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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Any ideas for our first prodigies? They seem easier to break into than splendors, for all that they're simultaneously more limited and less well defined.

I think it might be a good place to start for Daniel. Not for combat directly, but something to let him feel like he's contributing so he won't go on a suicidal adventure.

I'm thinking a set of items pointed at two different purposes. one to act as magical training aids, since all DF humans have at least little juice and magic is effected by how much you use those areas of your soul, and a second to help support remote divination. Not future sight, but detecting things happening in the present.

Once we have the paranet up managing the people and monitoring for security events will be important issues, and they're things you don't need to be an exalt to meaningfully contribute to.

Basically set him up following the Mission Control trope.

We sort of use cyber devils for that now, but we haven't really invested in it past the basics and they have limits. Set up a suite of cyber assistants in specialized hardware for different tasks, then put him in charge of directing them and using the items we give him to gather context to enhance their work.

At the start his position would be fairly superficial, but as we collect more people it'd become more important even if his magic skills didn't grow.

Cyber devils are bad a social and don't have a lot of human context. We could get a lot of use out of minor talents with information gathering abilities, but not if they can't coordinate effectively. Having a nucleus could be helpful.
 
Goldfish said:
If we do crash the plane into the ocean, wouldn't RVD make it very simple for Molly to monitor the search for it and subsequent investigation if it's eventually found?

IIRC, Molly can basically perceive anywhere within a body of water she is dispersed into as if she were present and witnessing it with her own eyes? If the Reds send Fomor, we could learn of it, if no one ever finds it, we would know, etc.
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I think we have established this before but in any case: Sadly Molly cannot sense everything a body of water she gets into with RVD, she has enough of a sense to aim where she emerges, but not complex sensory feedback.
 
DragonParadox said:
I think we have established this before but in any case: Sadly Molly cannot sense everything a body of water she gets into with RVD, she has enough of a sense to aim where she emerges, but not complex sensory feedback.
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I think that should go in the rules post, since the charm only specifies that we can see what's happening nearby without defining what that means.

For my part I was assuming some mix of BSM and RVD's visual components let us see everything up in and around the target liquid to this point.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Also, the ritual stuff is getting sort of exaggerated. They could and would get interrogated, but just rescuing someone doesn't turn them into a good thaumaturgical link as far as DF magic is concerned.
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Maybe not scrying, but "drink someone's blood to read their memories" seems like a kind of magic Red Court would have.
BronzeTongue said:
The vote is on how we deal with immediate transportation. Do we put everyone in the FCF and deal with the consequences of letting them out again, or only put in the red and half red (pink?) vampires since they can't leave it without being found anyway and work out a mundane way to get the mortals to safety.
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I think it's better to get mortals in too. Leaving aside how they might also be trackable, it's easier to organize protective custody. And we don't have an easy way to both let them away and destroy the plane.

Speaking of the plane - anyone thinks we should try to frame someone else for the attack? Black court? Fomor?
 
What if Molly lands the plane on the FCF and then immediately yeets prisoners and hostages to the connected place on the Earth? This way there won't be any problems with the possible interrogations of hostages. I think we should also leave the custody of the people to St. Gilles, as they have experience with rehabilitation and witness protection of Rhampires' victims and it will help us to establish diplomatic relations with the Brotherhood.
 
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Yog said:
Maybe not scrying, but "drink someone's blood to read their memories" seems like a kind of magic Red Court would have
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That's just better interrogation, they can't actually get more information than the subject has with that sort of thing.

Not that I want to leave them subject to it, but it's worth noting the likely limits here.
Yog said:
I think it's better to get mortals in too. Leaving aside how they might also be trackable, it's easier to organize protective custody. And we don't have an easy way to both let them away and destroy the plane.

Speaking of the plane - anyone thinks we should try to frame someone else for the attack? Black court? Fomor?
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The default vote here is to pop them in and out again, because Molly won't whisk them away for years like she's in a faerie tale on her own initiative. That's why we got a warning about them leaking information if we choose that option.

I agree that keeping them in our hell is a better idea, but if we're going to let them in at all we should get their buy in now instead of letting them inside and then dealing with it.

If you want to keep them medium to long term I think it needs to be explicitly added to the vote, along with a tactic for convincing them to agree.
 
