The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest
I really don't think you are getting this. Ned lost because of things he could not predict. That LF was deliberately playing off the Starks and Lannisters to destabilize Westeros or that Lysa murdered Jon Arryn) and most importantly, was too scarred by his sister's loss and the murder of Rhaegar's children to risk even a child like Joffrey getting murdered in turn.
Also, GRRM was pressing his thumb on the scales to put the Starks in the necessary bad position (as he would later do to put Robb's campaign in difficulty). Stuff like Ned just happening to resign before Catelyn seizes Tyrion so that he's no longer immune to Jaime's reprisal in the street, or Robert taking himself off on the fateful hunting trip before Ned's in a position to tell him the truth.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
Okay, but that is not about "things outside his ability to predict" then anymore, though. That then is his own character trait.
Which would be the 'boneheaded' stuff I was talking about. Not like his resignation will actually help Daenerys.
Like, that is exatcly what I meant. It is very well possible Ned would have been fucked anyway, due to Littlefinger being a double and triple agent with his own agenda. But that still doesn't mean he covered himself in glory in KL. As Varys said: "It was your mercy which killed them".
(and yes, ofc, Varys just wants Eddard to go along with his plan, but there is a reason his argument has weight)
Again that was beyond his control. Anyone in his position would have been fucked. People often forget that Ned is much more flexible than he gets credit for. He's absolutely willing to lie or break oaths if pushed far enough or if the stakes are high enough. For example, he lied about committing treason to try to save Sansa and Arya, and Jon's very existence is proof of his willingness to bend the rules.
[] [Celebrate] Celebrate Your Success with Ser Tarly
Appreciate our mentor! Especially as he doesn't regularly train us any more so we have limited interaction. This is as momentous as first visiting Viserys after Aemma death. Especially important if we wanted to purse Qoren.
[ ] [Celebrate] Visit Your Father
It is always a safe choice to maintain our relation as heir.
[ ] [Celebrate] Spend Some Time With Alicent
We avoided Azel's excellent romantic future by prioritizing so let's pamper our Lady.
[ ] [Celebrate] Speak to Rhaenys The Queen Who Never Was (GM Discretion)
Nice new avenue of action. If we approached Rhaenys alone without Corlys when Laena was thought off we could succeed in our peace offering. So Rhaenys is more tempered and emotionally invested in regard to happiness to her children and can temper Corlys ambition. Part of diplomacy we can promise to concession like an SC seat to Rhaenys as Corlys love her sincerely and concession to Rhaenys may emotionally more important to him. We can approach a new diplomacy from Rhaenys for Velaryon sitting out their ambition or marriage alliance w/ Laenor.
[ ] [Trait] The Hard Work That Brought You Here
Diligent is the safe politically flexible choice that won't limit our morality or ambition only ensuring the grindset is keeping on.
[] [Trait] The Honor You have Been Given
Honorable side of politic is the pathway to many power... that some consider impractical. It's not a pathway Tywin Lannister would ever teach. Anyway Paragonmaxxing all the way baby.
[] [Trait] All That You Could Achieve
I am categorically against Ambitious trait whether in CK or any other game. We are the ambitious mind of Rhaenyra we don't need more in the trait. @Teen Spirit If it is alright to ask What advantage and drawback from ambitious? As the other two seems more apparent.
Appreciate our mentor! Especially as he doesn't regularly train us any more so we have limited interaction. This is as momentous as first visiting Viserys after Aemma death. Especially important if we wanted to purse Qoren.
[ ] [Celebrate] Visit Your Father
It is always a safe choice to maintain our relation as heir.
[ ] [Celebrate] Spend Some Time With Alicent
We avoided Azel's excellent romantic future by prioritizing so let's pamper our Lady.
[ ] [Celebrate] Speak to Rhaenys The Queen Who Never Was (GM Discretion)
Nice new avenue of action. If we approached Rhaenys alone without Corlys when Laena was thought off we could succeed in our peace offering. So Rhaenys is more tempered and emotionally invested in regard to happiness to her children and can temper Corlys ambition. Part of diplomacy we can promise to concession like an SC seat to Rhaenys as Corlys love her sincerely and concession to Rhaenys may emotionally more important to him. We can approach a new diplomacy from Rhaenys for Velaryon sitting out their ambition or marriage alliance w/ Laenor.
Hey we may offer non marriage concession. Rhaenys is more open in show canon and may offer free advice. Following show canon of unambitious Rhaenys we may able to patch thing up with Velaryon through Rhaenys level-headedness and political concession like SC seat without marriage. SC seat especially acknowledge Rhaenys leadership quality (matter to Corlys too) and prepare the Realm with woman leader (reactions may vary).
[ ] [Trait] The Hard Work That Brought You Here
Diligent is the safe politically flexible choice that won't limit our morality or ambition only ensuring the grindset is keeping on.
