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The Lost Primarch Quest

Flagship Name

  • Spirit of Fire

    Votes: 21 47.7%

  • Vigilance

    Votes: 23 52.3%
  • Total voters
    44
  • Poll closed .
Voting is open
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MinerFrags said:
i dont have much experience in plan making but it seems like both daemons bane and time arent what we need. is there anything that is better to substitute it
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Depends on what exactly you think we need. There is a giant info post regarding all known runes that we can make, so you can suggest other options from it.

Also Daemonsbane is a good rune for us as it is an effective trait for each of our heroes to gain and a general boost to their primary focus and we are focusing on fighting Chaos currently. So it is overall a good choice of a rune, Time though is just a bad rune to make in general.
 
Nicholas Brooks said:
@Daemon Hunter This turn, aren't there omake rewards that reduce the DC of all our runic research actions? If so, how much is it?
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Looking back on things that there are. There's +20 from omake rewards this turn for rune research.

bigking321 said:
How did Oriacarius react to learning the Emperors plan?

Did he already have a plan for something like that?
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Ah, that I somehow forgot to cover. I'll add that in to the next update.

TinyGladiator said:
(It will normally require three actions instead of two, but I wrote an omake for it and if it's okay @Daemon Hunter can I pre-use the reward to reduce this research by a year? If not I can adjust the plan.)
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Yep, that's fine by me.
 
Leon12431 said:
Note that the Rune of Time is effectively a dead rune to make. It can only be used at the start by Kesar, Auro, and a bare handful of other wardens. Second it takes at least a decade or two turns for another person to start getting any real use from it beyond the absolute basic passive effect of slowed aging. This time lag can extend all the way to 4 turns or 20 years. Compounding this is the fact that the rune requires the people training to use it to spend their background actions on it, which further reduces the value we can expect to gain from it.

Also the rune barely improves the astropathic ritual that Auro is creating, it enables atemporal communication which is effectively instant messaging. But its the same sort of deal as ships arriving before they leave, as in extremely rare and unreliable to expect to make use of.
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The Rune of Time is at least usable by people outside the XIth. Magnus and his Heroes could use it, I'd bet Yesugei could use it, Pert and Vulkan almost certainly have technology which would be improved by it, etc. And besides, the Rune of Chaos will need time to start providing benefits as well iirc, and we're rapidly approaching the end of the quest. So if we don't do it now we probably never will.

@Daemon Hunter Is the thing about it needing background actions correct? And if so, how much?
 
Nicholas Brooks said:
The Rune of Time is at least usable by people outside the XIth. Magnus and his Heroes could use it, I'd bet Yesugei could use it, Pert and Vulkan almost certainly have technology which would be improved by it, etc. And besides, the Rune of Chaos will need time to start providing benefits as well iirc, and we're rapidly approaching the end of the quest. So if we don't do it now we probably never will.

@Daemon Hunter Is the thing about it needing background actions correct? And if so, how much?
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It does take background actions to learn yes, roughly speaking 10-20 background action years worth.
 
MinerFrags said:
i dont have much experience in plan making but it seems like both daemons bane and time arent what we need. is there anything that is better to substitute it
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I'd disagree with Daemonsbane not being what we need. One of the biggest strengths, and arguably the biggest strength, of the Eternal Wardens is their Hero power. Anything that boosts that is critical, especially in Chaos encounters where their power tips the tide or they're at risk. Such as the Chaos related encounters that the Eldar are going to ask the Eternal Wardens to send a Hero or two over to pay for our favours, such as that Pre-Fall Corrupted Eldar Port that Maticus heard about a few updates ago.

Not to mention that if we later make a variant for, say, Oriacarius? That's gonna definitely boost his planning capability vs Chaos, and that's gonna be a scary thing for them. Or hell, Solarus with super bombs. Doom Slayer turning into a whirlwind of blades and death, or more of one to be precise. And they'd also still have the general variant to boost them.

