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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Location
- Germany
[X] BronzeTongue
- Location
- Maryland
[X] Plan Recalibrated Response
BoredMan
Salutations thou who beds thy own mother
[X] BronzeTongue
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Another consideration here that I didn't really put in my modified vote; should we do something with LoV?
We're short on time, but these first few hours could be very important. Even if he'll keep the blamps might need some attention, cause it wouldn't surprise me at all if the reply to our current crown question is "right next to you" and his presence is already making them panic.
We're short on time, but these first few hours could be very important. Even if he'll keep the blamps might need some attention, cause it wouldn't surprise me at all if the reply to our current crown question is "right next to you" and his presence is already making them panic.
This is unfair and incorrect representation of what I am voting for on two fronts:
1) Harry, not "wizards"
2) Scrying using Molly as a focus is not "magical colonoscopy"
The point of that part is to have Harry, who has access to, and talent in Divination, to us Molly and his own free successes, to scry for abyssals. Which requires prep.
What are you going to do when a young abyssal spirit kills WInter Maiden mantle? Not Maeve, the mantle itself. Permanently breaking the balance between the courts and the whole dual maiden-queen-mother thing. Or even some of the lesser mantles. Like Arawn's mantle, whose job is to actively go after necromancers.
Oh, and we don't just have to talk about exaltations with Mab. I am calling her about LoV and Black Court first of all.
You can't have it both ways. Either you are using ExvsWoD Abyssal process, where it takes days for the exaltation to activate, the black exaltation is much closer to the solar one than in 2nd age, and Neverborn are very much not a factor in terms of control, or you are saying that abyssals are immediately a danger and an issue, and slaves to Neverborn. Right now you seem to be picking and choosing to come up with the worst possible scenario in terms of who and what exalted are, and how we have to interact with them.
BoredMan
Salutations thou who beds thy own mother
I don't think they'd be able to kill someone that high on the totem pole in combat after just spawning. Assuming they pick up a spirit killing ability too. This seems a bit ridiculous.
Why not? Maidens are not that tough, as far I can tell, and an abyssal right of chargen (assuming we go with "exaltation is instant") would have a total element of surprise, and access to spirit killers, and perfect attacks. @BronzeTongue argued that they may be a danger to our circle right out of chargen, if I recall correctly. Abyssals are deadly - this I agree with. And abyssal exaltations happen when someone is dying. So, the newly exalted killing the cause of their would-be death is very much appropriate. Even if they themselves don't survive the process.
BoredMan
Salutations thou who beds thy own mother
Why are you assuming they'd pick up spirit killers and perfect attacks from chargen when we didn't? Bronzetongue can explain what it is your referring to because I'm not rereading whatever it is for the context. This just seems so unlikely as to not be anything other than paranoia.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[X] The White Council
I think that we want to tell Odin as well as an explicit favor. He seems likely to be good at picking up his undead heroes.
I think that we want to tell Odin as well as an explicit favor. He seems likely to be good at picking up his undead heroes.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
No, but we haven't really felt the lack. Powerful attacks are generally good enough.
Outside of Source Code Compliance Protocol, no. Infernals don't get perfect attacks period. We can get a perfect damage effect with SInner Boiling Stare, but other than that there's nothing like it in our potential charmset. Abyssals are built differently.
Again, because abyssal exaltations happen when someone is dying. If they happen instantly, instead in a drawn-out process that takes days like described in ExvsWoD, then picking up charms that would deal with the situation makes sense. And that may include spirit killers.
My point is that if we are taking abyssals as a serious immediate issue, we should take them as a serious immediate issue, not flip-flop.
And my point with my plan is that we also have LoV to deal with, and inform people of. Which is why we need to talk to Mab.
BoredMan
Salutations thou who beds thy own mother
Maybe you somehow aren't aware even though your're in the thread quite a bit but most people do not perceive it that way.
Reread BronzeTongue's logic in his proposed vote. We can learn then act on that information instead of voting to spill preemptively which has bitten us in the ass before.
Why does Mab or anyone else need to know of LoV right this second?
A small note here. He's not currently moving, or talking, or really doing much of anything beside looking up at the sky. You guys would have to poke him into motion. Alternatively you could leave him like this and be confident he will not do anything for a while, which given that he is the essence and the 'soul' of the Black Court may be advantageous at least until you figure out what you want him to do and how.
I misread this as something you wanted more of the council on. I referred to it like that because the last time we did something like let a wizard use divination on us Arthur got a lot more than expected.
I'm not saying never say a word to her, I just want to get an idea of what's going on first. If things are going to go bad enough to get a major mantle killed immediately then I don't think a warning will make a difference in time. We'd need to intervene personally instead.
On the blamps, I'd at least like to see what our options are before making an announcement.
There are multiple different things going on here. In terms of how precisely they exalt I don't see how you reach an either/or situation.
This situation is one we have little insight on, and the Neverborn being "alive" means that they can make choices that influence the situation. It's entirely possible they have adapted to changing circumstances like they have in the past.
I think the Abyssals are a problem for multiple independent but interacting reasons. Briefly:
1) I still maintain the plain text of the castes and description of the exaltations makes the reading that they will go to people positively inclined to other people unlikely independent of all other factors.
