- Location
- Venezuela
Me too
. Solar Exalt Amu for the win!
Shards of a Broken Sun [Megaten/Shugo Chara/Exalted]
- Thread starter Baughn
- Start date
- Crossover
. Solar Exalt Amu for the win!
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
That should also work fine. Though if you want a reference, here's Misaka Mikoto at... about 50% power maybe.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXkbQoXNusc
And in an extended fight.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnkaBhF2HQ0
Electromastery has a lot of incidental applications; it's not just railguns or lightning bolts. Makoto is unlikely to ever crack WiFi with her mind, because that depends on specific details of how Academy City's espers work that don't apply here, but standing on the side of a building is a reasonable enough application given a bit more training.
<Utau> I appreciate the incognito-mode baseball cap.
To put it one way.
A 'typical' Level 5 can solo a modern army if they had control of initiative and circumstance, Misaka Mikoto just steamrolls a Russian army group at some point on her own. A Level 4 could take on a squad with decent odds, though they most likely can disengage if they weren't winning. A Level 3 is just with a built in infinite ammo rocket launcher.
Pre-nerf Accelerator and Dark Matter given the same can take on a modern superpower's entire resources and only lose because they had to sleep at some point and aren't willing to actually render the planet uninhabitable.
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- Location
- Laniakea
Bit of an exaggeration. Kakine can't take a nuclear bomb to the face, unlike Accelerator. At least not if he was unaware one got dropped on him. Being asleep helps, but realistically if it got dropped several kilometers away, he still wouldn't know until the blast wave vaporized him. Accelerator's passive reflection would save him from that even if he was asleep.
However - pre-nerf Accelerator also has a vulnerability in his passive shield, specifically there being a certain timing within which it will let incoming force through, if its direction is reversed at a certain precise moment (the "Kihara Counter"). Making it very possible to assassinate him, especially considering the guy typically is disinterested in his surroundings to the point where he will frivolously use his power to block out sound completely, on account of him thinking that background noise is annoying.
The guy literally would not notice it coming, if someone took a sledgehammer to the back of his head using the Kihara Counter. The only problem is, you'd only get one chance and you would really have to go for the head, as Accelerator can use his power to control his own blood flow and keep his organs patched up in that way. It'd basically be brain-or-bust, targeting anything else would not be as effective as it should and would give him time to retaliate.
I know that Nadeshiko/Nagihiko was brought up before as a top-tier Lunar candidate, but s/he is pretty psionic all things considered. Well, unless you decide to ignore that Nagihiko throws around energy balls (and energy-empowered basketballs) when Chara-Transformed with Rhythm as Beat Jumper.
Though if it's not Nadeshiko, I don't have much of a guess.
Me too
The way it was phrased makes me suspect we'll be getting a choice about who to give the Exaltation to. How broad or narrow the choice is, who knows.
But odds seem pretty excellent that Amu will be on the list.
NHO
Dumb is a state of existence
- Location
- ᓚᘏᗢ
Remember: it's a ToAru, series where physical realty is periodically rewritten when each new belief gets enough power (and person most conforming to that belief gets to be a Magical God)
It's also a series where everyone missed a few billions years of time, because Touma and Odin wannabe had a little philosophical dispute that included recreating the world. About once per day or so.
It's also a series where everyone missed a few billions years of time, because Touma and Odin wannabe had a little philosophical dispute that included recreating the world. About once per day or so.
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
I'm going to strive to write something a little more sensible, then, and you should assume any comparisons I've drawn to ToAru are to the surface-level appearances--not the underlying lore.
For one thing physical reality only gets re-created every six thousand years or so here.
I imagine @Baughn is also thinking more of the Railgun spinoff, where powers are in general a bit more sensibly laid out. So we probably should take the anime series of that as more of a guide on how far things can go, then any of the Lore. Because well, as they allude to themselves, it gets a bit strange.
