I think we should get started on Heatshielding and human rated rocketry.

For Facilities I'm thinking 3 for Assembly complex, 2 for Tacking and 3 for Spacefarer Training Facilities.
 
Lots of long term projects that lock our dice. At the World Council I foresee us asking for a lot more engineering and science dice so we can run multiple projects.
I was actually thinking of grabbing a Politics die or two next WC meeting. We've been forced to ignore the recruitment options simply because we don't have the Politics dice for them. Fixing that should really help our crunch in the long term. Plus, the Science crunch isn't too bad. We only have two new projects, and I have little interest in doing Supersonic Phase 3 rn unless the WC offer one hell of a bribe. It's in good enough shape that I'd be comfortable just doing Talent Scouting for now.

The
I think we should get started on Heatshielding and human rated rocketry.

For Facilities I'm thinking 3 for Assembly complex, 2 for Tacking and 3 for Spacefarer Training Facilities.
It sounds like we're going to be launching Spaceplanes from the rockets, so I want that figured out before we do human rated rocketry.
 
[] Plan Magic Carpet Ride

Ops 5/5 dice +3
-[] Construct an R-4 Dawn - (69/120+25) 4 dice, 140R
--[] And launch it - 1 die
---[] Curiosity-class Satellite (+25 progress requirement)

Facilities (Max 3 dice/project) /8 dice +10
-[] Build a Scientific Complex
--[] New Delhi Institute for Physics - (0/450) 3 dice 75R
-[] Tracking Station Construction (Phase 1) - (288/350) 2 dice 60R
-[] Spacefarer Training Facilities - (0/300) 3 dice 45R

Eng 5/5 dice +6 55R
-[] Rudimentary Heat Shielding [MATSCI] - 1 die 15R
-[] Observation Satellites - 1 die 15R
-[] Conduct Design Studies (Alternative Launch Systems) [AERO, PHYS] - (177/300) 2 dice 10R
-[] Balloon Tanks [MATSCI] - (100/200) 1 die 15R

Sci 4/4 +6 40R
-[] Weather Studies (Phase 4) [PHYS] - (146/240) 1 die 10R
-[] All-Sky Survey (Phase 1) [PHYS] - (0/300) 3 dice 30R

Pol 3/3 +10 15R
-[] Propagandize for Space - (0/???) 3 dice 15R
 
I'd really like to get started on the Aseembly Complex Expansion so we can auto building and launching Dawns with sats, since this is pretty much specefically what the program slot is FOR. I'm pretty much down for whatever else
 
I think it's worth noting that whatever we do here will be noted by the WC. As such, if there's a project we want to do for PS next turn, and we haven't done anything to that area this turn, we should probably throw a die on it now.
 
its first stage painted ocean-blue and its upper stage and fairing, respectively, painted black and red as had been decided by the Council. She had tried to tell them that the IEC's scientists recommended white for thermal control reasons, but that had been rejected, and so it was done.
I find this legit alarming, if the Council is meddling with IEC operations down to the paintjob. Such a tweak won't always be this harmless, damn politicians! Hope this is not an omen of misery to come.

But otherwise, this was lovely. All that prep, and finally seeing Humanity make its first mark upon the starts, beautiful! And having Penelope's children be by her side adds some great humanity to the event.

I see our improved instrumentation and rocket reels have been changed. Better rewards but also higher standards.
Now we only get our +1d2 field bonus for every two satellite launches instead of regular rocket launches.
And we only get a chance for more PS from rocket reels if we launch orbital rockets. So the era of spamming R-1s and R-2s is over. Now we need to be more substantial with our launches.
I like this mechanic of our modifiers gradually changing on their own as our technology and institutions advance. Means we as player's don't need to manage them too closely, and that we probably won't be dealing with excessive modifier spam if existing ones update.
 
There's an argument to be made here that since we have no pressing issues, we should probably stick our hands in as many pies as possible and make progress on a bunch of the smaller projects so that if the council asks, we can knock out a bunch quickly for some easy political capital.

Also, you know; SCIENCE!
 
I think we should get started on Heatshielding and human rated rocketry.