[] [Trait] The Honor You have Been Given
Honorable side of politic is the pathway to many power... that some consider impractical. It's not a pathway Tywin Lannister would ever teach. Anyway Paragonmaxxing all the way baby.
[] [Trait] All That You Could Achieve
I am categorically against Ambitious trait whether in CK or any other game. We are the ambitious mind of Rhaenyra we don't need more in the trait. @Teen Spirit If it is alright to ask What advantage and drawback from ambitious? As the other two seems more apparent.
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- Pronouns
- Reader
Rhaenyra, playing coy until after your Father's reaction was wise, but you better come clean before Viserys hears the story from someone else.
[] [Trait] The Hard Work That Brought You Here
I like honorable. Ned Stark is one of my favorite characters, and the entire situation with his fall has more to do with Grrm's lack of writing nuance beyond creating interesting characters and how it leaves him unable to make someone hand of the king without them meeting a terrible fate(it's what? Six now?) than it has anything do with Ned being an honorable man.
But Rhaenyra didn't become a knight because of honor, she became a knight in spite of it, because honor as the seven kingdoms considers it right now has no place for a woman knight in the minds of most of the realm. Rhaenyra became a knight through hard work, in the training yard, in vigorous planning, in the collecting of allies willing to support her, in the final exchange of words with her father, in the fulfillment of her other duties, and if not for a very particular storm of luck, it still might have not been enough, and isn't enough in the eyes of many.
Hard work yet remains before Rhaenyra, and we would be wise to bolster her ability to meet the demanding trials to come rather than obsess over the honorable or lose our reason to delusions of grandeur.
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- Location
- Canada
I know "nice guys finish last" is a popular narrative, but Ned wasn't inherently doomed just because he chose to conduct himself with honor
He lost because he trusted the wrong people (Littlefinger), because Sansa was naive, and because Joffrey is a sadistic wildcard
Similarly, Robb's Red Wedding happened because he promised a marriage to the Freys in order to secure their allegiance and then proceeded to not follow through on it
And then thought he could casually mend bridges in the aftermath and wasn't wary enough of exactly how pissed off they were
He didn't do this for honor either, the "honorable" thing for the standards of the time would have been to follow through on his initial promise to the Freys
He did it because he wanted to marry Jeyne
There are legitimate costs to choosing Honorable as a trait for Rhaenyra, I'm sure
It makes it more difficult (though not entirely impossible, I think) for her to go back on her word, act in bad faith, or betray trust and expectations
But the thing is, we're not looking to play Rhaenyra as someone particularly underhanded anyway
That Intrigue stat has gone rather ignored, and I don't see us coming back to it much
I'd be fine with Diligent
But not being able to easily put things aside or say "good enough" when we have so much on our plate absolutely has potential to be a problem of its own
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- Pronouns
- He
Could Ambitious could lead to conquering Dorne as a Goal?
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
OTOH our literal rival in Daemon may well be one of the most canny intrigue masters of the age though. While taking the honorable Dragon Knight persona to Daemon's "Rogue Prince" persona could potentially invoke a rather interesting literary contrast, I am reminded that the only reason why Aegon II and his children managed to survive Daemon's coup in Kingslanding was because Aegon was willing to keep someone like Larys Clubfoot in his employ, for better and for worse.
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We need to get our own spymaster independent of the small council, like how Otto has what's her name, M-something who used to be Daemons lover.
We have the gold to get something small off the ground and potentially find ways to bring in other income, but I have no idea how to get started on that.
Is Alys Rivers an intrigue specialist, or just magic? She's the best option I can think of.
We have the gold to get something small off the ground and potentially find ways to bring in other income, but I have no idea how to get started on that.
Is Alys Rivers an intrigue specialist, or just magic? She's the best option I can think of.
Temes1066
To Defy Gravity you must Let It Go
- Location
- Coleraine
He is only good at intrigue, when he is not being a chaotic gremlin, which is his default mode.
- Location
- Canada
The thing is, Rhaenyra's rather unlikely to ever be an Intrigue master regardless of whether she's got the Honorable trait or not
And also the idea that being honorable means that you're more vulnerable to enemy intrigue is honestly overstated
So even if I take it for a fact that Daemon is the most canny plotter in all the land
(Which for the record I'm doubtful of, his loyalists in the Goldcloaks speaks more to his cult of personality than it does his spymasteryness)
It doesn't really matter all that much in regards to this vote
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Imperious
Without the sun of my life
Some of Daemon's accomplishments in canon:
Managing to assassinate the lady of Runestone, managing to assassinate/fake the death of the heir to Hightide (depending on whether you go by show or book), managing to sneak into Kingslanding despite having a very distinctive appearance and being on the enemy most wanted list, managing to have the heir to the enemy throne assassinated, managing to orchestrate the coup of kingslanding, managing to stop any messangers getting to Aemond from kinglanding until Black takeover of the city was a fait accompli.
