Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[X] Agree to deal with the situation personally, but make the bargain conditional upon voluntary successful completion. Maeve will owe you nothing, if you don't deliver, but you also have no obligation to deliver, and owe her nothing if you don't. (Costs 1 AP next month)
For a centuries old figure in Winter, thats rather embarassing. And suggests she hasnt really been doing all that much social manipulation in her centuries of office. Not much subtlety in that one.
Between chronically neglecting her duties and whatever hefty DC reducer she has as Winter lady for dealing with subjects of Winter, I'm not surprised her social muscles are underdeveloped.
 
the dude's power is enough to keep Winter out.
That's....alarming.
Admittedly, Vegas is more Summer Court and Wyldfae territory IIRC, but still.
Not only Winter. He supposedly has enough power to play at more or less independent politics within the Red Court too. Because main Red political direction is to use or work with at least some minor outsiders. Even if they try to cover it up. So Dragon, aka Dracul, either playing a very long game of double agent or doesn't give much of a shit about Red King and his plans.
 
It sounds more like the sort of hostage game Winter has gotten accused of previously in the thread. Winter could go in and take what they want, but it'd be expensive and probably end with a new front they don't want to manage themselves.

What's curious about this is that the vamp is willing to play chicken. I wonder if he knows that Sandra is connected to Nemesis in the first place, because Winter's reason not to pay the price goes away if they think the gate is going to open anyway and they can't be sure that the reason she's being hunted is because of something she did instead of something she's doing.

If he was aware I'd have thought the guy would straight have her killed to avoid the headache.
We know that Red Court is in some way in bed with Outsiders. The question is how loyal Dragon is to his sin eater landlord. We might want to talk to Broken Seeker a bit before heading in.
 
[X] Agree to Maeve's terms (Costs 1 AP next month)

This is a fair investment in the name of a worthy crusade that we are already invested in. Winter is... less than a true ally but more than an ally of convenience. We wish them well in their eternal war against this enemy and we are more than willing to shed blood in its name.
Molly gets a sense that Maeve is just bad at her job, almost remarkably so. There's a part of her, and it might be the same part that found Broken Seeker a little charming that wants to help the Winter Lady break out of her shell. :grin:
On the one hand, it does us well to see a job done well. One done poorly has blowback for everyone. But inability also is fertile soil for dependence and for another to become dependent on you gives you subtle power over them whether or not favors are ever tallied. A man might bare steel against something good and yet would hesitate against something necessary.

We will, however, have to put in a little bit of effort into making sure we aren't part of it being poorly done.
 
Last edited:
She seems to have neglected her duties, including self-improvement (or at least keeping her skills sharp) for decades at least, possibly longer.
People get rusty, even immortal people.
Those skills dont decay for magical beings as far as I know.
It seems more like she didnt acquire them at all in the first place.

Or maybe Nemesis damaged them during the period of its possession so she'd have to lean more on it in particular scenarios.
Its not like we're a doctor.
Whoever? Sin Eater is Dragon's master is what I got. Dragon serves as cup bearer to it, managing sin generation, and probably running some rituals to distill said sins into something tangible:
The Sin-Eater's power/authority as wielded by the Dragon is enough to keep Winter out.
Thats a significant amount of occult mojo, even if it is geographically limited to the city of Las Vegas. And we dont know what the Sin-Eater was originally, or what it currently is after decades of sitting in a major city while slurping down occult power.
I'm not sure Winter wants to contest their claim very much, as it would only make more work for Winter. And we are quite a bit more powerful than we were back then. We do need to have a viable alternative to the current set up beforehand.
1)Want to contest their claim? No. But Maeve straight up says they cant.
Its like the US saying they dont have the military capacity to invade a Pacific island.

2)Put that on the to-do list.
I doubt we can do anything about it yet; we dont even have Essence-Dissecting Stare yet, which is the charm that you need to be able see shit like Dragon Nests and major occult features in the landscape.

And frankly, if it was amenable to fixes, I suspect that the wizards and shamans who summoned a sin-eater to guard the place would have done something like that instead.
 
