No, nothing like that, I am just pointing out Michael cannot normally put his personal life above his mission if an order does come in. Yes he was allowed to set the sword down and follow Molly, but the key word here is allowed, don't assume he can just set down the mantle of Knight whenever he likes.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
No, nothing like that, I am just pointing out Michael cannot normally put his personal life above his mission if an order does come in. Yes he was allowed to set the sword down and follow Molly, but the key word here is allowed, don't assume he can just set down the mantle of Knight whenever he likes.
- Location
- Australia
That's a fair critique, but I can't think of anything else that could comprehensively address Charity's concerns about this situation as well as our own safety and wellbeing. If anyone can think of a more tactful way to assuage Charity's fears or to modify my proposal I'm all ears.
Plus, to be a bit rules lawyerly, technically we might be able to at least minimise the risk of a diplomatic incident via getting a Heavenly employee involved and keep to this promise to Charity would be discussing and considering with Michael when and where there might be a conflict of interest between our plans and Heavenly official policy, and thus Michael could avoid being present, or if foreknowledge alone would compel him to act, perhaps we might agree on what topics or aspects we shouldn't discuss (at least directly) to prevent triggering any conflict of interest? I wouldn't expect such tactics to work completely, and it would definitely violate the spirit, if not the letter of such a promise to Charity, but it might work in a pinch or in tandem with something else (like a legitimate reason he has to be called away to do knightly duties).
Worse comes to worse, we'd only be promising to keep Michael completely in the loop and thus following Heaven's rules for Hell in this specific instance/circumstance of exorcising Harry, not in our every interaction, situation, action and plan going forward (at least implicitly from our phrasing), which again kind of breaks the spirit if not the letter of such a verbal contract with Charity, but again, I can't think of another way to make Charity, if not comfortable, then at least tolerant of any plans we might make.
Also, I suspect Harry would be MUCH more likely to actually agree to go along our plan with it if he knows someone from or at least aligned with the Church knows what Molly is trying to do, particularly someone he trusts like Michael - as opposed to being solely a Molly project (not to say he doesn't trust/believe us personally, but I think he still has lingering doubts about if, how and to what extent our infernal power might be influencing us, especially when it comes to something like the Fallen).
That assumes that Lash isn't an Incarna (WoD) level spirit or above. ESB is quite limited in what it can bind.
- Location
- Germany
The assumption is also that Lash is a real spirit.
For all we know a being imprinted on a human brain couldn't exist independantly as a spirit.
I'd think that's pretty unlikely, but definitly possible.
Then again, Lash just popping out of existance the moment she has to leave Harry's head would be kinda narrativly unsatisfying, so I really don't think that's it.
For all we know a being imprinted on a human brain couldn't exist independantly as a spirit.
I'd think that's pretty unlikely, but definitly possible.
Then again, Lash just popping out of existance the moment she has to leave Harry's head would be kinda narrativly unsatisfying, so I really don't think that's it.
Lash isn't even Lasciel, she shouldn't be on the level of Incarnae(sp?)
[X] No, you are not going to betray Harry's secret
-[X] She can just deal with it (Truthfully inform her that this is not a question you can answer in good conscience)
-[X] "It's not my place to tell, but Dad knows and I wouldn't do anything without his full backing and involvement."
My ExWoD pdf also has an Argent Miracle Binding ancient sorcery spell:
I checked, Rite of the Fetish does not place any restrictions on the spirit or its level, just that it has to be cooperating or beat up into submission.
The only advantage of the ESB is that it binds the spirit into service, which we don't actually need. The objective is to free Harry from Lash and Lash from Harry, if we need her service we can just explicitly make an offer to her, with MiS and other advantages we can give, and with her apparent attempt to manifest in our kingdom she is likely to accept.
And Devil-Refining Cauldron (••••) charm
also doesn't place any restrictions on the spirit's power, only, again, that it has to be willing or beat up into submission.
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Ok. So unprecedented is unprecedented.
Just to confirm, does Molly know IC that Michael knows?
Yes, Michael canonically knows, and has known for several years, because he was there when Dresden picked up the Coin even without Harry seeing him. But Im not sure that Molly has figured it out.
I think she can guess, but does she actually know?
QUESTION
Just to confirm, does Molly know IC that Michael knows?
