Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Yog · Jan 9, 2024

BronzeTongue said:
That doesn't make sense. All the outsider focused factions we've spoke to on this are pretty sure the thing goes Outside. There's no such thing as an Abyssal vault either; they're in with the solars.

If it was already outside then nemesis has no need to come in this way to get at it, and if it was the full jade vault somehow arranged so you could only get it from this angle the thing wouldn't have been an unguarded portal for outsiders to sneak through and scare those old shaman.

My bet is that it opens into the domain of something like a Malfean Neverborn. Old enough to remember the exalted, and want to take advantage of an eventual return, but not a loose shard itself.

Well, we can reasonably guess that at least one lunar exaltation was not in the Black Vault, so an abyssal exaltation being trapped outside also makes sense to me.

It's also possible that not all Outside is accessible from all other Outside.

Still, whether this is an Abyssal about to be unleashed, or a deadly curse about to devastate the city, we need to know, and, given the timeframes involved, we need to know now, as it's quite possible we might need to call backup, or rapidly burn more foci to stop it from happening, or do other stuff.

Fouredged Sword · Jan 9, 2024

Yog said:
Well, we can reasonably guess that at least one lunar exaltation was not in the Black Vault, so an abyssal exaltation being trapped outside also makes sense to me.

It's also possible that not all Outside is accessible from all other Outside.

Still, whether this is an Abyssal about to be unleashed, or a deadly curse about to devastate the city, we need to know, and, given the timeframes involved, we need to know now, as it's quite possible we might need to call backup, or rapidly burn more foci to stop it from happening, or do other stuff.

We are in Vegas. If we have not done at least ONE Ocean's 11 style heist by the end of this story arc something has gone horribly wrong.

LightLan · Jan 9, 2024

Fouredged Sword said:
We are in Vegas. If we have not done at least ONE Ocean's 11 style heist by the end of this story arc something has gone horribly wrong.

Heist happens when Mab calls Harry's favor in to make him help Nick rob Hades

Anaja · Jan 9, 2024

We know that not all the exaltations were sealed away together in one vault. Ours, at the very least, was being held someone separate from the others. Who knows how many others are located in places where they could get released on their own.

Goldfish · Jan 9, 2024

[X] The Pallbearers of Ra Descending to have a public phone number, warn them that they have a Black Court vampire trying to steal one of their holy relics

uju32 · Jan 9, 2024

BronzeTongue said:
That's just a difference in currency; if he's asking for something in reroof his services that he cares about continuing to get the effect is the same.

Not at all.
If you read the Charon stat block, he doesnt ask for anything to use the canals. Thats entirely free.
What deals people strike with him are entirely separate, sporadic, and often at his discretion.

That does not the behavior of someone who is getting income from this.
And is more along the lines of someone establishing a presence operation where they show the flag and ensure they are seen.
In my opinion at least.

BronzeTongue said:
It seems pretty clear that the room was rented from Charon, you're calling it into question without a lot to go on. Even if you're right it's still connected to his space. Letting someone hide behind your territory for a price - the secrets Cobbler knows - isn't significantly different from renting them space in it.

Disagree.
All thats clear is that there was a convenient Way from the Canals to wherever that NeverNever bubble is.
Not that it belongs to Charon.

BronzeTongue said:
Why? He protects this place and we attacked it. He's certainly not obligated to leave us alone.

His writeup makes it clear that he's around even when you dont see him, and that violators get hit as soon as they start shit.
We didnt get hit.
Ergo we didnt break the rules.

BronzeTongue said:
If Mac allowed you to pay for access to the nevernever in his place so you could effectively be protected by the neutral space without being subject to it he'd be doing the same thing. Not coming up isn't the same as not being present either. Practically speaking the nevernever is clearly actively being used here.

This is more along the lines of Mac allowing you to use his bar's phone.
Or to use his private door out into the back alley.

Yog said:
We should at least check what kind of agreement with Charon he has. For all we know, it only covers him for protection while under water. Remember - he himself committed a murder somewhere nearby, in the supposedly neutral territory. So, it might well be that he's not protected right now at all, and is banking on us not realizing this.

You are misremembering.
He explicitly committed the murder of Ambrosio outside of the Canals. The body was found staked outside them.
If the victim had made it to the Canals, he'd have been safe. He didnt.