For Facilities I'm thinking 3 for Assembly complex, 2 for Tacking and 3 for Spacefarer Training Facilities.
I think we're a while off humans in space being anything more than a gimmick. We'd have to develop an entirely new launcher to do anything useful with them, and that means it's a very long term project at minimum. If we can get by for, say, ten years just coasting along launching weather satellites and developing our technological capabilities so that we can design an actually good rocket that'll be our standard crew shuttle for the next several decades, that's better than rushing towards a stopgap solution & then needing to do all that anyways after our first crewed launches. It's still described as a "should the need arise" thing, not a "we need this to do ___" thing.

Basically, I think we should avoid the Apollo trap of "we MUST achieve this prestige program within x years", throwing a lot of money at something that's only going to be used a half-dozen times, and then immediately afterwards being stuck because we can't afford to keep doing it because our rush to get it done meant we prioritized short term instead of long term solutions. I feel like rushing to put people into space before we have an actual need is possibly falling into that trap.
I was actually thinking of grabbing a Politics die or two next WC meeting. We've been forced to ignore the recruitment options simply because we don't have the Politics dice for them. Fixing that should really help our crunch in the long term. Plus, the Science crunch isn't too bad. We only have two new projects, and I have little interest in doing Supersonic Phase 3 rn unless the WC offer one hell of a bribe. It's in good enough shape that I'd be comfortable just doing Talent Scouting for now.

The

It sounds like we're going to be launching Spaceplanes from the rockets, so I want that figured out before we do human rated rocketry.
Every die we grab is less that goes towards reconstruction, increasing the overall budget of the world government. We're not able to keep maxing out our dice at a sustainable funding level (IMO, 1%). 1% of 50000 in the future is better to me than 1.5% of 32000 now. We're not in a rush.
I'd really like to get started on the Aseembly Complex Expansion so we can auto building and launching Dawns with sats, since this is pretty much specefically what the program slot is FOR. I'm pretty much down for whatever else
The R-4 is, based on some math we did, a relatively primitive design. If we were to do some modest improvements that don't constitute a full redesign (lightweight tanks, probably improving avionics, vacuum nozzles on the upper stages, getting some cleaner-burning propellants to improve reliability, etc.), we could put something like 800 kg into orbit. I'd rather we hold off on the assembly complex until we develop that "generation 1.5" rocket since we're only a year or two out, because 8 metric sputniks gives us a lot of room to play with payloads.

Anyways, a plan:

[] Plan: end-of-year holiday
-[] Tracking Station Construction (Phase I) (3 dice)
-[] Rudimentary Heat Shielding [MATSCI] (1 die)
-[] Design Studies (Alternative Launch Systems) (1 die)
-[] Balloon Tanks [MATSCI] (1 die)
-[] Weather Studies (Phase 4) (1 die)
-[] All-Sky Survey (Phase 1) (1 die)
-[] Photovoltaic Investigations (1 die)
-[] Propagandize for Space (3 dice)

This is a low cost plan that lets us bank a LOT of resources. If so, we can consider dropping back to 1% funding despite asking for some of the better promises (or picking more promises). With the war ending we'll probably lose a lot of the easy PS sources we've been reliant on so far, so now's a time for being a bit cautious. I'm also avoiding things like research labs or new launch complexes and stuff like that which showed up in prior promises so that they can still be promised next year. The things I did pick are either very low cost and unlikely to be a promise (heat shielding, alternative launch systems now that it's already started, weather studies) or are critical for later stuff (photovoltaics probably needs to be done before we do weather satellites, if we want something which won't run out of power immediately).
 
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I think we're a while off humans in space being anything more than a gimmick. We'd have to develop an entirely new launcher to do anything useful with them, and that means it's a very long term project at minimum. If we can get by for, say, ten years just coasting along launching weather satellites and developing our technological capabilities so that we can design an actually good rocket that'll be our standard crew shuttle for the next several decades, that's better than rushing towards a stopgap solution & then needing to do all that anyways after our first crewed launches. It's still described as a "should the need arise" thing, not a "we need this to do ___" thing.

