Remove ads

Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Reader mode
Yeah, if it was mundane Odin can get it.

The reason to go "All out" is to showcase what we can do. As it is, we owe him for services rendered and this is not just the here and now but in the future as well. Odin is looking for other exalted so even disregarding everything else, just being on good terms with him for that alone would be worth it.

I also want to go all out to truly see what we can do with Craft.
 
Votes tied. The choice is mundane stuff Odin can just buy and to try and experiment some boderline magic craft.
 
Last edited:
Yog said:
In the update before the last we traded Odin's minion a minor piece of information in order to establish an untraceable supply of materials, including, explicitly, enriched uranium. I know (in broad strokes) how to make enriched uranium. And I know, in broad strokes, the tolerances needed and the equipment needed to manufacture main battle tanks. Enriched uranium is much harder, much more controlled and in less supply.

If Odin wanted something mortal-tier, like tanks, he would buy it. Possibly officially, through an intermediary in, say, India or Africa.

No, what he needs is stuff of the quality mortals simply can't provide. And that means we need to concentrate on one thing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
1) I dont agree.
For one thing, they said enriched uranium. Not weapons-grade/high-enriched uranium..
Low-enriched uranium (<20% U235) is pretty commonly used in commercial and research reactors around the world.


2) Also, this is 2006 IC. 16 years since the fall of the Soviet Union.

For a while there we were close to awash in nuclear material coming out of the former Soviet states, and not just LEU either; we have public records of at least 7 known attempts at smuggling or selling weapons-grade enriched uranium/HEU from the former Soviet Union between 1994 and 1995, and thats what made the news

Not to mention there was Pakistan's whole nuclear black market dealie around the same time..
And North Korea is still selling shit on a cash and carry basis.


I would assert that its easier to get your hands on LEU than on heavy metal for a PMC.
Too much attention involved in it.
If nothing else, Id say Odin et al established stockpiles, or still have quiet suppliers.
 
Last edited:
Yzarc said:
Yeah, if it was mundane Odin can get it.

The reason to go "All out" is to showcase what we can do. As it is, we owe him for services rendered and this is not just the here and now but in the future as well. Odin is looking for other exalted so even disregarding everything else, just being on good terms with him for that alone would be worth it.

I also want to go all out to truly see what we can do with Craft.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
1) If he only wanted one vehicle type, he would ask for one vehicle type.
The fact that he asked for both means that he sees a need for both.When Odin, the Norse god associated with war and foresight, is asking for heavy metal, he sees a need for it.

Overdoing one assignment and leaving the other undone is not a good thing.


2) We have no need to impress him; he had reports on what we were capable of from Gard, who saw Molly build an EMP bomb from hardware store parts. AND he has regular meetings with Uriel. AND Mab.
Plus as Santa Claus, he has one of the best intelligence networks in the supernatural world.


3)We are Craft 3, Tech 2, Alchemy 2, and lack both the Exalted Crafting Charm and Enchantment Path.
We are not equipped to go all out.
 
uju32 said:
The fact that he asked for both means that he sees a need for both.When Odin, the Norse god associated with war and foresight, is asking for heavy metal, he sees a need for it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
He can always buy or get it from another way. He can literally supply us with enriched uranium. So he can get all the mundane stuff he wants.
 
Yzarc said:
He can always buy or get it from another way. He can literally supply us with enriched uranium. So he can get all the mundane stuff he wants.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So I'm curious with this reasoning, if he doesn't need both and can easily buy the other one, why does he offer two options? If he just wanted to see what we're currently capable of, wouldn't it be better to offer just one request?

I think I agree with Uju that Odin thinks he's going to need both in the future and I'd rather make two, even if they're not as powerful as they would be if we concentrated fully on one.

In addition, he has both one of the best information networks in the world, and talks with Mab and Uriel, who know that we are powerful and only our ability to exorcise Nemesis would be enough for him to want to make deals and alliances, much less when our Hell appears and our promise to allow travel on our land applies to an entire NeverNever realm.
 
To note is that the vote is not about which one we are making if not both, it's about which one we concentrate our efforts on.

