The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

Amusing how divisive this vote is, compared to "obviously we go Anakin Skywalker on Arnold's ass"

[X] Plan Obligations, Opportunities and Organized Violence
-[X] [Action] Feast
-[X] [Conversation] Speak With Isembard Arryn
-[X] [Action] Enter a Tourney as a Mystery Knight

[X] Plan Obligations, Opportunities and Organized Violence

[X] Plan Strong Allies

[X] Plan Actually Pursuing Our Goals Instead of Making Choices and Forgetting About Them.

and i'll approval vote
[X] Plan: Hearthfire

[X] Plan Socialite
[X] Plan Strong Allies

And the obsession with tourneys rears its head again... we have not even passed our first kingdom there is time for both training and a bigger tourney later, but we will not have another chance at speaking with the gilded falcon or making sure we warded off the vale rebellion.

I see that no one is interested in the stress levels, maybe I don't understand the CK's mechanics. But if we don't start soon, then when are we? If we don't, we are going miss opportunity either way.

We are only about 12 points from 50 stress, and we saw just how slowly and rapidly we can gain stress. We need to gets a handle on the stress before something bad happens. This is a song of ice and fire, we are in new territory with rhaenyra and story wise.

Annatar said:

Not really? They've had like, three to four genuinely crazy people in their bloodline, at least one of whom may have been made that way by brain damage, and another by severe psychological trauma. The rest are just like your average privileged nobility with far too much wealth and power, and with their own special brand of stick uo their ass from being absolute sovereigns with an ideology of Valyrian supremacy behind them.

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-1 rhaenyra is trying to be a knight, so brain damage is a very real possibility.

-2 you are right that rhaenyra wasn't considered insane, but she has a larger potential for insanity compared to other characters.

-3 wealth, power, status these things can easily lead to cruelty or unintended consequences.

rhaenyra has all three, While we are having rhaenyra be dutifully. We choose for her to she lose her temper and fight a trail by combat. Losing one's emotions lead to consequences that others see as cruel, just or in between. So we should be careful.

FallenDawn said:

-2 you are right that rhaenyra wasn't considered insane, but she has a larger potential for insanity compared to other characters.

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No she didn't. That was the point you are trying to assert. You are trying to argue for your point with the very point you are trying to assert. That is circular logic.

Targaryen insanity is way overstated in-setting because the memory of the Mad King looms large at the time of the novels. But it is in fact completely overstated.

And for that matter "could get brain damage" goes for every knight and warrior, and "wealth, power and status" goes for every King, Prince or Lord. None of it is specific to Rhaenyra, or even just specific to t he Targaryens.

FallenDawn said:

I see that no one is interested in the stress levels, maybe I don't understand the CK's mechanics. But if we don't start soon, then when are we? If we don't, we are going miss opportunity either way.

We are only about 12 points from 50 stress, and we saw just how slowly and rapidly we can gain stress. We need to gets a handle on the stress before something bad happens. This is a song of ice and fire, we are in new territory with rhaenyra and story wise.

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In CK3, stress only becomes a problem once it reaches 100 (i. e. Critical levels), so we have a pretty good runway to go on still. It is also not something that causes an instant loss, and in CK3 it is even possible to get some positive Traits out of it. Though in Rhaenyra's case, I think the most likely result will be her losing her temper and absolutely wailing on someone, which given the size of her muscles can have quite the negative consequences.

And yes, we see that stress can rise rapidly, but that was also from Rhaenyra's first kill, done in affect. That's not something she's going to experience often, nor it is something that is easily replicated. Most stress increases have been much smaller than this. We are also (hopefully) approaching a big stress relief, coming from Rhaenyra realizing her goal of obtaining knighthood.

Sooner or later, Rhaenyra will reach her breaking point. Once the Dance begins (and despite our best efforts, it will), we won't have the time nor resources to keep our knight's stress levels down, not when she will have to fight and possibly kill people she actually cares about. But until that time, time spent making sure that Rhaenyra gets into a position were she can survive those breaks is not time wasted.

[X] Plan Strong Allies

I see, I thought that getting higher stress would cause greater future problems, my mistake.

[X] plan hearthfire

Teen Spirit said:

You killed his father.

