I mislike straight-up counseling Viserys against marrying Alicent, for two reasons. First, it's not at all clear that she's been mooted to the King as an option, and if she hasn't I don't want to be the one to put the idea in his head even if our stated position is against the match. Second, why did we bother researching alternatives if we weren't going to propose one?

Because the ones we found all suck. Well, that happens.

But if our aim is to prevent a marriage with Alicent, and if our relations with our father are broadly positive... well, then why beat around the bush, and not just say what it is that we want? If we don't propose any specific option, but just that it not be that one option... then I think Viserys would take heed.

And I am pretty sure Otto will bring up Alicent himself regardless.
 
And I am pretty sure Otto will bring up Alicent himself regardless.
QM says he hasn't, instead opting to rely on the mere-exposure effect. It is not reasonable to infer that he will change strategies here.

I should note the show implies Otto never directly asked Viserys to marry Alicent. It's just Otto basically tossed Alicent at Viserys the night his wife and died and had her act as his main emotional support for months afterwards.
 
I take the point that the only power broker besides the King we've managed not to totally alienate is Hightower (who finds us mercurial but capable), which inclines me to the Tyrell match -- because I buy the argument that if we can play coy about our role in arranging it, it arrays Otto further behind us as a check to his domestic rivals. Green Rhaenyra, let's go.
Having Otto inside the tent pissing out then outside it pissing in would be nice. If instead of the situation in canon in which the alternative to us on the throne was Otto's grandson, Otto is faced with a situation in which the alternatives to us are either Daemon or the Hightowers' overlords then it doesn't seem impossible for us to be able to get him on our side when it comes to the succession, and using that political acumen for us rather then against us. We'd just need to make sure we don't alienate him with our own behavior too much.
 
I mean, if Laena ends up marrying Daemon in half a decade, marrying our heir to one of their kids binds both loose ends. Not sure I'd support it if it happens, but it's an option.
We have Corlys going "yeah no, a few years is too long," already. Waiting for hypothetical babies a decade from now? That would also need to grow up? Yeeaaaahhh no one's betting on that.


No I mean like where do they get all their food (or other resources) in the desert? Do they not trade for any food from the Reach or Riverlands during hard winters? Besides wine, what do they export? How did they hold onto their peasant's allegiances when Visenya went on a crusade against the noble houses, when in places like Kingslanding peasants are a few day
Dorne is faaarrrr down the list of "where do they get food???" worldbuilding issues. Top is the whole "multiple year winters"

"Oh no half the North dies every winter cycle!!" Okay that's still like unreasonably low death rate considering irl how many people die from like one year of bad weather. "Oh they've adapted!!!" Yes but how? We don't see it other than handwaves about better storage (please ignore realistic storage sizes for multiple years would be bigger than modern Amazon warehouses). Seriously the entire biosphere ought to be completely alien considering most plants explicitly grow--seed on a yearly basis. Like most seeds, especially those cultivated for argritculture, will outright die if not replanted on a yearly schedule. Evolutionary pressures to make stuff that can somehow hibernate for years and then be straight productive for years would be completely different from irl plants.
 
[X] "Do as you see fit, father. Just please do not marry Alicent Hightower. I beg of you."

I would like to caution any dornish marriage specifically because they are the most likely outside of corlys and Otto to try and ursup the throne. Especially with their penchant for poisoning...
 
[X] "I've found an alternative, Victaria Tyrell would prove almost as strong a match as Laena."

No Dornish marriage. They would poison the shit out of us to ensure there side inherits. And everyone else in the realm would hate the marriage because the Dornish are disliked by all their neighbors so it would cause instability.
 
Last edited:
[X] "Do as you see fit, father. Just please do not marry Alicent Hightower. I beg of you."

I'll go with that because I don't think it will win and because it doesn't really matter to me that much which bride takes it (though I am wary about them all as well).
 
Last edited:
No Dornish marriage. They would poison the shit out of us to ensure there side inherits.

If that were true, you would see that happen routinely even within Dorne and succession affairs there, which is not the case. Hell, it isn't even a Dornish stereotype. The Dornish use the spear and ambushes, not poison. The stereotypical place for that would be Lys.