1)Want to contest their claim? No. But Maeve straight up says they cant.
Its like the US saying they dont have the military capacity to invade a Pacific island.
North Korea is a far better example, I feel. Or Afghanistan. USA (Winter) could invade, but it's far more trouble that it's worth, and would only make the situation worse.
 
Those skills dont decay for magical beings as far as I know.
It seems more like she didnt acquire them at all in the first place.
The Ladies are still the most human-ish of the greater Fey.
Maybe their skills can decay.

Like, spirit of knowledge would obviously never loose knowledge even if he spends a hundred years in a bottle, but things closer to humanity should propably still get rusty in things they don't do much over years.
 
Molly gets a sense that Maeve is just bad at her job, almost remarkably so. There's a part of her, and it might be the same part that found Broken Seeker a little charming that wants to help the Winter Lady break out of her shell. :grin:
Lol.
I find the idea of Molly mentoring the Winter Lady to be more than a little hilarious.
Well worth doing, though; she's arguably more important than Emma-O.

It sounds more like the sort of hostage game Winter has gotten accused of previously in the thread. Winter could go in and take what they want, but it'd be expensive and probably end with a new front they don't want to manage themselves.

What's curious about this is that the vamp is willing to play chicken. I wonder if he knows that Sandra is connected to Nemesis in the first place, because Winter's reason not to pay the price goes away if they think the gate is going to open anyway and they can't be sure that the reason she's being hunted is because of something she did instead of something she's doing.

If he was aware I'd have thought the guy would straight have her killed to avoid the headache.
Could be.

The lack of even a diplomatic response altogether sounds more like there are.....Complications(TM) to her presence.
If the Vampire is characterized as he was in DFRPG, he's pretty much devoted to the role of keeping Las Vegas alive and prosperous in the service of his boss. Im not even sure he drinks blood; the job provides enough mojo.

And it doesnt escape me that the Way that Gorfels used to come to Illnois, the one that opens near Old Man Mathews house?
Is from Nevada.
The county jailhouse looks... like you would expect an abandoned jailhouse dating back more than a hundred years to look, which is to say grunge creepy, between the grey walls, the patched up roof and the crooked storm-drain. If that place isn't haunted you I'm a Taylor Swift fan.

"From where came the wizard Gorfel who passed this way on the seventh of the month?"

You do not get anything like the long conversation you got on the matter of soulgazes, just a flash of a dark grey peak above scrub-land that stretches beside a glittering city, a glimpse and a name. "Clippy search Frenchman's Mountain, Nevada please."

The answer is as instantaneous as it is through: "The peak lies on a north to north-northeast trending ridge about 2000 feet above the nearby valleys. Sunrise Mountain lies 3.6 miles (5.8 km) to the northeast adjacent to Nellis Air Force Base. The north end of the McCullough Range about 12 miles (19 km) to the south has a parallel trend. The River Mountains lie to the southeast..."
Frenchman's Mountain is only 12 miles from the center of Vegas, and overlooks the city.
I have my doubts about it being a coincidence that Sandra appears to have fled to a city that our first villain used as, at a minimum, a waypoint when he was coming to Chicago.
Not only Winter. He supposedly has enough power to play at more or less independent politics within the Red Court too. Because main Red political direction is to use or work with at least some minor outsiders. Even if they try to cover it up. So Dragon, aka Dracul, either playing a very long game of double agent or doesn't give much of a shit about Red King and his plans.
Not really.
If the QM is drawing on the original DFRPG scenario, his allegiance is to Vegas and the spirit underneath it.

We know that Red Court is in some way in bed with Outsiders. The question is how loyal Dragon is to his sin eater landlord. We might want to talk to Broken Seeker a bit before heading in.
More likely, we need to talk to Bob first.
If there's a big-ass spirit living under that city as its City-Father or guardian, I doubt its unknown to the spirits.
 
