Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Molly is unlikely to believe the Council is apolitical.

I'm sure it's apolitical! Just like Call of Duty claimed to be once! You just had to ignore that their definition of political removed all political books about extrapolations or other hypothetical situations! :V

They are a police force, they can claim to be apolitical all they wants, they are by their very nature, there is more to being political than being a government.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Apr 21, 2023 at 6:08 AM, finished with 62 posts and 15 votes.

  • [X] [REVEAL] Yes: Write in suggestions
    -[X] Empathy excellency and all things betray
    -[X] Flight is a good example for visual demonstration, not too intimidating. After that, talk about what Maria can do, and what benefits there are to knowing about magic.
    [X] [QUESTION] Yes
    -[X] preload occult excellency, and all things betray to better interpet the answer
    -[X] As a stranger passes by, nearly bumping into Olivia, your eyes narrow, taking in the whole of the scene, and a question comes to the forefront of your mind "In what was exactly was the magic I am seeing twisted from its natural expression?"
    -[X] You hold a lock of Olivia's hair in your hand, and cast your gaze upon it, seeking the identity of the being who distorted her magic. As soon as you get an answer, you burn it into ashes with a quickly conjured burner.
    -[X] You look at Olivia's favorite earrings, glad that she chose to wear them tonight, and ask "for what reason was the magic of the owner of these earrings twisted?"
    [X] [REVEAL] No, let her take the lead
    [X] [REVEAL] Yes: Listen to Usum for proper INFERNAL GLORY
    [X] [QUESTION] Yes
    -[X][FOCUS]Seek the identities of the persons involved/responsible for sealing Olivia's magic
    [X] [QUESTION] Yes
 
Note that there is no Law against it. Just custom and policy. Merlin didnt put his opinions into Law.
Morgan fought in a major war iirc(either WW1, or sometime in the 19th century), and I think McCoy was active during the Indian Wars. So their success appears to not always be perfect.
It's not just custom and policy, it's one of the Council's primary reasons for existing:

Our biggest issue: why don't wizards just WIN (in pre-complex tech eras)? I argued for the sliding scale of "born in X, advanced tech shows up in Y" idea… but it's not satisfying.
They kinda /do/ win. It's one reason the White Council thinks of itself as something so ohmygodmighty important. But bear in mind a few things:
1) The White Council /exists/ in order to limit the power of wizards. These days, it's mostly about keeping wizards out of the black magic–but in the past, it was also to keep wizards out of politics. They would show up as advisers, rarely (most "court wizards" were charlatans or underpowered schmucks), but the Council itself was very much against getting involved in things.
That's mainly because if the Council threw its weight in anywhere, it was all but guaranteeing a civil war among its own members. (Remember, it's very Euro-centric.)
The original Merlin learned a lesson about wizards involving themselves in politics. They already have too much power to use wisely, from his point of view.

Also worth noting that the council has been around since before the fall of Rome, and it's canon that globally they're the only game in town for full wizards. The next biggest splinter faction Kemmler's idiot brigade, which is still composed of his slowly dwindling first generation apprentices.

They don't really care about sorcerers as long as they don't break the laws, and there are other supernatural powers that occasionally get wizards, but otherwise they've monopolized the mortal end of things.

Something that doesn't make sense if we treat them as the frustrating but affable incompetents Harry sees them as. Dresden is a top 10% wizard with family connections he didn't know about working in his favor. His perspective on power dynamics is skewed.

While not explicitly stated, this situation directly implies some things about how the white council is likely to interact with credible threats to its monopoly. If they didn't stomp all over anyone who credibly threatened it or their ability to enforce the laws on practitioners of all stripes then they wouldn't have been able to maintain the position they have in canon.
 
We know that they feel threatened by this in canon. During Proven Guilty, Gregori Cristos threatenes that if he does not get LaFortiers Senior Council seat, he would take his followers and leave the organization, and once its clear that a significant number would follow him, the council almost immediately caves and ignores their own oh so important rule to give him the position.
 
We know that they feel threatened by this in canon. During Proven Guilty, Gregori Cristos threatenes that if he does not get LaFortiers Senior Council seat, he would take his followers and leave the organization, and once its clear that a significant number would follow him, the council almost immediately caves and ignores their own oh so important rule to give him the position.
I'm not trying to say they're perfect, just that the absence of dozens of independent wizarding powers says something in the context of human nature. The only way they could stay on top like that for as long as they have is if they've been wildly successful at stomping on any upstarts. Internal challenges are always complicated, but it doesn't negate the general point.
 
