Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

May I ask why, if you have the time to explain?

Because you are lying to people who are allies of the White Council, and who have unknown information gathering abilities.
This is the sort of thing that does permanent future damage to our reputation and our ability to do business.
As in, its literally better to say nothing than to lie.
 
[X] Plan Deflection

You're open with people you trust. You're honest with people you want to build trust with. We don't trust each other yet, but I hope for us to eventually. So, not answering everything, but not directly lying or misleading just yet. Also, setting up future communications.
 
@DragonParadox
Not mine, but you might find it interesting:

Jim Butcher Dragoncon 2023 Transcript
Audience questions are bolded, answers are plain
Transcript said:
My version in case we grabbed anything different

What is Mac?- he's a bartender! A fair brewer. I mean, stay tuned... sputtering I'm not just going to answer something like that!!

We know you don't mind killing people, is there anyone you regret letting live?- no because as long as they're alive you can always kill them! That's always an option! And it's not that I like killing ones you love, it's that I enjoy torturing you, and you can't do that physically, so...

Anyone you regret killing off?- I try not to look back, I just step over the bodies. I have a few I regret in CA - I kinda regret killing Cirai but I'd have had to do it worse later if I hadn't.
Friend Jim Butcher Author on LoL if you want to play with him

If Harry had a D&D character post BG, what would he be now?- wizard with 18 Con 16 int, I rolled him when I was making the character. 18 Con made me know he would be beaten up a lot when I saw that. New D&D/Baldurs Gate he has the bar fighting technique

Have Wizards ever controlled a nation?- Lots of Egypt, huge control in Rome (fell largely due to wizard duels), Camelot time they tried and OG Merlin formed White Council to try to pull wizards out of it, with middling success. Now they're more like a corporation, almost wizard black rock

How does Mouse cheat?-Constantly. He's a white chess piece, but he's grown up with a guy who swims in gray so as a result he's not quite as pure as he should be. Monks dealing with him nowadays would be horrified. He's more results driven now, he doesn't mind breaking the rules if it makes Maggie happy

What was Mab like before Mab?-I'm not talking about that. I'll tell you this much - she was angry

Have you work shopped a story in D&D? Specifically Sue?- no but Cinder Spires was Warhammer.
Gming RPGs has made him a better writer, unknown if the reverse is true

Is it possible for a mortal to be cured of nfection like Lea was?- Maybe? I have to think about that one. "(Audience) Butters could do it!" Laughter

Hardest plot decision in DF?- which path to take in Changes. If he went Darkhallow it would have been awesome because a bunch of people would have died and he would have kept them on as revenants. Didn't know what was going to happen until he was in it. Decided on Mab because it tortured Molly the most. When in doubt, rely on your inner sadist. You don't have to be a sadist to be a writer, but it really helps!

Any historical people been part of the senior council secretly?- no, they have to stand apart from the world and guide the white council away from that sort of thing. That said, going back in history there's been a lot of different people thru history that have been involved in things - Washington was the Knight of Hope, that's what got people through Valley Forge. Lots of things like that.
(AI tangent that was interesting but I'm not transcribing it all)

Was having a cat as a second in cinder spires accomplishing what Harry wanted when he said he wanted Mister as his second?-Nope, just trying to make cat people on the Internet happy... Then I got a cat and he's a jerk but I love him.

Did you get emotional/cry writing what you did to us last book? - did I get emotional? evil laugh I mean technically... I could hear the screams of the fans echoing from the future when they read it! But I mean yeah, they're quasi-real to me because I'm so involved with them, so yeah... God, yeah. Thank god I've had some bad things happen to me because otherwise how could I do these things to Harry?

Was it Ace that blew up Murphy's car in White Knight?- Lemme think. It's a detail, I'm trying to remember... Damn, sorry. Problem is every version of the book has about eleven different versions for me. (list of slightly different versions) So the events are kinda this cloud of parallel reality and it's hard to keep track. I'm sure I'll get caught up when Harry breaks the laws of traveling time. I really just planned the time travel book so I could fix things I assumed I would mess up. (something about Mirror Mirror I didn't catch)

What topics do Uriel and Odin discuss in their yearly lunch?- Uriel exists across the entire spectrum of possibility in the multiverse. They're all the same everywhere, he's just as exasperated in all of them. Vadderung is also across a large spectrum, but he's a different individual in each. Uriel finds the consistency comforting. Vadderung is one of few beings with the right perspective. Also, they talk about the eternal light/dark war.

