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Army of Liberty: a Fantasy Revolutionary Warfare Quest

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Red Rationalist said:
I'm going to say "quite unlikely", considering he's waiting for better weather. He's not trying to march over a even longer land route when his first attempt failed.
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I would also consider him going on the offensive unlikely, but I also consider such a bold strategy to actually be a pretty good counter for us assaulting Daurstein. He can easily destroy the sixth army and take Antreville if he gets there, so him crossing the river now after all and marching south would really complicate things for us. So, that is why I wonder, what would we do in that unlikely scenario? Abandon Daurstein and rush towards Antreville as well?
 
Chimeraguard said:
Plans for facing von Trotha seem to expect that the VI Army will hasten to come to our aid after our letter, but I don't see a particularly good reason to be certain about this. We don't know what orders the VI Army might have been given specifically, but I imagine they certainly didn't expect a change of circumstances to allow for an outright invasion of Norn. I don't think a letter is going to cut it for convincing him to commit to what he'd almost certainly see as a gamble with his green, untested troops.
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You are entitled to your own opinion, but I wouldn't call taking a weakly defended border town in the aftermath of a victory an invasion. More a slight push forward for to sake of a buffer zone.
Chimeraguard said:
And I think that in the longer term, we'll have a better working relationship with Guillory if our first real interaction with him is a meeting in person explaining everything that has happened, not just a letter calling on him to reinforce our own attack into Norn, regardless of how golden the opportunity is.
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Fair, but the military reality doesn't allow to meet him in person without giving up our forward position. We can apologize to him personally, if he really is insulted.
 
The Laurent said:
Antreville is far enough back that it's essentially giving up all momentum. It can still be justified, but it has to contend with that fact. It is true that the strongest way to get Guillory on our side is to meet in person, but I think that the way that the letter is phrased is honestly quite mild. Like fundamentally time is of the essence and the weather is poor, if he blames us for not personally hurrying to tell him all of the hot goss face to face, then there's honestly kinda a problem already...
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I think it's not a question of blame, it's a question of the fact that being there in person means it's far easier to learn what concerns he might have about going on the offensive and personally work to reassure him about them. Which would make it much easier to actually convince him to go for an offensive push.

I think if we were in his position, we'd be feeling pretty uneasy about shifting from defense to counterattack into Norn's borders when our entire army consists of green troops and we only have a letter to go off of.
 
Photomajig said:
Generally, we'll be looking at "everyone gets to leave with their weapons and their stuff, the Fifth Army isn't billeted within the city but outside it, the city isn't looted, there's at least a day for the folks inside to pack their stuff and gather provisions for the road, the enemy can safely retreat without having fear of being attacked on the way to friendly territory" (in this case, probably to the other side of the Raoille in the north).

That's what I'd rate generous. You can certainly press for harsher terms than that.
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Yeah, that's fine-ish. The most beyond that I was imagining was perhaps 'don't take the artillery with you' or something, but if that would do, I'd honestly be tempted to let it ride. Yes in theory they're going to be used against us in the future, but in practice after losing the fight and then being shown mercy in exchange for packing up and leaving, I think they're going to be gone for at least another few months further.

It just seems like a series of events, between a total defeat and generous terms, where they'll be effectively gone from the Campaign/the events of the next few months? Obviously if this war lasts a few years they'll be back... but, like, and?
 
Chimeraguard said:
I think it's not a question of blame, it's a question of the fact that being there in person means it's far easier to learn what concerns he might have about going on the offensive and personally work to reassure him about them. Which would make it much easier to actually convince him to go for an offensive push.

I think if we were in his position, we'd be feeling pretty uneasy about shifting from defense to counterattack into Norn's borders when our entire army consists of green troops and we only have a letter to go off of.
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If we went on our own we'd delay any offensive for a week at a time where every minute counted, and in exchange we'd have to be hurrying there and back. If we're actually worried about von Trotha and being caught out, that's valuable time where we could be taking the city and taking up defensive positions to see what he does.
 
The Laurent said:
Antreville is far enough back that it's essentially giving up all momentum. It can still be justified, but it has to contend with that fact. It is true that the strongest way to get Guillory on our side is to meet in person, but I think that the way that the letter is phrased is honestly quite mild. Like fundamentally time is of the essence and the weather is poor, if he blames us for not personally hurrying to tell him all of the hot goss face to face, then there's honestly kinda a problem already...
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I did try to approach him as an equal, outline our reasoning while pointing out that the larger, experienced army isn't going to move backwards for the sake of the smaller one. It's not perfectly polite, but we have an informal superior-subordinate relationship. I avoided ordering him around by appealing to our status, instead explaining why our course of action must be done. We will see, I'm willing to apologize to him if he feels offended, but I wouldn't presume offense.
 