I'm not trying to say they're perfect, just that the absence of dozens of independent wizarding powers says something in the context of human nature. The only way they could stay on top like that for as long as they have is if they've been wildly successful at stomping on any upstarts. Internal challenges are always complicated, but it doesn't negate the general point.
I didnt mean to say it contradicted any of your points. I was largely agreeing, just giving an example of the problems they face there.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Apr 21, 2023 at 8:17 AM, finished with 67 posts and 15 votes.

  • [X] [REVEAL] Yes: Write in suggestions
    -[X] Empathy excellency and all things betray
    -[X] Flight is a good example for visual demonstration, not too intimidating. After that, talk about what Maria can do, and what benefits there are to knowing about magic.
    [X] [QUESTION] Yes
    -[X] preload occult excellency, and all things betray to better interpet the answer
    -[X] As a stranger passes by, nearly bumping into Olivia, your eyes narrow, taking in the whole of the scene, and a question comes to the forefront of your mind "In what was exactly was the magic I am seeing twisted from its natural expression?"
    -[X] You hold a lock of Olivia's hair in your hand, and cast your gaze upon it, seeking the identity of the being who distorted her magic. As soon as you get an answer, you burn it into ashes with a quickly conjured burner.
    -[X] You look at Olivia's favorite earrings, glad that she chose to wear them tonight, and ask "for what reason was the magic of the owner of these earrings twisted?"
    [X] [REVEAL] No, let her take the lead
    [X] [REVEAL] Yes: Listen to Usum for proper INFERNAL GLORY
    [X] [QUESTION] Yes
    -[X][FOCUS]Seek the identities of the persons involved/responsible for sealing Olivia's magic
    [X] [QUESTION] Yes
 
Arc 6 Post 45: Of Cold Counsel
Of Cold Counsel

6th of October 2006 A.D.

Maria's 'Alex' or to use his full name as Clippy had found it Alexander Glezos is the grandson of Greek and Georgian immigrants, the VP of a small real-estate agency, family owned a soccer and ice hokey fan and, most importantly for your purposes, a man of no particularly strong religious or spiritual beliefs. Not that being religious keeps one from understanding magic for what it is of course, but the best way to reveal such a thing is rather different. For Izzy and Alec it had been superheroes, for Cindy it had been Harry Potter, for someone who thinks of himself as a rational man in a reasonable world you're going to have to take a page out of Daedalus' Book.

"Remember it's ESP and psychic power, not magic," you coach Maria. "You can get him to more sensible terms later, but right now what you have to do is get a foot in the conceptual door and er... explain why you did not tell him any of this stuff already."

She blushes, motioning at the stacks of paper stacked neatly on the kitchen table. "So that's what all this is about? Technobabble?"

"Nah, technobabble's easy, just the stuff I told you about, this is all reports from vaguely scientifically sounding organizations about how they did tests to find psychic powers and got something other than a flat no. I'm pretty sure 80% of it is bunk, but we don;t need it as actual proof, just as rhetorical cover after we provide the proof, not to mention...." you shuffle a five page stack like they were playing cards. "This is all stuff about alphabet agencies getting into looking for magic, sure it's all presented as 'look at what they have been wasting our tax money on', but it's there."

"I'm not really worried about the government," she points out, but you just shake your head.

"No, you are worried about vampires, but introducing vampires together with the magic is more likely to freak him out, everyone knows why you should be concerned about Agent Smith knocking at your door."

"I'm sorry all this feels really cold." She shuffles uncomfortably in her seat.

Maybe you should have asked advice from someone warmer then, you bite your tongue on the annoyed retort which Usum calls 'coddling her'. "If you want to cover everything in a manner someone entirely mundane can deal with in days rather than months or years you have to meet them where they are."

So it goes, like clockwork, like code being compiled. Absent the emotional investment of dealing with your friends or the sympathy you felt for Cindy the whole situation from doorbell's ring to clink of whiskey glass, you do not talk about your age or your inability to get drunk, feels almost scripted. No, not quite. It feels like a video game. Prod Maria just so with a joke or a hint and she will tell a story of her childhood that sounds funny rather than scary to the man across the table. You might not be looking for his darkest heart, but you can still read him in every gesture, every blink, every breath.

OK so maybe I am a cold bitch, you think behind a carefully calibrated smile as you say your goodbyes, but I'm the cold bitch that got them talking without a hitch. Maria and her fiance had started talking about magical kids, giving you sideways awkward looks, hence why you are leaving. That's got to be worth something.

"To them it is worth the world majesty,"
Usum says, sounding wistful, almost nice. "The whole of their narrow world." Almost

***​

7th of October 2006 A.D.