Examples of Uriel/Ferrovax exerting their whole power?- Well, last book for a dragon. We're definitely doing a dragon vs wizard fight (cheers) you're not getting out of a fantasy series there. Dragons are on the same scale as titans. If titans were the construction crew, dragons were their bulldozers. If a dragon got really upset, he could tear about the universe he existed in which would admittedly be counter intuitive unless he's really nihilistic. Uriel is constrained by the above, dragons are constrained because they need somewhere to stand.

Valkyrie code name was foreshadowing in BG, is Booster Gold also doing the same for Dresden swimming against time?- Wow, first off props for recognizing Booster Gold. What I can/will say is Murphy's story isn't over. It is and it isn't. Yeah, she'd be a really cute Valkyrie

Has king Arthur made an unannounced appearance in Dresden?- Yes. Dun -dun-dun-duh. In Dresden Files, Arthur will return to Britain in its darkest hour. (Gasps) RIGHT?!?

Have you considered writing/releasing the other versions of Changes?- Maybe, but that sounds great for fan fiction. Not that I know anything about fan fiction existing, so I don't have to defend my copyright.

Have you considered Alternate Universe theory for Dresden?- There's going to be. In mirror mirror. One choice different. evil giggles it's awful. Sorta inspired by next to last episode of Stargate Season 1 if anyone's seen it.

Did the White Council have anything to do with the missing legion in Codex Alera?- Oh! WELL THEY DO NOW!!

Has there been a book/show that's canon to Dresden Files?- Not directly. Supernatural could be kinda sideways on it, through season 5. supernatural tangent on later seasons Dresden and Dean would get along great. Sam would be bitter about being in the back seat. Buffy could be Dresden adjacent. Scooby Doo, easily. Some harried warden in the background figuring out how to get the kids out of trouble. Monster Hunter universe from Correa.

Was it a choice to use a different reader for Ghost Story or was Marsters not available?-Availability, tight deadlines, etc.

Have you ever looked into Dresden fan fiction and if so what is your favorite?- Fan fiction? What's that? My niece did make me water MLP to understand the crossover though.

Is The White God the literal creator of the universe?- Yep. That being isn't super involved because free will is important, but occasionally he finds someone to work through and then they get a cool sword.

What's been the death with the biggest reader outrage?- sarcastic Let me think... Oh my god, some of the looks I got, especially from my blonde readers!

Will we ever learn more about Jade Court?- uhh... Yes and no. They pretty much stick to and run things in the Yangtze River Valley. They occasionally send out agents, there are some in the story, I'm not gonna tell you who... I better look for who they are. Have I mentioned I'm an unreliable narrator? Grain of salt, people.

Are there any plans to introduce more diversity? LGBTQ characters- Several are in there already, but their romantic life is irrelevant to the story. But we'll get into that a little more in the next 2-3 books

Will there be a council for time travelers like time lords?- evil chuckle there's an anti-time travel council! Like any time he goes in to with a white council! I don't want to say time travel is wibbly wobbly but it's more about choices than minutes passed. We'll explain more when we get there.

What happened to Mister?-He's fine. Hanging out in the castle. Murphy took him when Harry was 'gone' and Harry collected him back

Is there a link between Murphy and Persephone?-No

Would you write a Scooby Doo side story with a warden?- oh man... I like to write for money. I might at some point, but yeah I have a house to pay off.

How bad is the Blackstaff for the user?-Ummm... You know... Not much worse than an active radiation core would be. Expose yourself quickly enough at sufficiently spaced intervals of time and it merely makes you miserable. But it's directly connected to void and the end of all things so you know not great for you, but we'll see more of that later.

Are you playing Fuck Marry Kill with the vampire courts?- The evidence speaks for itself.

Can a vampire become a knight of a holy sword?-which court? (White) wow that would be thorny. A narrow path to walk. Probably not Amorrachius but maybe Esperrachius.

Any plans to kill off in Twelve Months?-I'm gonna un-kill someone (gasps) not who you think.
Source:

DragonCon 2023 An Hour with Iim Butcher

Ok, we are loaded. What we saw worked the best the last few years was to edit the original post as he talks. Starts in 10 minutes. And I’ll...

SUMMARY
  • Mab was apparently a very angry woman before becoming Queen of Air and Darkness
  • The Blackstaff is very unhealthy to use.
  • If Titans were the construction crew of the universe, dragons were the bulldozers. They are on the same scale.
  • Wizards used to run Egypt, lots of influence in Rome and Camelot. Now they are basically a very powerful corporation/hedgefund rather than directly involved in politics; the comparison used was BlackRock.
  • One Uriel, many Odin's. Confirmation of their yearly lunch, and Odin is one of the few people who almost gets Uriel in convo.
 