In that optic, going for both is indeed not optimal because we risk having both at the level of quality he can buy without out help, whereas concentrating on one allows us to make sure that this one is worthy of Exalted crafting, while the other is a more normal quality.

Uju is wrong is he is saying that we will make only one if we vote for only one.
 
[X]The 'Slick' given the kinds of enemies they are fighting the ability to slip unseen and still pack a punch is likely to be the most valuable
 
Yzarc said:
He can always buy or get it from another way. He can literally supply us with enriched uranium. So he can get all the mundane stuff he wants.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
1) Bear with me here:
If so, why is he asking us to do it? I mean, assume that the millenia-old Norse god is rational, why would he burn a favor from an Infernal Exalt, someone he knows has the power to kill a renegade Valkyrie 1v1 and to murder a greater akuma, someone he has reason to know was being courted by Mab and has Uriel's eye, on stuff that he can buy on the open market?


2) Enriched uranium isnt as rare as people think.
He isnt offering us high-enriched uranium, otherwise known as weapons-grade uranium. He is offering us enriched uranium.
Good chance it's low-enriched uranium, such as is used for energy production.

Commercial reactors use it. Research reactors use it. There's a fair amount of it about.
According to this:

Uranium Markets - World Nuclear Association

Production from world uranium mines has in recent years supplied 90% of the requirements of power utilities. Primary production from mines is supplemented by secondary supplies, principally by ex-military material.
world-nuclear.org
440 reactors globally require 62,000 tons of uranium every year.
That has to undergo enrichment of course, but still, we're talking thousands or tens of thousands of tons of LEU yearly.

And according to this:
The commercial cost of fabricating fuel is around $200-400/kg as of 2021
 
Last edited:
Nyarky said:
To note is that the vote is not about which one we are making if not both, it's about which one we concentrate our efforts on.

In that optic, going for both is indeed not optimal because we risk having both at the level of quality he can buy without out help, whereas concentrating on one allows us to make sure that this one is worthy of Exalted crafting, while the other is a more normal quality.

Uju is wrong is he is saying that we will make only one if we vote for only one.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah. Pretty much this.

@DragonParadox said that he would have just made rolls but put it to vote so we can do something special if we wanted to.
DragonParadox said:
OOC: I thought about just rolling though, you guys had some cool ideas for the car, I wanted to give you a chance to do that here as well. And also in how you fuffil your commission send a bit of a message to Odin. What kind of wondersmith are you?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Underlined part for emphasis.

If we are just going mundane, why bother with the vote at all?
 
uju32 said:
1) Bear with me here:
If so, why is he asking us to do it? I mean, assume that the millenia-old Norse god is rational, why would he burn a favor from an Infernal Exalt, someone he knows has the power to kill a renegade Valkyrie 1v1 and to murder a greater akuma, someone he has reason to know was being courted by Mab and has Uriel's eye, on stuff that he can buy on the open market?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We are doing both no matter what, your option is the one that risk not making it worth his while, so why are you trying to divide out our attention and have both not be Exalted crafting, while we can have one we don't concentrate as much on, leading to a more mundane result, with the other one absolutely sure to be worthy of this favor?

