Oh yeah I wouldn't be surprised if there is some form of syncretism in Dorne.
The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest
- Thread starter Teen Spirit
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- Your pantry
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- He/Him
Small but important clarification here, the Rhoynar migration came after the Andal Conquest.
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
On one hand, yay.
On the other hand, the pure WTF of a somewhat unknown Rhaenyra winning a tourney would have been funny.
Speaking of Tourneys, are we planning to go on the Big White Harbor one or the Highgarden? Since White Harbor was offered, I am inclined to take it.
Depends on if we feel we're ready (Or lucky considering there's dice rolls) but if we take one more training action in Gulltown I think we'll be ready for White Harbour.
If nothing else, we'll certainly be ready for Highgarden.
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I could see a dual tourney arc where we place at Gulltown and/or White Harbor before winning at Highgarden.
This is making me wanna do the tourney in Gulltown.
...Should we just go for it?
Also we definitely should attend the feast at Gulltown, it's one of our objectives and it's apparently massive.
CharlieKing
Pure of Heart, Dumb of Ass
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- They/Them
oh that's interesting, i got the timeline mixed up there. what was there first?
Annatar
Lord of Gifts
- Location
- Pittsburgh
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- He/Him/They/Them
It goes First Men, several thousand years, Andals, and then several thousand years after that Rhoynar, who are the newest group in Dorne and only entered around a thousand years ago.
- Location
- United States
To clarify, I'm arguing that I think it would be good (and interesting) to develop a genuine faith in the religion that is held by the overwhelming majority of our subjects (and particularly those nearest the crown) and our girlfriend, not that we should feign such for political purposes. We do not have that kind of intrigue, not to mention it would be insulting to genuinely faithful people like our girlfriend. If we are going to do that, now would be an appropriate time, although there may be others.
I got kind of derailed discussing the Old Gods and LoL, but as was rightly pointed out these are total nonfactors where and when we are. The choice isn't between the Fot7 and "cooler" religions with magic, it's between the Fot7 and what we are right now, a kind of pseudo-agnostic culturally Valyrian thing that seems to be the default for Targaryens, which is also nonmagical.
By our vary nature, we go against the grain of the traditional roles and relationships practiced in all of the Seven Kingdoms. We can either go against the grain from the inside or the outside. We can be viewed as both the Westerosi girl who grew up dreaming of being a true knight out of the old stories and the barely-assimilated child of conquerors trampling over the traditions of the conquered people because they are displeasing. How much of one and how much of the other is still undetermined.
I do think there's an important difference between the written-down-nowhere cultural traditions that Arnold relied upon and written scripture. One is a matter of framing and cultural self image. While the other can be interpreted around, it is literally written down and not easily altered. So if we're told that yeah in this quest there's a line that lying with another woman is an abomination, or that a woman's only purpose is as a broodmare (unless she has no brothers), I'll stop with this. If it's actually even on the level as the IRL Bible then I'll agree the best we can do is deemphasize religion as a political force. But if it's just some vague stuff about gender roles as generalities I think that's something we can and should work with. I mean, if nothing else it might help Alicent with her religious guilt.
Btw this just isn't true, Oldtown.
I got kind of derailed discussing the Old Gods and LoL, but as was rightly pointed out these are total nonfactors where and when we are. The choice isn't between the Fot7 and "cooler" religions with magic, it's between the Fot7 and what we are right now, a kind of pseudo-agnostic culturally Valyrian thing that seems to be the default for Targaryens, which is also nonmagical.
By our vary nature, we go against the grain of the traditional roles and relationships practiced in all of the Seven Kingdoms. We can either go against the grain from the inside or the outside. We can be viewed as both the Westerosi girl who grew up dreaming of being a true knight out of the old stories and the barely-assimilated child of conquerors trampling over the traditions of the conquered people because they are displeasing. How much of one and how much of the other is still undetermined.
I do think there's an important difference between the written-down-nowhere cultural traditions that Arnold relied upon and written scripture. One is a matter of framing and cultural self image. While the other can be interpreted around, it is literally written down and not easily altered. So if we're told that yeah in this quest there's a line that lying with another woman is an abomination, or that a woman's only purpose is as a broodmare (unless she has no brothers), I'll stop with this. If it's actually even on the level as the IRL Bible then I'll agree the best we can do is deemphasize religion as a political force. But if it's just some vague stuff about gender roles as generalities I think that's something we can and should work with. I mean, if nothing else it might help Alicent with her religious guilt.
Btw this just isn't true, Oldtown.
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- Location
- Your pantry
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Essentially the timeline is:
Children of the forest + Old Men, with the Children fading away, then the Andals migrate in and assimilate with the Old Men, bringing in their religion, alongside several houses, such as the Martells. Then, when the Rhoynar are forced to flee, they follow Nymeria, with her finally finding a safe home for her people when she joins up with Mors Martell. The two of them decide to marry, institue equal primogeniture and conquer the rest of Dorne under their banner, with the Rhoynar essentially assimilating with the Andals when it comes to their faith, though of course, many Rhoynish traditions live strong in the Dorne we know. There's also a distinct minority of the Rhoynar who never assimilated, the Orphans of the Greenblood.