@DragonParadox
Not mine, but you might find it interesting:

Jim Butcher Dragoncon 2023 Transcript
Audience questions are bolded, answers are plain

Source:

DragonCon 2023 An Hour with Iim Butcher

Ok, we are loaded. What we saw worked the best the last few years was to edit the original post as he talks. Starts in 10 minutes. And I’ll...

SUMMARY
  • Mab was apparently a very angry woman before becoming Queen of Air and Darkness
  • The Blackstaff is very unhealthy to use.
  • If Titans were the construction crew of the universe, dragons were the bulldozers. They are on the same scale.
  • Wizards used to run Egypt, lots of influence in Rome and Camelot. Now they are basically a very powerful corporation/hedgefund rather than directly involved in politics; the comparison used was BlackRock.
  • One Uriel, many Odin's. Confirmation of their yearly lunch, and Odin is one of the few people who almost gets Uriel in convo.
The only ones that may be canon to this quest are maybe dragon power level that's a big if, maybe the time travel council but of course that's probably never gonna come up as I doubt dp wants to handle it, King Arthur could be made true, and he can probably add in the wizard nation stuff in history. Oh and the black staff is probably something that can be made canon also leads more credence to the mother walking staff theory. Since their associated with the void to some degree and I believe endings and stuff.

The multiplicity nature of angels or archangels at the least obviously not canon and the power level probably not though the world glitching out when they go full power is a good possibility. Other than rules of certain beings and promises they've made one big reason you don't see the mothers using their stuff much in the material is because it explicitly breaks down reality. Dp also already said George didn't wield a blade which I find weird since im fairly sure Gods a forgiving sort in the Dresden files and it's not like Charlemagne didn't have slaves. Also you know people can do both bad and good things.

I wonder if we will ever get powerful enough if we became a primordial that full power us will fuck with reality here.
 
May I ask why, if you have the time to explain?

Because you are lying to people who are allies of the White Council, and who have unknown information gathering abilities.
This is the sort of thing that does permanent future damage to our reputation and our ability to do business.
As in, its literally better to say nothing than to lie.
Because a) it's not actually that much of a lie, and b) the alternative is nothing, which is much worse and liable to get us attacked, or them trying to take us in to discover where the intelligence leak.
Dont know how it was done in the books; it was never addressed.
And here is where all your reasoning breaks down. You first need to explain how a known terrorist was able to operate like he did in order to ascertain whether us recognizing a senior member of the Fellowship indicates (to them) a strong danger to their operation.

My guess would be some manner of glamour / facechange magic. It's quite likely that they have access to magic. It's also quite likely that they can veil or change their appearance (hell, just regular plastic surgery would do that). It's also nearly guaranteed that they are often using aliases. We used the woman's real name based on her appearance. The woman is a leader of a local war party who was secure enough to operate in a public airport. She's likely here in disguise of some sort.
2) She spooked us, not the other way around.
No. She and hers confronted us with a threat of violence under mistaken assumption. You escalated to presenting yourself as a strategic threat to their whole operation, if not organization, with deep level of penetration into their security.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Sep 14, 2023 at 2:19 AM, finished with 87 posts and 22 votes.

  • [X] Plan Deflection
    -[X]Decline to answer that question
    -[X]Offer in return, a warning that they keep their heads down, and a contact address
    -[X]STUNT: In response you smile and shake your head. "I cant possibly answer that. And if you are right" she tenses as you reach into your backpack, only to relax as you withdraw a notepad and pen "you probably dont want to be standing next to me in a Mexican airport when the Reds come looking." You finish scribbling an email address on the notepad, then hand it out. "My apologies to your medium for the ruckus. You may be assured that my business in Mexico is not directed at your association, or indeed the civilians of this nation. Beyond that, well," an expressive shrug "Security." You pause as if it just occurred to you. "Your organization might want to keep their heads down for the next couple weeks though. You'll know why by morning."
    [X] Lie, your reputation precedes you (Manipulation+Subterfuge)
    -[X] Stunt: You tilt your head in a manner that signals 'walk with me' as you begin your explanation, "Ever heard of divination? The psychometry to grab a name from your history isn't that difficult. Not a true name of course, those have built-in metaphysical defenses, but something close enough to make you hesitate is simplicity itself. I'm sure there are those in your organization that can do similar, given its continued survival," you pause, kicking the floor a bit as you look around, "now, a question of my own: Where is the bathroom? I wasn't lying about needing it."
    [X] Stonewall them, you don't own them any answers, if they are minded to shoot after everything you have just said you can deal with that
    [X]Do people you interact with NORMALLY not do their research before traveling to a new area?
    [X]Use NWS don't hide the knowledge and act like her name was part of the knowledge of NWS.
    -[x][stunt]"I can see the darkness people's which tends to tattle on them.". Shrug "I try and use it responsibly and usually to the persons benefit.".
    -[x]If whatever you see wasn't her fault say that and comfort her about it.
 
