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[X] uju32
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
House rule : (Very) small god.
Clarification: God of the keystone?
Or god of what the keystone is attached to?
Just to be clear, because one of the rule options includes using your Hell as a keystone for any emanation you make.
Nicodemus has a Fallen Angel looking over his shoulder, as do all the other Denarians.
Dont underestimate them.
Same with all the other people I pointed out here.
The Yama Kings have been subverting spirits and shen since before the birth of Christ, and Nemesis is just utter bullshit thats kept in check by the rules of reality.
That was my thought. But the QM has ruled them as small gods.
Not that it materially changes their capabilities, or vulnerabilities.
So 🤷
House rule : (Very) small god.
Clarification: God of the keystone?
Or god of what the keystone is attached to?
Just to be clear, because one of the rule options includes using your Hell as a keystone for any emanation you make.
God of what it is attached to, though you cannot make them gods of your hell since you are already kind of that. You can make one a god of say a mountain in your hell and for mechanical purposes it would be as if they use your hell as keystone. With time you will be able to do more abstract things like 'totem spirit of a particular animal'.
Nothing says they can be designed either. You want them to be customizable, but there's a very clear intent that they are not. Even if they are
They are only designable by Infernals. Why, what do infernals have that others don't? That's right, their primordial legacy and inheritance. Also, Bane is a small god.
As to growing in power - you can have an Arcana PC. this directly implies that they can accumulate XP, which they can spend.
That's wrong:
Fetishes are vessels for spirits under certain pacts. They have wills of their own. They have their own gnosis.
If you posit that you can't take an emanation keystone past a threshold, you also directly disable all fetishes. That just doesn't work.
Yes. And if the master is a keystone (and no, I will accept a ruling that a mortal can't be a keystone, but we haven't had one yet), or has the keystone embedded into their body, then the difference is moot.
The point of this bodyguard is not deterrence. It's protection and help. Multilayered protection - stealth prodigy + guardian spirit.
No, I expect human-level intelligent guardian bound to their charge to be able to fulfill its task with human-level intelligence. Something that dogs can't do.
Make it a splendor then. Or a mortal stealth enchantment. We have Mab's gift, for example. One specifically designed for protection of children.
You are, oftentimes to the point of paranoia, at least from where I am standing.
So are many First Circle Demons, you can make them with free will though, there are rules for playing them.
Don't also overestimate them. They aren't that comptent in the books.
We have the omnicient crown. We could literally ask a question everyday who in the hierarchy is corrupt.
Like we aren't helpless against subversion. We can match and overmatch all the players.
No i meant thematically if they don't have spirit powers and do soirit things then they aren't spirit.
Plus the very text that Uju cited telling they tend to grow more sophisticated with time, showing that they very much are not static.
You do realize that is cutting her off from most of the people she knows? We aren't her only link to the world, and alienating her from the place she lives in like that is not really a great thing to do.
Not to mention, she is likely to refuse anyway, and I would oppose any person that would try to force her on this.
- Location
- Near Water
Could Molly use the dharma Face of the Gods to grow a cult of worshipers to both help out the downtrodden and unwanted supernatural creatures, as well as harvest their faith as chi?
Ah I see, you want to make spirits per Werewolf rules with a gnosis rating. I would have to design a system for that from scratch, but there is nothing conceptually stopping you from doing so. Think of Emanations as the first template that comes to mind when you dig into Ye Olde Demon archive in your brain.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Yes, but their chi is worthless to us. We could prayer eat, but it is hard to manage the logistics of that to actually be worthwhile unless we have hundreds of jade batteries.
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Yes, prayer eating is a thing you can learn and it is more potent than in the base game, for an earthly cult at least, you do not get an automatic cult for just having a inhabited hell, that Essence is already yours.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
There any anti curse sorcery we can get next xp spending point to bolster our story of uncursing vs exorcising Harry if it becomes relevant?
- Location
- Near Water
Would Molly need to be in proximity to people who are praying to hear to eat their prayers? If not, enough random people praying in multiple areas over the world would give a constant low gain of chi when she focuses to eat it.
She would eventually develop the power to do so yes, though there is something of a personal impediment to making a cult. Molly Carpenter isn't your average Infernal, that is the point of the quest.
Our exorcism already sort of does, or at least is broader than the name implies:
It doesn't just work on possession, it cleans you of anything that might be used to track, spy, or manipulate your mind/senses through any long term mechanism.