Yes, Michael canonically knows, and has known for several years, because he was there when Dresden picked up the Coin even without Harry seeing him. But Im not sure that Molly has figured it out.
I think she can guess, but does she actually know?
"Mouse? He totally has been near a coin, honest!"
[X] No, you are not going to betray Harry's secret
-[X] She can just deal with it (Truthfully inform her that this is not a question you can answer in good conscience)
-[X] "It's not my place to tell, but Dad knows and I wouldn't do anything without his full backing and involvement."
Also, distraction version!
[jk] Distraction!
-[jk] "So, mom, ever wanted to visit hell? Well, a hell, but still!"
She also didn't seems to think it would be what would happen, so we have that as reassurance too.
[X] No, you are not going to betray Harry's secret
-[X] She can just deal with it (Truthfully inform her that this is not a question you can answer in good conscience)
-[X] "Dad knows."
To be more specific about this case, if Heaven isn't allowed to stop the Fallen from tempting mortals as long as they stay within certain guidelines then a knight wouldn't be allowed to tell us to perform an exorcism like this or directly participate in casting it. But if they want it to happen they're allowed to just hang out at the door and not stop a free agent from doing whatever; they aren't the Denarians' body guards after all.
We see the same principle in action with some of what Harry does with them.
As to the other bit, involving them is different than promising to follow their lead on this, which is effectively what that promise does.
You're creating the circumstances for a diplomatic incident by creating a situation where if we break that promise and do it without the knights' consent it can potentially be used against Heaven during arbitration over the incident. Hard to say if it'd actually work out for Hell, but we don't need to be giving them openings to work with.
You're right that it only does so for this issue, but we are talking about a Fallen Angel in Harry's head. Complicating the problem unnecessarily is still an issue for us.
If she had trying to save Lash would be a dangerous fool's errand and we'd be better served inflicting fetitch death on the primary Angel by MiM-ing her.
-[X] She can just deal with it (Truthfully inform her that this is not a question you can answer in good conscience)
-[X] "Dad knows."
Already accounted for is sort of the problem here. He has to follow the rules to a certain extent while picking his tools so to speak, and there's a difference between not intervening and setting something up.
To be more specific about this case, if Heaven isn't allowed to stop the Fallen from tempting mortals as long as they stay within certain guidelines then a knight wouldn't be allowed to tell us to perform an exorcism like this or directly participate in casting it. But if they want it to happen they're allowed to just hang out at the door and not stop a free agent from doing whatever; they aren't the Denarians' body guards after all.
We see the same principle in action with some of what Harry does with them.
Maximum assurance for her isn't and shouldn't be our primary priority. We should give her something, but getting ourselves stuck in a position where we accidentally give ammunition to the devil or something in doing so isn't a good plan.
As to the other bit, involving them is different than promising to follow their lead on this, which is effectively what that promise does.
You're creating the circumstances for a diplomatic incident by creating a situation where if we break that promise and do it without the knights' consent it can potentially be used against Heaven during arbitration over the incident. Hard to say if it'd actually work out for Hell, but we don't need to be giving them openings to work with.
You're right that it only does so for this issue, but we are talking about a Fallen Angel in Harry's head. Complicating the problem unnecessarily is still an issue for us.
She's an impression on Harry's soul and has to fit into his head. Even under the now apparently retconned ruling that she was a sun soul Lasciel almost certainly wouldn't put that large a portion of her soul out in some mortal.
If she had trying to save Lash would be a dangerous fool's errand and we'd be better served inflicting fetitch death on the primary Angel by MiM-ing her.
She suspects since Harry blurted out something about Lash staying in his head in Michael's presence and no questions were asked. It could have just been shock from all the other stuff going on, but that seems unlikely.
- Location
- Right Where I Am
[X] No, you are not going to betray Harry's secret
-[X] She can just deal with it (Truthfully inform her that this is not a question you can answer in good conscience)
-[X] Dad knows
I'd rather us not bring up Michael at all, but I'm even more against even implicitly binding our hands to the Knights' approach on this matter.
-[X] She can just deal with it (Truthfully inform her that this is not a question you can answer in good conscience)
-[X] Dad knows
I'd rather us not bring up Michael at all, but I'm even more against even implicitly binding our hands to the Knights' approach on this matter.