@DragonParadox
QUESTION
We were supposed to use Hellscry Chakra + Occult Excellency on the vampire as he walked away.
What happened?

DragonParadox · Jan 9, 2024

uju32 said:
@DragonParadox
QUESTION
We were supposed to use Hellscry Chakra + Occult Excellency on the vampire as he walked away.
What happened?

Oh I thought that was a distinct vote, I was kind of out of it yesterday. One moment while I fix things.

Edit: This paragraph has been added, it's a bit vague, but Molly is literally doing color theory interpretation on a kind of being she has never used this charm before. Even with 10+ Successes it is not going to come out clear as day:

With one last look over your shoulder you look, into the thing wearing dead skin, as deep and black as hell is wide, yet textured with the imprints of humanity, things nameless and forgotten, memories raw and bleeding-red all mixed together. Where that all consuming spite against life touches an all too human malice an axis of purpose it made and spins and spins... It, he, it's hard to tell, wants something with a jealous greed and darker purpose both, as though something is driving him on.

uju32 · Jan 9, 2024

DragonParadox said:
Oh I thought that was a distinct vote, I was kind of out of it yesterday. One moment while I fix things.

Edit: This paragraph has been added, it's a bit vague, but Molly is literally doing color theory interpretation on a kind of being she has never used this charm before. Even with 10+ Successes it is not going to come out clear as day:

With one last look over your shoulder you look, into the thing wearing dead skin, as deep and black as hell is wide, yet textured with the imprints of humanity, things nameless and forgotten, memories raw and bleeding-red all mixed together. Where that all consuming spite against life touches an all too human malice an axis of purpose it made and spins and spins... It, he, it's hard to tell, wants something with a jealous greed and darker purpose both, as though something is driving him on.

Fair enough.

Does he remind her of a sorcerer/ necromancer?
Someone who works magic, instead of is magic?
I am trying to figure out where the cards come into things. And the ghost summoning.

uju32 · Jan 9, 2024

DragonParadox said:
Debrief for the Road
12th of January 2007 A.D.

COMMENTARY
Ok, no overt signs of possession or Domination by an outside force. Whatever else Cobbler is doing, its of his own free will.
Reading a person's aura should provide enough information to tell if they are a mage or not, but apparently Molly is still fumbling at this.

Loling at Tiffany the car snob. At least that didnt change across her transfiguration.
Must be a tight squeeze to fit six big adult people(well, five big adult people and Lydia

) into that thing, counting Molly's party + Mayeda + Mutt. Lydia should have just summoned her SUV from home.

Hey look ma, we're famous!
Of course Mayeda is still White Court, and our involvement in the White Court purge would have gotten around fast.
It still says something when Molly is more recognizable on sight than the guy who started the Vampire War.

Cobbler is obsessed with genuine old Egyptian shit.
That means that the card reading we saw is legit; in occultism, such prominent figures as Aleister Crowley and Ettaile ascribe the origins of the tarot to Egypt, even though its not true IRL. We probably want to loot his stash after killing him.

Withered like an old prune, and wears tweed? At least a hundred years old?
The high priest of that Egyptian cult is likely a Mummy, or is a high servant of a Mummy. Which would explain why even a hundred plus year old graverobbing Egyptophile vampire might not want him to notice him.

Doesnt mean he's necessarily a good guy; Bane-Mummies were a thing IIRC. But we want to check.

Apocalyptic vampire prophecies, huh.
Those sound like Final Nights prophecies. And Cobbler is working to a deadline.
That suggests he knows what happened to the Dragon, which explains his seeming arrogance.

The info dump from Mayeda should trigger Essence regen for this scene, shouldnt it?
If nothing else, the hints of that vampire prophecy should count as a secret of the supernatural world, even if the sleeping with Egyptian artifacts does not.

We have explicit confirmation that the Reds are incommunicado.
Which suggests very strongly that the Dragon is dead or incapacitated; they wouldnt be abandoning major operations to turtle up in caves otherwise.

DragonParadox said:
Rolls
Hellscry on Cobbler
Getting as much info as you can out of Mayeda... sings like a canary
Phrase sounds spooky? Yes for Molly.... and Lydia (That is a Divine Attribute for her so 1s don't count)
Harry doing his job

10 successes on Hellscrying Cobbler. We should be able to read the tags on his metaphysical underwear.