- Location
- Near Water
Yes, her faith in the white god makes it akward for her to think she is a god. She could be like one of the Chinese little gods in cannon, who speaks with the celestial bureaucracy by using chi gained by prayer to ask for blessings on her congregations behalf. The vampires she as followers/companions could prayer to her, she asks the celestial bureaucracy to help them on her behalf ( and a bribe of jade of course) to help them learn to feed on acceptable emotions.She would eventually develop the power to do so yes, though there is something of a personal impediment to making a cult. Molly Carpenter isn't your average Infernal, that is the point of the quest.
BTW is it okay to tag you in responses?
- Location
- Estonia
[X] uju32
The worst thing they can think would most likely still not be as bad as a Fallen Shadow. Even if they believe some previously-unheard-of procedure got rid of it (and it's simply not hiding), the fact that one of their Wardens was "compromised" for so long can bring a heap of bureaucratic trouble on Harry's shoulders, in the best case.
Especially since right now, the only thing Porter actually said was that Harry "was in pain" and that he was being healed. The easiest most obvious answer could easily be, that he got hurt/wounded, like he has many times before, and we were just healing him.
The worst thing they can think would most likely still not be as bad as a Fallen Shadow. Even if they believe some previously-unheard-of procedure got rid of it (and it's simply not hiding), the fact that one of their Wardens was "compromised" for so long can bring a heap of bureaucratic trouble on Harry's shoulders, in the best case.
Especially since right now, the only thing Porter actually said was that Harry "was in pain" and that he was being healed. The easiest most obvious answer could easily be, that he got hurt/wounded, like he has many times before, and we were just healing him.
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Does that ruling override this one, or do you just mean we need to pay exp per cult level in addition to taking the hell build option to acquire the energy?
Sure, I do not mind.
*glances at clock, sees it's midnight*
I am going to have to think about this in the morning, I can see arguments on both sides IC and OOC and I do not want to make the call tired when I might be missing something.
Inner Devils Unchained doesn't necessarily allow us to design the fomor; Lydia's charm does. Also, as fomor creation/enhancement charms go, I'd much rather take Chirality Prohibition Index, which has been ruled to stack with Companions of the Hunter. Between us and Lydia, we can give that service dog 140 xp worth of buffing, including human+ Intelligence.
I would find that argument reasonable if you were talking about Spawning Pit Infliction, which is where she digs a hole in the ground and does not have to be there for the person's transformation.
But if Molly is using Inner Devils Unleashed to personally invest 3m of Essence per person to alter them enough to awake supernatural powers, its reasonable to assume that she's making a call on what she's awaking.
Much like with the medical charm where she's building cyberware implants for the person.
My two cents.
No, you are missing the details.
Everybody can make phantasms; Infernals make emanations, while everyone else makes ephemera.
They both use keystones and the same mechanics; only difference between them is flavor, and Infernals having an interaction with their Hell if they have it.
Phantasms are artificially-constructed spirits, anchored to a physical keystone. The most
common sort of phantasms, ephemera, are mostly designed to operate in one of the otherworlds,
with limited capability to physically influence the mortal world. Others are emanations, with
greater agency to act in material reality but still not natively part of it.
Simulacra are Arcana designed in the image of humanity. They vary tremendously, from what
are essentially sophisticated golems projecting an illusion of normalcy, to clones, to congeries of
reanimated body-parts. A simulacrum can generally pass for human.
Horrors are Arcana constructed primarily out of dead flesh, with limited inclusions of inanimate
support materials.
Arcana and the Chosen
Different sorts of Exalted possess the wherewithal to spark the animation of different sorts of
Arcana with their Essence. Specifically:
Dragon-Blooded may create golems and ephemera. Their golems are always of strongly
elemental character, as are their phantasms.
Solar Exalted may create any sort of Arcana save for emanations and horrors.
Lunar Exalted are able to create golems and ephemera.
Sidereal Exalted possess the capacity to forge golems and ephemera.
Abyssal Exalted can craft ephemera, and may build simulacra out of dead flesh. They are the
only variety of Chosen capable of forging horrors.
Infernal Exalted are able to build golems, design simulacra, and are the only Exalted who may
craft emanations.
Heart-Eaters can build ephemera and simulacra.
Phantasm (Ephemera): Ephemera can soak lethal damage, but not aggravated.