- Location
- Estonia
[X] No, you are not going to betray Harry's secret
-[X] She can just deal with it (Truthfully inform her that this is not a question you can answer in good conscience)
-[X] Dad knows
Changing vote. This already implies enough that he has it handled for someone who trusts Michael. Sometimes less is more, let's not talk ourselves into some hole.
-[X] She can just deal with it (Truthfully inform her that this is not a question you can answer in good conscience)
-[X] Dad knows
Changing vote. This already implies enough that he has it handled for someone who trusts Michael. Sometimes less is more, let's not talk ourselves into some hole.
- Location
- Who knows?
[X] No, you are not going to betray Harry's secret
-[X] She can just deal with it (Truthfully inform her that this is not a question you can answer in good conscience)
-[X] Dad knows
-[X] She can just deal with it (Truthfully inform her that this is not a question you can answer in good conscience)
-[X] Dad knows
So, rereading the update, this is interesting. Barring "everything is an expression of essence" and "everything was designed by Primordials", claiming that souls of mortals are kin to the divine I.e. White God has implications, I think. We know that modern recreation of humanity is close enough to the original version for exaltations to still work. We know that wizards are a thing for this iteration of humanity, but seemingly not for the Exalted one (or at least not Sanctuary one)...
I am probably spinning in circles and grasping at shadows, but I'll take this as a very weak evidence of White God being a Devil Tiger who was once human.
@DragonParadox do dogs have souls?
Yes, that is why you can sacrifice animals in necromancy, but they are not as complex and persistent as those of humans or other sapients.
In fairness we don't know how true that statement might have been for exalted gods.
The primordials were looking for a system that didn't require much maintenance effort out of them and designed the whole thing from the perspective of a group who's only real common element is that they were all multi-souled living realms of their own.
It'd make some amount of sense if the natural and reasonable thing to do for them was "just" to decrease the size and number of souls in an entity as they moved down from largest to smallest.
If you had some sort of design document from their hypothetical planning meetings for Creation it's possible that you might be able to draw a line between mortals and gods, in particular around the interactions between their sub elements and the building blocks each is shaped from.
Its not equivalent to fighting the Primordial War, its equivalent to killing a Primordial.
Or, in Tolkien terms, you are talking about killing one of the Valar.
In a setting where even Morgoth is still alive, just imprisoned.
Why would it?
We have no idea what factors the White God takes into account when he does what he does.
We have explicit IC notification that Neverborn still exist in this setting, for example.
I provided Butcher's quote for the series.
They are not meant to be on the scale, they are beyond it. Even bogstandard angels are apparently supposed to be.
The QM might choose to change that, but so far has not.
1) Some of the Incarna were geased to not be able to act against the Primordials; principally Sol Invictus.
None of the others were, and none of them were ordered into battle against the Exalted Host that I can recall.
2)The Primordial War was also waged with the benefit of surprise and comprehensive intelligence, with weapons tailored against their foes by the King of Craftsmen himself and his favored people. And among the supporters of the Exalted Host were Autochton and Gaia; one literally built the Earth, the other invented the infrastructure that ran most of Creation.
3) I really am not. Not by the rules of the setting.
Even in WoD the most that an archmage gets around to is killing and eating a Yama King (Voormas v Tou Mu), and that was largely by treachery. In ExWoD we are looking at Antediluvians as potentially statted for full Circle engagements.
Some of it may be access codes, yes.
Most of it, as I understand it, is sheer, terrifying power. Mac is, by his own declaration, out, and yet he explicitly retains his intellectus, to the point where he can foretell Dresden trying to use his Sight, and stopping him because it would
Dresden is one of the few people who has had the...misfortune of soulgazing a Denarian(Rasmussen/Ursiel), and, well,
The blast slammed into the bear-creature's chest, and it hunched its shoulders, turning its head to one side. Its forward charge faltered, and it slid to a stop, crashing against a weathered old metal trash can.
"What do you know," I muttered. "It worked." I stepped forward and unleashed another blast at the creature, hoping to either melt it to bits or drive it away. The bear-thing snarled and turned a hateful, murderous gaze at me with its four eyes.
The soulgaze began almost instantly.
When a wizard looks into someone's eyes, he sees more than just what color they are. Eyes are windows to the soul. When I make eye contact for too long, or too intently, I get to peek in through the windows. You can't hide what you are from a wizard's soulgaze. And he can't hide from you. You both see each other for what you are, within, and it's with a clarity so intense that it burns itself into your head.