The next day both you and Lydia are invited to the wedding, the decorations are pretty, the cake is delicious, if you do say so yourself and the people are nice, even if they don't quite know what to make of the two of the two girls not related to anyone nor known friends of bride or groom. Despite that both of you are such wallflowers you might be mistaken for a floral print, in her case because of shyness and in yours because you do not want to draw a target on the back of some guy you met at a wedding and danced with twice. Really that is another argument why Harry is perfect for you, he is used to that kind of attention and he can take it.

"I finally got emancipated," Lydia half-shouts over the loud dance music.

"Oh so that's why you were so happy, I was starting to wonder if I should be seriously questioning Daniel."

She rolls her eyes. "Speaking of Daniel he's..." You do not think the pause is just from a swelling of the music . "Well he's feeling a bit left out with all this stuff that's going on, He wants to help, he wants to be there in the next fight not just be left wondering if we'll come back. He's trying to learn as much as he can, but there's only so much power you can get out of a book. There's a part of me that worries that I'm pushing him into this just by being near him. What do you think? Am I being selfish?"

Your first impulse is to say no instantly, but the thought you just had about Harry comes back to you. Daniel is brave and he is clever, but how much more ready is he really than Maria's second cousin to fight vampires, ghosts, fey and worse things?

What do you reply?

[] Assure Lydia that it'll be OK

[] If the problem is power maybe you could make some stuff for Daniel eventually, they'll probably help Izzy and Alec in an emergency as well

[] Write in


OOC: Since you guys rolled 10 successes for perception and for coaching Maria and this was a normal human with normal human amounts of willpower I thought I'd do something different and show just what it feels like to have that amount of control in a social situation.
 
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With those rolls he might as well have been a child we were telling about Santa. We could have convinced him of anything.
 
[x] If the problem is power maybe you could make some stuff for Daniel eventually, they'll probably help Izzy and Alec in an emergency as well
-[X] And maybe see if he actually has any gift that can be trained? Mom might be mad, but it's better he trains with you than seeks something more shady. (Commit to training Daniel)
 
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[X] Assure Lydia that it'll be OK
-[X] Stunt: Life's never without risk. He knows more than most of what he's getting into. He's definitely old enough to choose for himself.
 
[X] Assure Lydia that it'll be OK
-[X] Stunt: Life's never without risk. He knows more than most of what he's getting into. He's definitely old enough to choose for himself.
[x] If the problem is power maybe you could make some stuff for Daniel eventually, they'll probably help Izzy and Alec in an emergency as well
-[X] And maybe see if some coaching can help? Mom might be mad, but it would be better if he has help training, than doing so with just books.
 
I'm concerned that Daniel could be feeling inadequate due to a skewed perspective.

His father is a Knight of the Cross, Harry Dresden is a family friend, his big sister is some kind good hell knight and his girlfriend is a demigod of death.

Even Chad Thundercock would be feeling small around all that.

Although I'm not sure what could be given that would be significant without binding Molly's brother.
 
[X] If the problem is power maybe you could make some stuff for Daniel eventually, they'll probably help Izzy and Alec in an emergency as well
 
Daniel doesn't have any business getting involved in supernatural shit right now, whether we make him neat stuff or not. Even skilled and gifted muggles with years of experience are barely above fodder in the circles we now move in, and Daniel isn't any of those things.

The best thing he could do is buckle down and do an extended training montage for the next few years.
 
If you had rolled lower I would have rolled for Maria with bonuses from your successes, but as is yeah... It Just Works (TM)

We could have burst into song, I have just the tune!



Although I'm not sure what could be given that would be significant without binding Molly's brother.

Push him into a maggot pit, satisfaction guaranteed!

Anyway:

[x] Yog
 
Fidelacchius is currently available, possibly. If we commit to empowering him, and buy Devil-Refining Cauldron, we could make a naagloshii into a powerful weapon. After we get our kingdom, cybernetic enchantments should be available.
I don't think the Naagloshii would make a good weapon for a regular mortal.

Too powerful, too evil.

An Infernal could certainly wield such a weapon, with an Incarna-tier Demon inside, but a normal person, even with Carpenter Willpower might be in danger.
 
We could have burst into song, I have just the tune!





Push him into a maggot pit, satisfaction guaranteed!

Anyway:

[x] Yog


I mean if you want to awaken demonic power in Daniel you have better and cheaper charms than that one for the purpose. The maggot pit one is more what you use if you have one of the Lords of the Outer Night as a prisoner somehow and want to make them your eternal thrall. You know normal Infernal stuff. :V
 
I mean if you want to awaken demonic power in Daniel you have better and cheaper charms than that one for the purpose. The maggot pit one is more what you use if you have one of the Lords of the Outer Night as a prisoner somehow and want to make them your eternal thrall. You know normal Infernal stuff. :V

Yeah but the others don't have the imagery, you know. :V
 
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