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What's a little paternal murder between mentor and student? We can point out how Eldric could improve himself over his Father very easily! We have very hands-on experience!

In actual seriousness that is most likely the longest shot but I do think we should ensure that something is done with him instead of leaving him to fester for years until he eventually decides to honor his Father's legacy at the worst time. Just insisting he get shunted off into the Faith or the Maesters would work wonders so long as he doesn't get a good position in those Orders. 'Suggest' he be promoted to chief Septon of the Iron Islands or something like that.

To refocus on the Vale Succession...I think that we (and therefore our children) would be further up the line of succession for the Lordship of the Vale than Joffrey Arryn. If we have enough children we could have one take the Arryn name and have Jeyne name them her heir. Do what the original Blacks Faction was gonna do with the Velaryon lordship but with the Arryns.

Life in Westeros is dangerous, I just think we should have contingencies for if Jeyne meets her end earlier than expected since she's currently our most potent supporter.

Shapeless Phobos said:

To refocus on the Vale Succession...I think that we (and therefore our children) would be further up the line of succession for the Lordship of the Vale than Joffrey Arryn. If we have enough children we could have one take the Arryn name and have Jeyne name them her heir. Do what the original Blacks Faction was gonna do with the Velaryon lordship but with the Arryns.

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I think this would utterly fuck up the balance of the realm's internal factions and as such is likely to anger the other lord paramounts a lot. It's also a huge sword hanging over our royal descendants to have a cadet line with a whole kingdom as base to rally for a claim at the crown. It's not like the Velaryon lordship which is part of the crownlands and easy to keep under royal oversight by giving them duties in King's Landing.

[X] Plan: Hearthfire

You know despite my plan being in the lead, I find myself being drawn towards Strong Allies.

I still think Isembard is rather slimy and don't really want to speak to him similar to how I didn't want to speak to Larys at Harrenhall, and I do think the Water Dancer is a better choice than Steffon for right now.

But I find that I don't really mind any plan winning, they all have their merits.

[X] Plan: Hearthfire
-[X] [Conversation] Speak With Lord Yorbert Royce
-[X] [Action] Train
--[X] [Duel] Hire a Braavosi Water Dancer.
-[X] [Action] Feast

Knowing how the counter Essosi combat styles Is quite a skill to have

Also, not interested in pissing off Viserys after we scared him with the Trial by Combat

There would Tournaments later to play Mystery Knight, but for now we want to improve Ourselves while we have the free time and be Taken seriously

[X] Plan: Tourney and Dragon Training
-[X] [Conversation] Speak With Lord Yorbert Royce
-[X] [Action] Train with Syrax
-[X] [Action] Enter a Tourney as a Mystery Knight

Putting this forward as a plan. My main issue with the existing plans is that I don't really want to go to the Feast - we're told we're expected to be at either the Feast or the Tourney, but not both. I think the Tourney makes more sense - while we probably won't earn a knighthood at this Tourney, it'd be good to test the waters. Not that the Feast is bad or anything, but doing both just seems like a waste of action economy when we have lots of stuff we want to be doing. And I think (assuming we can't earn a knighthood here) we might not face Ser Criston. It's a minor tourney in the Vale mostly to up attendance for the feast, Ser Criston is a fairly lowborn Stormlander who's very interested in tourneys and probably not interested in feasts.

If he does show up, and we lose, we could also just use that to drop out of the tourney and watch the rest without concealing our identity.

I assume that people are voting Feast because they assume entering the Tourney doesn't count as attending the Tourney (because we'd be a mystery knight), but I'm not sure if this is true? Even if it is, I'd prefer to watch the tourney than be at the Feast, since that won't anger Viserys, would definitely count, but will still progress us on our goals.

As for training with Syrax - I'd like to get at least a couple training sessions with her in. Dragonriding is potentially more important in war than personal prowess. And the idea of training over open water seems like a good thing. In flight it can be difficult to determine the horizon in a sea of blue, and in canon Jace dies likely partially because he's unaccustomed to flying over water. Also, if we end up fighting the Velayrons, I'd expect lots of sea battles. I'm sure there will be additional opportunities, but this seems like a good place to fit this in.

