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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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DakkaMania said:
Dunn if that was already answered, but can Molly communicate with her Hell or someone specific inside it while she is outside or does that use the same mechanic as actually entering?

Cause having comms means she can outsource a lot of intellectual labor to it.
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You either need to buy Prayer-Eating or craft a phone.
Maybe if she formally takes the Hell's spirit as a familiar she will be able to talk to it, but even that will require at least Level 3 in the Familiar Background

Or if one of the homebrew charm trees is allowed.
 
uju32 said:
Word of God: Its not fixed.
I asked the question months ago back when I was writing V1 of this thing and lost it.
Narrative quests to increase the size will exist, but its not just spend XP

As for size, the benchmark is Ukraine, which is 780 miles wide.
Thats to start.
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I don't like the fluff for the growth, and I doubt we'd really have time for the side quests.

Setting that aside, it's just not scaled right for the impact this sort of event should have from the start in my view. New Idaho doesn't strike the cosmic event vibe right. It shouldn't just slip in.

I'm surprised you even built something like that since you've been emphatically against a large hell since the start.

If we picked yours would you even vote for the actions you're suggesting?

Yog said:
Not by default, I think? Prayer eating charm tree lends itself to this, and it's not hard to wonder forge a non-sapient emenation arcana for this purpose.
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This feels like something in the not forbidden but not allowed category that should have some flexibility.

If it's Molly's soul body it seems like she should have at least a vague awareness of it, especially if we have lord of the land to make control of it as a body part viable.
 
uju32 said:
craft a phone.
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1 dot non-sapient emanation Arcana:
Attributes:
Intelligence 1
Perception 5
Charisma 4
Stamina 3

Abilities:
Technology 3
Computer 5 (3 + 2 from freebie points)
Occult 3
Academics 2
Alertness 4 (3+1 from freebie points)
Awareness 3
Expression 1
Etiquette 2
Performance 2

Willpower 10

Arcana Features:
Select either the Umbra or the Underworld. This is the emanation's native home. It may roam
freely in its native realm, where it enjoys the natural ability to converse with the other native
denizens and to navigate without undue difficulty (in the Umbra, this amounts to having the
Charm Airt Sense, while in the Underworld it amounts to having several dots of Argos). The
phantasm may manifest in the physical world only while within one hundred yards of its
keystone, or within ten yards of its master. It must pay one Willpower to remain manifest for a
scene. It may pay one Willpower to immediately teleport to its master's or keystone's location.
If the phantasm's master the emanation's name, the Arcana hears her words wherever it may be.
If she commands the ephemera to attend her, it may teleport to her master's location and
manifest without paying any Willpower. If the keystone is destroyed, the phantasm is also
destroyed. If the emanation is slain, it may reform one hundred years later within its keystone.
Each point of Essence fed into the keystone by its master quickens this recovery by 10 years.
If the emanation's master has learned The King and the Kingdom: The Thousand and First Hell,
the phantasm may treat its master's Hell as a keystone.
Ephemera are always otherworldly, disturbing beings with demonic features of some sort that
cannot be mistaken for as human.
The Arcana has most likely has a machine-mind, though it might
also have some other quirk like a technological spirit having been bound into it during its
creation. Whatever the case, the difficulty of all the Arcana's Computer rolls are reduced by two.
The Arcana can project its thoughts into the minds of other nearby people to
communicate with them. It can communicate with its master across up to (Arcana rating x 100
miles) of distance. By spending a point of Willpower, it can also receive communications from
someone… or, to put it another way, it actively reads their surface thoughts for the rest of the
scene. The target can always sense this, and can shut the Arcana out by spending a point of
Willpower.
A non-sapient Arcana that acts as a telapathic relay. It integrates with communication network of our kingdom (via technopathic integration), taking and relaying calls, which it transmits to us via telepathy. And I even got 1 freebie point remaining (might look for some merit to spend it on).

The key is that our kingdom is its keystone.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I don't like the fluff for the growth, and I doubt we'd really have time for the side quests.

Setting that aside, it's just not scaled right for the impact this sort of event should have from the start in my view. New Idaho doesn't strike the cosmic event vibe right. It shouldn't just slip in.

I'm surprised you even built something like that since you've been emphatically against a large hell since the start.

If we picked yours would you even vote for the actions you're suggesting?


This feels like something in the not forbidden but not allowed category that should have some flexibility.

If it's Molly's soul body it seems like she should have at least a vague awareness of it, especially if we have lord of the land to make control of it as a body part viable.
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She should, but the problem is she still thinks of herself as fundamentally human more than anything else. With Exalted the Charm you take to talk to people on the other side is the realization that you can do it. They are not spells, they are extensions of the self
 
DragonParadox said:
She should, but the problem is she still thinks of herself as fundamentally human more than anything else. With Exalted the Charm you take to talk to people on the other side is the realization that you can do it. They are not spells, they are extensions of the self
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Is there a charm for this?

