I would find that argument reasonable if you were talking about Spawning Pit Infliction, which is where she digs a hole in the ground and does not have to be there for the person's transformation.
But if Molly is using Inner Devils Unleashed to personally invest 3m of Essence per person to alter them enough to awake supernatural powers, its reasonable to assume that she's making a call on what she's awaking.
Much like with the medical charm where she's building cyberware implants for the person.
My two cents.
No, you are missing the details.
Everybody can make phantasms; Infernals make emanations, while everyone else makes ephemera.
They both use keystones and the same mechanics; only difference between them is flavor, and Infernals having an interaction with their Hell if they have it.
Phantasms are artificially-constructed spirits, anchored to a physical keystone. The most
common sort of phantasms, ephemera, are mostly designed to operate in one of the otherworlds,
with limited capability to physically influence the mortal world. Others are emanations, with
greater agency to act in material reality but still not natively part of it.
Simulacra are Arcana designed in the image of humanity. They vary tremendously, from what
are essentially sophisticated golems projecting an illusion of normalcy, to clones, to congeries of
reanimated body-parts. A simulacrum can generally pass for human.
Horrors are Arcana constructed primarily out of dead flesh, with limited inclusions of inanimate
support materials.
Arcana and the Chosen
Different sorts of Exalted possess the wherewithal to spark the animation of different sorts of
Arcana with their Essence. Specifically:
Dragon-Blooded may create golems and ephemera. Their golems are always of strongly
elemental character, as are their phantasms.
Solar Exalted may create any sort of Arcana save for emanations and horrors.
Lunar Exalted are able to create golems and ephemera.
Sidereal Exalted possess the capacity to forge golems and ephemera.
Abyssal Exalted can craft ephemera, and may build simulacra out of dead flesh. They are the
only variety of Chosen capable of forging horrors.
Infernal Exalted are able to build golems, design simulacra, and are the only Exalted who may
craft emanations.
Heart-Eaters can build ephemera and simulacra. Phantasm (Ephemera): Ephemera can soak lethal damage, but not aggravated.
Select either the Umbra or the Underworld. This is the phantasm's native home. It may roam
freely in its native realm, where it enjoys the natural ability to converse with the other native
denizens and to navigate without undue difficulty (in the Umbra, this amounts to having the
Charm Airt Sense, while in the Underworld it amounts to having several dots of Argos). The
phantasm may manifest in the physical world only while within one hundred yards of its
keystone, and must pay one Willpower to remain manifest for a scene. It is always aware when
its keystone is being moved or disturbed, and may pay one Willpower to immediately teleport to
its keystone's location.
If the phantasm's master speaks while within the keystone's presence, the Arcana hears her
words wherever it may be. If she commands the ephemera to attend her, it may teleport to the
keystone's location without paying any Willpower. If the keystone is destroyed, the phantasm is
also destroyed. If the ephemera is slain, it may reform a year and a day later within its keystone.
Each point of Essence fed into the keystone by its master quickens this recovery by 28 days.
Ephemera are always unmistakably phantasmal beings. Even when manifested physically, the edges of their body seem to roil and waver like fog, or to possess other overtly "spirit-like" or "ghostly" traits.
Phantasm (Emanation): Emanations can soak lethal damage, but not aggravated.
Select either the Umbra or the Underworld. This is the emanation's native home. It may roam
freely in its native realm, where it enjoys the natural ability to converse with the other native
denizens and to navigate without undue difficulty (in the Umbra, this amounts to having the
Charm Airt Sense, while in the Underworld it amounts to having several dots of Argos). The
phantasm may manifest in the physical world only while within one hundred yards of its
keystone, or within ten yards of its master. It must pay one Willpower to remain manifest for a
scene. It may pay one Willpower to immediately teleport to its master's or keystone's location.
If the phantasm's master the emanation's name, the Arcana hears her words wherever it may be.
If she commands the ephemera to attend her, it may teleport to her master's location and
manifest without paying any Willpower. If the keystone is destroyed, the phantasm is also
destroyed. If the emanation is slain, it may reform one hundred years later within its keystone.
Each point of Essence fed into the keystone by its master quickens this recovery by 10 years.
If the emanation's master has learned The King and the Kingdom: The Thousand and First Hell, the phantasm may treat its master's Hell as a keystone.