Select either the Umbra or the Underworld. This is the phantasm's native home. It may roam
freely in its native realm, where it enjoys the natural ability to converse with the other native
denizens and to navigate without undue difficulty (in the Umbra, this amounts to having the
Charm Airt Sense, while in the Underworld it amounts to having several dots of Argos). The
phantasm may manifest in the physical world only while within one hundred yards of its
keystone, and must pay one Willpower to remain manifest for a scene. It is always aware when
its keystone is being moved or disturbed, and may pay one Willpower to immediately teleport to
its keystone's location.
If the phantasm's master speaks while within the keystone's presence, the Arcana hears her
words wherever it may be. If she commands the ephemera to attend her, it may teleport to the
keystone's location without paying any Willpower. If the keystone is destroyed, the phantasm is
also destroyed. If the ephemera is slain, it may reform a year and a day later within its keystone.
Each point of Essence fed into the keystone by its master quickens this recovery by 28 days.
Ephemera are always unmistakably phantasmal beings. Even when manifested physically, the
edges of their body seem to roil and waver like fog, or to possess other overtly "spirit-like" or
"ghostly" traits.
Phantasm (Emanation): Emanations can soak lethal damage, but not aggravated.
Select either the Umbra or the Underworld. This is the emanation's native home. It may roam
freely in its native realm, where it enjoys the natural ability to converse with the other native
denizens and to navigate without undue difficulty (in the Umbra, this amounts to having the
Charm Airt Sense, while in the Underworld it amounts to having several dots of Argos). The
phantasm may manifest in the physical world only while within one hundred yards of its
keystone, or within ten yards of its master. It must pay one Willpower to remain manifest for a
scene. It may pay one Willpower to immediately teleport to its master's or keystone's location.
If the phantasm's master the emanation's name, the Arcana hears her words wherever it may be.
If she commands the ephemera to attend her, it may teleport to her master's location and
manifest without paying any Willpower. If the keystone is destroyed, the phantasm is also
destroyed. If the emanation is slain, it may reform one hundred years later within its keystone.
Each point of Essence fed into the keystone by its master quickens this recovery by 10 years.
If the emanation's master has learned The King and the Kingdom: The Thousand and First Hell,
the phantasm may treat its master's Hell as a keystone.
Ephemera are always otherworldly, disturbing beings with demonic features of some sort that
cannot be mistaken for as human.
common sort of phantasms, ephemera, are mostly designed to operate in one of the otherworlds,
with limited capability to physically influence the mortal world. Others are emanations, with
greater agency to act in material reality but still not natively part of it.
Simulacra are Arcana designed in the image of humanity. They vary tremendously, from what
are essentially sophisticated golems projecting an illusion of normalcy, to clones, to congeries of
reanimated body-parts. A simulacrum can generally pass for human.
Horrors are Arcana constructed primarily out of dead flesh, with limited inclusions of inanimate
support materials.
Arcana and the Chosen
Different sorts of Exalted possess the wherewithal to spark the animation of different sorts of
Arcana with their Essence. Specifically:
Dragon-Blooded may create golems and ephemera. Their golems are always of strongly
elemental character, as are their phantasms.
Solar Exalted may create any sort of Arcana save for emanations and horrors.
Lunar Exalted are able to create golems and ephemera.
Sidereal Exalted possess the capacity to forge golems and ephemera.
Abyssal Exalted can craft ephemera, and may build simulacra out of dead flesh. They are the
only variety of Chosen capable of forging horrors.
Infernal Exalted are able to build golems, design simulacra, and are the only Exalted who may
craft emanations.
Heart-Eaters can build ephemera and simulacra.
Phantasm (Ephemera): Ephemera can soak lethal damage, but not aggravated.
Select either the Umbra or the Underworld. This is the phantasm's native home. It may roam
freely in its native realm, where it enjoys the natural ability to converse with the other native
denizens and to navigate without undue difficulty (in the Umbra, this amounts to having the
Charm Airt Sense, while in the Underworld it amounts to having several dots of Argos). The
phantasm may manifest in the physical world only while within one hundred yards of its
keystone, and must pay one Willpower to remain manifest for a scene. It is always aware when
its keystone is being moved or disturbed, and may pay one Willpower to immediately teleport to
its keystone's location.
If the phantasm's master speaks while within the keystone's presence, the Arcana hears her
words wherever it may be. If she commands the ephemera to attend her, it may teleport to the
keystone's location without paying any Willpower. If the keystone is destroyed, the phantasm is
also destroyed. If the ephemera is slain, it may reform a year and a day later within its keystone.