Basically, I think we should avoid the Apollo trap of "we MUST achieve this prestige program within x years", throwing a lot of money at something that's only going to be used a half-dozen times, and then immediately afterwards being stuck because we can't afford to keep doing it because our rush to get it done meant we prioritized short term instead of long term solutions. I feel like rushing to put people into space before we have an actual need is possibly falling into that trap.
While we definitely do not want to overextend for prestige reasons, we also don't want to make too huge a jump from unmanned to manned missions. Jumping straight from "small rockets than can't even put 1 ton into orbit" to "general-purpose shuttle that will serve our crewed needs for decades" is overambitious and dangerous. Better to go through an intermediary step where we have a rocket that is not far outside our expertise but can still launch limited missions with one or two people and get a feel of our needs, before we aim for the stars with a future-proof design.

I do like the idea of a plan that focuses on least resource-intensive projects to give our builders a bit of a break and bank some for next plan. Nice one. Maybe put a die on further propaganda for nuclear power, to get ready for the coming conference.
 
[] Plan: Researching
-[] Operations (5/5 dice, +3 bonus, 140R)
--[] Construct an R-4 Dawn - (69/120+25) 4 dice, 140R
---[] And launch it - 1 die
----[] Curiosity-class Satellite (+25 progress requirement)
-[] Facilities (6/8 dice, +10 bonus, 150R)
--[] Expand the Assembly Complex (0/350) 3D 60R
--[] Tracking Station Construction (Phase I) (288/350) 3D 90R
-[] Engineering (5/5 dice, +6 Bonus, 55R)
--[] Rudimentary Heat Shielding [MATSCI] (0/2 turns) 1 dice 15R
--[] Observation Satellites (0/6 turns) 1 dice 15R
--[] Conduct Design Studies (Alternative Launch Systems) [AERO, PHYS] (177/300) 2 dice 10R
--[] Balloon Tanks [MATSCI] (100/200) 1 dice 15R
-[] Science (4/4 dice, +6 Bonus, 55R)
--[] Photovoltaic Investigations (0/4 turns) 1 dice 20R
--[] Weather Studies (Phase 4) [PHYS] (146/240) 1 dice 10R
--[] Exploratory Propellant Research (Phase 1) [CHEM] (0/150) 1 dice 15R
--[] All-Sky Survey (Phase 1) [PHYS] (0/300) 1 dice 10R
-[] Politics (3/3 dice, +10 bonus, reroll 1, 10R, -2PS)
--[] Propagandize for Nuclear Power (100/???) 1 dice -2PS
--[] Propagandize for Space (0/???) 2 dice 10R
-[] 410/450R, -2SP
 
While we definitely do not want to overextend for prestige reasons, we also don't want to make too huge a jump from unmanned to manned missions. Jumping straight from "small rockets than can't even put 1 ton into orbit" to "general-purpose shuttle that will serve our crewed needs for decades" is overambitious and dangerous. Better to go through an intermediary step where we have a rocket that is not far outside our expertise but can still launch limited missions with one or two people and get a feel of our needs, before we aim for the stars with a future-proof design.


Well, looking at extant launch systems, any launch system capable of getting a few people to orbit also works well as a general purpose booster. A rocket like that could even support us for cislunar operations if we're willing to depend on orbital rendezvous - and since orbital labs and such are probably going to be an easier sell than a literal moonshot, we're probably going to have to get good at it anyway.
 
While we definitely do not want to overextend for prestige reasons, we also don't want to make too huge a jump from unmanned to manned missions. Jumping straight from "small rockets than can't even put 1 ton into orbit" to "general-purpose shuttle that will serve our crewed needs for decades" is overambitious and dangerous. Better to go through an intermediary step where we have a rocket that is not far outside our expertise but can still launch limited missions with one or two people and get a feel of our needs, before we aim for the stars with a future-proof design.

I do like the idea of a plan that focuses on least resource-intensive projects to give our builders a bit of a break and bank some for next plan. Nice one. Maybe put a die on further propaganda for nuclear power, to get ready for the coming conference.
The "shuttle" itself wouldn't be part of the upgraded rocket, but instead the payload of it. Making a jump to a rocket that can put 5-10 tons into orbit also isn't a huge problem if we take time with it - we also want to take the time to get it right and do things like limited reuse (e.g., engine pod recovery), since we're not on a deadline or have commonality with an ICBM program. The future-proof design is in the booster, not the capsule on top, and we should be able to do that within a decade - just look at Soyuz.