Ephemera are always otherworldly, disturbing beings with demonic features of some sort that cannot be mistaken for as human.
The colored parts are the only difference.
TL DR
One looks like a ghost or spirit, the other looks like a demon.
Thats it.
No, you are misreading that as well. I'll bold what I think is significant:
Fetish
You possess a fetish — a physical object into which a werewolf has bound a spirit. The spirit grants a number of powers to a fetish, so they are very significant to the Garou. Such things are valuable, and other Garou (or other supernatural beings) may covet them. A number of sample fetishes are presented
on p. 221.
Gaia's Chosen may use the Rite of the Fetish (see p. 213) to bind spirits into appropriately crafted and consecrated vessels. Such wondrous items are known as fetishes. The owner of a fetish can call upon the spirit within to perform specific tasks, depending on the nature of the vessel and the spirit. Given the multitude of spirits within the Tellurian and the ingenuity of the Garou, fetishes of almost any type imaginable may be created.
Werewolves hold great reverence toward fetishes, treating them as honored allies rather than mere tools. Such is the nature of the pact that binds spirits into fetishes; they are obligated to serve the Garou only as long as they are respected in return. It is possible to bind a spirit against its will, but these fetishes tend to be rebellious, and most Garou consider them cursed.
Of course, the servants of the Wyrm bind Banes into horrifying fetishes of their own...
The majority of fetishes are crafted from natural materials (wood, hide, bone, clay), although this is more a preference of most spirits than a hard rule — Glass Walkers, in particular, tend to bind spirits that prefer more modern, technological housing. Few fetishes are nondescript; Garou adorn them with carved river stones, feathers, beads, and other markings to honor and appease the spirit within.
To use a fetish, the Garou must first attune herself to it by making a Gnosis roll. The difficulty for this roll is the fetish's Gnosis rating. Attunement establishes a spiritual bond between fetish and user, enabling the Garou to take the fetish anywhere in the Tellurian and providing instinctive understanding of the fetish's powers. Only a single success is required to attune to the fetish; failure indicates that the fetish has rejected the character. Another roll may not be attempted until the werewolf has somehow reached accord with the resident spirit. Attunement also effectively "dedicates" a fetish to its wielder, as though the Rite of Talisman Dedication had been performed on it. Since fetishes have their own Gnosis, an attuned fetish doesn't count against the maximum number of objects a werewolf can have dedicated to him.
Each time the wielder wishes to use one of the fetish's powers, the player must make a Gnosis roll (difficulty equal to the fetish's Gnosis rating) to "activate" the power. Alternatively, she may simply spend a Gnosis point to activate the power automatically. Rage may not be spent during the same turn in which a fetish is activated.
A list of sample fetishes follows:
Spirits do not have volition when in a fetish. They dont decide when or how the fetish is used.
The activation of the fetish is by the wielder; the spirits sole decision is whether to attune a given user or not in the first place.
Indeed, some fetishes have multiple spirits inside them IIRC correctly.
Thats why, for those fetishes that give the benefits of a Gift, the rolls are based on the wielder's stats, not those of the spirit.
As for the other part of your argument, may I draw your attention to this fetish?
Keeping unauthorized spirits out of designated areas is something that you can do with a Level 3 fetish in W20.
So we're not talking something new here.
Doesnt particularly matter in this case anyway.
A child is not equipped to make the kinds of decisions a principal needs to make, nor is the bodyguard empowered to make those decisions for several years without executive oversight. So the keystone cant be on the child, nor can the child be its master.
Assuming we're doing master/owner stuff with a sapient-construct anyway.
No, you're mistaken.
The point of a bodyguard is the safety of the principal. Always.
The first rule of protection is deterrence, to prevent a confrontation happening in the first place by making ill-doers rethink.
The second is extraction, to get the principal away if a confrontation happens at all.
Thats not whats necessary for a guardian construct.
You've gone past necessary to want. And a want that has significant drawbacks with regards to both maintaining protective coverage and allowing the child live a life.
In my opinion, at least.
Fetish or prodigy according to the rules.
Prodigy is probably a better call I think, but you start running into material issues for making each one under the current rules.