Hell, there's plans to send Kesar Dorlin alone (as in completely alone) to this world to fulfil another Daemonsbane tier. He's gonna need all the help he can get to succeed, and sadly the only help he could get is stuff that boosts himself.
TinyGladiator said:
Kesar 1: A Slaaneshi Daemon World populated by a species of scorpion-esque Xenos and a significant amount of daemons. The number of Xenos is relatively small, but each of them are empowered by daemonic blessings. The planet is surrounded by the presence of the Warp, and attempting to circumvent it would quadruple the length of various supply lines.
-This encounter was omaked here.
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JAMalam said:
Tier 10: Take Over a Daemon World
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[X] Plan Lord of Runes

Our Hero units are our best strength, and after seceding we need them at the best of their best strength now more than ever. We've told the Imperium as a whole that the mission is to kill Chaos, so let's start that gamble with the chips in our favour before we really feels the effects of cutting off from the Imperium.
 
After catching up with the quest am I the only one who likes Epsilon and would have want him to allied with Kesar.

I know by this point it is as unlikely as the Emperor not won't stop shooting himself in the foot.
 
It would be extremely funny if when the Big E decides to invade Valhalla with his Army to suppress our secession Epsilon kinda just pops out from his hidey hole in the void and tells Kesar "Hey I heard that you guys are leaving the Imperium and that the Big Bitch is coming to get you, wouldn't it be nice to have some help in defeating the Mad Emperor" *wink wink*
 
@Daemon Hunter who can use the specialized Daemonsbane Runes? Can only the person they reflect use them or can we share the specialized ones among our Heroes to provide them with minor reflections of their peer's abilities?

Can you provide a list of the expected effects that the Rune of Time would provide to our Heroes?

Would the Rune of Time render the astropathic ritual universally/consistently in sending messages in atemporal manners or is it a happenstance measure as I assume it to be.
 
My main interest here is getting good use out of this turn's DC reduction. Grandmaster Runes have a DC of 40, but for this turn, they are 15. I'd rather have Cure in place of Time than waste even more of our actions on the Rune of Daemonsbane, which has a DC of 0 by default. So, with that in mind, let me propose it as an alternative.

[X] Plan Maximize Opportunity
-[X] Send Runes to the Full Imperium - *+6 to the Imperial Army*
-[X] Grandmaster Runic Base x2, no DC
-[X] Grandmaster Rune of Will x2, DC 15
-[X] Grandmaster Rune of Chaos x1, no DC
-[X] Grandmaster Rune of Time x2, DC 15
-[X] Grandmaster Rune of Rejuvenation, DC 15
-[X] Basic Rune of Water x1, negative DC (if passed then Inspire the Rune of Banishment)

[X] Plan Maximize Opportunity 2
-[X] Send Runes to the Full Imperium - *+6 to the Imperial Army*
-[X] Grandmaster Runic Base x2, no DC
-[X] Grandmaster Rune of Will x2, DC 15
-[X] Grandmaster Rune of Chaos x1, no DC
-[X] Grandmaster Rune of Cure x2, DC 15
-[X] Grandmaster Rune of Rejuvenation, DC 15
-[X] Basic Rune of Water x1, negative DC (if passed then Inspire the Rune of Banishment)
eumarthan said:
It would be extremely funny if when the Big E decides to invade Valhalla with his Army to suppress our secession Epsilon kinda just pops out from his hidey hole in the void and tells Kesar "Hey I heard that you guys are leaving the Imperium and that the Big Bitch is coming to get you, wouldn't it be nice to have some help in defeating the Mad Emperor" *wink wink*
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Emps and the Custodes would crush Epsilon in 5 minutes. Epsilon fucked us up because we are bad at fighting non-Warp enemies. If it was Perturabo, a couple Heroes, and 75000 Iron Warriors facing him instead, the fragments of his AI core would be decorations on the Iron Blood by now.

It's why we are doing everything in our power to delay Emps going on the warpath, because in a straight military engagement, there is no hope of victory right now.
 
Leon12431 said:
@Daemon Hunter who can use the specialized Daemonsbane Runes? Can only the person they reflect use them or can we share the specialized ones among our Heroes to provide them with minor reflections of their peer's abilities?

Can you provide a list of the expected effects that the Rune of Time would provide to our Heroes?

Would the Rune of Time render the astropathic ritual universally/consistently in sending messages in atemporal manners or is it a happenstance measure as I assume it to be.
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1) Right now just the person that reflects it. And possibly people they've trained extensively.