That's essentially it, from what I remember.
Edit: lol, and I see someone beat me to the punch.
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- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
Well, no, but most of your reasoning still ends up being political. Of course, for those reasons it would also be more convenient if we are truly religious instead of just feigning, but those reasons still are largely political.
It should be pointed out that being different, being special is part of the Targaryen legitimization. We are not Andals or First Men or Rhoynar, so we are not bound by their laws. We are special, and hence we rule. That is a big part of the attitudes surrounding the Targaryen family. If we were just assimilated Andals, well, then any other house would be just as good to rule the Seven Kingdoms as we. But we're not, we stand out, and that is part of our legitimization.
- Pronouns
- He
There's also the option of converting to the Valyrian gods.
[X] Go and see Syrax. A flight around the Giant's Lance might clear your head
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
Not realistically. Not that even much knowledge about them survived, but any conversion is unrealistic. As hailcapital said, we have the choice of being nominally Sevenist but truthfully Valyrian-agnostic (current state) or getting a deeper Sevenist piety. And really, the former makes more sense, and is the status quo as is.
There's also the consideration that pursuing religion isn't necessarily a free action. Even if we accept the premise that the risk/reward ratio for being religious, openly or not, favors being so, that doesn't mean that it is the best use of her time. Is the potential benefit greater than the benefit from time and actions that could be spent having conversations with important people, training, lowering stress, or otherwise becoming a more capable Queen?
I don't think so.
[X] Speak with other knights as Ser Tarly suggests. There are some friendly faces here that you would trust.
[X] Spend some time with Alicent and try to rest. Her presence has already helped you so much
I don't think so.
[X] Speak with other knights as Ser Tarly suggests. There are some friendly faces here that you would trust.
[X] Spend some time with Alicent and try to rest. Her presence has already helped you so much
- Location
- Germany
One thing to note about Rhaenyra going into shock after having killed is Arnold is that the whole room was likewise shocked by what just happened. The whole exchange was over within seconds. One moment Arnold is charging her and the next he's on his knees and getting cleanly beheaded. Executions don't usually go that quickly and cleanly, let alone fights.
What people will ultimately say about her reaction will inevitably be secondary to and adjusted to fit whatever they will take as their explanation for what that fight was.
What people will ultimately say about her reaction will inevitably be secondary to and adjusted to fit whatever they will take as their explanation for what that fight was.
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- He/Him
Adding to this. The fight was about as one sided as you could get with both sides being actually trained, Arnold was (probably the most understandable he did) fighting to maim, not kill. While also wildly underestimating Rhaenyra and dealing with being months out of practice and his time in the sky cells. Meanwhile Rhaenyra is fully aiming to kill his ass and had just trained with Harwin "Breakbones" Strong.
- Location
- United States
IC the rationale is that Alicent recommended it, she's kind of going through it and more inclined to do something more radically different, and that this is the sort of thing a true knight in a story would do. If a true knight in a story killed and is uncertain of what he did, or is going through it emotionally, they aren't going to go talk to with the boys about that time they beheaded a poacher or the jousting accident. They would dramatically go before the gods. Or rest their head on a pretty lady's lap.
So I think all the options are pretty IC. The political angle is OOC reasons for questers to vote for one over the other.
We ride dragons, of course we rule. It is not like no nation was ever ruled by a king of their own culture - that was closer to the norm rather than the exception. While we will remain distinct because of dragons, I think building common bonds with our subjects to supplement our dragons is if anything more stable than supplementing them with a half-baked notion of incest maintained racial superiority.
I'd disagree. I expect that it can serve many ends - for instance, I'd be surprised if we didn't get at least some stress reduction for all these options, including the Sept. Becoming more devout could also help bond with Alicent. And just knowing more about the dominant religion in the Seven Kingdoms seems necessary at some point.
Like the Fot7 has come up with Alicent's religious guilt, Johanna's homophobia, and Arnold's misogyny, and Rhaenyra doesn't know what's actually in the Seven Pointed Star on it. Is it just cultural inertia tying itself to religion, along with Septons making vague justifications based on the Mother? Or is there a lot of Leviticus style denunciations? We need to actually learn this at some point.
- Location
- Your pantry
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] If the Seven guided your blade, they might be willing to guide you too. Go to the sept.
Wow can't believe we've had three votes in a row that were so hotly contested. I mean the questers are practically split down the middle.
[X] Speak with other knights as Ser Tarly suggests. There are some friendly faces here that you would trust.
- Pronouns
- Male
[X] Speak with other knights as Ser Tarly suggests. There are some friendly faces here that you would trust.