Looking on someone's soul is something you never forget.
No matter how badly you might want to.
I felt a whirling, gyrating sensation and fell forward, into the bear-thing's eyes. The glowing sigil on its forehead became a blaze of silver light the size of a stadium Scoreboard set against a roundish cliffside of dark green and black marble. I expected to see something hideous, but I guess you can't judge a monster by the slime on its scales. What I saw instead was a man of lean middle years dressed in rags. His hair was long and straight, wispy grey that fell down to his chest. He stood in a posture of agony, his wiry body stretched out in an arch, with his hands held up and apart, his legs stretched out. I followed the lines of his arms back and up and saw why he stood that way.
He'd been crucified.
The man's back rested against the cliff, the great glowing sigil stretching out above him. His arms were pulled back at an agonizing angle, and were sunk to the elbow in the green-black marble of the cliff. His knees were bent, his feet sunk into the stone as well. He hung there, the pressure of all his weight on his shoulders and legs. It must have been agonizing.
The crucified man laughed at me, his eyes glowing a shade of sickly green, and screamed, "As if it will help you! Nothing! You're nothing!"
Pain laced his voice, making it shrill. Agony contorted the lines of his body, veins standing out sharply against straining muscle.
"Stars and stones," I whispered. Creatures like this bear-thing did not have souls to gaze upon. That meant that regardless of appearances to the contrary, this thing was a mortal. It-no, he-was a human being. "What the hell is this?"
The man screamed again, this time all rage and anguish, void of words. I lifted a hand and stepped forward, my first instinct to help him.
Before I got close, the ground began to shake. The cliff face rumbled and slits of seething orange light appeared, and then widened, until I faced the second set of eyes, eyes the size of subway tunnels, opening on the great marble cliff. I stumbled several steps back, and that cliff face proved to be exactly that-a face, cold and beautiful and harsh around that fiery gaze.
The quaking in the earth increased, and a voice louder than a Metallica concert spoke, the raw sense of the words, the vicious anger and hate behind them hitting me far more heavily than mere volume.
GET OUT.
The sheer force of presence behind that voice seized me and threw me violently back, away from the tortured man at the cliffside and out of the soulgaze. The mental connection snapped like dry spaghetti, and the same force that had thrown my mind away from the soul-gaze sent my physical body flying back through the air. I hit an old cardboard box filled with empty bottles and heard glass shattering beneath me. The heavy leather duster held, and no broken shards buried themselves in my back.
For a second or two, I just lay on my back, stunned. My thoughts were a hectic whirlpool I couldn't calm or control. I stared up at the city's light pollution against the low clouds, until some tiny voice in me started screaming that I was in danger. I shoved myself to my knees, just as the bear-creature smacked a trash can aside with one of its paws and started toward me.
My head was still ringing with the aftereffects of the soulgaze and the psychic assault that had broken the connection. I lifted my blasting rod, summoned up every bit of will I could scrape together out of the confusion, and spat a word that sent another lance of flame toward the bear-creature.
This time the blast didn't even slow it down. The set of orange eyes flared with a sudden luminance, and my fire splashed against an unseen barrier, dispersing around the creature in sheets of scarlet. It let out a screaming roar and lumbered toward me.
"What do you know," I muttered. "It worked." I stepped forward and unleashed another blast at the creature, hoping to either melt it to bits or drive it away. The bear-thing snarled and turned a hateful, murderous gaze at me with its four eyes.
The soulgaze began almost instantly.
When a wizard looks into someone's eyes, he sees more than just what color they are. Eyes are windows to the soul. When I make eye contact for too long, or too intently, I get to peek in through the windows. You can't hide what you are from a wizard's soulgaze. And he can't hide from you. You both see each other for what you are, within, and it's with a clarity so intense that it burns itself into your head.
Looking on someone's soul is something you never forget.
No matter how badly you might want to.
I felt a whirling, gyrating sensation and fell forward, into the bear-thing's eyes. The glowing sigil on its forehead became a blaze of silver light the size of a stadium Scoreboard set against a roundish cliffside of dark green and black marble. I expected to see something hideous, but I guess you can't judge a monster by the slime on its scales. What I saw instead was a man of lean middle years dressed in rags. His hair was long and straight, wispy grey that fell down to his chest. He stood in a posture of agony, his wiry body stretched out in an arch, with his hands held up and apart, his legs stretched out. I followed the lines of his arms back and up and saw why he stood that way.