In any case, if that is the case each power has a fair amount of max power. But more importantly, it has a lot of things in the details that can make them far more versatile then one might on surface level expect. Like electricity manipulation allowing for magnetic field manipulation, allowing for moving around materials that can be magnetized, like iron particles. Or you know, computers run on electricity, so if your fine control is good enough and your mind capable enough, you could hack a computer from the outside, security has no grasp on you at all.
But as such in the end many skills can do a lot if one doesn't just think of the large scale manipulation one can do, and also ponder the super small scale manipulations one could do with it. The detail work can matter a lot on just how far you can make something go. And as such, any of Amu's skill can probably be leveraged a lot to do things you wouldn't normally think they could do.
In any case, if that is the case each power has a fair amount of max power. But more importantly, it has a lot of things in the details that can make them far more versatile then one might on surface level expect. Like electricity manipulation allowing for magnetic field manipulation, allowing for moving around materials that can be magnetized, like iron particles. Or you know, computers run on electricity, so if your fine control is good enough and your mind capable enough, you could hack a computer from the outside, security has no grasp on you at all.
But as such in the end many skills can do a lot if one doesn't just think of the large scale manipulation one can do, and also ponder the super small scale manipulations one could do with it. The detail work can matter a lot on just how far you can make something go. And as such, any of Amu's skill can probably be leveraged a lot to do things you wouldn't normally think they could do.
That kind of thing tends to rely on utterly bullshit "no-limits" levels of fine control, processing speed, and multitasking capability, though. Electricity powers don't automatically imply the processing speed to see or understand what's going on in a computer running code you don't understand at a clock rate in the gigahertz. Even just trying to read code or data "at rest" with electrical powers instead of interpreting active execution would be a tremendous task.
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- Location
- Laniakea
Dunno if "sensible" is the word I would use.
Just a reminder that some of the later chapters of Railgun include Espers like this who ability is to create honest-to-god black holes. The gravitational singularity kind.
That the incidents in Railgun don't ramp up to the point where we actually see her make one that destroys the Earth (unlike all the stuff with Phase-creation/destruction in Index) and instead just mainly get her borrowing part of Touma's Level-6 Shift-eating dragon arm and messing around with it is ostensibly because Railgun is a spinoff and meant to be "lower-scale" than the world-ending disasters seen in "main series" Index.
That doesn't mean such powers don't exist and that the girl can't create solar-system-destroying black holes. Only that the series actively avoids her doing it.
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Oh agreed, so in real world terms you could say that powers are constrained by about three variables. Total power, Fine Control, Computational ability.
Increasing any of those will gain you new abilities, all three going up a lot is as you say pretty busted. It is worth noting though that psychic powers do seem to allow for such fine control and computational growth though, else things like Makoto's Bioelectric ability, of Amu's Biokinesis make little sense. Both of those require being able to compute a lot of extremely fine details correctly. Even if one argues that the system is partially taking care of it, or that it might not be quite as complicated in certain kinds of physical systems, it's pretty hard to avoid not needing to be able to some how compute quite a bit of very small actions quickly.
So in that sense, you are correct about the computer matter, but at the same time... it does seem kind of possible to me.
Do note I said 'a bit more sensibly', implying it still can get out there. Still it does demonstrate a good deal more fine control tricks and ideas on how to make more use out of a particular ability.
- Location
- Laniakea
The Toaru/Raildex power scale being mentioned is this one. Largely described based on military application of the power and how effective it is at killing lots of people.
There are only 7 people within the universe of A Certain Magical Index who are considered "Level 5".
The one first ever seen (and seen again most often) is Mikoto Misaka, whose power is Railgun (or "electromaster") - so named for her signature technique, where she uses it to fire a metal coin like a railgun. She was popular enough of a character to get her own spinoff series, titled "A Certain Scientific Railgun". The most mentally stable and sane of the lot, despite one of her defining debut moments being accidentally causing a blackout on several city blocks due to a temper tantrum.