Yog said:
The probability of Sin Eater guarding an Abyssal Exaltation vault (of Dusk caste) and Sandra being here to retrieve it so Nemesis (or other Outsider forces) have their own exalt is rising. Dramatically rising.

That makes zero sense with everything we have been told so far.

This is either an original prophecy, or a World of Darkness prophecy.
Specifically one of those that were linked to the Time of Judgement storyline. Either the Apocalypse one from Werewolf, the Gehenna prophecy line from Vampire, or given this fellows obsession with Egyptian shit, the Mummy line.

That prophecy makes me suspect there could be something similar to an Antediluvian imprisoned here.

If that cult's head is not Nephandi, he is either a Mummy, or a Mummy's senior servitor
Which would explain both why he appears to be more than a hundred years old, and the vampire being pretty clearly afraid of a direct confrontation with him.

Yog · Jan 9, 2024

uju32 said:
That makes zero sense with everything we have been told so far.

This is either an original prophecy, or a World of Darkness prophecy.
Specifically one of those that were linked to the Time of Judgement storyline. Either the Apocalypse one from Werewolf, the Gehenna prophecy line from Vampire, or given this fellows obsession with Egyptian shit, the Mummy line.

That prophecy makes me suspect there could be something similar to an Antediluvian imprisoned here.

If that cult's head is not Nephandi, he is either a Mummy, or a Mummy's senior servitor
Which would explain both why he appears to be more than a hundred years old, and the vampire being pretty clearly afraid of a direct confrontation with him.

We don't know if there's any prophecy, actually. We know he's working under a deadline where he thinks a "Final Dusk" will descend upon Las Vegas soon, and will make it impossible to pull off what he wishes, likely because it would be too dangerous to operate in the area. But we also know that Black Court are Neverborn-made, so it's possible they get some sort of intelligence (possibly in the form of dreams / visions) from their maker. And while Nemesis is a different faction of Outsiders (the Raksha faction as opposed to Neverborn faction), they might still have communicated. To me the thing with the least amount of assumptions is:
1) The presence of Sandra and cult of Ra Descending in Las Vegas are connected. Either Sandra came to Las Vegas because of them, or they because of her. As allies or as enemies is a question. As a hopeful wild guess, cult of Ra Descending are a support organization / cover for Egyptian Knights of the Cross equivalent (possibly sponsored by ([un]dead) Sol Invictus). The following sub-scenarios are possible in my mind:
2) Blampire is here because of the cult, and knows something about Sandra through whatever metaphorical connection to Outside he has

In any case, learning what the hell the Final Dusk is, is of critical importance in my opinion.

DragonParadox · Jan 9, 2024

uju32 said:
Fair enough.

Does he remind her of a sorcerer/ necromancer?
Someone who works magic, instead of is magic?
I am trying to figure out where the cards come into things. And the ghost summoning.

He does not look like he is doing magic at the moment, though from how active his aura is he is probably not entirely a stranger to sorcery. He mostly just looks obsessed and afraid, though that last bit may be from the encounter.

BronzeTongue · Jan 9, 2024

uju32 said:
Not at all.
If you read the Charon stat block, he doesnt ask for anything to use the canals. Thats entirely free.
What deals people strike with him are entirely separate, sporadic, and often at his discretion.

That does not the behavior of someone who is getting income from this.
And is more along the lines of someone establishing a presence operation where they show the flag and ensure they are seen.
In my opinion at least

Does McDonald's charge you to walk in the door? It's one part store front and one part influence game. Making it free to show up encourages making deals with him and gives influence over the community.

He's not providing a service like this to be nice, and his profit being in something other than USD doesn't change what's going on.

uju32 said:
Disagree.
All thats clear is that there was a convenient Way from the Canals to wherever that NeverNever bubble is.
Not that it belongs to Charon.

You're suggesting he's a powerful god we should be afraid of, but also that he doesn't control the nevernever in his own place of business? Or that he didn't notice a blampire hiding under his deck like an undead raccoon?