For reference, the Lerma River alone is 750km long. The Rio Grande de Santiago is 433km.
Thats over 1100km of river length.
A third of the Mexico-US border.

They had enough magically talented people to both cover that eleven hundred kilometer track AND pick up our track.
And since we only came to Mexico around 5pm, they managed to do this in less than two hours.
Thats a network.
Or maybe they got reports from 4-5 neighborhoods along the eleven hundred kilometer track and said "I think it's all along".
 
Because a) it's not actually that much of a lie, and b) the alternative is nothing, which is much worse and liable to get us attacked, or them trying to take us in to discover where the intelligence leak.
1)Thats not how this works.
What you lied about is not as important as the fact that you did so in the first place. And once you are known to be a liar, people get much more cautious about believing you or negotiating with you.

We are currently roleplaying an Infernal Exalt and chief executive of a major nationstate. We are a social Exalt.
Being known to lie makes our diplomatic efforts actively worse; we still look and smell like an archdevil to the supernatural eye and nose.


2)No information is better than false information.
Your word once broken is very hard to repair. And these guys are a valued ally of the White Council; our telling them falsehoods is going to materially affect our efforts with the White Council when(not if, but when) it gets back to them.


3)They have access to people who can at a minimum talk to ghosts.
Ghosts and spirits know shit in this universe, and will talk to people who speak to them the right way.
We dont want to play ourself.


And here is where all your reasoning breaks down. You first need to explain how a known terrorist was able to operate like he did in order to ascertain whether us recognizing a senior member of the Fellowship indicates (to them) a strong danger to their operation.

My guess would be some manner of glamour / facechange magic. It's quite likely that they have access to magic. It's also quite likely that they can veil or change their appearance (hell, just regular plastic surgery would do that). It's also nearly guaranteed that they are often using aliases. We used the woman's real name based on her appearance. The woman is a leader of a local war party who was secure enough to operate in a public airport. She's likely here in disguise of some sort.
They do not have organizational access to face change or glamor in the series.
I dont think we ever saw a human magic user who was any good at face change or glamor in the series; that was an exclusively Fae or naagloshii thing.

Martin was very good at disguise, but he had no magical aids.
When the FBI were looking for him in Changes, he used a purely mundane disguise to stake out the FBI building.


My guess is very simple: fake passport(s). Same person, cosmetic changes to hair and appearance, from one of the laxer countries. Which is something money and connections can and will get you if you know where to look and grease the right fingers.
The PLO did it, Al Qaeda does it, the Mossad does it.

The US didnt start using iris recognition until 2014ish IRL.

And frankly, if I had to guess, its probably a lot easier to find someone who can work a ritual to sanitize your personal records in the US customs system, where you can pile successes from a ritual at leisure at an auspicious time.
Than to get someone to cast magic on the move.


No. She and hers confronted us with a threat of violence under mistaken assumption. You escalated to presenting yourself as a strategic threat to their whole operation, if not organization, with deep level of penetration into their security.
Respectfully? Thats nonsense.

Identifying one high profile agent is not a strategic threat to their whole organization; thats like saying identifying al-Zawahiri or al-Adel is a strategic threat to Al Qaeda.
Or that identifying one of El Chapo's senior enforcers is a strategic threat to the Sinaloa Cartel.

Wizards literally live on this sort of information access and control. So do the Fae.
This isnt exactly a new phenomenon to them; if that wasnt a manageable threat they wouldnt have lasted more than two hundred years and counting.

Now that she's figured Molly isnt a vampire, its a tossup between whether she's just fishing for information or unconsciously treating Molly like the teenager she appears to be.

Or maybe they got reports from 4-5 neighborhoods along the eleven hundred kilometer track and said "I think it's all along".
Maybe. I considered that.
But they mentioned picking up the trail where we left the river.
And we've only been in Mexico for around two hours now.

That suggests more coverage than just a couple outposts along the waterway, because you usually dont stumble into a person's tracks across eleven hundred km of waterway.
That or a passel of cooperative spirits or fae doing tracking for them, which is at least as significant, if not more so.
 
