the cusp of great deeds, or who have done great deeds already." That much you had managed to guess from the flash of it emerging from the waters below and asking Silver, to continue would be less even than guesswork.

    "Great deeds," he shakes his head again, though this time more in wonder than surprise as though to cast off an unwelcome thought with the swirling ancient snow. "Alright, alright, I've seen you can fly, do you have a way to cut though rock if you need it to get away?"

    The soft thump of brass displacing air if your answer.

    "Sword, right. Of course you'd have a sword." He doesn't speak the next words, but these too Clippy can read on his lips: "Por qué no pudieron ser unos malditos extraterrestres?" Why couldn't it have been damn aliens?

    "Well," you answer a touch grimly. "If the past is another country then the age in which the Exaltations were first kindled might as well be a different planet."

    "So what else can you do?"

    [] Write in as much or as little of your abilities you wish to share to try to get him to reciprocate

    OOC: Hope Google Translate didn't lead me wrong on the Spanish, that felt like it was the kind of sentiment that would work better in the speaker's native language.
     
  • Threadmarks
    • Great, success and we can move forward in the alliance. And most importantly, no unnecessary movements and words of sycophancy. It was solid.
     
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