Cobbler basically point blank told us he does business with Charon, and there's also this:

DragonParadox said:
Though Lydia exerts no power upon them the departed have a great deal to say to her about these canals 'the Ferryman's waters,', about themselves and how they had come here, seeking sanctuary from the predators that prowl also on the other side of the veil. They speak of the recent deaths: Sergeant Stella Andrews, he'd seen too much and so the men in stripped suits forced to take one last drink whiskey and broken glass, a lost dreamer burned in his sanctum the fumes of his pyre slowly seeping though a thousand grates, 'someone must be cooking pork' said passersby who caught a whiff. You hear of a promising young student at the university, Patricia Ruiz-Borges, killed not with blades but needles the better to burry her reputation too. Finally, hesitantly they speak of the one you had come seeking, 'the hollow man', the risen-thing, there's spite and fear in the voices of the dead. It had paid for not just secrets but sanctuary, though not with its own coin, it was growing impatient and churning and freezing the ether with its anger.

Cobbler paid Charon for ongoing sanctuary and we found him in a well developed nevernever fortress directly connected to Charon's waters. How much more do you want as evidence here?

Even if you are right the guy was paid to defend against stuff like this.

uju32 said:
His writeup makes it clear that he's around even when you dont see him, and that violators get hit as soon as they start shit.
We didnt get hit.
Ergo we didnt break the rules.

It was less than 30 seconds end to end, and Cobbler's threat wasn't that killing him would get us punched in the face. It was that Charon would make sure we got nothing else done while here, either because of all his friends of with some sort of curse depending on how you read it. Possibly both.

Even if he was certain he could win a fight with us it'd be messy, and as you often point out yourself immortals can be patient.

uju32 said:
This is more along the lines of Mac allowing you to use his bar's phone.
Or to use his private door out into the back alley.

If you used it to call in hits against someone until they came to the parking lot, then dragged them through the room to his dumpster maybe.

BronzeTongue · Jan 9, 2024

Degorium said:
It is kind of implied by exalted versus World of Darkness the book that the Abyssal exultations are dormant in Oblivion the pit and become active again once the other shards are released so functionally there is no Vault for the abyssals but they're dormant until the solars come back and a solar derivative just came back a couple months ago if they can crack open a pit that leads to the Malfean Neverborn in they can get at exaltation using a suicide ritual of a proper vessel for it. I question if Sandra is a proper vessel but maybe they got someone else in mind it doesn't particularly matter.

Not really:

the aByssal exalted
There came a day, perhaps the darkest day of the Age of Legends, when 100 of its greatest heroes fell into darkness and were forever transformed by the dead gods who dwelled there in silence and spite. They became death's bleak riders, journeying forth from the Under- world to perform the great and terrible works of the grave. When the Age of Legends thrashed and bled through its final days, theirs were the gauntleted fists that gripped Creation's hair and sought to draw a knife across its throat. They failed, in the end: though they grievously wounded the world, it limped on into a new and lesser epoch, and the deathknights were imprisoned where they could never again threaten the living.
Or at least, they should have been. Now the Black Vault is open and the great heroes of myth have returned... and the slayers of men and nations along with them.

Page 26

The four
horSeMen riDe: The
aBySSal exalTeD
Perhaps this is why the Black Vault was sealed and its guardians told never to allow it to be opened.
The Abyssal Exalted did not find a tunnel of light or roaring flames waiting for them as they died. No choir of angels. No foggy purgatory. Not even the timeless antici- pation of bodily resurrection on judgment day. Instead, there was pain, and cold, and a voiceless voice making a terrible offer: reach out, embrace the grave, and live. In the Dark Medieval, it is not merely a test of courage, but of faith. Did the Abyssal dare trust in her reward beyond this final temptation? Or would she return to the world?
She returned. Whatever her reason, she returned. Perhaps she feared Hell awaited her. Perhaps she did not, in the ultimate extreme, trust in promises of Heaven

Page 413

That sticks them in the vault pretty directly.

Yog said:
Well, we can reasonably guess that at least one lunar exaltation was not in the Black Vault, so an abyssal exaltation being trapped outside also makes sense to me.

It's also possible that not all Outside is accessible from all other Outside.

Still, whether this is an Abyssal about to be unleashed, or a deadly curse about to devastate the city, we need to know, and, given the timeframes involved, we need to know now, as it's quite possible we might need to call backup, or rapidly burn more foci to stop it from happening, or do other stuff.

