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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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[X] Leave Arthur sleeping until Judgement Day comes, that seemed the thought of Saint David, wise enough to follow you'd judge

[X] Plan: Modern Problems Require Modern Knights v2


Iron Roby said:
Why would we assume that his soul has passed on, though?
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I was replying to a line of discussion on that possibility. I do think it's reasonably likely though. Full soul ghosts are rare, especially sane ones with appreciable age. A few centuries? Sure if you've got the willpower for it. 1500+ years? Heroic willpower or no that's a long time to be a ghost and not try to pass on. As a former knight of the cross he's got the right sort of attention to successfully make it to the other side from some pretty weird circumstances.


Yog said:
True. To be frank, I don't believe masquerade will last too long. Nemesis is actively trying to break it now, we are not fully invested in preserving it, and in many ways benefit from a world without masquerade, and the conflicts / magical activity is escalating. I expect soft breaking of the masquerade in at most two more years, likely less.
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Perhaps, but it needs to go down on our terms; preferably with a paranet+ analog* in place to help minor talents avoid being burned at the stake or something by scared mundanes.

Getting torn down by random third parties only favors Nemesis slightly less than if it brought the masquerade crashing down itself.

*complete with safe houses, security forces, and competent outreach programs.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Jun 25, 2024 at 7:19 AM, finished with 80 posts and 27 votes.
  • [X] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength
    [X] Plan: Modern Problems Require Modern Knights v2
    -[X] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength
    --[X] Persuasion excellency
    --[X] Activate: All Things Betray
    ---[X] Inform them that if they wish to not simply be freed to the afterlife and walk again amongst mortal men that they require a willingness and ability to adapt to the current age along with the Masquerade. Make it clear that further attempts to steal the Cauldron for their own ends will be met with death.
    [X] Leave Arthur sleeping until Judgement Day comes, that seemed the thought of Saint David, wise enough to follow you'd judge
    [X] BoredMan
    -[X] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength
    --[X] Persuasion excellency
    ---[X] Inform them that if they wish to not simply be freed to the afterlife and walk again amongst mortal men that they require a willingness and ability to adapt to the current age and relinquish their previous mission to resurrect King Arthur if deemed necessary. Whether or not he is brought back is not solely their decision anymore and further attempts to steal the Cauldron will be met with death.
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BronzeTongue said:
Perhaps, but it needs to go down on our terms; preferably with a paranet+ analog* in place to help minor talents avoid being burned at the stake or something by scared mundanes.

Getting torn down by random third parties only favors Nemesis slightly less than if it brought the masquerade crashing down itself.

*complete with safe houses, security forces, and competent outreach programs.
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Yes, obviously it needs to be on our terms. But the way to do this is not to freeze out other parties, but to coopt them and to reach an agreement / compromise on how the masquerade is going down. The more parties agree on the united vision of masquerade breakdown, the smoother it'll go, I feel.

BoredMan said:
Frankly I'm not seeing what's unreasonable about the plan. If we want to bring him back we can do so without having the Knights steal the Cauldron. It should belong to Lydia now as it was her father's. They didn't express any regret over what they did so they may very well try again what they did before. And considering that before they tried stealing the divine artifact from a God in his own territory the odds might not matter to them. We aren't even guarding the Cauldron ourselves as far as I know so it's even less protected.
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They didn't take the Cauldron of Rebirth in order to gain possession of it. They took it with a specific goal in mind - resurrecting Arthur. Telling them "you do not get to use the Cauldron" is the same as telling them "you do not get to resurrect Arthur". Plus, it's coached in very hostile language.

At least that's my read. It's basically both "serve us" and "also, you do not get to resurrect Arthur". If you don't intend it like this, maybe adding something like "but we are fine with working on resurrecting Arthur via acceptable means" to the vote would work.
 
Yog said:
Yes, obviously it needs to be on our terms. But the way to do this is not to freeze out other parties, but to coopt them and to reach an agreement / compromise on how the masquerade is going down. The more parties agree on the united vision of masquerade breakdown, the smoother it'll go, I feel.


They didn't take the Cauldron of Rebirth in order to gain possession of it. They took it with a specific goal in mind - resurrecting Arthur. Telling them "you do not get to use the Cauldron" is the same as telling them "you do not get to resurrect Arthur". Plus, it's coached in very hostile language.

At least that's my read. It's basically both "serve us" and "also, you do not get to resurrect Arthur". If you don't intend it like this, maybe adding something like "but we are fine with working on resurrecting Arthur via acceptable means" to the vote would work.
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I voted because I don't trust them not to try to steal Lydia, who doesn't have an army or be as powerful as her father yet. If it seems harsh it's because they murdered her father's wife and never showed regret for it. Furthermore, they literally asked what we wanted in return and it's simple, don't break the mask on purpose and don't steal from our friend, I really don't know where this is too hard or where it means that they has to serve us.