[X] Plan: Hearthfire

hailcapital said:

Putting this forward as a plan. My main issue with the existing plans is that I don't really want to go to the Feast - we're told we're expected to be at either the Feast or the Tourney, but not both.

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A reminder that nobody but Ser Raylon, whom we have taken into our confidence on this matter, probably expects us to enter any tourney as a mystery knight -- our hosts in Gulltown would expect us to attend their tourney in the same capacity, and playing the same role, we did at Harrenhal. Mechanically, this means taking the "Study the Tourney" Action. To the extent we do not take the "Study the Tourney" Action (whether because we're attending as a mystery knight or for some other reason), feasting is actually forced unless we're willing to spit on our hosts' hospitality, because we are expected to do at least one or the other.

Yeah, the point of being a mystery knight is that nobody knows who you are.

Zimmerwald1915 said:

A reminder that nobody but Ser Raylon probably expects us to enter any tourney as a mystery knight -- our hosts in Gulltown would expect us to attend their tourney in the same capacity, and playing the same role, we did at Harrenhal (mechanically, this means taking the "Study the Tourney" Action). To the extent we do not take the "Study the Tourney" Action (whether because we're attending as a mystery knight or for some other reason), feasting is actually forced unless we're willing to spit on our hosts' hospitality, because we are expected to do at least one or the other.

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At Harrenhal weren't there a few knights asking why we didn't attend the Tourney after we beat Harwin?

If we lose we can watch the rest of the tourney, if we win we can reveal ourselves afterward, even if we don't get the knighthood. Either way that could set up that we're definitely doing tourneys and build more rivalry with Criston. Given our taking part in a Trial by Combat and training openly, I'm kind of assuming that our "mystery knight" thing is likely to be an open secret rather than something genuinely concealed. If @Teen Spirit tells us that being in the Tourney doesn't count to the expected to attend either the Feast or Tourney then I'll switch my plan to watching the Tourney.

Attending the feast seems like a waste of action economy to me. I'd like to keep our host happy (be at feast or tourney), talk to one of Royce or Arryn, progress our knighthood ambitions (watch tourney, attend tourney, or train), and progress something else - dragontraining, or Alicent romance, or talk to Gwayne about Alicent and if he'd be okay faking a courtship with us to cover for us courting Alicent. If attending the tourney counts that'd be best, but we're always tight on actions and we're going to need to find time for at least some of those other things and this seems like a good place to try.

[X] Plan Actually Pursuing Our Goals Instead of Making Choices and Forgetting About Them.
[X] Plan Strong Allies

hailcapital said:

At Harrenhal weren't there a few knights asking why we didn't attend the Tourney after we beat Harwin?

If we lose we can watch the rest of the tourney, if we win we can reveal ourselves afterward, even if we don't get the knighthood. Either way that could set up that we're definitely doing tourneys and build more rivalry with Criston. Given our taking part in a Trial by Combat and training openly, I'm kind of assuming that our "mystery knight" thing is likely to be an open secret rather than something genuinely concealed. If @Teen Spirit tells us that being in the Tourney doesn't count to the expected to attend either the Feast or Tourney then I'll switch my plan to watching the Tourney.

Attending the feast seems like a waste of action economy to me. I'd like to keep our host happy (be at feast or tourney), talk to one of Royce or Arryn, progress our knighthood ambitions (watch tourney, attend tourney, or train), and progress something else - dragontraining, or Alicent romance, or talk to Gwayne about Alicent and if he'd be okay faking a courtship with us to cover for us courting Alicent. If attending the tourney counts that'd be best, but we're always tight on actions and we're going to need to find time for at least some of those other things and this seems like a good place to try.

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Okay so if you do the Tourney, you'll have options to compete in just a few jousts or do the whole thing. Unless you do the whole Tourney as a mystery knight and don't reveal yourself, that will count as attending the tourney for Lord Grafton since from his prespective you will only be gone for part of the event.

It'd be nice to build up a bit of a reputation for our Mytery knight...

Since this one is close, and I'm not writing today, we're not even close to closing the vote but I wanted you guys to see where things stand since it's both very divided and fairly close

[X] Plan Strong Allies