2) Not at this time

3) No, it'd be a happenstance that is just useful from time to time.
 
[X] Plan Lord of Runes

The Rune of Daemonsbane is going to be incredibly useful for us this turn. We have multiple Chaos threats that need to be dealt with including two MEs which are a Daemonworld and a Tzeentchian Hell-forge, both of which are very likely to recieve Black Covenant support. That's without mentioning the Eldar help request which will involve one of our Daemonsbanes going to either a Daemonworld in the Eye of Terror or to Port Kelthuanesh, a Deldar city infested with Chaos champions.

Getting the Rune of Time or Cure may be more optimal action-wise due to the temporary bonuses, but in terms of their actual effects I don't feel either is as useful to us as the Rune of Daemonsbane which will continue to be an important tool in our all our Heroes' kits including even Kesar for as long as we are in the Maelstrom.
 
JAMalam said:
[X] Plan Lord of Runes

The Rune of Daemonsbane is going to be incredibly useful for us this turn. We have multiple Chaos threats that need to be dealt with including two MEs which are a Daemonworld and a Tzeentchian Hell-forge, both of which are very likely to recieve Black Covenant support. That's without mentioning the Eldar help request which will involve one of our Daemonsbanes going to either a Daemonworld in the Eye of Terror or to Port Kelthuanesh, a Deldar city infested with Chaos champions.

Getting the Rune of Time or Cure may be more optimal action-wise due to the temporary bonuses, but in terms of their actual effects I don't feel either is as useful to us as the Rune of Daemonsbane which will continue to be an important tool in our all our Heroes' kits including even Kesar for as long as we are in the Maelstrom.
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That's why we are getting the Rune of Chaos and the Rune of Will. Since those are supposed to be game changers. And if that's still not enough, I could just move the Inspiration of the Rune of Banishment to a guaranteed slot instead of having it as the action for if Water gets a high roll. We have options, many of which don't require tossing 3 actions at a 0 DC Rune which doesn't benefit from a one turn only DC reduction.
 
Nicholas Brooks said:
That's why we are getting the Rune of Chaos and the Rune of Will. Since those are supposed to be game changers. And if that's still not enough, I could just move the Inspiration of the Rune of Banishment to a guaranteed slot instead of having it as the action for if Water gets a high roll. We have options, many of which don't require tossing 3 actions at a 0 DC Rune which doesn't benefit from a one turn only DC reduction.
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The Rune of Chaos and Rune of will seem to be more indirect boosts to our Anti-Chaos stuff than a direct one. The Rune of Daemonsbane fits in very nicely by further boosting our Heroes' CR along with Will as well as directly improving their combat ability against Daemons. I'm not sure the Rune of Banishment being inspired would provide anything even close to the Daemonsbane Rune. Having more AD is a very good thing too as it directly inproves our odds of success on any Chaos world where one of our Daemonsbanes is present.

Also, considering our current recrutiment rate was just halved, enhancing our best abilities as much as we can when we will be applying them a lot very soon makes the most sense to me. Rune of Time's benefits by comparison are nebulous and we don't have any major Nurgle threats this turn so the Rune of Cure's best use case is simply not relevant at this time.
 
JAMalam said:
The Rune of Chaos and Rune of will seem to be more indirect boosts to our Anti-Chaos stuff than a direct one. The Rune of Daemonsbane fits in very nicely by further boosting our Heroes' CR along with Will as well as directly improving their combat ability against Daemons. I'm not sure the Rune of Banishment being inspired would provide anything even close to the Daemonsbane Rune. Having more AD is a very good thing too as it directly inproves our odds of success on any Chaos world where one of our Daemonsbanes is present.

Also, considering our current recrutiment rate was just halved, enhancing our best abilities as much as we can when we will be applying them a lot very soon makes the most sense to me. Rune of Time's benefits by comparison are nebulous and we don't have any major Nurgle threats this turn so the Rune of Cure's best use case is simply not relevant at this time.
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The Rune of Banishment provides a +10 just now, and if you look at how much the Purge Rune was enhanced, it would probably rise to a +15 or maybe even +20. It also has an Advanced version, so Inspiration for it would also be an improvement to the Imperial Army. Daemonsbane solely helps our Heroes, not our regular troops, and consistently the rank and file Wardens have been the most underperforming part of the Legion.