I'd honestly personally peg him as Larys' peer, complete with both of them managing a coup that ousts the enemy claimant from kingslanding in different points in time. Even in cases where everyone thinks he did it like Rhea and Laenor, it's because everyone can tell that he obviously had something to benefit from those deaths and already think he's a scumbag. No one ever actually manages to prove it or catch him in the act.
I was more thinking that having the Honorable trait might preclude us from being able to hire someone who would make a particularly effective spymaster, since those tend to be scumbags, hence my reference to Aegon II employing Larys and how Aegon II would have died during the coup, as Otto did, without him.
He has other accomplishments than just the coup, but even his obtainment of the loyalty of the gold cloaks aside, the coup must have been meticulously planned to have been as successful as it was. Otherwise messangers would have slipped through to Aemond or the conspirators wouldn't have been able to get all seven gate captains. Just having the loyalty of the guard in and out of itself wouldn't have been enough for such a success.
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Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
@Teen Spirit Just to be clear, if we pick Honourable Rhaenyra isn't going to start getting stress from doing things like courting her very pretty handmaiden instead of her lawfully wedded husband, right?
Because that would be a dealbreaker for my vote.
Because that would be a dealbreaker for my vote.
BoSPaladin
The Paladin
Blatant lies.
Most men would feast and laud their heirs for winning a tourney.
- Location
- United States
I like Ambitious: Frankly, I think it's the most IC for our Rhaenyra. Many of our primary goals revolve around acquiring and maintaining power - the SC position and then the Iron Throne. And these are not goals we'd have been culturally encouraged in - yet we want power in spite of that. Like:
This is a little ambitious.
There's also our defiant nature - there's been talk in the thread about permanently changing the Targaryen succession to a equal inheritance model, and that's an ambitious goal. Our general stance has been that if something we want goes against customs and traditions, we will go against customs and traditions and they will break before we do. That both requires power and is itself ambitious.
Ambitious is the most culturally-evil coded (both IRL and In Universe). And I'm by no means arguing that we should be willing to do immoral things in pursuit of power. However, I think that the combination of our morality and ambition is some interesting texture. An honorable romantic knight is a bit of a tautology. A diligent romantic knight isn't, but isn't necessarily any more interesting than a romantic knight. An ambitious romantic knight is a bit spicy.
And honestly, words like "grasping" and "power hungry" and just words to describe ambition in someone the speaker thinks ought to know their place.
This is a little ambitious.
There's also our defiant nature - there's been talk in the thread about permanently changing the Targaryen succession to a equal inheritance model, and that's an ambitious goal. Our general stance has been that if something we want goes against customs and traditions, we will go against customs and traditions and they will break before we do. That both requires power and is itself ambitious.
Ambitious is the most culturally-evil coded (both IRL and In Universe). And I'm by no means arguing that we should be willing to do immoral things in pursuit of power. However, I think that the combination of our morality and ambition is some interesting texture. An honorable romantic knight is a bit of a tautology. A diligent romantic knight isn't, but isn't necessarily any more interesting than a romantic knight. An ambitious romantic knight is a bit spicy.
And honestly, words like "grasping" and "power hungry" and just words to describe ambition in someone the speaker thinks ought to know their place.
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [Trait] The Hard Work That Brought You Here
[X] [Celebrate] Celebrate Your Success with Ser Tarly
It's been 6 hours.
[X] [Celebrate] Celebrate Your Success with Ser Tarly
It's been 6 hours.
I would like to note that due to SV quester brain, we have left a few things half assed now and then, most notably our research into Visenya and interacting with Steffon Redfort.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] [Trait] The Hard Work That Brought You Here
[X] [Trait] All That You Could Achieve
[X] [Trait] All That You Could Achieve
[X] [Trait] The Hard Work That Brought You Here
[X] [Celebrate] Celebrate Your Success with Ser Tarly
[X] [Celebrate] Visit Your Father
[X] [Celebrate] Celebrate Your Success with Ser Tarly
[X] [Celebrate] Visit Your Father
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- Pronouns
- Reader
[X] [Trait] The Hard Work That Brought You Here
[X] [Trait] The Honor You have Been Given
[X] [Celebrate] Celebrate Your Success with Ser Tarly
[X] [Celebrate] Speak to Rhaenys The Queen Who Never Was (GM Discretion)
[X] [Celebrate] Visit Your Father
[X] [Celebrate] Celebrate Your Success with Ser Tarly
[X] [Celebrate] Speak to Rhaenys The Queen Who Never Was (GM Discretion)
[X] [Celebrate] Visit Your Father
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