Hey i have a question in regards to Dresden files lore and how this translates into this crossover. Is the White God in dresden files the God of all abrahamic religions at the same time or do three different ones run around and how is this handled in this cross?
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Frankly the best part, for Molly, is that Reds don't seem to have anyone like Malks on their side. Even ignoring the madness shenanigans combination of Auspex and Obfuscation is something that can ruin all the plans.
As far as I understand that's exactly the kind of question Uriel asked Molly not to use the Crown on.
According to Michael who is a pretty good source on these sort of things He is the same God.
Nah, this one is fine, it is the kind of question Knights have been asking for as long as there have been Knights. They are selected from all sorts of religious backgrounds... including at least one atheist, Sanya who we just saw in an interlude.
Last edited:
- Location
- Canada
I meant rank-wise, as in the Red King is the head cheese as all Antediluvians would be if they managed to stop munching their subordinates. I'm aware he isn't on the same power level, but I was more asking about the rank equivalencies rather than the power levels of each Red Court Noble rank.
We know the Red King is the leader, currently unchallenged but still needs to be wary of someone of Arianna's level managing a coalition to coup him. The Lords of Outer Night are below him in rank but don't actually participate in the day-to-day affairs and not even the War so far as we know. Arianna is a Duchess, the third tier of nobility and the most active, still pretty powerful in her own terms but very much killable by the Blackstaff dropping a satellite or the White Council's hitman going off.
Just trying to brainstorm ideas about how much chaos Arianna's death has caused and if we or the White Council could take advantage of it. Worst case scenario, a less competent and powerful Duke/Duchess takes her place, which is still a plus. It would be better if a Lord or the Red King came out into the field and made themselves vulnerable for assassination, but that's probably too much to hope for.
We know the Red King is the leader, currently unchallenged but still needs to be wary of someone of Arianna's level managing a coalition to coup him. The Lords of Outer Night are below him in rank but don't actually participate in the day-to-day affairs and not even the War so far as we know. Arianna is a Duchess, the third tier of nobility and the most active, still pretty powerful in her own terms but very much killable by the Blackstaff dropping a satellite or the White Council's hitman going off.
Just trying to brainstorm ideas about how much chaos Arianna's death has caused and if we or the White Council could take advantage of it. Worst case scenario, a less competent and powerful Duke/Duchess takes her place, which is still a plus. It would be better if a Lord or the Red King came out into the field and made themselves vulnerable for assassination, but that's probably too much to hope for.
A small note on this, the reason those vampires have generation numbers on them is to establish how powerful they are and how magical their corpses are for the purposes of crafting.
The maggot food charm has its own issues, among them being that it cannot do what you think it can.
It has a hard cap which we are currently below, but it is a painfully low one. It would barely take much movement at all to be in this same situation again.
As a medium term fix white vamps can learn feeding techniques from each other after they fledge. As we are dealing with full vamps here they can learn from each other and switch food sources directly.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
We are no where close to having more then 100x our essence level of vampires working under us. If that is what you are referring to and that isn't a hard cap in any case it would just require us to cast more often.
Last edited:
You're taller about inflicting mind control smoothies on people for convenience. Convenience that ultimately translates to an AP cost, which isn't exactly something we have in abundance itself.
The maggots charm has significant drawbacks, the disagreement within this thread where we have maximum reason to excuse it is proof enough of that. That it's also a temporary fix is just further proof that it isn't worth our time or energy.
It's more effective to use retraining and one of the accessible alchemical alternatives, which neither violate people's brains or make us bottleneck on the sustainable vampire population. A bottleneck currently considerably lower than the number that currently exists and could feasibly come into our area of influence.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I am talking about reducing the total amount of mind control. So don't pretend you are talking from moral high ground. Especially when the mind control in question is inflicting despair.
And you are saying it's not convenient which makes you so very inconsistent and inconsiderate.
Any alchemist solution would obviously be easier to do with the maggots already in hand as well.
Last edited:
- Location
- Australia
@Yog - I like your answer, however I fear we aren't addressing an important implication the Expansionists and others within the Wheel will be confronted by with and troubled by due to ghost immigration - if they have afterlives or reincarnation systems of their own, then why do ghosts exist and linger on?
This could probably be neatly explained (although correct me if I'm incorrect in my cosmological/metaphysical understanding about how and why ghosts form and persist) as resulting from these ghosts/spirits/souls, whether due to strong attachment to persevering the continuity of their ego/consciousness/soul/self, strong residual trauma, desires, or experiences they aren't ready to or don't want to move on and away from, lingering uncertainty as to the true fate that awaits them after death (or dislike/dissatisfaction in what they believe/suspect that fate to be) - these departed desire and would benefit from the certainty and security which the Wheel provides, wishing to experience more of life in a manner they can know with certainty is in many respects comparable to their own experience of existence and existing, while safe in the guarantee they cannot be cruelly nigh-randomly ripped away from such life again, and would only depart once more upon their own volition and terms.