Prayer eating is about point blank worshipers for the most part, it doesn't really touch on things like "That industrial explosion sure tickled" or awareness of a soul-body's weather patterns.


myrix said:
Persistent wind patterns corralling storm clouds into giant letterforms in the sky: "Hello! Your God-Empress calling!" :V
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Molly: Is this why all the signs in the Old Testament are weird?

Honestly though, the low dot buy in for communications being limited to region scale charades would be hilarious.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Is there a charm for this?

Prayer eating is about point blank worshipers for the most part, it doesn't really touch on things like "That industrial explosion sure tickled" or awareness of a soul-body's weather patterns.



Molly: Is this why all the signs in the Old Testament are weird?

Honestly though, the low dot buy in for communications being limited to region scale charades would be hilarious.
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No, but I am open to such a custom charm, I will even call it Key since it supports your Hell rather than doing anything on its own.
 
[x] Yog

It took me a bit, but I eventually figured it out: Getting to the center of the Labyrinth allows it to transform into a turtle, doesn't it?

Mecha-turtle does trump desert so...
 
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BronzeTongue said:
I don't like the fluff for the growth, and I doubt we'd really have time for the side quests.
Setting that aside, it's just not scaled right for the impact this sort of event should have from the start in my view. New Idaho doesn't strike the cosmic event vibe right. It shouldn't just slip in.

I'm surprised you even built something like that since you've been emphatically against a large hell since the start.
If we picked yours would you even vote for the actions you're suggesting?
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Im affirmative we will. We are going to Yomi Wan anyway.
Side quests are chances to earn XP, and have always been, and we never have enough of it.
I mean the leading vote right now requires that we invest effort in side quests or deal with rebellious people.


I dont agree with the impact argument.
Its not like domains are unique; we saw part of Hades' domain in Skin Games, and we have been explicitly told by Butcher that the wizard Rashid the Gatekeeper has a domain past the moon. And Mikaboshi outright carved one out of Yomi Wan as a mortal.

Ours is special in age and degree. Its not unprecedented.

I think we are getting our wires crossed.
Im not against a large Hell and I dont think I've ever argued against one. As you'll notice, I asked the QM specifically if we could upgrade size if we start with a smaller Hell.

What I was against is prioritizing Size over everything else; as long as we were able to maintain a minimum size to sustain a nation-state level population with advanced technology, it became a matter of tradeoffs.

I would put Size as more important than Bottleneck, but features like Lord of the Land as way more important than World Size; World Size is just a flex, while Lord of the Land has narrative and mechanical consequences.
Pay attention to how Lord of the Land interacts with Kingdom as a signature charm, for example.
 
It looks like the Fivefold Courts have a decent lead, though MU is not out of the game yet. We will have to see what this looks like tomorrow, in any case guys I am glad to see that we finally got here. Speaking of your hell though, you guys are going to have to consider what you do about the Jade Dogs, on the one hand you can give them a much better life in your hell, on the other hand you would have to deal with some amount of cultural shock.
 
So, setting aside the excitement about Molly's Kingdom, what should be our next priority in XP spending? I personally think we should save for the "perfect defence" charm.

Which one is the most promising? Bloodless Murk Evasion will not reliably work during the day, Ablation of Brass and Fire seems to be very cool fluffwise but useless everywhere except cityscape. Counter-Conceptual Interposition is the most reliable, but costly in XP and Essence, when we inevitably face an unknown opponent. Bitter Heart Unbleeding is a variant that uses less Essence, but we must invent something to keep Molly wet during the battle.

What do you think?
 
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uju32 said:
Im affirmative we will. We are going to Yomi Wan anyway.
Side quests are chances to earn XP, and have always been, and we never have enough of it.
I mean the leading vote right now requires that we invest effort in side quests or deal with rebellious people.


I dont agree with the impact argument.
Its not like domains are unique; we saw part of Hades' domain in Skin Games, and we have been explicitly told by Butcher that the wizard Rashid the Gatekeeper has a domain past the moon. And Mikaboshi outright carved one out of Yomi Wan as a mortal.

Ours is special in age and degree. Its not unprecedented.
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I get where you are coming form, but it is also unprecedented on other manner which will be true even if you choose Hell House and make it lifeless: It is not made out of the stuff of the Spirit Realm, what wizards call the Nevernever. If molly picks up a rock in her hell and takes it back, it will remain a rock not just a rock-like construct that will break apart at the next sunrise or sunset into ectoplasm.
 
Cavalar said:
So, setting aside the excitement about Molly's Kingdom, what should be our next priority in XP spending? I personally think we should save for the "perfect defence" charm.

Which one is the most promising? Bloodless Murk Evasion will not reliably work during the day, Ablation of Brass and Fire seems to be very cool fluffwise but constrained everywhere except cityscape. Counter-Conceptual Interposition is the most reliable, but costly in XP and Essence, when we inevitably face an unknown opponent. Bitter Heart Unbleeding is a variant that uses less Essence, but we must invent something to keep Molly wet during the battle.

