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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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BronzeTongue said:
My preference is to get into position to HMP them from way the hell away by exploiting the LoS function, then have it stuff them to the side during a low visibility part of their route where we're waiting in ambush.
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HMP is detectable. If we are far away while using it, we are far away and give them time to react.

For clearing the people out can someone tell me if USA cities have public announcement and warning systems? If so, we could stage a warning. Disruptive, but not "supernatural" disruptive.
BronzeTongue said:
It's not perfectly the same, but it's uncomfortably close. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Yeah, sorry about that. Still, while the shining armor form I designed is very tough, it's not Molly's peer in combat. It doesn't have favored abilities (I couldn't fit them), can botch, and to be frank, supernatural effects (against shaping and mind alteration) are kinda low. It's a "survive physical combat" build.
BronzeTongue said:
My more practical advice would be to swap some of the emanation's flaws out for geas. For spirits will and nature are one in DF, so this could reflect that fluff wise and reinforce the loyalty merit with some permanent teeth.
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I considered geas to be a cheat flaw, to be honest. Arcana are loyal by default, geas just reinforces that. But I'll think about it.
 
fictionfan said:
Maybe we can get that van reported as stolen. There is a good chance that it actually is. In any case some cops pulling them over might give us useful cover. (Shame we lack any of our hell favored stealth or disguise charms.)
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They either die or all get mindwhammied.
If we could get access to the city's camera network, Id be more comfortable

DragonParadox said:
  1. No, you would have to get the server that services them to do more than one camera individually
  2. No, he does not really see Mouse as a combat character
  3. Yes to both
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This problem looks increasingly insoluble as things stand.
Because the goal is hostage rescue, not just murder.

Right now, Im thinking that we might just yeet the van and its occupants into the Chicago River with MHM, and jump in after it.
Let TLF, RVD and BSM work in our favor.
But thats a last resort.
You see it passing by the unselfconsciously named Piggery where you had eaten many a Cuban Sandwitch and Coke playing hooky, the same same van. It has faded red paint, maybe seven or eight years old, peeling bumper stickers showing the names of half dozen stales, along with the places where again as many may once have stuck, you would not have though that one of Broken Seeker's cultists would be able to hold down enough of a job and a life outside to have something like this, but there you have it. Through the windows you can see Izzy and Alec, still unconscious, two skinwalkers man and woman driving, another four in the back with their master in stolen wolf's hide makes six with the last six in winged form, hawks and vultures, waiting to be send out with a patience no natural-born bird would show.
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Five wolf-sized quadrupeds in the back of the van doesnt leave much room for two captive humans.
Especially when the other occupants include shapeshifters in vulture form, which are pretty big birds.

@DragonParadox
QUESTION
1)How are our friends situated in this van? Are there seats that they are strapped into, or are they in stretchers? Are they bound?
2)Is it safe to assume that if we put a cyberdevil into Izzy's phone when he calls that the naagloshii will be able to tell immediately?
3)Does Molly have anything on her that Harry can use for a tracking spell on either of the hostages? A gift? Anything?
 
Artemis1992 said:
By the way, would Climate Change even be a thing in DF?

Would mundane influences on the atmosphere outweight, or even affect, the metaphysical powers affecting it?

Would global warming be impossible, or would it still exist?
And if it does, would that strenghten the Summer Court due to the relation of Power of Summer - Physical Effects of Summer going in both directions?
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We can assume ice ages still existed in Dresdenverse without completely destroying the balance system between courts (in fact we are still currently in the middle of a warmer period of a one, cause there is still ice on the poles), or the world map and history would be very different.

Which likely means the Summer-Winter balance should be between the relative (and likely mostly astronomical cosmic-symbolism-related) difference of winter and summer solstice, not absolute temperature. And those relatives update along with the climate cooling or warming. I mean, what would a "perfectly balanced" default world temperature even be?

So while magical imbalance could have a physical effect, physical change should not necessarily cause magical imbalance.
 