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Respectfully? Thats nonsense.
Identifying one high profile agent is not a strategic threat to their whole organization; thats like saying identifying al-Zawahiri or al-Adel is a strategic threat to Al Qaeda.
Respectfully, you are talking out of your ass and making claims you can't support. In this situation and as presented, it might be exactly as much, if not more of a strategic threat as I said. It might not be, but it has high chances to be.

We don't know how big of a deal using her true name (and, remember, the Crown gives us true names, if not ones usable in conjuring) is. We don't know how big of a deal recognizing her on sight is (How known this appearance of hers is). We know she's a high level field operative in a terrorist (guerilla) organization. Identifying her is compromising her ability to operate. Doing so on sight, and by her true name which she might not have used for hundreds of years and is only known to very few? That's strategic threat making her a burned asset to the organization unless we are neutralized. It's a hell of an escalation for pretty much no gain. Needless escalation at that.
 
Respectfully, you are talking out of your ass and making claims you can't support. In this situation and as presented, it might be exactly as much, if not more of a strategic threat as I said. It might not be, but it has high chances to be.

We don't know how big of a deal using her true name (and, remember, the Crown gives us true names, if not ones usable in conjuring) is. We don't know how big of a deal recognizing her on sight is (How known this appearance of hers is). We know she's a high level field operative in a terrorist (guerilla) organization. Identifying her is compromising her ability to operate. Doing so on sight, and by her true name which she might not have used for hundreds of years and is only known to very few? That's strategic threat making her a burned asset to the organization unless we are neutralized. It's a hell of an escalation for pretty much no gain. Needless escalation at that.
I strongly disagree.

1) The lady knows by her own account that Molly hasnt been in the country long.
They came looking for her. They tracked her down. She didnt go to them; they came to her.
Molly just recognizes her on sight and uses her name to deescalate measures.


2) More broadly, its an insurgency.
No person is indispensable to an insurgency. If they had indispensable people, the organization would be dead. The traitor had to infiltrate the inner circle for a hundred plus years to get enough information to make a good attempt at a clean sweep in Changes.


3) We didnt use her true name. The Crown does not give True Names.
We used, and I quote: "you close your eyes and take a deep breath, picking out a the name that fits the woman ion front of you best:" Not the same thing.

We know the names she goes by, including her birth name, but not her True Name.
You need to get that from the person's own mouth.


4)There is no evidence for
=Your assertion that she hasnt used this name for hundreds of years
=Your assertion of her being hundreds of years old
=Your assertion that her name is known to very few.

I will repeat:
Martin's face was known to the Reds for decades, and he got notorious enough to end up on international watchlists.
He was still the number one choice for high profile missions like attempting to assassinate Paolo Ortega in Chicago.



5) Ms Newton's been operating in a nationstate where the Bad Guys have had both sorcerers and infiltrators for long enough to make it to the status of one of only six living Captains.

Her face, her name is known.
Just like how the major commanders of Al Qaeda, and the major commanders of the drug cartels are known.
Just like the ANC's leaders were known during the apartheid struggle.

You dont command forces that long and not leave a trail.



6) You dont cooperate with the White Council and Venatori without having identifiable commanders.
You cannot command your own troops, get cooperation from your own collaborators and sympathizers, without being recognizable.
If she wasnt recognizable, she wouldnt be able to do the job of senior commander.

There are Fellowship members and affiliates that benefit from being unknown and unrecognizable.
Senior commanders are not one of them.



The funny thing is, IIRC Molly knows Susan Rodriguez is Fellowship from listening at bedroom doors and talking to Dresden in Death Masks. Can almost certainly recognize her from her time in Chicago as a reporter.
Canonically knows about Martin I think, though I dont remember offhand if she has seen him.

It was her advice to Dresden about bondage that resulted in Maggie Dresden's conception.
 
1) The lady knows by her own account that Molly hasnt been in the country long.
They came looking for her. They tracked her down. She didnt go to them; they came to her.
Molly just recognizes her on sight and uses her name to deescalate measures.
This makes it much worse, not better, for Molly to use her real identity. It demonstrates a level of casual security penetration that is frankly horrifying, and makes Molly much more, not less, a threat to her and her whole organization that canbe allowed anywhere near to where they are operating.

2) More broadly, its an insurgency.
No person is indispensable to an insurgency. If they had indispensable people, the organization would be dead. The traitor had to infiltrate the inner circle for a hundred plus years to get enough information to make a good attempt at a clean sweep in Changes.
They can't easily replace their numbers because their recruitment is essentially controlled by the enemy they are fighting, because only Reds can make Red dhampirs. Everyone is essentially irreplaceable, senior operatives with centuries of experience and power accumulation all the more so.