What's going on with that isn't totally clear, but there's only so many things you can let out of the vault before it starts to get silly. Special circumstances getting an exaltation released and immediately caught again is one thing, if they're randomly carving holes into the outside where everyone can see them you have to start asking why they all aren't back already.

Yog · Jan 9, 2024

BronzeTongue said:
What's going on with that isn't totally clear, but there's only so many things you can let out of the vault before it starts to get silly. Special circumstances getting an exaltation released and immediately caught again is one thing, if they're randomly carving holes into the outside where everyone can see them you have to start asking why they all aren't back already.

Whatever it is, we need to know.

BronzeTongue · Jan 9, 2024

Iron Roby said:
3) I'm generally opposed to "X is Y, and no talking or negotiating with Y ever, kill all Y on sight regardless of context!" logic. We have a Red Court vamp, who has managed to make themselves into a constructive agent of a symbiotic Power. Is it truly so unbelievable a Black Court one might have accomplished something similar with that "Charon"?

Butcher goes out of his way to be ambitious about if something is "default" evil, but this is what he has to say on blampires:

Are individual BC vamps capable of feeling affection fo those they cared about in life and could they hold back from eating them if they really tried? maybe go to the blood bank instead? i know vamps as a whole dont do this but actions of individuals fron the other courts like thomas not killing justine in BR and susan dying for maggie seen to imply its not all black and white.
Oh, it's possible a BC vamp could feel something toward those it knew in life, but those feelings wouldn't really motivate it toward a given behavior. If it's hungry, it feeds, and if it happens to be eating its own child from life, it might think 'Ah, I recognize that one. Interesting. This should probably be upsetting me, but it tastes so /good/…'
If the blampire had a rational, cynically self-centered /reason/ to keep someone alive though, it certainly would, and it is entirely possible that some blampires have enough of a sense of enlightened self-interest to preserve a few mortals that have proven useful. Until they don't.

Black Court Vamps are a different story. They're actually tainted by something hideous and unworldly. They are driven to kill to survive. They don't really have a lot of choice about it. They enjoy being what they are, and doing what they do. They can be sad that they don't have someone who loves them, or upset that the world has passed them by and has changed on them, but at the end of the day, they're basically black-hearts who occasionally pull out a few of the tattered remains of their humanity, fail to fit back into them like they used to, and get maudlin about their glory days when they could watch the sun rise.

How are Black Court Master Vampires made/elevated? Elders?
Mainly by growing more powerful by feeding on more lives. The more you kill, the stronger you are, as a Black Court vamp. Also by demonstrating that you can beat the stuffing out of your rivals. They're very much a Darwinian society of might-makes-right.
But most of the old ones worked out that you can't just go on killing sprees to farm XP. You're helpless a large portion of every day, and the food will come find you and end you. So they wait for good opportunities for that kind of thing. Wars, famines, and plagues are awesome for leveling up.

And also what is Drakul a scion of?
Drakul wasn't a scion of anything! He was something entirely unhuman that got trapped in human form. Dracula was his half-human child, who naturally had enormous paternal issues, and wound up creating himself as the first Black Court Vampire in an effort to win his father's approval.
It didn't work out so well.

They're more spiritually powered bio weapons engineered to be awful by an immortal man-child seeking Daddy's attention.

The other two types are more natural species, they exist like that because spiritual biology is a bitch. For black court vampires monstrosity isn't incidental to their existence, it's the point.

Generally I agree with you, but I wouldn't hold my breath for Drizzt Do'Blampire.

DragonParadox · Jan 9, 2024

Good night guys.

Alratan · Jan 9, 2024

If this is an Abyssal Exaltation or could be one that was stuck in a Monstrance of Celestial Portion when the last cycle ended so wasn't imprisoned in the Black Vault with the rest.

uju32 · Jan 9, 2024

Goldfish said:
[X] The Pallbearers of Ra Descending to have a public phone number, warn them that they have a Black Court vampire trying to steal one of their holy relics

First principles.
IC Molly wouldnt risk the possibility of dead civilians.