He'd been crucified.
The man's back rested against the cliff, the great glowing sigil stretching out above him. His arms were pulled back at an agonizing angle, and were sunk to the elbow in the green-black marble of the cliff. His knees were bent, his feet sunk into the stone as well. He hung there, the pressure of all his weight on his shoulders and legs. It must have been agonizing.
The crucified man laughed at me, his eyes glowing a shade of sickly green, and screamed, "As if it will help you! Nothing! You're nothing!"
Pain laced his voice, making it shrill. Agony contorted the lines of his body, veins standing out sharply against straining muscle.
"Stars and stones," I whispered. Creatures like this bear-thing did not have souls to gaze upon. That meant that regardless of appearances to the contrary, this thing was a mortal. It-no, he-was a human being. "What the hell is this?"
The man screamed again, this time all rage and anguish, void of words. I lifted a hand and stepped forward, my first instinct to help him.
Before I got close, the ground began to shake. The cliff face rumbled and slits of seething orange light appeared, and then widened, until I faced the second set of eyes, eyes the size of subway tunnels, opening on the great marble cliff. I stumbled several steps back, and that cliff face proved to be exactly that-a face, cold and beautiful and harsh around that fiery gaze.
The quaking in the earth increased, and a voice louder than a Metallica concert spoke, the raw sense of the words, the vicious anger and hate behind them hitting me far more heavily than mere volume.
GET OUT.
The sheer force of presence behind that voice seized me and threw me violently back, away from the tortured man at the cliffside and out of the soulgaze. The mental connection snapped like dry spaghetti, and the same force that had thrown my mind away from the soul-gaze sent my physical body flying back through the air. I hit an old cardboard box filled with empty bottles and heard glass shattering beneath me. The heavy leather duster held, and no broken shards buried themselves in my back.
For a second or two, I just lay on my back, stunned. My thoughts were a hectic whirlpool I couldn't calm or control. I stared up at the city's light pollution against the low clouds, until some tiny voice in me started screaming that I was in danger. I shoved myself to my knees, just as the bear-creature smacked a trash can aside with one of its paws and started toward me.
My head was still ringing with the aftereffects of the soulgaze and the psychic assault that had broken the connection. I lifted my blasting rod, summoned up every bit of will I could scrape together out of the confusion, and spat a word that sent another lance of flame toward the bear-creature.
This time the blast didn't even slow it down. The set of orange eyes flared with a sudden luminance, and my fire splashed against an unseen barrier, dispersing around the creature in sheets of scarlet. It let out a screaming roar and lumbered toward me.
Actually soulgazing a Fallen is likely to be the sort of thing that breaks minds.
Its just that, by the rules that let them out of Hell, they are largely limited to acting through their hosts.
Thankfully.
COMMENTARY
Noteworthy here is that Uriel confirms to us that a Shadow only has access to a fraction of the knowledge of its progenitor Fallen.
In Eclipse Phase terms, they are a beta fork of the primary personality, not an alpha fork.
Which means that when Lash told us during that soulgaze that her memory says Here Be Dragons, she wasnt lying.
Lasciel might know what we are, but Lash doesnt.
So exorcising a Shadow would be an unprecedented action.
I cant help but feel that Uriel here is not being entirely fortright; he doesnt know what might happen if/when we do, but I suspect he can make a very good guess. Free Will, I suppose; trying not to put a thumb on the scales.
You have to give it to Charity.
Not even the presence of an archangel is enough to intimidate her into ignoring her maternal impulse to do her best to protect her daughter. From herself, if need be.
Huh. We havent failed that badly in a while.
19 dice and we still roll what would be a botch without a Key Ability.
No wonder Uriel is frustrated.
That would be stealing the body of someone who is just unconscious. Nasty bit of necromancy.
And absolutely unnecessary.
When Victor Sells summoned demons in Storm Front, they materialize themselves a body.
When the Nightmare goes to attack Murphy in her office in the daytime while wearing Dresden's face, and then after that goes after a pregnant Charity, it builds itself a body to walk around in. When the Outsiders show up, they manifest bodies.
When Dresden is present during the climactic scenes in Ghost Story, he literally wills himself a physical body.