But my ultimate point is simple:
A phantasm is the wrong type of construct for this task. You either commit to a different type of Arcana (Golem or Simulacrum) with the costs involved, or an animal fomor, or just a very smart dog.
Thats my two cents.
My dude, Molly was targeted by an agent of Nemesis/the Outsiders when she was still a teenage fledgeling wizard talent with no swag. Do you think that its going to stop now?
Didnt think so.
Its not paranoia when they are actually out to get you.
They are facing the book protagonist, of course they are losing.
But the White God didnt put three angels in Swords to chase scrubs around; every old Denarian we see is almost invariably a deadly competent evildoer. If they have several centuries under their belt, they've survived a life on the run with several generations of agents of the White God coming for them.
Even Quintus Cassius, for all he didnt do much onscreen, was more than 1600 years old.
You dont get that old in this business without being competent at what you do, not with three Swords out for your head.
Our foci arent unlimited. Every one we burn is gone.
Yes.
Path Sorcery Countermagic is 3xp per type of magic, for a total of 12xp for all 4x.
And if the QM allows us to buy Ancient Sorcery Countermagic, thats 10xp.
But we dont have anything to prove, and they have no reasonable way of asking us to demonstrate it.
I'd argue our foci are near unlimited like we can't reuse them but there are a lot of potential foci out there for near unlimited questions. Not all of them are easy to get but like we can use clothes and shit as foci, situations, people themselves, etc etc. Like our options are not small even if they are limited.
I'd argue our foci are near unlimited like we can't reuse them but there are a lot of potential foci out there for near unlimited questions. Not all of them are easy to get but like we can use clothes and shit as foci, situations, people themselves, etc etc. Like our options are not small even if they are limited.
The most plentiful type of crown foci are situations. However we often don't want to use our crown when we are in the situation for various reasons so the foci often goes to waste. We have been getting around that by taking pictures and recording which we use as foci later, but I get the impression that they are lesser quality foci then the situation itself.
Maybe we should make a prodigal able to record higher quality foci?
Fetish or prodigy according to the rules.
Prodigy is probably a better call I think, but you start running into material issues for making each one under the current rules.
It's not actually that hard to get strong effects given the scale we have for the aura masking stuff.
3 dots is where reagents come up, and that level of reagent includes magic mushrooms and small samples of vampire blood. Getting the highest possible effects from magic items without paying the regular price would mean adding some interesting restrictions, but that's plenty fair as a trade off and doesn't stop us from getting things short of that.
A 3 dot prodigy effect paid down with an appropriate flaw would basically be as good at whatever it did as a professional wizard grade item. 4-5 is the eyebrow raising end of things.
You dont get that old in this business without being competent at what you do, not with three Swords out for your head. You don't need to be super comptent because they are more warriors than planners.
Fey: Denarians likely don't have much trouble with them. They aren't like Dresden stumbling into bad deals. Every one of them has a skilled and experienced lawyer in their head feeding them lines.
White Court: Were not a big deal until recently and Denarians are fairly well equipped to handle them with both resistance to other mind whammy and a more powerful war form.
Black Court: Not sure how the relationships would gone, but I bet there were many deaths.
Red Court: Friction and fighting, but they aren't going to seriously fight each other.
In general the Denarians likely live so long because of a habit of picking on those that can't effectively fight back. Much like all the other DF bad guys.
Being a long lived bad guy in DF is easy. Doing the right thing is hard.
Yes they are, actually. And no, they are not reactive.
While they do offer redemption first, they will move on to the beheading if said redemption is refused.
Ask Rasmussen/Ursiel.
Of the four Knights we've seen in canon, Shiro and Sanya literally appeared to live on the move fulltime, chasing Denarians from location to location. Butters and Michael living in Chicago and wielding Amoracchius and Fidelacchius part-time appeared to be the exception, not the rule.
We can use scenes and conversations as foci for organizations if they are broad enough, but not every conversation qualifies.
And its not like the bad guys are obliged to sit down and wait for us, instead of simply subverting someone and using their access to work mischief immediately.
I remain of the opinion that you are overestimating the use of the Crown of Eyes as a monitoring device.
That doesnt seem to be what its designed to do.
White Council: Will probably execute any wizard they can catch known to have picked up a Coin.