I don't care enough about the issue of Arthur to talk to them about it yet. We need to have our own conversations with Lily about his condition before talking to anyone else.
 
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Yog said:
They didn't take the Cauldron of Rebirth in order to gain possession of it. They took it with a specific goal in mind - resurrecting Arthur. Telling them "you do not get to use the Cauldron" is the same as telling them "you do not get to resurrect Arthur". Plus, it's coached in very hostile language.
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...Which required that they first obtain possession of it. Come on man. Don't be coy.

The plan says that they aren't allowed to STEAL it. It says nothing about using the Cauldron it specifically says that they won't be allowed to STEAL it.

Edit: Where are you getting "serve us" from???
 
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BoredMan said:
...Which required that they first obtain possession of it. Come on man. Don't be coy.

The plan says that they aren't allowed to STEAL it. It says nothing about using the Cauldron it specifically says that they won't be allowed to STEAL it.
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Not what I am talking about. I was talking about how the possession on the Cauldron was a means to a specific singular goal, and they didn't require the Cauldron to remain in their possession afterwards. They didn't want the Cauldron for itself, only as means of resurrecting Arthur.

As to wording - I honestly didn't discern the difference in the meaning you tried to convey. Given how charged the situation is, I would not expect the knights, especially after having been imprisoned for more than a thousand years, to be able to parse the subtleties of our speech either. You need to be very, very blunt in this situation, not imitate the fae.
Azais said:
I voted because I don't trust them not to try to steal Lydia, who doesn't have an army or be as powerful as her father yet. If it seems harsh it's because they murdered her father's wife and never showed regret for it. Furthermore, they literally asked what we wanted in return and it's simple, don't break the mask on purpose and don't steal from our friend, I really don't know where this is too hard or where it means that they has to serve us.

I don't care enough about the issue of Arthur to talk to them about it yet.
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Why would they try to steal Lydia?

"Serve us" or at least "work with us" is this part "[] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength"

Arthur is the core of this talk. They went through thousand years of torture in order to resurrect their liege. That's loyalty that, if not magically forced, is something songs should be sung about for the next Age. We will have to talk to them about it.
 
BoredMan said:
...Which required that they first obtain possession of it. Come on man. Don't be coy.

The plan says that they aren't allowed to STEAL it. It says nothing about using the Cauldron it specifically says that they won't be allowed to STEAL it.
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To be fair, it also says nothing that they might still have a legitimate path open to borrow it. That we would ever consider saying yes. Which is not what our tone would imply.

Because how it's phrased is purely focused on how they have to stay away from the cauldron. If that's not the intent, then adding something like "Further attempts to steal the Cauldron will be met with death. Your only hope of borrowing it will be to convince us with your deeds, that your cause is worthy" would clarify it.
 
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Yog said:
Not what I am talking about. I was talking about how the possession on the Cauldron was a means to a specific singular goal, and they didn't require the Cauldron to remain in their possession afterwards. They didn't want the Cauldron for itself, only as means of resurrecting Arthur.
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So even after what happened you see no value in drawing a line in the sand by telling them that it isn't okay for them to steal from our friend?

Yog said:
Given how charged the situation is, I would not expect the knights, especially after having been imprisoned for more than a thousand years, to be able to parse the subtleties of our speech either. You need to be very, very blunt in this situation, not imitate the fae.
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The Knights should be utterly insane at this point. Clearly there is some level of magic interference going on to preserve their mentality. Just because you didn't realize that what I wrote was in fact what I meant doesn't mean the way it's written is Fae like. It is very much written bluntly as is.

Iron Roby said:
To be fair, it also says nothing that they might still have a legitimate path open to borrow it. That we would ever consider saying yes. Which is not what our tone would imply.

Because how it's phrased is purely focused on how they have to stay away from the cauldron. If that's not the intent, then adding something like "Further attempts to steal the Cauldron will be met with death. Your only hope of borrowing it will be to convince us with your deeds, that your cause is worthy" would clarify it.
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My expectation was that after being told we won't tolerate them stealing or attempting to steal from Arawn or Lydia again that they would consider other options and open dialogue on the subject matter.

Fine though. Since someone in thread read one thing and derived a different meaning I'll be even more blunt. As blunt as humanly possible.