As for human spaceflight in general, I think people are getting distracted by the shiny and ignoring that we don't yet have a use case. Sure, there's science that can be done by humans in orbit, but that generally requires a lot more upmass than what we could get done with an intermediate rocket between the 800 kilo and, say, 8 tonner. Our goal is to improve the lives of everyone, not prove that we can put a human in space for its own sake, and we need to remember that. Mercury was playing catch-up to the other guys' analogue for dropping nukes on the US, Gemini was learning how to keep a human alive in space so America could beat the goddammed commies to the moon, and after that you've got the huge rockets of Apollo. These aren't exactly objectives we can point to and say "look, impoverished working masses of the world, we are helping you out". What can improve lives is if we focus on psatellites in the short term, and then developing the rocket large enough that when we do put humans in orbit, we can also send up a proper laboratory for them to do science with.
Well, looking at extant launch systems, any launch system capable of getting a few people to orbit also works well as a general purpose booster. A rocket like that could even support us for cislunar operations if we're willing to depend on orbital rendezvous - and since orbital labs and such are probably going to be an easier sell than a literal moonshot, we're probably going to have to get good at it anyway.
Yeah, exactly this. If we're not doing Mercury-tier spam in a can, the booster needed is large enough to satisfy needs for decades to come. We should develop one that's good for that long, like Soyuz, instead of rushing something out to put a human in space then trying to redo that work to develop something which will become our workhorse.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not against us doing something like a tank-stretched, heavily improved R-4 as a way to do a Mercury analogue to test out humans in space, but that should be done once we've conceived of a use case.
 
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Edit: To be clear, I'm not against us doing something like a tank-stretched, heavily improved R-4 as a way to do a Mercury analogue to test out humans in space, but that should be done once we've conceived of a use case.

Well, if you hold to the belief that 1) space and zero-g science does have tangible benefits (thus justifing space research beyond just earth observation) and 2) a manned laboratory in space can be more flexible than unmanned systems (thus justifying manned operations at all and not just robots) then you can work backwards from wanting manned orbital labs to needing to know that people (and our organization) can even operate in space.

So a brief jaunt into space just to confirm humans can work up there is plausible, especially since it's the 50s.
 
[] Plan Magic Carpet Riders

Ops 5/5 dice +3
-[] Construct an R-4 Dawn - (69/120+25) 3 dice, 105R
--[] And launch it - 2 die
---[] Curiosity-class Satellite (+25 progress requirement)

Facilities (Max 3 dice/project) 7/8 dice +10
-[] Expand the Assembly Complex 3 dice 60R
-[] Tracking Station Construction (Phase 1) - (288/350) 2 dice 60R
-[ ] Spacefarer Training Facilities 1 die 15R

Eng 5/5 dice +6 55R
-[] Rudimentary Heat Shielding [MATSCI] - 1 die 15R [LOCKED
-[] Observation Satellites - 1 die 15R [LOCKED]
-[ ] Human-rated Rocketry - 1 die 20R [LOCKED]
-[] Balloon Tanks [MATSCI] - (100/200) 1 die 15R
-[ ] Lifting Body 1 die 10R

Sci 4/4 +6 40R
-[ ] Exploratory Propellant Research (Phase 1) [CHEM] 2 dice 30R
-[ ] Weather Studies (Phase 4) [PHYS] 1 die 10R
-[ ] Photovoltaic Investigations -1 die 20R [LOCKED]

Pol 3/3 +10 15R
-[] Propagandize for Space - (0/???) 2 dice 10R
-[ ] The Right Stuff -1 die 5R

I need to deliver some ham-balls around, but this is a 'man in space soon' plan that gets started on the 2 year project to think about what we need for man-rated and sized rockets.
 
Well, if you hold to the belief that 1) space and zero-g science does have tangible benefits (thus justifing space research beyond just earth observation) and 2) a manned laboratory in space can be more flexible than unmanned systems (thus justifying manned operations at all and not just robots) then you can work backwards from wanting manned orbital labs to needing to know that people (and our organization) can even operate in space.