The most powerful one is known only as Accelerator, nicknamed after his power. Started as an antagonist, got defeated, started looking for redemption and was popular enough to get a spinoff manga/anime series of his own, titled "A Certain Scientific Accelerator". The less said about his body count, the less it matches his actual body count.
The one which this quest's Micchan is based off is named Misaki Shokuhou and she first appeared in the Railgun spinoff and then later in the main Index series. Her power, Mental Out, lets her read and control human brains en masse, supposedly by manipulating brain fluids. She's nominally Misaka's rival and is the alpha bitch of a huge clique at the same school, which she formed just so she could have an army of bodyguards. Which screams "insecure" like nothing else, but compared to other Level 5s like Accelerator and Meltdowner she comes off looking wholly saint-like, which tells you a lot about them.
Got popular enough to get a spinoff manga starring herself titled "A Certain Scientific Mental Out".
Yeah, you can probably see a pattern forming here.
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- Location
- Venezuela
That there will be 4 more spinoffs in the future?
- Location
- Laniakea
Yeah about that....😅
....that would be 3 actually, arguably 2.
Dark Matter already got his own spinoff, "A Certain Scientific Dark Matter". It came out in 2019, there's only one 1 volume of it. Maybe if Kakine's fan club increases, it'll get more.
Arguably 2 if you count "Toaru Anbu no ITEM" ("A Certain Black Ops ITEM") as Meltdowner's series, since it's about her mercenary squad and she's the leader of it.
Aihana Etsu's face still hasn't been depicted in series yet, he's unlikely to get one until then at least.
On the other hand, I'm surprised Gunha hasn't gotten one yet. Either Kamachi is saving him as some special plot twist (not out of the question, he's meant to be the only one of the 7 who was a "natural born" Esper as opposed to artificially engineered) or it's because he's just too much a typical hot-blooded shonen protagonist and nobody could come up with any ideas to make an interesting story around him.
....that would be 3 actually, arguably 2.
Dark Matter already got his own spinoff, "A Certain Scientific Dark Matter". It came out in 2019, there's only one 1 volume of it. Maybe if Kakine's fan club increases, it'll get more.
Arguably 2 if you count "Toaru Anbu no ITEM" ("A Certain Black Ops ITEM") as Meltdowner's series, since it's about her mercenary squad and she's the leader of it.
Aihana Etsu's face still hasn't been depicted in series yet, he's unlikely to get one until then at least.
On the other hand, I'm surprised Gunha hasn't gotten one yet. Either Kamachi is saving him as some special plot twist (not out of the question, he's meant to be the only one of the 7 who was a "natural born" Esper as opposed to artificially engineered) or it's because he's just too much a typical hot-blooded shonen protagonist and nobody could come up with any ideas to make an interesting story around him.
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Specialization helps, most of the more bullshit only does stuff in/on your skin alone
Eh... it'd have to be perfect in the right way.
I think the only attack charm described as "perfect" in the core book is Accuracy Without Distance. All it does is guarantee that an attack on a valid target will hit. It doesn't guarantee that hitting will do anything, and it doesn't make any targets valid that would otherwise be invalid. It's perfectly accurate, not perfectly anything else. Trying to hit a snowstorm with Accuracy Without Distance would be futile, unless combined with other effects.
An exalt could probably develop a charm that was perfect in the right way to combat a sentient snowstorm, but it'd probably make more sense to start with Spirit-Cutting Attack and All-Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight - Spirit-Cutting Attack to (hopefully) make attacks land and do meaningful damage, and All-Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight to figure out where to aim. (Do you need to hit the clouds? Can you just start punching snowdrifts? Is there some invisible nexus of magic to aim for? All-Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight would be the tool to figure this out.)
Or, for maximum cool factor, you could develop a "punch so hard you change the weather" Martial Arts charm. That'd be completely in line with solar themes, and a very appropriate tool for the job.
Which makes the short, caster-centered range really awkward, especially if Amu gets the shard.
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
I'm not terribly worried about that one. You know how Amu and her friends work, none of which... well, Hikaru has four dots in mental range, because of course he does.