[X] Between Auspicious Wings of Spite's piloting skills, your telekinesis and Broken Seeker's air magic you're sure you can land the jet on a stretch of highway in the desert, take it apart and burry it. Maybe you will have a use for it later.
 
Hey dp how does our signature work with places where location really really matters mystically? Cause we know red court get a huge power boost in their place of power, can Mab contest it if say we are in arctis tor, how much does it really affect things on a permanent basis? Like what happens if someone place of power basically gets turned from their place of power to not that in any sense of the word? What about beings so intrinsically tied to said things do they just die?

I'd ask demonreach as one of the few I know of like that but their probably also one of the few that almost definitely have defenses against this since the closer to the island the more absolute they are to the point they'd kick mabs ass in the center or whatever. Also you know being a place of time space magic bullshit and plenty of the beings trapped in almost definitely don't react to space/time normally.
 
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[X] Between Auspicious Wings of Spite's piloting skills, your telekinesis and Broken Seeker's air magic you're sure you can land the jet on a stretch of highway in the desert, take it apart and burry it. Maybe you will have a use for it later.
 
[X] Bring everyone, except Broken Seeker into the Fivefold Courts, strip everything useful or valuable from the plane, then have it crash into the ocean
 
firefrog600 said:
Hey dp how does our signature work with places where location really really matters mystically? Cause we know red court get a huge power boost in their place of power, can Mab contest it if say we are in arctis tor, how much does it really affect things on a permanent basis? Like what happens if someone place of power basically gets turned from their place of power to not that in any sense of the word? What about beings so intrinsically tied to said things do they just die?

I'd ask demonreach as one of the few I know of like that but their probably also one of the few that almost definitely have defenses against this since the closer to the island the more absolute they are to the point they'd kick mabs ass in the center or whatever. Also you know being a place of time space magic bullshit and plenty of the beings trapped in almost definitely don't react to space/time normally.
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It works unless the other side has the equivalent of a perfect defense on the location. Of all the important locations she has been too Molly knows that Arctris Tor does not have such a protection passively since at the moment of her Exaltation the actual shard itself being driven around by Usum was able to warp tine in order to get you empowered in less than the usual three days. Now as to what would happen if you tried to pull that stuff with Mab there Molly honestly does not know.
 
Cavalar said:
If Molly will be able to return to Earth with the hostages immediately, what they can tell about her Hell?
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That's a fair point, part of my assumption here was that they'd have some level of engagement. Though it's worth noting that Uriel's intellectus got an auto update as soon as mortals who knew something left the area he wasn't allowed to look at.

Then again, we gave the council a whole introduction in a bar a few days ago, so that ship has already sailed in a lot of ways.

The biggest things they could give away are the conditions Molly needs to move people around and any incidental details that the big guys already know but the middle level players like the red court would struggle learning since they can't cheat that hard.

Anyone who goes in is probably going to be even more of a target until the FCF are more well known though, on the off chance they did see something valuable.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I agree that keeping them in our hell is a better idea, but if we're going to let them in at all we should get their buy in now instead of letting them inside and then dealing with it.
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To be honest that's arguable on the basis of a) not informing anyone watching this now or afterwards (using pstcognition) about where we are taking them and for how long, b) them not being in their right mind or having relevant information.

There's a strong case for protective custody and forced rehabilitation. They are essentially drug addicts who are also under threat by a nationstate level force.
 
[X] Bring everyone, except Broken Seeker into the Fivefold Courts, strip everything useful or valuable from the plane, then have it crash into the ocean

Kill the plane and have fun doing it. We're convincing a pod of dolphins that its the end of the world tonight.
 
Artemis1992 said:
It does ensure that he will be very well prepared when he eventually comes after us though.
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But will he? Part of staying in the game so long is knowing when to fold them. If danger level seems too high I don't see why he would make the attempt. Maybe after waiting for someone else to wear us down first but that seems unlikley.

[X] Bring everyone, except Broken Seeker into the Fivefold Courts, strip everything useful or valuable from the plane, then have it crash into the ocean

I hope ya'll won't vote to let them run around on Earth afterwords. Maybe after a decade like BronzeTongue suggested. At that point it won't matter but otherwise I'm worried about what sort of magic curious people can use, wizards or otherwise, on those people if we bring them out to learn about the FC.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Any ideas for our first prodigies? They seem easier to break into than splendors, for all that they're simultaneously more limited and less well defined.