Last edited:
We know that Red Court is in some way in bed with Outsiders. The question is how loyal Dragon is to his sin eater landlord. We might want to talk to Broken Seeker a bit before heading in.
Not sure making him aware of and involved in this is a good plan. We ended a round cleanly with him, if we open another he's going to take it as an invitation to play another game/set up another date with Molly.

We keep guessing here, but we have the crown of eyes. We can just ask what that thing is using casino advertisements and work from there.
1)Want to contest their claim? No. But Maeve straight up says they cant.
Its like the US saying they dont have the military capacity to invade a Pacific island.

I think you're reading too much into it. Maeve immediately clarifies that doing so would be difficult and unrewarding, which is probably what she meant. She said stave off not forced out, and this describes why that's the case without implying one city's sin is enough to make you that powerful.

Maeve giggles."The Dragon's a cup-bearer, no more and no less, but it gives him great power in his domain, enough that it would be difficult to shift him and even if we did..."

"Your prize would be brand new front, assuming the changeover would even work out cleanly,"
And frankly, if it was amenable to fixes, I suspect that the wizards and shamans who summoned a sin-eater to guard the place would have done something like that instead.
Yeah, the only viable solution I can see would be making our own replacement creature, but that would be very complicated politically and likely require us to make the god first so that the passage isn't left unguarded.

We could maybe try summoning one of our demons to do it, but that's only slightly better logistically. I doubt anyone would be happy with us appearing to drag something that powerful from somewhere that looks like the deep nevernever.
 
North Korea is a far better example, I feel. Or Afghanistan. USA (Winter) could invade, but it's far more trouble that it's worth, and would only make the situation worse.

Yeah, it is not just a case of treaties, indeed the local bloodsucker is not even part of the Accords. Vegas is a lot more magical than the norm with a lot of odd sights skating by on the excitement and the general inebriation of its guests. It is just part of the show right? ( ;) ) Either way Winter does not want the hassle according to Maeve and they really do not want the upkeep.
 
It probably needs a Wyld-Shaping Technique or equivalent to patch up the hole after you beat the face of whatever is waiting on the other side.
And this presumes that the hole is a defect, instead of a design feature.
Which Im not willing to bet on.
I think you're reading too much into it. Maeve immediately clarifies that doing so would be difficult and unrewarding, which is probably what she meant. She said stave off not forced out, and this describes why that's the case without implying one city's sin is enough to make you that powerful.
Maybe. Guessing we'll find out soon enough.
Yeah, the only viable solution I can see would be making our own replacement creature, but that would be very complicated politically and likely require us to make the god first so that the passage isn't left unguarded.

We could maybe try summoning one of our demons to do it, but that's only slightly better logistically. I doubt anyone would be happy with us appearing to drag something that powerful from somewhere that looks like the deep nevernever.
True.
And any existing Brass Court spirits of that heft almost certainly already have existing jobs to fill anyway.
 
Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Oct 28, 2023 at 5:00 PM, finished with 72 posts and 17 votes.


Im going to suggest that its probably a bad idea to get into the habit of making unconditional deals with the Winter Lady.
 
[X] Agree to deal with the situation personally, but make the bargain conditional upon voluntary successful completion. Maeve will owe you nothing, if you don't deliver, but you also have no obligation to deliver, and owe her nothing if you don't. (Costs 1 AP next month)
 
And this presumes that the hole is a defect, instead of a design feature.
Which Im not willing to bet on.
Thankfully we're one of the few beings that can check that. I'm also curious about what was stopping it from being used before the sin eater.
Maybe. Guessing we'll find out soon enough.
That least DP post seems to confirm it.
True.
And any existing Brass Court spirits of that heft almost certainly already have existing jobs to fill anyway.
Yeah. Logistically the best way to do this would probably be to get a spirit lined up from the FCF for temporary duty, kill the sin eater, replace, then make a new spirit while our temp holds down the fort.

The problems here being politics, and if we're actually strong enough to pick that fight. Overall a bad idea even if it does end up being possible.
Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Oct 28, 2023 at 5:00 PM, finished with 72 posts and 17 votes.