Each point of Essence fed into the keystone by its master quickens this recovery by 28 days.
Ephemera are always unmistakably phantasmal beings. Even when manifested physically, the
edges of their body seem to roil and waver like fog, or to possess other overtly "spirit-like" or
"ghostly" traits.
Phantasm (Emanation): Emanations can soak lethal damage, but not aggravated.
Select either the Umbra or the Underworld. This is the emanation's native home. It may roam
freely in its native realm, where it enjoys the natural ability to converse with the other native
denizens and to navigate without undue difficulty (in the Umbra, this amounts to having the
Charm Airt Sense, while in the Underworld it amounts to having several dots of Argos). The
phantasm may manifest in the physical world only while within one hundred yards of its
keystone, or within ten yards of its master. It must pay one Willpower to remain manifest for a
scene. It may pay one Willpower to immediately teleport to its master's or keystone's location.
If the phantasm's master the emanation's name, the Arcana hears her words wherever it may be.
If she commands the ephemera to attend her, it may teleport to her master's location and
manifest without paying any Willpower. If the keystone is destroyed, the phantasm is also
destroyed. If the emanation is slain, it may reform one hundred years later within its keystone.
Each point of Essence fed into the keystone by its master quickens this recovery by 10 years.
If the emanation's master has learned The King and the Kingdom: The Thousand and First Hell,
the phantasm may treat its master's Hell as a keystone.
Ephemera are always otherworldly, disturbing beings with demonic features of some sort that
cannot be mistaken for as human.
TL DR
One looks like a ghost or spirit, the other looks like a demon.
Thats it.
No, you are misreading that as well. I'll bold what I think is significant:
Fetish
You possess a fetish — a physical object into which a werewolf has bound a spirit. The spirit grants a number of powers to a fetish, so they are very significant to the Garou. Such things are valuable, and other Garou (or other supernatural beings) may covet them. A number of sample fetishes are presented
on p. 221.
You possess a fetish — a physical object into which a werewolf has bound a spirit. The spirit grants a number of powers to a fetish, so they are very significant to the Garou. Such things are valuable, and other Garou (or other supernatural beings) may covet them. A number of sample fetishes are presented
on p. 221.
Gaia's Chosen may use the Rite of the Fetish (see p. 213) to bind spirits into appropriately crafted and consecrated vessels. Such wondrous items are known as fetishes. The owner of a fetish can call upon the spirit within to perform specific tasks, depending on the nature of the vessel and the spirit. Given the multitude of spirits within the Tellurian and the ingenuity of the Garou, fetishes of almost any type imaginable may be created.
Werewolves hold great reverence toward fetishes, treating them as honored allies rather than mere tools. Such is the nature of the pact that binds spirits into fetishes; they are obligated to serve the Garou only as long as they are respected in return. It is possible to bind a spirit against its will, but these fetishes tend to be rebellious, and most Garou consider them cursed.
Of course, the servants of the Wyrm bind Banes into horrifying fetishes of their own...
The majority of fetishes are crafted from natural materials (wood, hide, bone, clay), although this is more a preference of most spirits than a hard rule — Glass Walkers, in particular, tend to bind spirits that prefer more modern, technological housing. Few fetishes are nondescript; Garou adorn them with carved river stones, feathers, beads, and other markings to honor and appease the spirit within.
To use a fetish, the Garou must first attune herself to it by making a Gnosis roll. The difficulty for this roll is the fetish's Gnosis rating. Attunement establishes a spiritual bond between fetish and user, enabling the Garou to take the fetish anywhere in the Tellurian and providing instinctive understanding of the fetish's powers. Only a single success is required to attune to the fetish; failure indicates that the fetish has rejected the character. Another roll may not be attempted until the werewolf has somehow reached accord with the resident spirit. Attunement also effectively "dedicates" a fetish to its wielder, as though the Rite of Talisman Dedication had been performed on it. Since fetishes have their own Gnosis, an attuned fetish doesn't count against the maximum number of objects a werewolf can have dedicated to him.
Each time the wielder wishes to use one of the fetish's powers, the player must make a Gnosis roll (difficulty equal to the fetish's Gnosis rating) to "activate" the power. Alternatively, she may simply spend a Gnosis point to activate the power automatically. Rage may not be spent during the same turn in which a fetish is activated.