Here it is slightly edited.
[X] Plan: Modern Problems Require Modern Knights v2
-[X] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength
--[X] Persuasion excellency
--[X] Activate: All Things Betray
---[X] Inform them that if they wish to not simply be freed to the afterlife and walk again amongst mortal men that they require a willingness and ability to adapt to the current age along with the Masquerade. Make it clear that further attempts to steal the Cauldron for their own ends will be met with death and that if they wish to make use of it they'll require our permission beforehand.

Is that clear enough? Genuine question.
 
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Arc 12 Interlude 10: The Forms We Wear
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    • The Forms We Wear ​

    4rd of February 2007 A.D.

    A girl stood on a sidewalk on the corner of Archer Avenue and Clark Street, looking up at the sky hoping it would not snow, her name was Molly Carpenter. A magician, her power old and deep rooted strange and new, reached out to the molded stone under her feet, to the water that flowed though metal, to the lighting bound in wires before her eyes the veil passing. Song of Perennial Hours Intrinsically Ascending considered the virtues of being a wolf, for all shapes were yours, to slip in and out of with an effort of will. No you really do not want wolf instincts on a first meeting. Wolves are lovely creatures, but they do not really react well to strangers on 'their territory.' I wonder if I should tell them Alphas are made up... Save that for the second meeting Molly.

    1 Willpower Used -> Font of Power at 4/5

    It was at that moment that Harry Dresden, coat billowing in the wind turned the corner and stopped dead, looking at you as if you had grown another head, which you guess you had done in a roundabout way.

    "Heya Harry, so you know how Tiffany's... 'mother' was a fan of long division, turns out I can do, be that as well. Really helps deal with all the stuff I've been meaning to do but I didn't really have the time for like meeting your friends..."

    "Stars and stones what do you mean you just... where'd you get the body? How? Does Michael know?"

    You roll your eyes, there's a part of you that wants to flick that little mental switch on the back of your head and see how he deals with your glamor just to see if it will really knock his socks off the way it's meant to. You really would not put it past Harry Dresden to keep talking about Dad and metaphysics when you just want to show off and flirt a little now that Tiffany's out of town with You-That-Was-First. "No, I haven't told my parents. Come on Harry, do I really look that dumb to you?"

    "Shouldn't that be 'our parents'?" he asked slowing down to look at her... and probably psych himself up to open his Sight.

    "English wasn't really made for this situation, but I can't share the Language like this. I can to other stuff though. Wanna see?"

    "Something tells me I'm getting an eyefull anyway." The words were wary, so was the tone, but there was something else there, not interest, exciting as that would be to see, but curiosity and love of magic that bound all wizards together, across nations and ages.

    Quietly you beacon him into the building, away from the eyes of passers by and...

    It did not feel like your bones reshaping, muscles qualifying, joints compacting, though all those things were happening it felt like confirmation of a very simple truth: Flesh is illusion. Now you are winged and flying about his head, the colors of the world made that much more vibrant from a bird's-eye view. After a brief stop-over on his shoulder you swoop down and are made Molly-in-Form once more.

    1 Willpower Used -> Font of Power at 3/5

    "You can turn into a bird?" One can't say Harry does not pay attention, he knows there's more to it than that.

    "Any shape I can hold in my mind from this world or the other. I don't think Chicago is quite ready for another dinosaur," you joke. "Or a dragon-in-flesh..." OK, the eyes were getting a little too wide there. "Just in flesh, sheesh Harry, it is just shape, it's not stewardship over the elements."

    "That's good, just keep it low-key alright, birds, small mamals, stuff that wouldn't look out of place in a city," he answered heading up the stairs.

    "Your friends turn into wolves," you point out.

    "They're careful and it's the only thing they can turn into," Harry falls right into your clever trap. You like to imagine he gets it from the smile before you speak.

    "So you won't mind if I teach them how to turn into other stuff them."

    OOC: Vote for the previous option still open, just wanted to show what your clones are up to and also introduce Song of Perennial Hours Intrinsically Ascending. She is the one with flesh shaping and shape change which makes her a lot more expresive and that includes being openly flirty. But hey at least she did not flick on Siren Veil. She's being good.
     
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    • Azais said:
    @DragonParadox I think it's better to just close the vote, the winning plan has a good advantage and it doesn't look like more votes will appear or be exchanged.
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    Fair enough, it looked a lot closer when I started writing the interlude. We can do two updates today
    Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jun 25, 2024 at 11:32 AM, finished with 93 posts and 27 votes.
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    Yog said:
    Yes, obviously it needs to be on our terms. But the way to do this is not to freeze out other parties, but to coopt them and to reach an agreement / compromise on how the masquerade is going down. The more parties agree on the united vision of masquerade breakdown, the smoother it'll go, I feel.
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    United in one sense doesn't mean we can't have problems between us. These guys aren't a power abroad; we'd be dealing them into the game by acting, not freezing them out by sabotaging them.