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uju32 said:
@DragonParadox
QUESTION
1)How are our friends situated in this van? Are there seats that they are strapped into, or are they in stretchers? Are they bound?
2)Is it safe to assume that if we put a cyberdevil into Izzy's phone when he calls that the naagloshii will be able to tell immediately?
3)Does Molly have anything on her that Harry can use for a tracking spell on either of the hostages? A gift? Anything?
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  1. Stretchers, not bound they are just unconscious
  2. You cannot really put cyberdevils into things just on remote contact, you need to have line of sight to it, that said if you did it odds are it could see it yeah
  3. On her no, but she could get something from their homes
 
DragonParadox said:
  1. Stretchers, not bound they are just unconscious
  2. You cannot really put cyberdevils into things just on remote contact, you need to have line of sight to it, that said if you did it odds are it could see it yeah
  3. On her no, but she could get something from their homes
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1)Urgh. If they were strapped in, I'd consider just YOLOing the entire thing into the river right now.
I still might; stunts arent supposed to be detrimental.
And hostages underwater in the river should trigger Transcendent Lord of Flies

2)You previously ruled that line of sight wasnt just sight, but perception. I quote:
DragonParadox said:
  1. Yes, by RaW it's line of sight, but I see no reason to discriminate against ears or other senses. If you can perceive something with your normal senses and you can conceptualize the thing you can ask about it
  2. Unfortunately not, his connection to it is too tangential
  3. Not that Bob's aware of no
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Are you changing that?

3)Hmm.
What if we gave Harry a lock of our hair to track Molly, and went ahead?
 
uju32 said:
1)Urgh. If they were strapped in, I'd consider just YOLOing the entire thing into the river right now.
I still might; stunts arent supposed to be detrimental.
And hostages underwater in the river should trigger Transcendent Lord of Flies

2)You previously ruled that line of sight wasnt just sight, but perception. I quote:

Are you changing that?

3)Hmm.
What if we gave Harry a lock of our hair to track Molly, and went ahead?
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  1. Oh sure, but it has to be your senses, you cannot just hear a phone at the other end of a call to put a demon in it, you would have to say hear it ring in another room
  2. Harry could definitely track you with a lock of hair
 
I'm not too enthused by the idea, and it would be a damned near criminal use of a favor from a godlike being, but we do have some favors from Mab we can use. It wouldn't be OOC for Molly to use one of them to save her friends, though that sets a very bad precedent, IMO.
 
Goldfish said:
I'm not too enthused by the idea, and it would be a damned near criminal use of a favor from a godlike being, but we do have some favors from Mab we can use. It wouldn't be OOC for Molly to use one of them to save her friends, though that sets a very bad precedent, IMO.
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At least if the favor is used in a very public manner that ends with some terrible fate for the Naagloshii it would have a secondary bonus.

The next person to mess with us will remember what happened (or is still happening in Mab's palace) to the last one who tried to attack us via our friends.
 
DragonParadox said:
  1. Oh sure, but it has to be your senses, you cannot just hear a phone at the other end of a call to put a demon in it, you would have to say hear it ring in another room
  2. Harry could definitely track you with a lock of hair
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Thats a definite change from how I recall it was discussed during the Museum Murders arc, when we were talking about calling as a telemarketer and hacking people's cellphones over the line.
Ah well. *shrug* Your table, your rules,
===

My immediate impulse was to use Alec or Izzy's social media to find the van, approach at top speed and just yeet it into the river. Then go full RVD horror-movie monster.

Its night, so if you're flying sixty feet above the ground you might as well be invisible to people on the ground under streetlights
And if she gives Harry a lock of her hair, he and Michael can follow.
But first Harry has to get here.

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VOTE
[X] Don't answer, keep him guessing until Harry gets here


When Harry gets here, then we answer the phone.
A ten minute delay seems well within normal limits, especially inside downtown Chicago, where tall buildings can lead to dead zones.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
Again just come down from on high and slice the roof off.
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1)Too slow. They can detect us on approach, and it will take multiple turns to cut through the roof. By the time you cut through the roof, they're dead.
2)And the naagloshii can shoot at us through the roof, while we cant retailate because of the hostages inside the van.
3)Its public. A flying woman glowing with green fire and wielding a bronze sword cutting through a van roof in downtown Chicago is the sort of thing that makes the Breaking News banner. Masquerade breach.
 
Goldfish said:
I'm not too enthused by the idea, and it would be a damned near criminal use of a favor from a godlike being, but we do have some favors from Mab we can use. It wouldn't be OOC for Molly to use one of them to save her friends, though that sets a very bad precedent, IMO.
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DragonParadox said:
You guys could also choose to actually talk to your opposition, maybe he will let something slip if you win social combat.
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Or we can combine them and threaten him w/ using the favor to get him killed.
If not today, then eventually because Winter is patient.
 
DragonParadox said:
You guys could also choose to actually talk to your opposition, maybe he will let something slip if you win social combat.
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"Hey there, Broken Seeker. My name is Molly, but you already know that, right? You should also know that every fucking thing that gets on my bad side dies the final death, Outsiders included. How special do you think you really are, godling?"
 
