The Path Unending (A Cultivation Quest)

So I went back to see if the Sage of Hidden Truths had anything to say about EiT and
So the ocean came to reclaim the throne from the Shining Lady, after all. Many times she was warned that his power was not solely in the waves below, but she refused to listen.
This feels extremely relevant. I wonder if the Emperor in Tides might've been a Herald who spoke to the Sage himself. The tides are an eternal cycle like SiR seems to be. And it makes sense that the next emperor would sensor him to try to bury knowledge of Time if he did end up becoming part of the Symphony.
 
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[X] I will approach the grandmother as an appreciator of her craft and focus on her skill. By determining how she got so skilled, some light may be shed on what's going on here.

It's what Zhi would do. Or well, it's what I want to be what Zhi would choose to do.
 
There's not a lot of evidence for it yet, but I'm starting to suspect the Emperor-in-Tides might have been a Time artist (likely secondary rather than primary like us). This village might have been an excellent place to hide from the Empress-in-Silver, and the whole damnatio memoriae thing makes me think of my theories regarding cleanups after [Redacted] being related to Time Artists. There's also a quote from the Sage of Hidden Truths about the EiT's power not residing "solely in the waves below." The invasion of the Emperor-in-Fear and conquest of Harmony might have been sufficiently bad to have been a tragedy associated with the Symphony-in-Rags, too.

But it's all just theories until we learn more.
 
There's not a lot of evidence for it yet, but I'm starting to suspect the Emperor-in-Tides might have been a Time artist (likely secondary rather than primary like us). This village might have been an excellent place to hide from the Empress-in-Silver, and the whole damnatio memoriae thing makes me think of my theories regarding cleanups after [Redacted] being related to Time Artists. There's also a quote from the Sage of Hidden Truths about the EiT's power not residing "solely in the waves below." The invasion of the Emperor-in-Fear and conquest of Harmony might have been sufficiently bad to have been a tragedy associated with the Symphony-in-Rags, too.

But it's all just theories until we learn more.
("damnatio memoriae" = "condemnation of memory" for those who don't know Latin. Kreen is referring to the Emperor in Ice wiping all records of Tides, similar to the threat Siani made to Zhi if he told anyone about REDACTED.)

One theory from Discord is that Tides usurped Silver's power over the moon. To quote Kreen on discord, "the kid playing the 'Court of Tides' claimed the Truth of the Moon as his technique to defeat the HiS".

So it's possible that Tides used Sage weirdness to usurp the power that Silver had used to defeat him before, by using his connection to the moon via the tides.
 
[X] I will approach the grandmother as an appreciator of her craft and focus on her skill. By determining how she got so skilled, some light may be shed on what's going on here.
 
[X] I will approach the grandmother as an appreciator of her craft and focus on her skill. By determining how she got so skilled, some light may be shed on what's going on here.

I like to imagine that Zhi walks up to her wanting to see if she's seen or noticed anything weird, only to get distracted by his artisan genes and start asking questions.

I hand Sunswift's reins back to her. "Did you see anything?" I ask.

To my disappointment, she shakes her head. "I saw a great many things," she sighs wistfully, glancing up towards where the stars are hiding behind the sun. "But no visions like what you described."

I'm not surprised, yet I let out a mournful sigh anyway. "But why would I see them if you could not?" I murmur. "Was it the location? Perhaps it was something about the wagon that triggered the visions. It could be our core compositions… but you've Star Anam in your core. If anything, it should be working better for you…"
Interesting. The way I figure it there are three possible explanations for why Daiyu isn't getting the visions.

The most likely case is that Zhi is simply built different. Yes, on paper the Twilight Horizon would be more powerful in the hands of a Star Artist, but Zhi has more experience with Time Anam; his sixth sense is better and specifically he has a history of gaining knowledge from alternate versions of himself from Shatter the Mirror. This particular scenario is almost tailor-made for Zhi's wheelhouse.
(almost as if he's the protagonist of the story)

Another possible explanation is that this is the first "time" that Mei Daiyu has called upon the Twilight Horizon while within the timeloop. The Technique was learned from memories, and when Zhi learned it he described Ma Rongjie using it to "engrave something into his memory". Zhi welding his experiences in Shoubiao's Wake into his soul and later reclaiming them with the Twilight Horizon would explain why he got visions and Mei didn't. The good thing about this theory is that it's going to be tested very soon, unless we somehow manage to figure out how to break the timeloop within one cycle.