2) A neverborn being around and having deliberately taken this action implies a being with the knowledge and motivation to make this situation worse. What we don't know are the resources it had available and the precise impact of the changing of ages, but not knowing isn't the same as knowing they have nothing.
Concluding that the Abyssals are in the same state as the ExWoD baseline is the same as concluding that adding coherent Neverborn back to the situation doesn't change anything. Which is possible, but unlikely and dangerous to presume without evidence.
3) My meta issue with being having to deal with being the weakest spec of Solaroid and the other exalts hedging us out. Which I admit to having been harsher scout than was warranted but I still think is a problem.
4) My general issues with celestials in relation to mortal societies that we should probably avoid getting into again.
I'm listing it out like this because I think we've had issues with conversations like this equivocating related but distinct lines of argument going both ways.
To confine this discussion to the second of these points; why do you think the hand of an active Neverborn wouldn't make things worse to the greatest extent it can?
There's a legitimate argument to be made that I'm being overly cautious about this particular issue, but I think you're engaging in some serious motivated reasoning to conclude that everything has to fine.
We have WoG that it's a perfect attack equivalent. Though if we want a more traditional one we still have time to tweak the FCF charm set to include it.
If they're going to kill someone immediately telling Mab won't make a difference faster than our own action would. I just want a vote break point after we acquire more information so we can make a more informed decision. Maybe we go to her immediately anyway, maybe we luck into some sort of opportunity and can steal a march on everyone before we have to share. Maybe something changes the game in a way we didn't expect, again, and there are other considerations to be made.
If we're doing this all in order anyway then in the case where we do want to go ahead with approaching the fey/Accorded Powers the IC time difference would be minimal.
What Are you talking about here? I don't quite understand.
How does this actually work with essence-using ARM? Lydia is supposed to get the information instantly, as long as she has a cooperating expert. Do you mean that he's unresponsive / catatonic enough that he doesn't count as cooperative? I need to know in case I need to remove it from my vote.
I don't understand how you can consider Infernals the weakest spec, or think others hedging us out can be an issue when the kingdom charm, VEE, bakemono-making charms and Prayer Eating combined make basically all other splats entirely irrelevant. Like, mote tapping via scale is the most lore-successful tactic ever.
I won't be getting into it again, yeah, but the focus on celestials is just strange to me. Celestial exaltations at least look at your character in some way. Dragonblooded ones are a matter of eugenics, and we all know where that leads.
EDIT:
You certainly implied that the procedure I proposed was invasive, unpleasant and potentially dangerous to Molly. Which is inaccurate.
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The expert does have to be able to communicate, the same way the library has to be open and not just a locked door yes, ARM is a way to get answers faster and more efficiently, but you are still drawing on your sources when you use it that way.
Ok, fair enough, let me remove this part from my vote then.
The issue is that we have two ongoing immediate crises running in parallel: the abyssals, and LoV. We can't leave LoV alone at all, even with Sanctuary team for security, otherwise we risk denarians or some other faction discovering him and making a move. But we need to go deal with abyssals. So, either split the party (Molly and Lydia go after abyssals, Tiffany babysits LoV), or involve someone else.
So, with the misunderstanding cleared (the scrying part is for Harry to do, using essence boost), are you willing to put it back into your vote? Because it's a rather critical thing that we can do immediately, with a significant chance for success, I think.
BoredMan
Salutations thou who beds thy own mother
The response you just gave was an argument built on semantics rather than how most of the thread perceives our ability to acquire perfect attacks.
When Arthur used his magic on us he learned that Molly is a virgin and got quite a bit of detail. You didn't clarify in your vote that only Harry was to be doing it either so I also read it that way. Potentially dangerous, I'm not sure how you read that.
I don't understand what you are talking about, sorry. Perfect attack is a specific term. We only get two in canon charm set of infernals: SCCP, which we have, and Sinner-Boiling Stare. What other perception is there?
My vote reads: "Tiffany calls Dresden, explains the situation, tells him to call White Council, asks him to prepare scrying ritual that'll use Molly as a focus". Tiffany asks Harry to do two things:
1) Call White Council
2) Prepare a scrying ritual with Molly as a focus. It is wholly separate from the "call white council". Though, ok, I could have separated the two more.
This isn't a ritual to poke Molly. It's a ritual to find others using sympathetic connections they have to Molly. If anything, the danger will be to Harry. And dangerous, well, there are risks to colonoscopy, including a mortality rate of about 3 in a hundred thousand procedures, which is not insignificant.
Is that how it was supposed to be read?
Because I agree with Bored on that one, the way it's written says "Harry calls the white council to prepare for a scrying ritual using her as a focus", not "Harry calls the white council and also prepare a ritual on his own in a completely unrelated manner"
The act of warning the white council and doing the scrying are in the same sentence, of course we're going to infer Harry is supposed to work with the white council on that one.
BoredMan
Salutations thou who beds thy own mother
...Nevermind man. I'm not even sure why the number would even matter to my original question and the context provided in me asking that question in my post right before it addressed to you.
We've had the ability to pick them up for quite some time and haven't. SCCP was not picked up with the intention of grabbing a perfect attack. Maybe if you read fictionfan's last post it would prove insightful.
The way it was parsed can be misunderstood rather easily, thanks for clarifying. @BronzeTongue are you going to add it??
Molly is not susceptible to
Edit: Crossed out "most things" after actually thinking about what you said.
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