What do you think?
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What's the extremely effective disguise Charm called, Black Mirror Incarnation, or something like that? @DragonParadox, would it also hide our aura from those capable of sensing it?

VEE would also be nice to get some time soon.

I probably wouldn't argue too much against one of the "perfect" defense Charms, either.
 
DragonParadox said:
It looks like the Fivefold Courts have a decent lead, though MU is not out of the game yet. We will have to see what this looks like tomorrow, in any case guys I am glad to see that we finally got here. Speaking of your hell though, you guys are going to have to consider what you do about the Jade Dogs, on the one hand you can give them a much better life in your hell, on the other hand you would have to deal with some amount of cultural shock.
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from them or the hells denizens?
 
Cavalar said:
So, setting the excitement about Molly's Kingdom, what should be our next priority in XP spending?
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My hope is that we get enough XP to afford Constructive Convergence of Principles. We would then be able to use it to:
1) Cap off Last Station construction
2) Equip Daniel so he's safe(r) questing
3) Get exalted-grade equipment for ourselves and our allies (Christmas is coming, we need to prepare).

DragonParadox said:
It looks like the Fivefold Courts have a decent lead, though MU is not out of the game yet. We will have to see what this looks like tomorrow, in any case guys I am glad to see that we finally got here. Speaking of your hell though, you guys are going to have to consider what you do about the Jade Dogs, on the one hand you can give them a much better life in your hell, on the other hand you would have to deal with some amount of cultural shock.
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That's an interesting idea. I haven't thought about it. I would say that we should propose this as an option, but not insist. The ghouls and others who are completely divorced from human society and are eternal (or at least long-lived) get an education.
 
uju32 said:
I dont agree with the impact argument.
Its not like domains are unique; we saw part of Hades' domain in Skin Games, and we have been explicitly told by Butcher that the wizard Rashid the Gatekeeper has a domain past the moon. And Mikaboshi outright carved one out of Yomi Wan as a mortal.

Ours is special in age and degree. Its not unprecedented.
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The scale is part of it, a planet is different than popping up with a city.

I also detest the idea of turning our act of creation into a glorified recycling program. The secret origin punctures a significant aspect of what the hell is and the impact of it from my perspective.


uju32 said:
I think we are getting our wires crossed.
Im not against a large Hell and I dont think I've ever argued against one. As you'll notice, I asked the QM specifically if we could upgrade size if we start with a smaller Hell.
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You've directly argued against vast hells on the basis of them being too attention consuming and many other factors directly so many times stating that you aren't and haven't been feels incredibly disingenuous to me.

Do you not recall the population discussions just to name one example?

You also ducked the question there. A substantial portion of the thread wants this particular thing, so we might, but would you vote for it?

I'm not sure what the point of this is honestly. If it's a feature a significant portion of us want and we're nominally getting it anyway why not get it now and have our radial engagement quests in other areas?
 
Goldfish said:
What's the extremely effective disguise Charm called, Black Mirror Incarnation, or something like that? @DragonParadox, would it also hide our aura from those capable of sensing it?
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Yeah, it's an interesting charm, but there's a caveat:
«The Infernal spends 1 Essence, spends a moment concentrating, and dons a perfect illusion which causes her to appear to be someone else. This can be either a real person, or a fictitious individual of the Infernal's devising. This illusion fools all five senses. Deduction may reveal the Infernal for an impostor, but imperfections in the disguise itself never will. The illusion persists until the Infernal reflexively dismisses it, or until her anima flares»

So, no big moves during the usage of the charm.
 
I think what we need most is a Shaping Defense, but Constructive Convergence of Principles is also gating a lot of cool shit too.
 
DragonParadox said:
For them, they would be the ones in a foreign culture. A handful of immigrants are not going to cause a shock to an established culture.
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well they'd be a good start for rehabilitating outsiders into our hells culture. They have rough spots and we still like them though. So its a good start as far as I'm concerned. Given we don't need too exactly and someone should probably live in our dragon nest. But, yeah they'd be a pretty good prototype into converting people into our hells culture an easy mode if you will before converting say demons or immortal humans.
 
which city was the one that would likely handle most outsiders @Yog ? Both minor rehabilitation and integration and long projects of say converting certain types of demon or someone like nicodemus over centuries?
 
Goldfish said:
What's the extremely effective disguise Charm called, Black Mirror Incarnation, or something like that? @DragonParadox, would it also hide our aura from those capable of sensing it?

VEE would also be nice to get some time soon.

I probably wouldn't argue too much against one of the "perfect" defense Charms, either.
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Black Mirror Incarnation? Yeah, that is a five dot charm from the lies and deception Hell, seeing though that would take a hell of an effort. The Sight Could do it, but that is about it for mystical senses and if you are looking at an infernal with the Sight that has its own issues.
 
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