    Yog said:
    They didn't take the Cauldron of Rebirth in order to gain possession of it. They took it with a specific goal in mind - resurrecting Arthur. Telling them "you do not get to use the Cauldron" is the same as telling them "you do not get to resurrect Arthur". Plus, it's coached in very hostile language.
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    You're splitting hairs here. They wanted to take something of power to serve their purpose, Arthur's brand recognition doesn't change that. It's not like it was a thing of selfishness on the part of Arawn or his wife's part. They looked at the available information and thought it was too risky for other people; if they were just assholes then they could have charged them almost anything and let Arthur ride again regardless of the consequences.

    So the other party decided that their cause was just enough to forgive injustice done in its name.
    DragonParadox said:
    "Stars and stones what do you mean you just... where'd you get the body? How? Does Michael know?"
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    Harry kinda dropped the body question pretty quick. Did he realize we could just shape one from raw essence or is he assuming we built a fleshy drone?
     
    Arc 13 Post 17: From Knee to Eye
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    • From Knee to Eye ​

    4rd of February 2007 A.D.

    "Help us," you answer plainly. "Knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength. Two things only I ask of thee, to leave in this place the Cauldron you have come to claim, a poisoned quest this has been from the start and poison it is still..." It is hard to read the faces of the three by just the light that slips through the crack in the wall, but there is a thoughtful expression etched onto the face of Sir Mabon, not without pain or sorrow, but more than just the realization that as his companion said 'you are on this side of the door and he on that'.

    Lost 1 Essence -> Now at 14/15

    "If you would walk the world anew I ask that you respect the veil which keeps it from war's devastation, for that a great evil seeks to tear." On the other hand Sir Gwair appears untroubled, almost serene. It almost makes you take a step back, the light of those too-green eyes. Yet it is to Lyr that your eyes slip, the spokesman of the three as much as they could be said to have one golden haired and even after all this time seemingly more accustomed to smiling than to sadness, nodding along to your words almost as if he is not surprised at all to hear then.

    Almost you miss the way in which his eyes dart to his more recalcitrant companion even as there is a tap on the door, knee-high as though in impatience to finally be free. Of all things you are reminded of a saying that Izzy had gotten from her grandmother, the kind of old lady they used to call a battleaxe in the old days for fear of being cut: "Don't be breaking your shin on a stool that's not in your way."

    Lyr Half-tongue has a plan of some sort, that you know before he even opens his mouth to agree. "We are not ones to deny a lady when she is in need of aid..." He sweeps his gaze to Lydia. "Even a lady whose dungeons we find ourselves in though our own fault and folly. More we will swear if that is what you ask of us, to serve you a year and a day however you might wish and in that time learn more of the changing tides of the world and when that time is done we will not ask for any Cauldron of your keeping, but head out into the wide world to follow older vows. To Arthur we are sworn, but Arthur yet is sleeping in Avalon and so he's done for many a long years. It does him no more harm to sleep another year so that we three who have already erred so far don't set the haystack on fire once again."

    "Ah... Molly," Olivia speaks up quietly, and obviously in English. "I think he's doing the thing you and Lydia can do, set power spinning 'round and 'round to make yourselves better at something, not even threading past the weave of happenings like I have to, but just cutting through. I couldn't... well you know what don't you? I'd explode if I tried to burn that much power all in one go."

    Olivia lost 1 Willpower -> Now at 9/10

    Essence, you realize with a shiver at once of wariness and excitement, after all the dreaming of old, all the marks and faded memories you had found another like you and like Lydia... Exalted. You bite back a laugh, didn't the poem call them so through the years and the hand of who knows how many scribes. What about the others? Are they...?

    "Well," Lydia says with what can only be deliberate understatement. "At least I know that year and change of service would be worth it."

    "Why does that matter?" Daniel asks, bemused. "Molly you asked for their help because you thought they could be of help right? That... power only makes it more true."

    You are reminded once again of the words of Uriel, the power you hold was not meant to allow mortals to do that which is merely difficult, but that which is impossible. If anyone could see that Arthur could be raised even without the Cauldron of Rebirth they might be able to manage it.

    What do you do?

    [] Free them under the conditions proposed

    [] Question Lyr about the power he used

    [] Write in

    OOC: You know Olivia was a bit of a fifth wheel in this scene, until Lyria and Tiffany both failed their Supernatural Awareness and only the fact that she does not speak Latin and was getting bored inclined her to roll active Mana Manipulation to see what was going on.
     
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