As for why he is asking us to do it: He can simply be testing us, you know.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Jul 23, 2023 at 10:25 AM, finished with 128 posts and 20 votes.
  • [X]Plan Vulcan
    -[X] Divide your attention equally between both
    --[X] Write in suggestions for the vehicles (Optional)
    ---[X]Slick: Modified Suburban
    ---[X]Heavy: Boxer AFV
    --[X]Boiling Sea Mastery, Without Honor, MHM, ATB, Craft, Occult and Leadership Excellencies
    -[X]STUNT: Your breath comes out in a white cloud in the chill of a New England autumn, even as around you teams of elves focus on subcomponent fabrication and assembly. A thought calls up additional industrial tools from the depths of your anima, and you begin to work on the first of several sets of computing hardware to support the vehicle designs that Clippy is currently projecting at the far end of the workspace.
    [X] Plan Bond, Odin Bond
    -[X]The 'Slick' given the kinds of enemies they are fighting the ability to slip unseen and still pack a punch is likely to be the most valuable
    --[X] TTC, MHM, BSM, WHWH, Craft, Occult, and Leadership Excellencies, ATB with willpower for quality control
    --[X] Have Clippy pull up plans we used when designing Mab's car to have something to start working with. If locals have access to internet or technical drawings of cars, use those too for inspiration.
    --[X] Transcendent Lord of Flies invoking environmental protection
    ---[X] Install chemical warfare-rated air filtration system
    ---[X] Make the vehicle interior airtight when neede, and install an internal air regeneration system
    ---[X] Thermally insulate the interior and the fuel system, so the car can function in harsh conditions
    ---[X] Make the windows bullet-resistant and also IR and UF opaque; make the windows electrochrome (opaque when a switch is flipped)
    ---[X] Install advanced air conditioner capable of lowering the temperature inside below freezing if needed
    ---[X] Advanced sound isolation of the interior with active acoustic sensors instead to hear what's going on inside
    --[X] MIrror coating
    ---[X] Coat the superstructure, i.e. car's skeleton in it in order to increase structural integrity
    ---[X] Coat car's components that wear down, like ball bearings and engine's cylinders in order to be able to overclock the car's
    ---[X] The fuels line and cabling lines, in order to protect the car from internal explosions and/or combustion
    ---[X] The car body to act as armor. Make the body laminated in multiple layers of mirror and normal material, with a normal material outside.
    --[X] The composition of the car, internals and externals
    ---[X] Install as many redundancies as possible, and harden everything against entropic curses (techbane). Ideally, you want mechanical, hydraulic, and electrical systems acting as backups for each other.
    ---[X] Hybrid power (electrical and combustion fuel)
    ---[X] Airless tires masquerading as normal ones, with mirror-coated lightweight internal support structure
    --[X] The bag of tricks
    ---[X] Flippable license plates
    ---[X] Hidden trunk compartment for contraband
    ---[X] Concealable weapon compartments reachable from the interior
    ---[X] Hidden hardpoints in the trunk for securing prisoners
    ---[X] Electrical arc light projecting system capable of going bright enough to blind the opposition if needed
    ---[X] A megaphone / siren
    ---[X] Gas dispersal system
    -[X] Stunt: As you finish laying out the plan for a vehicle you envisioned on a huge organic-looking flatscreen conjured by your powers, you take a chilly breath and once again look around your environment. In the corner, a giant cauldron is being stirred, a rich quicksilver-like substance sloshing inside, small details already machined periodically being dipped in. All around you, your minions unpaid interns move with purpose and direction, already following your directions. And in the center of the room, a skeleton of a vehicle is slowly taking shape. Once it is assembled, it'll look like nothing more than a simple car. For now, a far more complex and alien interior structure is obvious.
    [X] The 'Heavy' If Monoc needs this kind of firepower things have really gone south
    -[x] Powered by a nuclear reactor this helicopter can fly all the way around the world if it needs to, of course given the price of the radioactive materials needed for fuel it is unlikely to be used that often. It's hexagonal honey comb paneling of one way mirrors mean that the passengers have no blind spots even without the high tech sensor system. Of course the armor isn't just for looking through, but is capable of bouncing just about all anti air weapons.
    [X] The 'Heavy' If Monoc needs this kind of firepower things have really gone south
    -[x] You remember an old TV show about an Airwolf, a helicopter with lots of hidden weapons. You can do better, bumping it up to squad size and incorporating modern stealth technology and noise cancelation.
    [X] Divide your attention equally between both
    -[X] Light: A SUV with tinted windows, unassuming at first glance but unnerving under close examination. A scratch in the point reveals an smooth iridescent surface no blade or bullet can mar. A careful listen to the engine reveals that it's pitch doesn't change at all as the vehicle accelerates. The suspension rides *too* smooth.
    -[X] Heavy: It *looks* like a BMP-2, but that camouflage is only skin deep. Inside there's a single continuous crew compartment, without any driver or gunner spaces. The tracks on closer examination are made of contiguous rubber coated bands. And it shares its lighter cousin's... oddities.
    --[X] Inscribed into the bodies and armor are lines of silver the form interlocked magical circles, each doing its part to shield the vehicle's occupants from magic. Even the circuit boards - made with more conductive silver rather than gold - are laid out to make the hex of magic flow over them.
    --[X] If the cyber devils represent a unacceptable security breach, then we can switch to remote control from the passenger compartment, with VR glasses and controllers... through that will be less capable overall. The decision is up to Piotr.
    [X] The 'Heavy' If Monoc needs this kind of firepower things have really gone south
    -[X] KISS- Look up designs for existing military vehicles, and ask Old Piotr what he would fix in them, then build the result, with various incremental improvements based on the advantage of artisanal precision over massproduction and what flashes of inspiration you might find.
    -[X] Stunt: As you look through various designs a picture is forming in your mind. The classic Bradley would be a good start, but too small to hold two squads and a driver, while the firepower was barely acceptable. The British Warrior vehicle was slightly larger and with a better start in firepower. In your thoughts you see the upgraded engine coming together, capable of driving a vehicle made for 12 men at nearly the same speed, while you considered if an additional missile-launcher would be more help or vulnerability on the top.
    [x]The 'Slick' given the kinds of enemies they are fighting the ability to slip unseen and still pack a punch is likely to be the most valuable
    -[x] SUV and truck discrete and dull color, the front a complex arrangement of instruments to serve as a mobile command center. In the back a housing rack of drone carriers. Fly by drones with micro missiles, stealth drones silent, and able to hover for hours over target to feed data to agents, and provide targeting solutions, to ground agents, and other drones, Gunship drones like the HMP able to accompany agents to provide sustained fire support.
    [x]The 'Slick' given the kinds of enemies they are fighting the ability to slip unseen and still pack a punch is likely to be the most valuable
Click to expand...
 