The third and final explanation I can think of is rather simple and dull. Both Mei and Zhi have incomplete versions of the Twilight Horizon, both of them learned it from the Astral Paragon's memories and both of them saw a different spread of said memories. There is a nonzero chance that the two of them have a slightly different functionality of the technique on account of learning it from different memories. A bit like how an incomplete SEG allows you to block some, but not all of your senses. Maybe Zhi got the "get knowledge from alternate timelines the Stars witnessed" package while Mei instead got something like, I dunno, "wisdom engraved from the treeroots into the Earth". This explanation appeals to me less than the other two, but I can't say it isn't a possible explanation.
 
[x] I will approach the grandmother as a Caretaker approaches a contact. She's been sitting her for only the divine knows how long; she must have borne witness to something. It simply must be teased out with care and subtlety.
 
[X] I will approach the grandmother as an appreciator of her craft and focus on her skill. By determining how she got so skilled, some light may be shed on what's going on here.

It might be smart to try to be clever, but until we know this, we will be distracted.
 
Between the shown superhuman skill of the random granny in the middle of nowhere (and that despite the rather unhelpful weaver medium) and the fact that the local children have playing games referencing obscure historical events...

I find it likely that the Emperor-in-Tides was the contemporary of poor souls trapped there.

And them having heard of the Gossamer Blade I attribute to the same root as the fact that an ocassional outside does manage to reach the village and carry the tale of its existence (the shifting names across the years being proof of that).

The timeloop exists. But it is not perfect. It is a spiral, not a circle. There's a way out.
 
"I- I must muster the Truth of the Moon! It is the only way to defeat the Heretic-in-Silver!"
Someone pointed out on Discord that the kids call her the Heretic in Silver, while every other Emperor is just called Emperor/Empress. Mei calls her Empress when recounting the story. Even the Emperor-In-Fear isn't called a Heretic, despite also usurping Tides.

So what did she do to get called a Heretic?
 
[X] I will approach the grandmother as an appreciator of her craft and focus on her skill. By determining how she got so skilled, some light may be shed on what's going on here.
 
[X] I will approach the grandmother as an appreciator of her craft and focus on her skill. By determining how she got so skilled, some light may be shed on what's going on here.

[jk] I will approach the grandmother with loud yelling. People are most unguarded in the moment of surprise.
 
[X] I will approach the grandmother as a Caretaker approaches a contact. She's been sitting here for only the divine knows how long; she must have borne witness to something. It simply must be teased out with care and subtlety.
 
So a couple of things stand out to me.

If this time loop started around the time of Emperor-in-Tides' third reign, they would likely know about the Court of the Tide story. But if that happened, then they wouldn't know about the Gossamer Blade and the Mirror Hand, as that story occurred much later.

But if the time loop started after the story about the Gossamer blade and the Mirror Hand occurred, then this village shouldn't know about the Court of the Tide because of the censorship.

My current theory on how to reconcile this is that the time loop happened after the Gossamer Blade and the Mirror Hand story became popular. Then a relic detailing the story of the Emperor-in-Tides was either fished up or washed ashore by the village, except that the relic was potent with anam and triggered the time loop to try and achieve something.

Maybe a type of relic that a powerful spirit inhabited? Like what Zhuan Kun hypothesized had possessed Clerk Ni?

But then there is the issue that apparently the Sea is really great and purifying and destroying sensitive charms because of the salt content.

Questions, questions.
The village could have been a hiding place for Emperor-in-Tide loyalists as well, and that's why they know the story.

Though I do not see why they wouldn't know about the Gossamer Blade if the time loop happened during EiT's reign... I doubt Zhi is one of the first visitors here, and there may have been bards etc travelling through.

I wonder if the village elder just gives each clerk passing through a different name just in case someone decides to investigate:

"It is a small village that hasn't been visited in at least a dozen traditional testing cycles, and certainly not during the Grand Examination. And ancestors above, it seems that no one can decide on what it's called!"

Another map joins the first, this one labeled. "This one has it called Shoalwater," she states, glaring at the map as if it has done her a personal wrong. "Yet this one-" a third map joins the first two. "-dubs it Yin Chang. And this one-" another map is thrown on the pile. "-names it Shulin's Wake! No two maps have the same name for it!"
 