And of course angels manifest and dismiss bodies all the time; we're currently sitting across from one, and we know another who runs a bar here in Chicago.
There's plenty of precedent for powerful spirits and mages being able to build and sustain bodies.
And assuming she cant do it for herself?
Building Lash a body should be well within the limits of Exalted Craft.
Especially in a setting where sorcerers build golems, the Fomor do transpecies chimera and radical transhuman surgery to themselves and their minions, and our Hell brings people back to life.
At most we might need to raise our Science or Medicine.
Or acquire some exotic components.
I've been eyeing that gossamer that Iku-Turso donated to our supplies for a reason.
1) I think most of that character development has already happened.
She's been in his head since Death Masks, which is around 3 years 9 months, and actively started talking to him when he was conscious in Dead Beat, around 13 months ago.
She would canonically die around May 2007, six months away.
2)I dont really ship them. Not that I object, more like I dont care that much.
Dresden's canon love interest bench is deep, from Elaine to Susan to Luccio to Murphy. And thats not counting the subs who havent gotten a chance to play yet, like Lara and Molly.
But I find Lash a fascinating character, both in her own right, and in the complications that her existence introduces into the setting. I dont want her to die. Besides, I dont want to butterfly Bonea away; I find the prospect of watching Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden having to deal with two daughters and possibly two baby mamas (Susan/Maggie and Lash/Bonnie) hilarious.
Imagine the family arguments between Harry(Daddy), Lash(Mommy) and Lasciel(Evil Grandmother).
IIRC in Exalted animals just have Po souls, not the Hun-Po pair humans do.
Cool.
VOTE
[X] No, you are not going to betray Harry's secret
-[X] She can just deal with it (Truthfully inform her that this is not a question you can answer in good conscience)
-[X] Dad knows
-[X]STUNT: "Not my secret to share, Mom" you reply slowly, turning to hold your mother's alarmed eyes. Casting around for additional reassurance you can spare, you continue "Im pretty sure Dad knows though."
So then why did the White God let them out of Hell to begin with? I will say this much, in this quest that question has an answer beyond 'God works in mysterious ways' and you guys can discover it.
Heck you could even ask Uriel right now though it seems unlikely he will answer that one straight up.
[X] No, you are not going to betray Harry's secret
-[X] She can just deal with it (Truthfully inform her that this is not a question you can answer in good conscience)
-[X] Dad knows
-[X]STUNT: "Not my secret to share, Mom" you reply slowly, turning to hold your mother's alarmed eyes. Casting around for additional reassurance you can spare, you continue "Im pretty sure Dad knows though."
-[X] She can just deal with it (Truthfully inform her that this is not a question you can answer in good conscience)
-[X] Dad knows
-[X]STUNT: "Not my secret to share, Mom" you reply slowly, turning to hold your mother's alarmed eyes. Casting around for additional reassurance you can spare, you continue "Im pretty sure Dad knows though."
Hmm... That seems like it would work with the local cosmology. Animals only have po and not hun souls because why would they need higher logic
While I too don't remember any canon evidence that they were ordered to directly fight against exalts, they were geased to follow commands of Primordials. This is the reason why exaltations' selection process is autonomic and can't be manipulated by Incarna - so they couldn't be ordered to choose humans loyal to Primordials.
Why did the White God let them rebel in the first place?So then why did the White God let them out of Hell to begin with? I will say this much, in this quest that question has an answer beyond 'God works in mysterious ways' and you guys can discover it.
Heck you could even ask Uriel right now though it seems unlikely he will answer that one straight up.
Mysterious ways obviously
Thing is when you have a massively superintelligent entity with eidetic memory and precognition doing things, even apparent dumb shit might be part of some literally galaxy brain strategy.
I mean, do recall that Nicodemus canonically commanded the defenses of the Outer Gates when Mab was new.
The closest example I can think of is the Creation Myth of Arda in the Silmarillion, where Eru and the Ainur sang Creation into being. And where everything Morgoth did to fuck up the Great Music furthered the Ainulindale.
Most gods were geased by the Primordials. Sol Invictus? Yes. Definite geas.
Not sure about Luna; she was born out of a literal gu jar, and we know she seduced Gaia.
The Maidens literally showed up on their own; the Primordials had no hand in making them. I dont think they were ever geased