Yzarc said:
Yeah. Pretty much this.
@DragonParadox said that he would have just made rolls but put it to vote so we can do something special if we wanted to.

Underlined part for emphasis.
If we are just going mundane, why bother with the vote at all?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You are mistaken.
The question is about which vehicle we pay most attention to.
It says nothing about being mundane. Or aiming for mundane results.
Nyarky said:
We are doing both no matter what, your option is the one that risk not making it worth his while, so why are you trying to divide out our attention and have both not be Exalted crafting, while we can have one we don't concentrate as much on, leading to a more mundane result, with the other one absolutely sure to be worthy of this favor?

As for why he is asking us to do it: He can simply be testing us, you know.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is not true.I quote:
DragonParadox said:
Which of the Projects do you focus on the most?

[] The 'Heavy' If Monoc needs this kind of firepower things have really gone south
-[] Write in suggestions for the vehicles (Optional)

[]The 'Slick' given the kinds of enemies they are fighting the ability to slip unseen and still pack a punch is likely to be the most valuable
-[] Write in suggestions for the vehicles (Optional)

[] Divide your attention equally between both
-[] Write in suggestions for the vehicles (Optional)

OOC: I thought about just rolling though, you guys had some cool ideas for the car, I wanted to give you a chance to do that here as well. And also in how you fuffil your commission send a bit of a message to Odin. What kind of wondersmith are you?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Odin wants both, or he wouldnt have asked for it.
Focusing on one being completed to transcendental levels and the other only getting passing attention isnt a great result, for much the same reason that doing all your studying on math and getting an A+ but a C or D on everything else isnt one.


-There's this misconception Im seeing about something not being Exalted crafting.

Molly is throwing Dex 4 + Craft 3 + Excellency 7 + Without Honor 2 + Stunt 2 at this problem from her end for a total of 18 dice, in addition to Boiling Sea Mastery acting as a DC reducer, and the 25x assisting elves throwing their own dice into the pool.
There's more dice in play here than there were when we raised a hearth god.


-Why would he be testing us on this?
Nobody expends Celestial Exalt favors on a test, especially since its not like they are easy to replenish.

Not to mention that we have canon characterization, and Odin doesnt test people that way.
Suboptimal results and miscommunications in fabricating this stuff will cost him people and battles, and the sort of people he finds worthy to be his Valks and Einherjar arent easy to find or replace or resurrect.

Soulfire is renewable, but it isnt free.
 