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Red Rationalist said:
I did try to approach him as an equal, outline our reasoning while pointing out that the larger, experienced army isn't going to move backwards for the sake of the smaller one. It's not perfectly polite, but we have an informal superior-subordinate relationship, with us not just appealing to our rank but explaining why it must be done in our opinion. We will see, I'm willing to apologize to him if he feels offended, but I wouldn't presume offense.
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Also this is the age of letter writing. We're not exactly co-workers sending as an email what we could do better as a meeting if we took the elevator to the next floor up.
 
Photomajig said:
Generally, we'll be looking at "everyone gets to leave with their weapons and their stuff, the Fifth Army isn't billeted within the city but outside it, the city isn't looted, there's at least a day for the folks inside to pack their stuff and gather provisions for the road, the enemy can safely retreat without having fear of being attacked on the way to friendly territory"
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These terms would be quite problematic for us, as they would mean the city's defenders could just join up with Von Trotha, making his army even stronger. Our chances to beat him would go from decent to slim...
 
Pinniped said:
These terms would be quite problematic for us, as they would mean the city's defenders could just join up with Von Trotha, making his army even stronger. Our chances to beat him would go from decent to slim...
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That is a point, though... question, @Photomajig , how does armies combining work? Like, could a bunch of Morale 0 troops join up with Morale Whatever troops and not have an impact on enemy morale? Can we basically get promises to keep on going or whatever else?
 
Pinniped said:
These terms would be quite problematic for us, as they would mean the city's defenders could just join up with Von Trotha, making his army even stronger. Our chances to beat him would go from decent to slim...
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Ehh. It's poorly trained garrisons plus heavily wounded and demoralized survivors. I don't think they would add much while he marches, they probably slow him down.
 
The big thing though is the two batteries of Field Artillery they'd probably have. 8 batteries of artillery in von Trotha's army would be uh...problematic.
 
Chimeraguard said:
The big thing though is the two batteries of Field Artillery they'd probably have. 8 batteries of artillery in von Trotha's army would be uh...problematic.
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I think I agree here. We could probably specifically prohibit the field artillery from being taken with them, offering them to be destroyed before surrender instead. Bit of a compromise, but we will see how it goes.
 
Red Rationalist said:
Ehh. It's poorly trained garrisons plus heavily wounded and demoralized survivors. I don't think they would add much while he marches, they probably slow him down.
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Those heavily wounded and demoralized survivors do include the rest of the army of the West, including two units of artillery (one being an Offensive Genius) and the nymphs. We already are unsure we can beat von Trotha, adding even low quality troops to his army will make beating him even harder.

Actually, a thought. @Photomajig, in battle, the Nymph trait provides bonuses to Resting for adjacent units, which I assume works in-universe due to Nymphs having healing ability/a soothing effect on Morale. Does this ability also work outside of battle, on the campaign level? Can we expect the survivors of the Army of the West to return to fighting shape faster than normal, due to the presence of the Nymphs?
 
yeah i think we have confiscating the artillery as part of the opening offer, and if thats a no-go, then we allow it to be spiked/slagged as a concession- but they cannot be allowed to supplement AG Centre with it
[x] The Laurent
 
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Pinniped said:
Those heavily wounded and demoralized survivors do include the rest of the army of the West, including two units of artillery (one being an Offensive Genius) and the nymphs. We already are unsure we can beat von Trotha, adding even low quality troops to his army will make beating him even harder.

Actually, a thought. @Photomajig, in battle, the Nymph trait provides bonuses to Resting for adjacent units, which I assume works in-universe due to Nymphs having healing ability/a soothing effect on Morale. Does this ability also work outside of battle, on the campaign level? Can we expect the survivors of the Army of the West to return to fighting shape faster than normal, due to the presence of the Nymphs?
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Wait, are we unsure? We outnumber von Trotha and our only real disadvantage is in artillery, which does make the artillery a sticking point, potentially!
 
Basically, @Photomajig , do you want us to get into the nuts and bolts for this vote, or are we going to trip on your Quest notes for Negotiation Phases of pre/non-combat where we'll get a choice to go back and forth on concessions/demands? Because I do worry about tying your hand too much, but.
 
The Laurent said:
Wait, are we unsure? We outnumber von Trotha and our only real disadvantage is in artillery, which does make the artillery a sticking point, potentially!
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I am unsure, since he does have a artillery advantage and some really good cavalry. Without good terrain, the battle will be bloody. With the survivors of the Army of the West and the garrison boosting his numbers, the battle will be bloody and difficult.
 
Pinniped said:
Those heavily wounded and demoralized survivors do include the rest of the army of the West, including two units of artillery (one being an Offensive Genius) and the nymphs. We already are unsure we can beat von Trotha, adding even low quality troops to his army will make beating him even harder.
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The nymphs could be a thorn in our side, but keep in mind that a bloodless surrender also gives more army options and time. Time that can be spent on drill, mentoring, getting supply trains with fresh recruits and raising new regiments. Time we can use to fortify our position. I'm a lot more confident about beating him if we get 6 days of recovery, resupply and fortification on our way. If this goes as planned, I'm decently confident, especially since we will be defending again with an equivalent artillery corps (from the captured field artillery). There is a lot that can improve our odds if we can skip the siege.
 
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