A list of sample fetishes follows:
Werewolves hold great reverence toward fetishes, treating them as honored allies rather than mere tools. Such is the nature of the pact that binds spirits into fetishes; they are obligated to serve the Garou only as long as they are respected in return. It is possible to bind a spirit against its will, but these fetishes tend to be rebellious, and most Garou consider them cursed.
Of course, the servants of the Wyrm bind Banes into horrifying fetishes of their own...
The majority of fetishes are crafted from natural materials (wood, hide, bone, clay), although this is more a preference of most spirits than a hard rule — Glass Walkers, in particular, tend to bind spirits that prefer more modern, technological housing. Few fetishes are nondescript; Garou adorn them with carved river stones, feathers, beads, and other markings to honor and appease the spirit within.
To use a fetish, the Garou must first attune herself to it by making a Gnosis roll. The difficulty for this roll is the fetish's Gnosis rating. Attunement establishes a spiritual bond between fetish and user, enabling the Garou to take the fetish anywhere in the Tellurian and providing instinctive understanding of the fetish's powers. Only a single success is required to attune to the fetish; failure indicates that the fetish has rejected the character. Another roll may not be attempted until the werewolf has somehow reached accord with the resident spirit. Attunement also effectively "dedicates" a fetish to its wielder, as though the Rite of Talisman Dedication had been performed on it. Since fetishes have their own Gnosis, an attuned fetish doesn't count against the maximum number of objects a werewolf can have dedicated to him.
Each time the wielder wishes to use one of the fetish's powers, the player must make a Gnosis roll (difficulty equal to the fetish's Gnosis rating) to "activate" the power. Alternatively, she may simply spend a Gnosis point to activate the power automatically. Rage may not be spent during the same turn in which a fetish is activated.
A list of sample fetishes follows:
The activation of the fetish is by the wielder; the spirits sole decision is whether to attune a given user or not in the first place.
Indeed, some fetishes have multiple spirits inside them IIRC correctly.
Thats why, for those fetishes that give the benefits of a Gift, the rolls are based on the wielder's stats, not those of the spirit.
As for the other part of your argument, may I draw your attention to this fetish?
Keeping unauthorized spirits out of designated areas is something that you can do with a Level 3 fetish in W20.
So we're not talking something new here.
Doesnt particularly matter in this case anyway.
A child is not equipped to make the kinds of decisions a principal needs to make, nor is the bodyguard empowered to make those decisions for several years without executive oversight. So the keystone cant be on the child, nor can the child be its master.
Assuming we're doing master/owner stuff with a sapient-construct anyway.
No, you're mistaken.
The point of a bodyguard is the safety of the principal. Always.
The first rule of protection is deterrence, to prevent a confrontation happening in the first place by making ill-doers rethink.
The second is extraction, to get the principal away if a confrontation happens at all.
Thats not whats necessary for a guardian construct.
You've gone past necessary to want. And a want that has significant drawbacks with regards to both maintaining protective coverage and allowing the child live a life.
In my opinion, at least.
Fetish or prodigy according to the rules.
Prodigy is probably a better call I think, but you start running into material issues for making each one under the current rules.
But my ultimate point is simple:
A phantasm is the wrong type of construct for this task. You either commit to a different type of Arcana (Golem or Simulacrum) with the costs involved, or an animal fomor, or just a very smart dog.
Thats my two cents.
My dude, Molly was targeted by an agent of Nemesis/the Outsiders when she was still a teenage fledgeling wizard talent with no swag. Do you think that its going to stop now?
Didnt think so.
Its not paranoia when they are actually out to get you.
They are facing the book protagonist, of course they are losing.
But the White God didnt put three angels in Swords to chase scrubs around; every old Denarian we see is almost invariably a deadly competent evildoer. If they have several centuries under their belt, they've survived a life on the run with several generations of agents of the White God coming for them.
Even Quintus Cassius, for all he didnt do much onscreen, was more than 1600 years old.
You dont get that old in this business without being competent at what you do, not with three Swords out for your head.
Our foci arent unlimited. Every one we burn is gone.
Yes.
Path Sorcery Countermagic is 3xp per type of magic, for a total of 12xp for all 4x.
And if the QM allows us to buy Ancient Sorcery Countermagic, thats 10xp.
But we dont have anything to prove, and they have no reasonable way of asking us to demonstrate it.