Do recall that since our PoV character in canon is the notoriously stay at home baby wizard Harry Dresden, we only see a fraction of the setting. He's spent most of the ongoing war at home. We barely see anything outside Chicago, let alone the rest of the US; Changes was the one time Dresden went outside the US for a fight.
The Denarians are a global operation.
And its worth remembering that most of their mortal "allies" will happily take the opportunity to shank a Denarian if it gives them an opportunity to pick up the Coin afterwards.
I would find that argument reasonable if you were talking about Spawning Pit Infliction, which is where she digs a hole in the ground and does not have to be there for the person's transformation.
But if Molly is using Inner Devils Unleashed to personally invest 3m of Essence per person to alter them enough to awake supernatural powers, its reasonable to assume that she's making a call on what she's awaking.
Much like with the medical charm where she's building cyberware implants for the person.
Monsters lurk in every heart. Empowering a per-
son's inner darkness, the Infernal makes that monster
real. She must approach a mortal and breathe into
their mouth to use this Charm. Her victim's shadow
twists and distorts, becoming a demon of Kakuri be-
fore climbing into the target's flesh and inflicting a
brief, agonizing transformation.
Phantasm (Ephemera): Ephemera can soak lethal damage, but not aggravated.
Select either the Umbra or the Underworld. This is the phantasm's native home. It may roam
freely in its native realm, where it enjoys the natural ability to converse with the other native
denizens and to navigate without undue difficulty (in the Umbra, this amounts to having the
Charm Airt Sense, while in the Underworld it amounts to having several dots of Argos). The
phantasm may manifest in the physical world only while within one hundred yards of its
keystone, and must pay one Willpower to remain manifest for a scene. It is always aware when
its keystone is being moved or disturbed, and may pay one Willpower to immediately teleport to
its keystone's location.
If the phantasm's master speaks while within the keystone's presence, the Arcana hears her
words wherever it may be. If she commands the ephemera to attend her, it may teleport to the
keystone's location without paying any Willpower. If the keystone is destroyed, the phantasm is
also destroyed. If the ephemera is slain, it may reform a year and a day later within its keystone. Each point of Essence fed into the keystone by its master quickens this recovery by 28 days.
Ephemera are always unmistakably phantasmal beings. Even when manifested physically, the
edges of their body seem to roil and waver like fog, or to possess other overtly "spirit-like" or
"ghostly" traits.
Phantasm (Emanation): Emanations can soak lethal damage, but not aggravated.
Select either the Umbra or the Underworld. This is the emanation's native home. It may roam
freely in its native realm, where it enjoys the natural ability to converse with the other native
denizens and to navigate without undue difficulty (in the Umbra, this amounts to having the
Charm Airt Sense, while in the Underworld it amounts to having several dots of Argos). The
phantasm may manifest in the physical world only while within one hundred yards of its
keystone, or within ten yards of its master. It must pay one Willpower to remain manifest for a
scene. It may pay one Willpower to immediately teleport to its master's or keystone's location.
If the phantasm's master the emanation's name, the Arcana hears her words wherever it may be.
If she commands the ephemera to attend her, it may teleport to her master's location and manifest without paying any Willpower. If the keystone is destroyed, the phantasm is also
destroyed. If the emanation is slain, it may reform one hundred years later within its keystone. Each point of Essence fed into the keystone by its master quickens this recovery by 10 years.
If the emanation's master has learned The King and the Kingdom: The Thousand and First Hell,
the phantasm may treat its master's Hell as a keystone.
Ephemera are always otherworldly, disturbing beings with demonic features of some sort that
cannot be mistaken for as human.
Emanations have the following differences:
1) Can teleport to their master. Ephemera are bound to a keystone, and keystone only. Emanation can also attend their master, by teleporting to them (at a cost of 1 WP if its their own initiative, and for free, if called)
2) The scale of Emanation (at least in terms of time) is two orders of magnitude higher than that of Ephemera. 100 years vs. 1 year
Spirits do not have volition when in a fetish. They dont decide when or how the fetish is used.
The activation of the fetish is by the wielder; the spirits sole decision is whether to attune a given user or not in the first place.
Indeed, some fetishes have multiple spirits inside them IIRC correctly.
Thats why, for those fetishes that give the benefits of a Gift, the rolls are based on the wielder's stats, not those of the spirit.