3) We didnt use her true name. The Crown does not give True Names.
The Crown always gives true names stripped of Mystic connotations needed for conjugation unless directed to provide nicknames and aliases. That's how it always worked.

Martin's face was known to the Reds for decades, and he got notorious enough to end up on international watchlists.
He was still the number one choice for high profile missions like attempting to assassinate Paolo Ortega in Chicago.
You yourself admit that you have no f*cking idea how it could have worked. It's either a big plot hole, or there's something we are not seeing explaining this.

5) Ms Newton's been operating in a nationstate where the Bad Guys have had both sorcerers and infiltrators for long enough to make it to the status of one of only six living Captains.

Her face, her name is known.
Just like how the major commanders of Al Qaeda, and the major commanders of the drug cartels are known.
Just like the ANC's leaders were known during the apartheid struggle.

You dont command forces that long and not leave a trail.
You are assuming all that.

Senior commanders are not one of them.
Senior field commanders of terrorist organizationa have to be unidentifiable by their true names (identities) on sight by random strangers, or they simply cannot operate in modern security theaters at all.
 
This makes it much worse, not better, for Molly to use her real identity. It demonstrates a level of casual security penetration that is frankly horrifying, and makes Molly much more, not less, a threat to her and her whole organization that canbe allowed anywhere near to where they are operating.
I fail to see your point.
They live in a setting where knowledgeable magic users can summon oracular spirits who can look through time to retrieve information on people. Where the Fae always know more about your business than you assume.

This is not news to them.
If they tried attacking everyone who knows stuff about them, they'd all be dead.


They can't easily replace their numbers because their recruitment is essentially controlled by the enemy they are fighting, because only Reds can make Red dhampirs. Everyone is essentially irreplaceable, senior operatives with centuries of experience and power accumulation all the more so.
This is not true. I quote:
Changes chapter 2 said:
The Fellowship of St. Giles was a collection of the supernatural world's outcasts and strays, many of them half vampires like Susan. They hated the Red Court with a holy passion, and did everything in their power to confound the vampires at every opportunity. They operated in cells, choosing targets, training recruits, planting bombs, and funding their operations through a hundred shady business activities. Terrorists, basically—smart, quick, and tough because they had to be.
Many. Not all. Not most.
We know of at least one untrained warlock who was a member in canon.

Even in the last update, we were literally told that the Fellowship accepts full humans as members, and there are a lot on the rolls.


The Crown always gives true names stripped of Mystic connotations needed for conjugation unless directed to provide nicknames and aliases. That's how it always worked.
To my recollection, the Crown gives identities. Not the same thing.

For most of the people we have looked up so far, their identity is also their birth name. That doesnt hold true for everyone. And for some, their identities can change; see the Red Tie fellow we snitched on for fucking with Nazis. Or Broken Seeker; I guarantee that Broken Seeker is not his birth name.

Or the Will of Kakuri.

You yourself admit that you have no f*cking idea how it could have worked. It's either a big plot hole, or there's something we are not seeing explaining this.
I dont know because its not stated. I am making informed speculation.
The most straightforward option is false passports which we know work IRL, because RL intelligence agencies and terrorist organizations and criminals use them.

Mossad issues false passports and impersonates Western tourists when assassinating people
www.theguardian.com

Dubai murder: fake identities, disguised faces and a clinical assassination

CCTV appears to show sophisticated operation behind killing of Hamas official Mahmoud al-Mabhouh
Russia sends illegals to the US with Brazilian passports to get a masters degree and then infiltrate other countries.
www.theguardian.com

US indicts alleged Russian spy who tried to infiltrate ICC in The Hague

Sergey Cherkasov studied in US under false identity and is accused of working for Russian intelligence
Or straight up commits identity theft and impersonates Americans and Canadians
And Al Qaeda does much the same thing, actually training operatives to forge passports

No magic necessary.
Just money and forgery.
You are assuming all that.
Its the only actual explanation that fits the facts as laid out.

You CANNOT operate without the troops knowing who their commanders are, both for operational and morale reasons. Or foreign contacts knowing who they can approach, or ask to talk to. Especially not on the scale of an organization that can organize a manhunt across a good chunk of Mexico in around a hundred and twenty minutes.

And once the information filters down to the lowest organizational levels, it will get around to the Reds.
They havent maintained their hold on Latin America for centuries by being completely incompetent.