VOTE
[X] The Pallbearers of Ra Descending to have a public phone number, warn them that they have a Black Court vampire trying to steal one of their holy relics

Odysseus2099 · Jan 9, 2024

BronzeTongue said:
What's going on with that isn't totally clear, but there's only so many things you can let out of the vault before it starts to get silly. Special circumstances getting an exaltation released and immediately caught again is one thing, if they're randomly carving holes into the outside where everyone can see them you have to start asking why they all aren't back already.

You're assuming there ever was a Black Vault, rather than the Exaltations being individually wrapped up and imprisoned to avoid them all being released at once. This isn't actually Exalted vs World of Darkness, it just takes elements of it.

TheGrape · Jan 9, 2024

[X] The Pallbearers of Ra Descending to have a public phone number, warn them that they have a Black Court vampire trying to steal one of their holy relics

BoredMan · Jan 9, 2024

Im surprised more people aren't voting to ask about the "Final Dusk".

Degorium · Jan 9, 2024

[X] Yog

Iron Roby · Jan 9, 2024

[X] Yog

I wouldn't have normally voted to warn those, who could be bad guys themselves, but as @uju32 pointed out, there is a risk for civilian casualties, and it's kinda our responsibility this vamp still walks.

BronzeTongue said:
They're more spiritually powered bio weapons engineered to be awful by an immortal man-child seeking Daddy's attention.

The other two types are more natural species, they exist like that because spiritual biology is a bitch. For black court vampires monstrosity isn't incidental to their existence, it's the point.

Generally I agree with you, but I wouldn't hold my breath for Drizzt Do'Blampire.

Dracula (re)created *himself* as the first Black Court vampire, to become closer to being something his dad was, so I doubt he implemented directives and commands to act evil into his own new form of existence. Nobody likes limiting their free will, even if it's in a way to make you act like you probably would have anyway.

The inherent sociopathy and enjoyment from predation/feeding are more likely the natural results of the kind of very dark mojo something like the existence and propagation of a blampire requires.

And once something is sapient and at least capable of something like enlightened self-interest, then it could lead to surprising places. Granted, any potential "redemption" of a blampire would probably require enough magical surgery/transformations to qualify as a species change.

Anaja · Jan 9, 2024

[X] The Pallbearers of Ra Descending to have a public phone number, warn them that they have a Black Court vampire trying to steal one of their holy relics

BronzeTongue · Jan 10, 2024

Iron Roby said:
Dracula (re)created *himself* as the first Black Court vampire, to become closer to being something his dad was, so I doubt he implemented directives and commands to act evil into his own new form of existence. Nobody likes limiting their free will, even if it's in a way to make you act like you probably would have anyway.

They're supposed to be soldiers in an army, and he added all sorts of things that basically amount to the eldest blamp getting to boss around his spawn. His will wouldn't exactly be limited. Even then I wouldn't put bad decisions past diabolic daddy issues over there; he min-maxed his army into hyper vulnerable to a hilarious range of things.

Also, the darkhallow would similarly make a mantle perfectly fit to the necromancer who formed it at the time of casting. Cowl and the others knew this and were trying anyway. So this isn't even the first time Butcher would have shown us characters making this sort of decision.

Edit:

Odysseus2099 said:
You're assuming there ever was a Black Vault, rather than the Exaltations being individually wrapped up and imprisoned to avoid them all being released at once. This isn't actually Exalted vs World of Darkness, it just takes elements of it.

The conceit is that we're after the age of legends. The Black Vault not being a thing is possible, but about on the same level of change as not having a dragonblooded rebellion in the first place.

There's exactly equal support for the idea that the other exalted shards are all locked out of reality somewhere it's impossible to ever get at them.

Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Recent threadmarks

Recent threadmarks

Recent threadmarks

Recent threadmarks

Recent threadmarks

Yog

Fouredged Sword

LightLan

Anaja

Goldfish

Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination

uju32

DragonParadox

uju32

uju32

Yog

DragonParadox

BronzeTongue

BronzeTongue

Yog

BronzeTongue

DragonParadox

Alratan

uju32

Odysseus2099

TheGrape

BoredMan

Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority

Degorium

Iron Roby

Anaja

BronzeTongue

Recent threadmarks

Recent threadmarks

Recent threadmarks

Recent threadmarks

Recent threadmarks