So a brief jaunt into space just to confirm humans can work up there is plausible, especially since it's the 50s.
Sure, but 2) is conditional on expecting to be able to launch a manned laboratory, which is not something I think we will be able to realistically justify within the next five years. Once we approach that capability, then yes, working backwards to trying that out makes sense.

If I had to roughly assign an "order to do things", excluding background research, it'd be:
  1. do a slight improvement on the R-4 with the new things we've learnt like Al-Li and eventually vacuum nozzles to improve our payload mass
  2. launch a whole bunch of first-generation satellites to grab the low hanging fruit for earth observation and orbital science (we need to do this anyways, discovering something else like the van allen belts with a crewed spacecraft would be... bad)
  3. do a major improvement on the R-4 as a sub-scale prototype for the eventual standard rocket, use it to launch a Mercury capsule type thing
  4. introduce the R-5, which is aggressively optimized to put enough payload into LEO that we can do useful crewed science at a minimum cost (through things like reuse)
I think the first two are achievable five-year goals, while the latter two are ten-year goals. Sure, we're only putting astronauts into orbit in the early '60s, but we'd be able to then follow that up relatively quickly with not-Mir, and that to me is far more impressive.
 
I think we're a while off humans in space being anything more than a gimmick. We'd have to develop an entirely new launcher to do anything useful with them, and that means it's a very long term project at minimum. If we can get by for, say, ten years just coasting along launching weather satellites and developing our technological capabilities so that we can design an actually good rocket that'll be our standard crew shuttle for the next several decades, that's better than rushing towards a stopgap solution & then needing to do all that anyways after our first crewed launches. It's still described as a "should the need arise" thing, not a "we need this to do ___" thing.
If we're not consistently beating the IRL time table of space born achievements, what is even the point?
 
I think there's an argument to be made that, if we keep popularizing space exploration in the public mind, that a public push for manned spaceflight will eventually happen to at least some degree. I expect that one of these council meetings we are going to see a Promise to pursue Humans in Space from somebody.

Which still leaves us with whether or not we should Starrett pursuing it now. While I don't think we should make it a priority or anything, we could defo stand to start some of the underlying research now.
 
Sure, but 2) is conditional on expecting to be able to launch a manned laboratory, which is not something I think we will be able to realistically justify within the next five years. Once we approach that capability, then yes, working backwards to trying that out makes sense.

Oh, agreed; I meant in the general sense - you can justify a Mercury type program more easily if you can point at some sort of eventual value. Easier to convince people we should start small if there is something bigger to build up to down the road, even if it is WAY down the road.
 
[X] Plan: Researching
-[X] Operations (5/5 dice, +3 bonus, 140R)
--[X] Construct an R-4 Dawn - (69/120+25) 4 dice, 140R
---[X] And launch it - 1 die
----[X] Curiosity-class Satellite (+25 progress requirement)
-[X] Facilities (6/8 dice, +10 bonus, 150R)
--[X] Expand the Assembly Complex (0/350) 3D 60R
--[X] Tracking Station Construction (Phase I) (288/350) 3D 90R
-[X] Engineering (5/5 dice, +6 Bonus, 55R)
--[X] Rudimentary Heat Shielding [MATSCI] (0/2 turns) 1 dice 15R
--[X] Observation Satellites (0/6 turns) 1 dice 15R
--[X] Conduct Design Studies (Alternative Launch Systems) [AERO, PHYS] (177/300) 2 dice 10R
--[X] Balloon Tanks [MATSCI] (100/200) 1 dice 15R
-[X] Science (4/4 dice, +6 Bonus, 60R)
--[X] Photovoltaic Investigations (0/4 turns) 1 dice 20R
--[X] Weather Studies (Phase 4) [PHYS] (146/240) 1 dice 10R
--[X] Exploratory Propellant Research (Phase 1) [CHEM] (0/150) 2 dice 30R
-[X] Politics (3/3 dice, +10 bonus, reroll 1, 10R, -2PS)
--[X] Propagandize for Nuclear Power (100/???) 1 dice -2PS
--[X] Propagandize for Space (0/???) 2 dice 10R
-[X] 415/450R, -2SP
 