Senior field commanders of terrorist organizationa have to be unidentifiable by their true names (identities) on sight by random strangers, or they simply cannot operate in modern security theaters at all.
1)*points at RL Mexico* Demonstrably untrue.
The heads and senior figures of the Mexican cartels are known figures, and operate even with the NSA and DEA lending a hand to the Mexican government. Senior figures of the Italian mafias are known to the government.

Knowing a person's real name and face does not tell you where they are, what they are planning, or what they currently look like.

And even if your name or face is known?
Nothing stops you dying your hair, growing facial hair, getting glasses, changing your clothes, or a thousand and one other tricks of tradecraft that people use to alter their appearance in order to throw off pursuit.


2)Latin America, preferred stomping ground of the Red Court and primary battleground with the Fellowship?
Is not the US or Europe.Standards of security are very different.
And even in the West, as long as you dont draw too much attention, you can get away with a lot of shit.
 
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I fail to see your point.
This makes us much more dangerous than we would otherwise be. That's escalating situation, not deescalting it. We are increasing the level of threat we represent to them.

They tried approaching us under two assumptions:
1) That we were a Lord of the Outer Night
2) That they could approach us in order to initiate hostilities

We have (possibly, I am still unsure they are buying that) convinced them that we are not a Lord of Outer Night. So, right now we are a dangerous unknown thing. The second assumption has "it can't identify us on sight" baked in. By disproving that assumption (since we identified their senior agent by name) we are increasing the uncertainty of the situation to them, and increasing our threat level.
Many. Not all. Not most.
I'll give you "not all", but I'm not giving you "not most".
We know of at least one untrained warlock who was a member in canon.
So, they do have access to magic as an organization. Law-breaking magic at that. This puts a dent into "Martin only used mundane disguises and false documents" theory.
No magic necessary.
Just money and forgery.
Yes. And how would such an operative react if they were identified on sight by an unknown threat in an airport?
You CANNOT operate without the troops knowing who their commanders are, both for operational and morale reasons. Or foreign contacts knowing who they can approach, or ask to talk to. Especially not on the scale of an organization that can organize a manhunt across a good chunk of Mexico in around a hundred and twenty minutes.
Troops in terrorist cells need ways to identify their superiors, not to know their true names, or faces.
The heads and senior figures of the Mexican cartels are known figures, and operate even with the NSA and DEA lending a hand to the Mexican government.
That's entirely different. Cartels are not guerilla resistances fighting a doomed fight. They are near peers to local governments in how much hard power they have.
Nothing stops you dying your hair, growing facial hair, getting glasses, changing your clothes, or a thousand and one other tricks of tradecraft that people use to alter their appearance in order to throw off pursuit.
yes, exactly. Doing things to avoid being recognized on sight. The thing we did. Recognize her from how she looked. That makes us a threat.
 
The vote is very close I think I'll leave it for a bit. For what it is worth Molly has no idea IC how public a Knight Commander of the Fellowship is meant to be since she has not researched them at all and that is not the kind of detain Bob's Magic factions 101 went into so you guys are going to have to make your best guess.
 
1)The holy symbols we have seen onscreen (cross, pentacle)are nonspecific.
They will similarly repel Blampires and, when sufficiently empowered, Rampires. But they do nothing to Whampires or Denarians.
I do not see the Fellowship relying on items that may or may not work depending on the person wielding them and their level of faith that day.


2) Susan tells us in Changes that the only response to an Ick demon (she calls it a devourer) is to run and hope you outrun it.
The interrogation room didn't have any windows, and it was completely dark inside. Tilly appeared in the doorway, holding up a hand to shield his eyes. "Dresden?"
"Yeah, obviously," I said. "Susan?"
"I'm here," she said from the darkness, her voice shaking with fear. "I'm cuffed to the chair. Harry, we've got to go."
"Working on it," I said quietly.

"You don't understand. That thing, that drumming sound. It's a devourer. You don't fight them. You run, and pray someone slower than you attracts its attention."
And they tried a blind NeverNever jump over Dresden confronting it with his pentacle.

So either they dont have enough faith to empower the crucifixes and native religious symbols that are commonplace in Mexico.
Or that is explicit IC demonstration that Red Court-aligned entities arent necessarily sensitive to holy anything.
That isn't how any of this works.

Red vampires have a weakness to faith/holy objects, they don't inherently have some ability to effect CoDs or whatever. The Ick demon is just a creature without their bane. You might as well ask why Dresden's inherited silver wasn't a threat to it.
And since we only came to Mexico around 5pm, they managed to do this in less than two hours.
Thats a network.
Or they had talents anywhere on that length and started checking once it got spooky.