But the usual counters to magic cancellation apply, i.e. opponents can create a non-magic effect from outside the range of the pattern. Or just brainwash an entire church's worth of cultists, and give them guns. Both of which are within Amu's reach right now, let alone...
...anyway. Update is going reasonably well, Amu is learning another power stunt, don't mind me I'm just trying to write an eldritch location. Nero got back to Dublin last night, so I have my sounding block back.
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- Location
- Laniakea
So Amu failed the first roll, but passed the next two. The first failure wasn't a complete botch, just a partial failure, which I'd guess is why she got a "second chance" but with less dice (and then got lucky enough to pass with a critical success).
Given what we saw from the last time she rolled Overgrowth vs Integrity during the training with Dreamwalking and her going crazy in the dream world, my guess is that she half-lost her mind doing whatever it is she tried, but had enough lucidity to notice when her other party members got alarmed at her behavior, tried to reassert control and then succeeded on the second roll.
If that had also failed, she'd probably have ended up spending the rest of the time under a personality shift throughout the duration of her "power stunt". As for what that power stunt is, my guess is it's most likely a Chara-Transformation of some kind that isn't with her usual Charas - since the first time that term "power stunt" was ever used in this quest, it was in relation to Chara Transforms.
Even so, said "power stunt" itself would probably have fizzled out in short order if the Overgrowth vs World roll had failed. I'm assuming that roll was necessary to decide how quickly base physics (or maybe the physics of Yui's fog dimension) would have overridden whatever she attempted to do and a failure would have had it last less than a whole update, much less a whole scene.
The pertinent question of course, is why the hell exactly Amu needs to be rolling for a "power stunt" in the first place.
The sole thing we voted for during the last update was to spill about Kana. That really shouldn't need any dice rolls, much less a Chara Transformation. The only other thing I can guess is that the "proceed upwards one floor at a time" part of the vote from Chapter 2.5 is being conducted into the current update and Amu had to fight her way through something that required an unorthodox stunt to deal with.
Stunt itself could be anything from borrowing Iru and Eru both at the same time (unlikely, Utau herself would probably be using one or the other), spontaneously laying and hatching a fifth Chara (unlikely, seems like too big an event for a single update), trying to Transform using Miki despite her being Big Miki, manifesting a Persona (possibly by channeling it through her Charas), etc.
The fact it happened without an interrupt means there's an element of it being involuntary, which makes me lean towards it being a Persona manifestation - especially if this is happening in some "eldritch location", meaning likely deep within Yui's cognitive/dream domain. Except that since Amu has Charas, her manifesting a Persona happens in a wonky way for her.
Given what we saw from the last time she rolled Overgrowth vs Integrity during the training with Dreamwalking and her going crazy in the dream world, my guess is that she half-lost her mind doing whatever it is she tried, but had enough lucidity to notice when her other party members got alarmed at her behavior, tried to reassert control and then succeeded on the second roll.
If that had also failed, she'd probably have ended up spending the rest of the time under a personality shift throughout the duration of her "power stunt". As for what that power stunt is, my guess is it's most likely a Chara-Transformation of some kind that isn't with her usual Charas - since the first time that term "power stunt" was ever used in this quest, it was in relation to Chara Transforms.
Even so, said "power stunt" itself would probably have fizzled out in short order if the Overgrowth vs World roll had failed. I'm assuming that roll was necessary to decide how quickly base physics (or maybe the physics of Yui's fog dimension) would have overridden whatever she attempted to do and a failure would have had it last less than a whole update, much less a whole scene.
The pertinent question of course, is why the hell exactly Amu needs to be rolling for a "power stunt" in the first place.
The sole thing we voted for during the last update was to spill about Kana. That really shouldn't need any dice rolls, much less a Chara Transformation. The only other thing I can guess is that the "proceed upwards one floor at a time" part of the vote from Chapter 2.5 is being conducted into the current update and Amu had to fight her way through something that required an unorthodox stunt to deal with.