Im going to suggest that its probably a bad idea to get into the habit of making unconditional deals with the Winter Lady.
Yeah. Even with the write in we should probably make a habit of having Usum play lawyer for any deals we make. We need a Devil for the details.
 
And this presumes that the hole is a defect, instead of a design feature.
Which Im not willing to bet on.
With real Wyld-shaping that wouldn't be an issue.
Forcing the stuff of the Outside into a solid block of Creation would be possible regardless what other Creators intended.

But we don't have that tool, for now and the foreseeable future.
 
With real Wyld-shaping that wouldn't be an issue.
Forcing the stuff of the Outside into a solid block of Creation would be possible regardless what other Creators intended.

But we don't have that tool, for now and the foreseeable future.
Indeed. My cobbled-together replacement splendor is, well, cobbled together with scraps of ancient glory.
And this presumes that the hole is a defect, instead of a design feature.
Which Im not willing to bet on.
I very highly doubt that a passage to Outside is a design feature of current Creation. But we'll check, yes.

Also, ask yourself this: how did nuclear testing just outside the city affect the spirit guarding the gateway, and/or what was the testing a cover for (who was it hitting?)?
 
With real Wyld-shaping that wouldn't be an issue.
Forcing the stuff of the Outside into a solid block of Creation would be possible regardless what other Creators intended.

But we don't have that tool, for now and the foreseeable future.
The Primordials in Creation literally had one of their number playing borderguard because they couldnt really automate the process.
I very highly doubt that a passage to Outside is a design feature of current Creation. But we'll check, yes.

Also, ask yourself this: how did nuclear testing just outside the city affect the spirit guarding the gateway, and/or what was the testing a cover for (who was it hitting?)?
The existence of the Outer Gates says otherwise.
I suspect there's a reason there are Gates, instead of just an impassable Wall.
I not only suspect that it might be a design feature, I suspect its not the only such spot.


Nuclear testing range was at least 60 miles away from Vegas at the closest point:
Im guessing there was no coverup involved.
Nevada is just a largely empty state(total population 3.1 million, 75% of which is in and around Vegas) which made it convenient for popping nukes. The same reason why the USAF has a lot of its black aircraft programs in the state.

If Demonreach has no real effect on Chicago, I am willing to bet that nuclear testing did nothing to Vegas.
 
[X] Agree to deal with the situation personally, but make the bargain conditional upon voluntary successful completion. Maeve will owe you nothing, if you don't deliver, but you also have no obligation to deliver, and owe her nothing if you don't. (Costs 1 AP next month)
 
The Primordials in Creation literally had one of their number playing borderguard because they couldnt really automate the process.
The Solars did better though.

They could expand Creation at will and cover the new bordermarches under their defence network.

But that would be hardly relevant here.
In DF the outer borders are much harder to cross and aside from the Gates Outsiders can only enter by invitation.
So just slaying the Outsider that was the original problem that the Sin Eater was created to defend against should leave the problem solved.
 
Also, ask yourself this: how did nuclear testing just outside the city affect the spirit guarding the gateway, and/or what was the testing a cover for (who was it hitting?)?

I mean, does nuclear testing count as gambling with potential nuclear war? :V

That would be a pretty big sin to eat.
 
Last edited:
[X] Agree to deal with the situation personally, but make the bargain conditional upon voluntary successful completion. Maeve will owe you nothing, if you don't deliver, but you also have no obligation to deliver, and owe her nothing if you don't. (Costs 1 AP next month)
 
If Demonreach has no real effect on Chicago, I am willing to bet that nuclear testing did nothing to Vegas.
I can't talk about Vegas directly, since I wasn't able to find the data, but that distance is not that large. There's a reason I prefer not to visit Kurchatov (town near Semipalatinsk testing site) in summer, when there is no snow to keep the dust down. And juclear weapons are metaphorically powerful enough to serve as adhoc spirit killers. I very much expect there to be some effect at least.

From what I can tell, there's weak evidence of the guardian of the threshold being suborned, or at least of its servants being suborned, or at least there being an active operation to suborn them. We might want to intervene.
 
Back
Top