You are conveniently completely ignoring the parts I bolded, I see. We won't agree here at all, and, as always, nothing I say will convince you of anything. Last try: spirit in a fetish can rebel, meaning that they have volition.
OK so first off on the matter of cult, yes the people in your court count, there are world-building reasons for this that would be very spoilery to get into
Also Vote closed, lets see if you can pull the wool over their eyes.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Oct 17, 2023 at 2:52 AM, finished with 70 posts and 13 votes.
[X] It was breaking a curse. That is sort of true if you squint, with mental apologies of the shadow in the mirror
[X] It was breaking a curse. That is sort of true if you squint, with mental apologies of the shadow in the mirror
-[X] Harry took a metaphorical bullet helping protect my family from the Denarians, and I, in turn, used my powers to free him from his affliction.
[X] It was breaking a curse. That is sort of true if you squint, with mental apologies of the shadow in the mirror
-[X] [Stunt]: Sighing Molly pans her gaze across the room. " Well this is a touch awkward isn't it? I'd like to maintain some privacy on that matter, but can hardly do so without sounding malicious about it."
—[X] " To start, I give you my word I've done nothing to change, control, or otherwise exert supernatural influence Harry Dresden to my own purposes. I simply set to rights a wrong he incurred defending my family, leaving him as he was before it happened."
With a sigh and just a touch of emotive alchemy you turn your very real worry for Harry into something like sheepishness, looking down at your drink as though you are trying to hide behind the half-melted mount of whipped cream on top before allowing a touch of defiance to enter your gaze as it turns to meet Donald Morgans cold appraisal. Thus with deliberate calm three layers up from the real secret you say: "It was a curse, I broke it. Some curses are like barbed arrows, you can't pull them out without doing some damage. Fortunately it was only physical damage and I am a skilled enough brewer to heal those."
Lost 1 Willpower -> Now at 8/9
Essence at 12/15
Leaning into 'kid with too much power' isn't exactly going to help your diplomatic efforts, but it is what the veteran warden wants to see and that is most of this battle won. Instead of answering you he wheezes: "Dresden, are you a wizard or aren't you? if you are under a curse you bloody call for help. Do you understand me?"
Harry starts to bristle, barbs a plenty no doubt coming to mind, even from what little you know of his past with the Council, but he manages to swallow them all and nod once.
For his part Carlos Ramirez is trying and mostly failing to hide a smirk, looking on with admiration between the maverick and the... pretty girl with superpowers. You recognize that look a mile away and sure it's a flattering , but there are bigger fish to fry, like the woman delicately sipping her tea on Ramirez' other side... and it is like trying to read a brick wall, a very polite and demure brick wall granted, as though someone had painted a bunker in pastel colors.
"I am no expert in war-making, but for my part I commend the use of local allies to remove dangerous magics," she says pleasantly to Harry, though obviously aimed in equal measure at you. "So many lines converge here that many are drawn to it for good or for ill. Tis wise to take the first as guard against the second."
"'Ill' doesn't require malice, not at first." Morgan rumbles, putting his own cup down on the table with a rattle, having drunk just enough as to not give insult. He turns to look you dead in the eye. "Power, great power especially wants to be used, it wants to expand. You seem to be doing quite a bit of that Ms Carpenter, throwing your weight around, helping the White King deal with Skavis and his own nephew, getting a favor from the local warden under the table for dealing with this curse. What do you want? Where do you see yourself being in five years? In ten?" As Wu Min looks at him with something too restrained to be outrage but too sharp to be annoyance and you open your mouth to answer he raises a hand. "Yeah believe it when you say you don't like the things Skavis and Madrigal Raith were trucking with and you'd rather the world still be here in ten years, but before we all set off on the Yellow Brick Road I'd like to hear what your plans are beyond that."
Silence reigns for a moment, but before you can get your thoughts in order Ramirez exclaims: "Hey! I thought blurting shit out was why you brought me along for the ride." A few of the Jade Dogs laugh, as does Harry, though in his case you suspect it is as much relief that there was no more talk of 'the curse', but you still have to consider how to answer the question which had you suspect been asked with more artfulness than Wu Min assumes. Donald Morgan is no diplomat, but he is an investigator, at times you do not doubt an interogator. He is trying to get your story so he has something to weigh future evidence against, a skeptical approach for a deeply skeptical man.