The context of that part of the conversation was watching us directly or reading our future, if you'd predicted this you would have said something more specific.

2) I dont remember its being explicitly stated in the books, but the RPG appears to be clear that are clear that not all Reds can make new Reds. You need to be either yay old or invested with power/authority to do so iirc; hence Paolo Ortega being present at Bianca's ball, as being someone with the age/power to invest it in her, and because she was of his bloodline.

Regardless? The only Red Court operations we get a good look at are surprisingly well organized.
None of these are single man operations, and they are hardly short of minions to the scut work on this.
I actually expect keeping track and reporting upstream is a requirement, at least in the modern day.
They're still a feudal structure, which implies some freedom for the major lords. If you were right then St. Giles wouldn't have the membership it does, and the reds aren't exactly perfect themselves.

It's possible, but given the conditions we're seeing it seems more likely to be that the reporting is at most done like you would head of cattle instead of by detailed profile.
3)I dont agree. Dresden does not appear to have had all that much issue identifying anyone whose face he's gotten a clear look at since at least the second book. Thats presumably why Cowl and Kumori have gone to such lengths to obscure their faces in Dead Beat, and why Vittorio Malvora did much the same thing in White Night.

And when the Grey Council come to Chitchen Itza, they cover their faces as well.
Recognition by face isn't the same as recognition by original name, especially with people old enough to potentially predate photo ID.

In some ways it's a worse problem because people can start looking for you using something harder to change than a name, but in others it's harder since (for a long time) searching a database of faces was more involved than one of names.

I'm not saying having a name for her is that weird either, just that the specific one we used may be. If she's a couple centuries old and had gone through a number of IDs a more typical profile of her would probably include her major aliases, resources, reputation, and stuff like that. Bothering with her oldest and least useful name says something about the level of our hypothetical reports on her.

This sort of thing is why intellectus is a big deal. For the most part if someone small enough to fit on the mortal stage wants to know something they have to look for it. Magic can enhance that, but it has its own limitations.

Harry isn't the strongest or best trained wizard, but he is an example of the leg work you still need to do in a lot of cases. You can see a murder victim's last moments and remotely view unshielded locations, but you still need to put together the data and translate it to something more general and compatible with mortal systems if you care to read the target's criminal record.

You can trade for information with spirits, but that can get pricy and most of the time it equates to someone doing the same sort of work.

Being able to read her deepest desires or most terrible sins is more common than being able and interested in following leads back that far.

None of this actually stops you from consistently IDing someone like her in a useful way, but I think it would make someone bothering to dig up certain bits of information unusual because it's not that useful.

She probably thinks it's just an intimidation tactic, but how we choose to engage with the question tells her a lot about us.
 
[X] Uju32

I wish we had a little more stable relationship with the council. It'd be way safer to tell her to ask them to arrange a meeting with us than to leave her contact information. Which I how we'll set up in a way that can withstand the rigors of a supernatural nation state trying to crack it open.

It's still a better idea than telling the lie @Yog is proposing. People never explain their powers, and the explanation we're giving can be checked with others. People who will come back to tell her it is actually very difficult and we were either full of shit or have insane divination powers. Which is a bit more of a hint than we want to give.

Worse, it's also condescending. Newton probably isn't a diviner herself, but asking what's probably a multi century old half red and is definitely a commander in a supernatural insurgency if they know what divination is before feeding them bullshit about how it works is sort of ridiculous.

Edit:

Unrelated, but when we see them next our smoothing things over gift should be a prodigy flashlight that produces proper sunlight.

Baseline it's probably 3 dots because that's where most combat effects are. +1 for making it usable for non-exalts, -1 for something like needing to spend blood points to activate it for some number of minutes or whatever. Net result is needing a reagent, but nothing like what splendors require.
 
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That isn't how any of this works.

Red vampires have a weakness to faith/holy objects, they don't inherently have some ability to effect CoDs or whatever. The Ick demon is just a creature without their bane. You might as well ask why Dresden's inherited silver wasn't a threat to it.
In the interests of avoiding you and uju talking past each other more, I think he's asking "Why would you assume this group has enough faith in anything to repel a red vamp?"

Basically if they don't have any faith asking them to test us with holy symbols is useless. They can't do it. For all we know they didn't bring anyone with faith because they did bring and anti-COD artifact and figured they didn't need one. And not being wizards are kind of vague on what the difference is. It's not a large chance, but an extant one.
 
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