DragonParadox said:
You guys could also choose to actually talk to your opposition, maybe he will let something slip if you win social combat.
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The problem is as soon as he gets to threatening he is no longer uncertain about circumstances. For all he currently knows we are still in the never-never and can't take his call.
 
[X] Don't answer, keep him guessing until Harry gets here

Though I am not too sure about this. We are a socially specked exalt. We should try to talk it out. In principle, we could try CCC? Swear not to attack them, if they let us talk, or something like that, and just try to work them over.
fictionfan said:
The problem is as soon as he gets to threatening he is no longer uncertain about circumstances. For all he currently knows we are still in the never-never and can't take his call.
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That's not a given. Torture-oriented Intellectus gives him a lot of options, depending on how creative he is.
 
uju32 said:
1)Too slow. They can detect us on approach, and it will take multiple turns to cut through the roof. By the time you cut through the roof, they're dead.
2)And the naagloshii can shoot at us through the roof, while we cant retailate because of the hostages inside the van.
3)Its public. A flying woman glowing with green fire and wielding a bronze sword cutting through a van roof in downtown Chicago is the sort of thing that makes the Breaking News banner. Masquerade breach.
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1 Wrong at best they can tell Molly is in the city, that is it. Molly does agg damage even the most sever car crash is at most lethal. And a vans top is not reinforced like the sides are. Molly would slice thou the paper thin metal of a van's top faster then butter.
2 they would never notice us to attack us, and even if they do that good then not focusing on the hostages is a win. As for masquerade this is Dresden files way way bigger things get completely ignored all the time.
 
While we probably cannot convince naagloshii to let hostages go, we could possibly convince lesser skinwalkers to seek help and abandon their master. Base DC is 9, but with WHWH, DPE, BSM, and either CCC (to get past them) or tlf (protecting them from their environment) we could get it down to 3. Roll empathy for 20 total dice with a stunt, and we should have 15+ successes.
 
Yog said:
HMP is detectable. If we are far away while using it, we are far away and give them time to react.

For clearing the people out can someone tell me if USA cities have public announcement and warning systems? If so, we could stage a warning. Disruptive, but not "supernatural" disruptive.
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HMP is detectable if you're a specialist or are good and looking for it.

Harry didn't see Burny till he was pointed out to him against the background of his own home.

Such systems exist, but I don't see why it wouldn't end in the skinwalkers suspecting something is up or otherwise following the crowd.
Artemis1992 said:
By the way, would Climate Change even be a thing in DF?

Would mundane influences on the atmosphere outweight, or even affect, the metaphysical powers affecting it?

Would global warming be impossible, or would it still exist?
And if it does, would that strenghten the Summer Court due to the relation of Power of Summer - Physical Effects of Summer going in both directions?
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I think it'd just be that mundane stuff isn't the only or strongest thumb on the scale, and that the supernatural could solve the symptoms if any of them actually cared.

It's not like the physical stuff isn't real and observable, there's nothing like say a Percy Jackson style perception filter on reality or anything.
Goldfish said:
I'm not too enthused by the idea, and it would be a damned near criminal use of a favor from a godlike being, but we do have some favors from Mab we can use. It wouldn't be OOC for Molly to use one of them to save her friends, though that sets a very bad precedent, IMO.
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Don't let the favors burn a hole in our pocket. This isn't the most complicated or difficult challenge we'll have to face. Using one of those now could cost a lot of lives later, possibly including Izzy and Alec if they get caught up in one of the bigger things we're going to do later.
 
BronzeTongue said:
HMP is detectable if you're a specialist or are good and looking for it.

Harry didn't see Burny till he was pointed out to him against the background of his own home.

Such systems exist, but I don't see why it wouldn't end in the skinwalkers suspecting something is up or otherwise following the crowd.
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Broken Seeker is a semi-divine being with millenia of magical experience, and almost certainly has better senses than Harry. Katrina didn't detect HMP, but elder Skavis did. So, I would say it's up in the air whether naagloshii can detect it.
 
Climate Change is definitely a thing, Carbon and other Greenhouse Gases behave just as in our world, that said Winter is kind of interested in all the ice not melting because it's existence is bound up symbolically with the Court so it has a vested interest to push back. Alas Mab is kind of busy to be dealing with that at the moment and Mother Winter hasn't noticed since two centuries is a rather short time on the scale she operates on, she's taken longer naps.
 
Is there still a Dragon dealing with Air as a concept?
He (and whoever is responsible for Water) might also be interested in regulating that kind of thing.

Worst case it was Siriothrax and Micheal very recently killed the most likely actor to deal with atmospheric changes.
 
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