I think it might be a good place to start for Daniel. Not for combat directly, but something to let him feel like he's contributing so he won't go on a suicidal adventure.

I'm thinking a set of items pointed at two different purposes. one to act as magical training aids, since all DF humans have at least little juice and magic is effected by how much you use those areas of your soul, and a second to help support remote divination. Not future sight, but detecting things happening in the present.

Once we have the paranet up managing the people and monitoring for security events will be important issues, and they're things you don't need to be an exalt to meaningfully contribute to.

Basically set him up following the Mission Control trope.

We sort of use cyber devils for that now, but we haven't really invested in it past the basics and they have limits. Set up a suite of cyber assistants in specialized hardware for different tasks, then put him in charge of directing them and using the items we give him to gather context to enhance their work.

At the start his position would be fairly superficial, but as we collect more people it'd become more important even if his magic skills didn't grow.

Cyber devils are bad a social and don't have a lot of human context. We could get a lot of use out of minor talents with information gathering abilities, but not if they can't coordinate effectively. Having a nucleus could be helpful.
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I haven't the slightest idea how enchanting works in the system(s) we're using.

How feasible would it be to create a healing item? Healing potions are all well and good, but they're limited by prep and storage time.

Or how about a vampiric weapon, which heals the wielded based on damage they do? We've got lots of Rampire corpses and captives to use for thematically appropriate crafting resources...
 
BronzeTongue said:
Maybe we could talk to the mortals first?
I don't really want to take them into our hell if they're going to want to leave in the near future, but if Sofia is any example the red court deliberately preyed on the vulnerable and probably destroyed what little they had before being taken.

Some of them might want to come back, but it's possible that our collection is primarily composed of people who would take a fresh start somewhere the red court can never reach them or would otherwise agree to spend a decade or so there at minimum but retain the right to return after that. By that point basic information shouldn't be an issue, and honestly I'd be more concerned about them petitioning for whoever they'd come back for being allowed to join them than actually wanting to leave.

The more of them that take that deal the fewer we have to transport the mundane way.
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Not really an option for them, regardless of what they want.
Their lives in Mexico or any part of Latin America are at an end.

Its impossible for them to return or attempt to reinsert themselves at any level of their pre-existing lives; the Red Court will find, interrogate and kill them afterwards. And between Red Court expansionism and the US's immigration policy, North America isnt a viable alternative location either.

The only institution on Earth that we know OOC has a relocation program for supernatural victims is the Catholic Church, and they have their financial and geographic limits; cant just move people between nation states.
And problems with infiltrators.

Their best chances now are basically to be considered dead or beyond reach.

Furthermore, judging by Sofia, many, if not all of the mortals are addicted to vampire venom.
Thats going to require detox and healing; we have the resources to truncate that to days or weeks instead of months and years, but the physical issues are just gonna be part of it.

DragonParadox said:
In certain ways, but not in all, the two worlds had different development paths.
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Yzarc said:
Yeah. They have better planes BUT the build and designing aspect will help.
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We currently have a SUTRA with advanced software capabilities plugged in to the Internet right now.
It can perform industrial espionage on a massive scale if thats a priority, and we can bring over more at need; if there's something they really want, they can get.

Remember how Chinese hackers were supposed to have hacked and stolen elements of the US F-35 program to give them a leg up on their own stealth fighter program?
That was for a classified military aircraft program, and it was done with mundane techniques.

Our world has a tech base decades in advance, especially in electronics and comptech; we can do worse. Or better.

A civilian airliner like the A320 is operated by *checks* 60 airlines around the world as of 2022. ~10,000 aircraft.
There's really nothing there thats classified. Trade secrets but not classified. And we dont care about IP law.
Not that we need it anyway.

Artemis1992 said:
Our Hell probably doesn't have better planes.
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No, we definitely have better planes.

Too much of a military and logistics advantage not to have the ability to move military formations and supplies around, as well as medevac and emergency transport. Teams and formations out in the wilds do not have rail links to their locations, and multiple sorcerers with Conveyance dont match the cargolift of one not!C130 with 20 tons of supplies.

Or a not!Mriya with >250 tons of cargo.

Not to mention that it avoids the issues of establishing permanent infrastructure through land claimed by some major spirit or other.
We might not have better(or any) civilian airliners for mass transit, because we invested in different civilian infrastructure.
Thats not the same thing as not having better planes.