What do you reply?
[] Look around you, I want to help those who have been dealt a poor hand in life master their demons and do good.
[] My father's enemies are my enemies, that will will take more than five or ten years to deal with
[] Write in
OOC: I know the vote did not say to spend willpower, but I felt that it would make sense for Molly given her intimacies and it turned out to be a good call given the rolls
Silence reigns for a moment, but before you can get your thoughts in order Ramirez exclaims: "Hey! I thought blurting shit out was why you brought me along for the ride." A few of the Jade Dogs, as does Harry, though in his case you suspect it is as much relief that there was no more talk of 'the curse', but you still have to consider how to answer the question which had you suspect been asked with more artfulness than Wu Min assumes. Donald Morgan is no diplomat, but he is an investigator, at times you do not doubt an interogator. He is trying to get your story so he has something to weigh future evidence against, a skeptical approach for a deeply skeptical man.
[X] Plan A Well Told Truth
-[X] Looking Morgan just above the eye in the manner of one just barely avoiding a soulgaze Molly considers her answer. " Truth be told, I don't precisely have a plan as you might see it." With something approaching a wry smile she continues "I hope you can take some comfort in that I wasn't expecting this more than anyone else."
—[X] " What I have are people I care for, causes I believe in, and responsibilities to meet." With a beat of the heart behind her heart, an impossible certainty filled her " And I will see them filled; I cannot yet fully articulate what the responsibilities of helping forge an entire world are, but I will not be found wanting"
—[X] Sweeping the rest of the room, Molly not-quite meets the gaze of each other wizard in turn. "More immediately, I want to change this world for the better too; in particular I cannot stand how many people - mortal and otherwise - are kept like slaves and hunted like animals." As she continued something as cold as a river of liquid oxygen and sharp as iron wind welled up in her voice "If the growth of new things must break something old then mine will be there; in ten years I'd like to have built something where being weaker doesn't make you lesser and free will isn't a toy for those who choose to be monsters"
I don't think Morgan is the type to buy let's all sing Kumbaya together as a motive, not if it's focused entirely on the positive. Seems to me that for a cynic like that framing things in terms of whose bones we're going to be sucking the marrow out of to fuel our growth is a better play.
Basically "someone - see Uriel - socialized a baby Yama Queen to roughly follow our playbook, so the awful shit is now rolling down the other side of the hill onto the bad guys for once".
I also think this is a reasonably truthful assessment of Molly's situation. We don't really have a big plan, or even a medium term growth strategy, really hammered out. We have a series of motives and intimacies that inform how we desire to grow going forward and how we want to use power as we gain it.
Yes they are, actually. And no, they are not reactive.
While they do offer redemption first, they will move on to the beheading if said redemption is refused.
Ask Rasmussen/Ursiel.
Of the four Knights we've seen in canon, Shiro and Sanya literally appeared to live on the move fulltime, chasing Denarians from location to location. Butters and Michael living in Chicago and wielding Amoracchius and Fidelacchius part-time appeared to be the exception, not the rule
They don't really do anything proactive tho, chasing down denarians isn't being proactive its being led by the denarians. Being proactive would doing things like setting ambushes, attacking their powerbase, picking of isolated denarians etc.
They are knights chasing a quarry. Avoiding them is no sign of great skill.
We can use scenes and conversations as foci for organizations if they are broad enough, but not every conversation qualifies.
And its not like the bad guys are obliged to sit down and wait for us, instead of simply subverting someone and using their access to work mischief immediately.
I remain of the opinion that you are overestimating the use of the Crown of Eyes as a monitoring device.
That doesnt seem to be what its designed to do
We can literally use things like a hr file to act as a question. So if we have thousand memebers thats a thousand hr files and thousand question. In addtion to the various foci that also exist.
And it is verifiably able to prevent and dectect subversion. Like it detected outsider subversion and wizard subversion with a single question. Like the giant conspiracy that has the white council in its grasp is undone by a single question.
They aren't doing anything to any organization we head.
[JK] Plan? What plan. My head is a direct democracy full of kleptomaniac squirls. Any plans I may have are derailed the moment they see something shinny. I don't plans beyond help people, build cool shit, and take over the world. Not THIS world mind you. I have my hands full with the other one.