Though I do not see why they wouldn't know about the Gossamer Blade if the time loop happened during EiT's reign... I doubt Zhi is one of the first visitors here, and there may have been bards etc travelling through.
I don't think the time loop is the entire story, since for some reason this town isn't on the Zhaun maps, but is on the Imperial maps under multiple different names.

But they are probably getting some news, since Imperial mappers seem to have visited and then left.
 
[X] I will approach the grandmother as an appreciator of her craft and focus on her skill. By determining how she got so skilled, some light may be shed on what's going on here.
 
[x] I will approach the grandmother as a Caretaker approaches a contact. She's been sitting her for only the divine knows how long; she must have borne witness to something. It simply must be teased out with care and subtlety.
 
Torrent Raiders is probably the faction headed by the Emperor-in-Fear, so the game "Tides vs Torrents" is likely based on the story of the Emperor-in-Tides' reclamation of his throne the first time.

Heretic-in-Silver is, as already noted by others, likely the Empress-in-Silver. Names match up and even the style of how the names are written match up.

Heretic is an interesting name to give someone though. Strictly defined, it is an individual practicing a religion contrary to what the orthodoxy prescribes. Given how much weight and almost spiritual authority the Emperor is provided, the name heretic may very well be a reference to someone who goes against the Emperor. But perhaps in a way that is different than just common treason?

I think a better way to look at the name, however, is to think of it as someone advertising a falsehood as truth. If we approach the name in this way, it connects with what the child said and what Kun told us about the first usurpation by the Empress-in-Silver. The "Truth of the Moon" is such an interesting phrase that having both the child and Kun say it verbatim can't be a coincidence.

I think the name Heretic-in-Silver and the "Truth of the Moon" are two key phrases that relate to each other and hold some answers to what's happening in the town.
 
Someone pointed out on Discord that the kids call her the Heretic in Silver, while every other Emperor is just called Emperor/Empress. Mei calls her Empress when recounting the story. Even the Emperor-In-Fear isn't called a Heretic, despite also usurping Tides.

So what did she do to get called a Heretic?
To be fair, that might just be a matter of recency. Historically, she was definitely an Empress, and is objectively viewed as such by historians in the longer term, but assuming this village dates back to the time following fairly soon after her forced abdication and Tides' reclamation of the throne, it would be reasonable to assume that time hadn't exactly had the opportunity to mellow out opinions on her. The Emperor-In-Fear probably had several not-quite-as-nice titles in the period immediately following his reign as well.
 
Vote closed
Scheduled vote count started by Vesvius on Feb 19, 2025 at 7:10 PM, finished with 77 posts and 56 votes.
 
I don't think the time loop is the entire story, since for some reason this town isn't on the Zhaun maps, but is on the Imperial maps under multiple different names.

But they are probably getting some news, since Imperial mappers seem to have visited and then left.
Could be the Emperor-in-Tides pulled the memory of the village out of the memory of people in a certain area. If he pretended to be dead and wanted to cultivate in peace.

He wouldn't need to affect people in Harmony, because why would they visit the village at all? And maybe whatever-it-was that told the group to flee is the other defensive mechanisme to keep people away.

Anyway, it if the village people lived the same day or even month for centuries I imagine they'd go very depressed after a while.

The anam was unusually placid the first time so the best analogy I can come up with is that their lives are like a drawing on a beach. Once in a while it can stay there for quite long but if the anam is too disturbed a wave come and resets the whole thing and they have to start anew.
 
Though his tone is still dry, Zhuan Kun's eyes are alight with excitement. "It came to an end a decade later. The Emperor revealed himself to still be alive, and now unfettered by the responsibilities of ruling, had been able to successfully take the Sage's Step. Together with the surviving members of the Court of Tides, the Empress-In-Silver was once more deposed."
Wait, so the Emperor-in-Tides was just a Warlord during his first and second reign? And since Emperor-In-Fear and Empress-In-Silver were on similar power level, they might have been Warlords too. I expected Sage to be a base minimum for Emperor.
 
Wait, so the Emperor-in-Tides was just a Warlord during his first and second reign? And since Emperor-In-Fear and Empress-In-Silver were on similar power level, they might have been Warlords too. I expected Sage to be a base minimum for Emperor.

While Sage might be the baseline for current Emperors, the Emperor-in-Tides ruled a decent number of Emperors ago. With Artists being less constrained by mortal limits the more steps they take, it might have been a millennia since he ruled.

Ves also apparently mentioned on the discord that a teacher was Emperor at some point. So it's not just about being the most powerful necessarily.
 
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