To be fair, the North would still be able to trade during Winter, which might be a source of food during lean times.
The North has the combined area of the entire rest of the 7K, but with a typical population of a kingdom. Most of it is empty woods etc. You don't supply an entire population with food over such distances with such poor infrastructure. The years long winters really do not make sense, especially in the North.
 
The North has the combined area of the entire rest of the 7K, but with a typical population of a kingdom. Most of it is empty woods etc. You don't supply an entire population with food over such distances with such poor infrastructure. The years long winters really do not make sense, especially in the North.
Depends on how the population is distributed. Population densities probably become lower the further north you go. Perhaps you have something like 90% of the North's population living on 10% of its land, easing distribution difficulties to people who live in that 10%.

Look for example at the population density distribution in Russia:
 
Last edited:
[X] "I've found an alternative, Victaria Tyrell would prove almost as strong a match as Laena."
[X] "The Princess of Dorne has a sister. If you marry her, we will gain a powerful ally against the Triarchy."


The two better alternatives then.
 
Also surprising that Corlys is claiming that Aemon told him that he should expect being king consort one day. Aemon died suddenly at war, which was how the succession dispute between Rhaenys and Baelon happened. Was Aemon intending to institute a Dornish style succession or was there a reason that made him confident he would not sire more then one child? Or maybe Corlys is just lying to us so he can act all offended.
 
Added a write-in option, but I will note that any option that involves arranging a bethoral for Rhaenyra as well at this moment is not going to be accepted by Viserys.

And don't worry about time since I fully intend this vote to last a few days since it's important.
 
Last edited:
Another reason I don't like the Tyrell match is because it really doesn't offer any advantages to Viserys that marrying Alicent wouldn't also give him.

I could absolutely see Viserys going on with his day, thinking on the words of Rhaenyra, and then in pops Alicent wearing her mother's dress acting all supportive. Then Viserys thinks about how Rhaenyra was talking about strong ties in the Reach would be good for the realm, and how Otto is his best friend anyway...

I mean Rhaenyra thinking about how good the Tyrell house is as an option eventually led her into thinking about how ideal of an option Alicent is.
 
Also surprising that Corlys is claiming that Aemon told him that he should expect being king consort one day. Aemon died suddenly at war, which was how the succession dispute between Rhaenys and Baelon happened. Was Aemon intending to institute a Dornish style succession or was there a reason that made him confident he would not sire more then one child? Or maybe Corlys is just lying to us so he can act all offended.
Aemon was 37 when he died and he only had one kid by that point who was old enough to marry and be pregnant. Unless his wife died and he remarried he had fair reason to think Rhaenys would most likely be his only child.
 
[X] "The Princess of Dorne has a sister. If you marry her, we will gain a powerful ally against the Triarchy."
 
Another reason I don't like the Tyrell match is because it really doesn't offer any advantages to Viserys that marrying Alicent wouldn't also give him.

I could absolutely see Viserys going on with his day, thinking on the words of Rhaenyra, and then in pops Alicent wearing her mother's dress acting all supportive. Then Viserys thinks about how Rhaenyra was talking about strong ties in the Reach would be good for the realm, and how Otto is his best friend anyway...

I mean Rhaenyra thinking about how good the Tyrell house is as an option eventually led her into thinking about how ideal of an option Alicent is.

This seems like a tad of a reach to me. If Viserys "falls for" Alicent after she visits him with her mother's dress after talking with us enough for him to ignore our suggestions, then he can do so no matter who we suggested to him. Maybe if we speak with him about the Tyrells he'll decide to not go with Alicent because he can still marry a no less beneficial match while still going along with our suggestion, whereas if we suggest a Dornish match he'll go with Alicent because Alicent would be a lot less controversial in court then what we suggested to him.

The crown has a fair bit of issues right now. It just seems remiss to add to them. I don't want to give Corlys reason to think that civil war might actually be the way to get his butt on the throne because Viserys has now become deeply unpopular at court.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top