[X] Plan: Winter Holiday
-[X] Tracking Station Construction (Phase I) (3 dice)
-[X] Rudimentary Heat Shielding [MATSCI] (1 die)
-[X] Design Studies (Alternative Launch Systems) (1 die)
-[X] Balloon Tanks [MATSCI] (1 die)
-[X] Weather Studies (Phase 4) (1 die)
-[X] All-Sky Survey (Phase 1) (1 die)
-[X] Photovoltaic Investigations (1 die)
-[X] Propagandize for Space (2 dice)
-[X] Propagandize for Nuclear Power(1 die)
 
Building a sustainable base for long term growth so that we don't hit the same post-Apollo slump and can start doing really fun stuff like massive space stations, long duration lunar stays, etc.
You do know that the post-apollo slump was caused by funding cuts, not by having failed to create a 'sustainable base for long term growth' right? Creating a reusable Saturn 5 1st stage wouldn't have helped much. Hell, they were trying to create a sustainable base with the space shuttle, where did that get them?

[X] Plan Magic Carpet Riders

Ops 5/5 dice +3 105R
-[X] Construct an R-4 Dawn - (69/120+25) 3 dice, 105R
--[X] And launch it - 2 die
---[X] Curiosity-class Satellite (+25 progress requirement)

Facilities (Max 3 dice/project) 7/8 dice +10 150R
-[X] Expand the Assembly Complex 3 dice 60R
-[X] Tracking Station Construction (Phase 1) - (288/350) 2 dice 60R
-[X] Spacefarer Training Facilities 2 die 30R

Eng 5/5 dice +6 75R
-[X] Rudimentary Heat Shielding [MATSCI] - 1 die 15R [LOCKED
-[X] Observation Satellites - 1 die 15R [LOCKED]
-[X] Human-rated Rocketry - 1 die 20R [LOCKED]
-[X] Balloon Tanks [MATSCI] - (100/200) 1 die 15R
-[X] Lifting Body 1 die 10R

Sci 4/4 +6 60R
-[X] Exploratory Propellant Research (Phase 1) [CHEM] 2 dice 30R
-[X] Weather Studies (Phase 4) [PHYS] 1 die 10R
-[X] Photovoltaic Investigations -1 die 20R [LOCKED]

Pol 3/3 +10 15R
-[X] Propagandize for Space - (0/???) 2 dice 10R
-[X] The Right Stuff -1 die 5R
 
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[X] Plan Magic Carpet Riders

You do know that the post-apollo slump was caused by funding cuts, not by having failed to create a 'sustainable base for long term growth' right? Creating a reusable Saturn 5 1st stage wouldn't have helped much. Hell, they were trying to create a sustainable base with the space shuttle, where did that get them?
Also we have the advantage over NASA that our budget is fully discretionary. We get a percentage of the world economy and can do what we feel would be the best use of it rather than having to get each program budgeted for and approved individually.
 
[X] Plan Magic Carpet Ride

Ops 5/5 dice +3
-[X] Construct an R-4 Dawn - (69/120+25) 4 dice, 140R
--[X] And launch it - 1 die
---[X] Curiosity-class Satellite (+25 progress requirement)

Facilities (Max 3 dice/project) /8 dice +10
-[X] Build a Scientific Complex
--[X] New Delhi Institute for Physics - (0/450) 3 dice 75R
-[X] Tracking Station Construction (Phase 1) - (288/350) 2 dice 60R
-[X] Spacefarer Training Facilities - (0/300) 3 dice 45R

Eng 5/5 dice +6 55R
-[X] Rudimentary Heat Shielding [MATSCI] - 1 die 15R
-[X] Observation Satellites - 1 die 15R
-[X] Conduct Design Studies (Alternative Launch Systems) [AERO, PHYS] - (177/300) 2 dice 10R
-[X] Balloon Tanks [MATSCI] - (100/200) 1 die 15R

Sci 4/4 +6 40R
-[X] Weather Studies (Phase 4) [PHYS] - (146/240) 1 die 10R
-[X] All-Sky Survey (Phase 1) [PHYS] - (0/300) 3 dice 30R

Pol 3/3 +10 15R
-[X] Propagandize for Space - (0/???) 3 dice 15R
 
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