Stunt itself could be anything from borrowing Iru and Eru both at the same time (unlikely, Utau herself would probably be using one or the other), spontaneously laying and hatching a fifth Chara (unlikely, seems like too big an event for a single update), trying to Transform using Miki despite her being Big Miki, manifesting a Persona (possibly by channeling it through her Charas), etc.
The fact it happened without an interrupt means there's an element of it being involuntary, which makes me lean towards it being a Persona manifestation - especially if this is happening in some "eldritch location", meaning likely deep within Yui's cognitive/dream domain. Except that since Amu has Charas, her manifesting a Persona happens in a wonky way for her.
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...are you saying she could manifest psi effects outside the field, even while she's inside the field?
We are rolling a lot more dice in this quest than I expected, and getting a lot fewer opportunities to stunt the rolls than I expected, too.
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Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
Potentially yes, if she figures it out.
Overgrowth rolls will continue until one of them fails or Amu gets tutoring. Can't stunt something you don't understand.
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It's not just the Overgrowth rolls, but for Overgrowth... didn't we already fail one, back with Dreamwalking training? And we just failed another. Do the rolls stop now, or do we have to fail harder?
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
They're a little backwards, when they're rolled against integrity. If the roll fails then nothing unusual happens.
In this case something unusual did happen, so they might, depending on subsequent events.
- Location
- Laniakea
....Right, now that you mention it and I check back, the Overgrowth vs Integrity roll from before actually succeeded with 3 successes. It was the Dreamwalking vs Integrity roll that failed.
And we got told the Overgrowth roll preceded all the other 3 rolls, despite having been rolled last. Which implies the other 3 rolls wouldn't even have happened if it failed. IIRC, it was confirmed that Dream-drunk Amu happened as a result of the failed Dreamwalking v Integrity roll, not Overgrowth. But given that the Dreamwalking roll wouldn't have happened if the Overgrowth v Integrity roll failed, it seems it was actually still a result of Overgrowth. And that when Overgrowth won its roll, it made a chance that something would happen during training. It wasn't really that the training stats that were being rolled against Integrity, just whether each training session would produce an event (and only Dreamwalking turned up with an event because of the failure).
......Here, I see more dice rolls got added for Utau. A World roll, then an Integrity roll. She passed the World roll too, but failed the Integrity roll, so nothing happened to her.
Since Overgrowth rolls only stop once they fail (rather than succeed) I'm guessing that like before, these rolls were listed in reverse. The World rolls happened first, then as many Integrity rolls as possible until failure. Utau failed right away, but Amu first got a critical success and then another roll that she failed.
So it's the "success" roll that would make her act abnormally, before regaining control.
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We got told that the roll scheme was "upside-down", and that "I'll fix that before the next one". We also got told that the failure was Integrity vs. Integrity, somehow, despite the effects manifesting during Dreamwalking training:
In another post, we got told that "'passing' means nothing exceptional happens", which is the opposite of the "If the roll fails then nothing unusual happens." statement from Baughn's latest post, so I think that might have been the part Baughn considered "upside-down", rather than the roll order:
The available info is confusing and limited enough that I'm mostly just waiting for more data points, though.
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Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
To be honest, at this point I mostly just want an excuse to give you the full set of rules. I think that'll be better for everyone involved.
Oh, right. Let's just officially close this one.
Hmm... well, it's going to be a long time before we have enough information to know why this interaction would work that way, but...
Chaos-Repelling Pattern just makes the local area function according to the laws of Creation. It doesn't force anything to obey those laws, if they're capable of ignoring such things. ("Laws" is probably too strong a word.) Shaping effects, which explicitly bypass the laws of Creation, can still work in areas that function according to the laws of Creation.
We don't know how psionics work, but they already seem to bypass the laws of Kagutsuchi. It's possible that a good enough psion with enough experience with Chaos-Repelling Pattern could bypass the laws of Creation, too.
Or, of course, Amu could develop a more selective Chaos-Repelling Pattern upgrade.
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