Last edited:
Just going back a step, drones were mentioned before, it's worth recognising how valuable they are to a mechanised infantry company.
 
uju32 said:
Odin wants both, or he wouldnt have asked for it.
Focusing on one being completed to transcendental levels and the other only getting passing attention isnt a great result, for much the same reason that doing all your studying on math and getting an A+ but a C or D on everything else isnt one.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is about what we favor, pretty clearly. Heavy is Malfean, or Lanka option. Subtle is Ebon Dragon or Kakuri option. We are doing both anyway, but the question is "what do we communicate to Odin about our pferenses and dispositions". And while I personally like bright and flashy, going for subtle here is a better option.
uju32 said:
Molly is throwing Dex 4 + Craft 3 + Excellency 7 + Without Honor 2 + Stunt 2 at this problem from her end for a total of 18 dice, in addition to Boiling Sea Mastery acting as a DC reducer, and the 25x assisting elves throwing their own dice into the pool.
There's more dice in play here than there were when we raised a hearth god.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Communal rituals with dice pools combining are a prevalence of magic only, if I understand correctly. Otherwise the system breaks down very quickly when ten roughly skilled mortals can surpass a specialized Essence 5 exalt.
uju32 said:
-Why would he be testing us on this?
Nobody expends Celestial Exalt favors on a test, especially since its not like they are easy to replenish.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Because this is a multilayered transaction / communication / test / negotiation. This is not the last time we ask Odin for stuff / backup. This is likely not the last time he approaches us to obtain something from us either. He needs to know what we do and how we do it.
 
Alratan said:
Just going back a step, drones were mentioned before, it's worth recognising how valuable they are to a mechanised infantry company.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Molly has high school tech skills outside of mechanics. She isn't actually capable of doing the computing aspect of drones without cyber devils, which she can't exactly give away.

Especially since there's a difference between the deal the cyber devils agree to when joining up with us and effectively selling them into slavery.
 
Alratan said:
Just going back a step, drones were mentioned before, it's worth recognising how valuable they are to a mechanised infantry company.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
My understanding is that drones at the battalion-tier and below are essentially munitions. Expendable.
If you are building them, you need to maintain a reliable supply, and the logistical supply train to keep you stocked.
We cant build those for Odin.

Its the same problem with exotic weapons; we dont have the logistical tail to do shit like mass introduction of railguns.

Not to mention that with drones specifically, we dont know enough to guarantee they cant get hijacked or subverted by hostile magic or magitech.
Not without putting cyberdevils inside, which is a no-go for several reasons.
Yog said:
This is about what we favor, pretty clearly. Heavy is Malfean, or Lanka option. Subtle is Ebon Dragon or Kakuri option. We are doing both anyway, but the question is "what do we communicate to Odin about our pferenses and dispositions". And while I personally like bright and flashy, going for subtle here is a better option.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I dont see it.
I do not see Odin as actually being quite so gullible as to think that an 18-year olds choice in Craft projects says anything conclusive about their preferences or dispositions.

Especially when that Craft project is payment for someone else.

Yog said:
Communal rituals with dice pools combining are a prevalence of magic only, if I understand correctly. Otherwise the system breaks down very quickly when ten roughly skilled mortals can surpass a specialized Essence 5 exalt.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No they arent.
Teamwork rolls are a thing in both M20 and V20, and arent restricted to magic. Page 253 of V20, if I recall correctly.
Cant recall the page for M20.

Yog said:
Because this is a multilayered transaction / communication / test / negotiation. This is not the last time we ask Odin for stuff / backup. This is likely not the last time he approaches us to obtain something from us either. He needs to know what we do and how we do it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Donnar Vadderung/Kris Kringle/Odin has one of the best supernatural intelligence networks in the Dresdenverse.
He parlays with Mab and Uriel. He has no need for multilayered imprecise tests to get Molly's measure, and good reason to avoid antagonizing her unnecessarily by making her jump through unnecessary hoops.

Is he paying attention to and assessing information on and about our behavior? Yes.
Is he risking his own people and wasting a valuable favor by playing fuck fuck games with equipment procurement guidelines? No.
The man didnt earn the loyalty of his people by risking their lives and limbs unnecessarily.
 
[X] Plan Bond, Odin Bond

I like the idea, and I want our first properly commissioned work to include something that really demonstrates why to use us over stuff that you can get elsewhere.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top