Earth-Destroyer said:
A middle eastern nations captured a US drone a decade or so ago, and now they are the foremost drone power in that part of the world. The amount of tech in a full plane is an insane amount of different stuff. Material production, sensors, flight characteristics, hydraulic, etc a modern plane represent hundreds of thousands, of man hours from starting design, mining material, to finished product.
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This is not true, by the way.
Yes, they did capture a US jet-powered stealth drone in 2011. No, it didnt kickstart their drone industry.
The Iranian drone program dates back to 1985.

The Iranians have a bona fide aerospace industry, with genuinely gifted engineers, and have been iterating on this stuff for decades, with everything from drones with commercially available lawnmower engines to cruise missiles to actually locally produced F-5 fighter jet knockoffs.

We have better materials science.
Better computer tech and software. Better sensors. And an educated population thats an order of magnitude bigger than the United States to actually implement a lot of this stuff.

A commercially available airliner affords us zero insights that we dont already have and cant acquire by basically hooking a SUTRA up to the Internet.
 
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uju32 said:
Not really an option for them, regardless of what they want.
Their lives in Mexico or any part of Latin America are at an end.

Its impossible for them to return or attempt to reinsert themselves at any level of their pre-existing lives; the Red Court will find, interrogate and kill them afterwards. And between Red Court expansionism and the US's immigration policy, North America isnt a viable alternative location either.

The only institution on Earth that we know OOC has a relocation program for supernatural victims is the Catholic Church, and they have their financial and geographic limits; cant just move people between nation states.
And problems with infiltrators.

Their best chances now are basically to be considered dead or beyond reach.

Furthermore, judging by Sofia, many, if not all of the mortals are addicted to vampire venom.
Thats going to require detox and healing; we have the resources to truncate that to days or weeks instead of months and years, but the physical issues are just gonna be part of it.



We currently have a SUTRA with advanced software capabilities plugged in to the Internet right now.
It can perform industrial espionage on a massive scale if thats a priority, and we can bring over more at need; if there's something they really want, they can get.

Remember how Chinese hackers were supposed to have hacked and stolen elements of the US F-35 program to give them a leg up on their own stealth fighter program?
That was for a classified military aircraft program, and it was done with mundane techniques.

Our world has a tech base decades in advance, especially in electronics and comptech; we can do worse. Or better.

A civilian airliner like the A320 is operated by *checks* 60 airlines around the world as of 2022. ~10,000 aircraft.
There's really nothing there thats classified. Trade secrets but not classified. And we dont care about IP law.
Not that we need it anyway.


No, we definitely have better planes.

Too much of a military and logistics advantage not to have the ability to move military formations and supplies around, as well as medevac and emergency transport. Teams and formations out in the wilds do not have rail links to their locations, and multiple sorcerers with Conveyance dont match the cargolift of one not!C130 with 20 tons of supplies.

Or a not!Mriya with >250 tons of cargo.

Not to mention that it avoids the issues of establishing permanent infrastructure through land claimed by some major spirit or other.
We might not have better(or any) civilian airliners for mass transit, because we invested in different civilian infrastructure.
Thats not the same thing as not having better planes.


This is not true, by the way.
Yes, they did capture a US jet-powered stealth drone in 2011. No, it didnt kickstart their drone industry.
The Iranian drone program dates back to 1985.

The Iranians have a bona fide aerospace industry, with genuinely gifted engineers, and have been iterating on this stuff for decades, with everything from drones with commercially available lawnmower engines to cruise missiles to actually locally produced F-5 fighter jet knockoffs.

We have better materials science.
Better computer tech and software. Better sensors. And an educated population thats an order of magnitude bigger than the United States to actually implement a lot of this stuff.

A commercially available airliner affords us zero insights that we dont already have and cant acquire by basically hooking a SUTRA up to the Internet.
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I'll mention its at least a century or two in advance of real world tech uju not decades. Also you know more scifi-ish than the real world is likely to be its more like what people in the 1920s thought the year 2000 would be like to some degree than what real world is likely to do. Given the idea of a tech tree is a myth so different development paths even if some are shared. Its more like cyberpunk tech than what the real world will likely be but still well ahead of mere decades of advancement.
 
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