As for the benefits of Time, we know that they are useful for Kesar and Auro at minimum to improve their Divination, so it is an especially potent thing for Kesar given he is still very new to his psychic powers. Kesar gets much less from Daemonsbane
 
Nicholas Brooks said:
The Rune of Banishment provides a +10 just now, and if you look at how much the Purge Rune was enhanced, it would probably rise to a +15 or maybe even +20. It also has an Advanced version, so Inspiration for it would also be an improvement to the Imperial Army. Daemonsbane solely helps our Heroes, not our regular troops, and consistently the rank and file Wardens have been the most underperforming part of the Legion.

As for the benefits of Time, we know that they are useful for Kesar and Auro at minimum to improve their Divination, so it is an especially potent thing for Kesar given he is still very new to his psychic powers. Kesar gets much less from Daemonsbane
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Our Heroes literally deploy alongside the IA on almost every occasion Chaos appears ans the buff from the Grandmaster Rune of Daemonsbane is likely going to be more than just what inspiring a Master Rune of Banishment would do. Our Heroes getting majorly buffed nearly always boosts our chances of success against Chaos.

Sure it doesn't technically boost our rank-and-file Wardens, but say, Maticus getting a +10 or +15 AD does more than the Wardens as a whole getting a +5.

Also, divination has never been an ability that the Wardens are particularly good at nor id it something we have bothered to learn more about. The Rune of Time's divination boost is interesting, but if we want divination buffs, we could just ask the Eldar for psychic trainign which would be way more effective.

Hell, we could just ask for one of the Eldar seers which would only cost a single favor and might even be more valuable than whatever the Rune of Time gives Kesar or Auro.
 
Nicholas Brooks said:
That's why we are getting the Rune of Chaos and the Rune of Will. Since those are supposed to be game changers. And if that's still not enough, I could just move the Inspiration of the Rune of Banishment to a guaranteed slot instead of having it as the action for if Water gets a high roll. We have options, many of which don't require tossing 3 actions at a 0 DC Rune which doesn't benefit from a one turn only DC reduction.
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Just for reference as to my reasoning for my plan and why I'm not picking other runes, the Rune of Banishment being inspired would give just a +3 according to DaemonHunter. It also wouldn't give anything for Kesar Dorlin or whoever we send to the Eldar as we're planning to do.

Time gives nothing for almost everyone, unless they spend 10 to 20 years on it (including dedicated actions towards it) and which point their aging is slowed and they gain some sort of temporal power. If you're an extremely powerful, extremely skilled psyker then you can use it for divination, except only outside of combat unless you spend 10 to 20 years on doing said divinations that you can do it in combat.

In other words, of our Heroes the only ones who could use it for divination are Kesar Dorlin and Crescum Auro. And also some skilled folk in the Eternal Wardens Library. To actually gain the full effect, everyone using it (especially non-psykers), need to each spend 2 to 4 turns on this including actions. That's not even slightly worth it to me.

Kesar Dorlin also already has an amazing Rune to absolutely dominate Chaos enemies in a way beyond simple divination.
Daemon Hunter said:
Rune of the Anathema - Provides the location of daemons within a planet-sized area, skilled daemons can obscure their presence. Provides the plans of daemons upon the world. Forces daemonic champions to fight Kesar before they can fight anyone else. Only Kesar can use this rune.
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Cure is alright, but we're not facing any Nurglites right now or anyone making use of bioweapons or poisons or toxins. Since it's not a pressing concern, it can wait.

The Rune of Daemonsbane boosts Anti-Daemon and Corruption Resistance for our Daemonsbanes by a lot. It's Grandmaster, and thus beyond Master Runes like Banishment (even when Inspired) and look at what that gives:
TinyGladiator said:
Purity?
  • Effect: Bonus to anti-daemon (+20), corruption resistance (+15), True Death chance upon daemon death (1%).
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Since it's the same tier as Purity, it means it could give something like thus but likely stronger to our Daemonsbanes as this is a Rune only they can wield. That sounds way better than Cure right now, and a lot better than the colossal time-sink and action-sink that is the Rune of Time
 
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