Basically, explaining to the populace reasons why those outside the Wheel might wish to join it and would otherwise linger on in a often less than ideal proximation of their prior existence (ghosthood), and what cosmological "niche" the properties and characteristics of the Wheel fulfil for such people, as to reassure the Expansionists and other groups/movements/faiths/schools of thought that, at least to our own knowledge and understanding, the existence of such ghosts does not inherently imply that afterlives and/or reincarnation beyond the Wheel is horrifically dysfunctional, having "abandoned" these souls, or does not exist.
- Location
- washington
[x] Yog
I'm gonna note the white god here is probably more than just a Christian thing. Butcher said that stuff like a Hindu tree can be as holy as any Christian thing and described God with an elephant parable. The way we see them we call them an elephant but from our perspective an elephant may as well just be the legs of the elephant and we call it an elephant while this is true there's more to the elephant.
Not to mention they're called the white god not the abrahamic God even though they are the latter. Not to mention gods of various pantheons don't debate their the creator and always have been and reality didn't retroactively make them the creator in this setting they always were according to butcher. Plus gods seem to have various faces and forms things going on I'm unsure it's any different for the white god especially with the elephant parable.
I'm gonna note the white god here is probably more than just a Christian thing. Butcher said that stuff like a Hindu tree can be as holy as any Christian thing and described God with an elephant parable. The way we see them we call them an elephant but from our perspective an elephant may as well just be the legs of the elephant and we call it an elephant while this is true there's more to the elephant.
Not to mention they're called the white god not the abrahamic God even though they are the latter. Not to mention gods of various pantheons don't debate their the creator and always have been and reality didn't retroactively make them the creator in this setting they always were according to butcher. Plus gods seem to have various faces and forms things going on I'm unsure it's any different for the white god especially with the elephant parable.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
No matter what else we say we should make a point of commending the city of endings on their perfect no ghost record. In fact I might even suggest that they put a giant Zero Ghosts produced sign up somewhere prominent until their streak is broken.
[X][Stunt]"Before anything else I wish to commend you on your zero ghosts produced record. The fact that you don't know what a ghost is is simply proof that the city of endings has done a fantastical job. However not all places are so well run and we are going to be picking up the slack."
[X] Keep to the line of established orthodoxy, what is beyond Passage is unknown even to you
-[x]I promised the White God not to look into it, but I can give you some conjure as well as a few known cases.
[X][Stunt]"Before anything else I wish to commend you on your zero ghosts produced record. The fact that you don't know what a ghost is is simply proof that the city of endings has done a fantastical job. However not all places are so well run and we are going to be picking up the slack."
[X] Keep to the line of established orthodoxy, what is beyond Passage is unknown even to you
-[x]I promised the White God not to look into it, but I can give you some conjure as well as a few known cases.
Last edited:
- Location
- washington
In fairness thats like congratulating them for not breaking gravity.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
When you consider the length of our Kingdom History and the specular failures that that happened in DF history not to mention Exalted history it is worth a congratulations. Breaking gravity and things like it has totally happened.
- Location
- washington
Also in fairness our realm is a literal afterlife we should probably go about telling people that.
- Location
- At Home
So, out of character, Exalted Lore-wise, why was it important to have the human souls set up like that?
We have a 'laugh' reaction, next we need a 'scared' one.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Exalted Lore-wise humans were designed to be optimized for worship. Part of that was being recyclable when they worn out. So the more expensive* parts auto detach and go to the afterlife for reprocessing.
*maybe not the right word. Harder to make? Made out of valuable material? None biodegradable?
Last edited:
I don't think they are asking about ghosts for now - they don't know what ghosts are, those, and necromancy, are completely unknown in our Courts. In a cosmological sense, as I understand it (and please someone correct me if I am wrong), ghosts are what happens in the absence of "small wheel" (Endless torment reincarnation feature of reality) to people who really, really want to stay alive.
It is a good idea to explain ghosts and why Lydia wishes them to immigrate that makes it look like Courts are a better organized version of reality in at least this aspect. It is a propaganda coup, as it makes us look good - "look how well I am taking care of you by designing this reality in this way. The Wheel is not perfect, and I don't have all the answers, but it's better than its absence".
Since a lot of people voted for me, before changing anything, I have to ask - would there be objections if I added this under Lydia's involvement sub-section
--[] Provide an explanation for what a ghost is, and why they might arise in the absence of the Wheel of Life, and how you, together with Lydia, desire to help those lingering on, to benefit from the Wheel, by at least temporarily joining your Courts
? Something like this.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I think that the stunt I wrote sums up the ghost situation fairly well.
I don't mind adding it, but there's an important point - they don't know what ghosts are, since they never encountered them, and they are not really possible under our universal setup; you'd have to very actively try to break the system for them to arise.
- Location
- washington
I don't mind and I don't think anyone else would.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Considering what we are planning to do I can't imagine any version of the vote that doesn't include an explanation of what ghosts are. It's going to happen unless we actively vote against it and if we did that DP is going to scratch his head wondering what we are thinking.