Or a nice introductions to a fight to the death.
Also:
Wrong bracket.
Not voting yet, not sure what to do here.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Or a nice introductions to a fight to the death.
Also:
Wrong bracket.
Not voting yet, not sure what to do here.
Well, yes. Still, at this point the elder knows that we have cyberdevils, which, on one thing don't seem to be that rare (so not a complete OCP), but on the other remain our primary stealth asset. We either need to win him over, and ensure his silence, or murder him. I prefer negotiations. Thus, introductions. For which, personally, I would go with: "I am my father's eldest daughter, and while my sword isn't named Amorachus, it's no lesser in my hand"Or a nice introductions to a fight to the death.
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- Pronouns
- ImBuda
[X] Admit you do not know what he's talking about
-[X] Trade the information for introduction.
-[X] STUNT: You do not turn, continuing to search for and erase the data from the computer, even as you answer him, keeping to your role, for now: "Manifold are whispers one can hear across four corners of the world, if one has ears to listen, and plentiful are those that would make the wise weary. Which ones have your attention? Tell me, and in exchange I shall share with you a truth that will put your mind at ease"
Guys this might be an adventure, we could gain more exp to the encounter with Mab!!!
-[X] Trade the information for introduction.
-[X] STUNT: You do not turn, continuing to search for and erase the data from the computer, even as you answer him, keeping to your role, for now: "Manifold are whispers one can hear across four corners of the world, if one has ears to listen, and plentiful are those that would make the wise weary. Which ones have your attention? Tell me, and in exchange I shall share with you a truth that will put your mind at ease"
Guys this might be an adventure, we could gain more exp to the encounter with Mab!!!
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah, my first impulse is to fish for information framed as "how much do you know?" Like we know what's going on but we don't know how much other people know. It's probably even true, if the rumors are actually about us or stuff we've caused.
Edit: example stunt to get across my point: "Oh? And what rumors have reached the ears of the White Court, pray tell? It would be amusing to hear what conclusions come from someone missing half the pieces."
Edit: example stunt to get across my point: "Oh? And what rumors have reached the ears of the White Court, pray tell? It would be amusing to hear what conclusions come from someone missing half the pieces."
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- Location
- United States
[X] Ignore the elder Whampire's prodding and continue extracting the information from Sarah's computer.
taovkool
Forever Gone
- Location
- The Library, Department of General Works
[X] Ignore the elder Whampire's prodding and continue extracting the information from Sarah's computer.
I'm just gonna go with ignore here. Honestly getting tired of the back and forth, and silence is a virtue and all that.
I'm just gonna go with ignore here. Honestly getting tired of the back and forth, and silence is a virtue and all that.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[x]"As usual most of the rumors are wrong"
This is kind of the perfect cover for us, and an example of bias pushing people towards wrong but reasonable conclusions it'll take a while to dig their way out of.
He probably thinks we're in town to do something about the archfiend. A Jade summoner good enough to keep demons safely hidden in her soul sounds like the person you send to go after a high roller from the thousand hells if you've got one available.
What I've already said aside, I think this is the wrong approach. A Jade demonologist showing up in the wake of something that sounds like a high roller from the thousand hells strains credulity. It's possible, but it's the kind of coincidence that makes people take a second look.
I think it'd be better to imply we do know who he's talking about, but frame the information exchange as getting the latest gossip from a local. Same effect, but it doesn't unsettle the verisimilitude of our current mask as much.
I also strongly disagree with any true introduction here and now. It serves no real useful purpose; we can get everything we want and leave them looking in the wrong direction by simply keeping our mouths shut.
The ideal is to never share anything without some reasonable estimate of the risk, cause to believe the return is worth taking it, and no viable alternate routes to the same ends. That can't always happen, but working with that in mind significantly reduces the rate at which silly little slips get you screwed because they helped someone put the puzzle pieces together.
For people who aren't our immediate friends, family, and trusted subordinates getting information should be like pulling teeth.
In this situation every minute they spend hunting for the wrong signs is one we can out towards screwing with them, on top of getting out of our current encounter without issues.
Telling him complicates the situation and increases the likelihood that he'll try to test us. If he tries to get something from us on our identity we should just lie.
Give him a calling name and a burner email address or something. Supernaturals don't give their real names anyway, and incognito stuff isn't unusual. He's unlikely to start a fight right now over being evasive when he hasn't even introduced himself either.
Especially when he's told himself a story suggesting that he could very well lose and his niece is in the room with us.
Sitha is only here because he thought it was a milk run, so I don't think he was paying that much attention to anything outside the house.
He probably thinks we're in town to do something about the archfiend. A Jade summoner good enough to keep demons safely hidden in her soul sounds like the person you send to go after a high roller from the thousand hells if you've got one available.
What I've already said aside, I think this is the wrong approach. A Jade demonologist showing up in the wake of something that sounds like a high roller from the thousand hells strains credulity. It's possible, but it's the kind of coincidence that makes people take a second look.
I think it'd be better to imply we do know who he's talking about, but frame the information exchange as getting the latest gossip from a local. Same effect, but it doesn't unsettle the verisimilitude of our current mask as much.
I also strongly disagree with any true introduction here and now. It serves no real useful purpose; we can get everything we want and leave them looking in the wrong direction by simply keeping our mouths shut.
The ideal is to never share anything without some reasonable estimate of the risk, cause to believe the return is worth taking it, and no viable alternate routes to the same ends. That can't always happen, but working with that in mind significantly reduces the rate at which silly little slips get you screwed because they helped someone put the puzzle pieces together.
For people who aren't our immediate friends, family, and trusted subordinates getting information should be like pulling teeth.
In this situation every minute they spend hunting for the wrong signs is one we can out towards screwing with them, on top of getting out of our current encounter without issues.
Telling him complicates the situation and increases the likelihood that he'll try to test us. If he tries to get something from us on our identity we should just lie.
Give him a calling name and a burner email address or something. Supernaturals don't give their real names anyway, and incognito stuff isn't unusual. He's unlikely to start a fight right now over being evasive when he hasn't even introduced himself either.
Especially when he's told himself a story suggesting that he could very well lose and his niece is in the room with us.
And yet he was surprised when we showed up. He has the senses, but that doesn't mean that he uses them all the time or pays attention to everything around him equally when he does.
Sitha is only here because he thought it was a milk run, so I don't think he was paying that much attention to anything outside the house.
The issue is that the girl swore herself into our service, with an obvious magical effect taking hold of her as soon as she did so - we made her hunger recede. Assuming she's precious to the elder (reasonable), having her sworn to a Jade court demonologist is, to put it gently, not an optimal outcome. It puts her life, and soul, and sanity, in grave peril.
Having her enjoying the protection of someone connected and having approval of a knight of the cross? Much better. All else aside, the elder whamp would know that we won't sactifice his niece / daughter / whatever in a bloody ritual on a full moon, or have her possessed by a demon.
I find it unlikely. He has seen at least some of our power, and the girl is, effectively, a hostage right now. Hell, depending on what he thinks he saw when we controlled her hunger, he might believe that we can kill her with a thought. Or force her hunger to frenzy.
If he was going to make a point about that he would have done if before letting her swear. Right now he has the same uncertainty about his ability to win a fight and significant reason to believe that Sitha is screwed if starts one.
Telling him more risks disturbing a useful equilibrium.
It's also worth noting that a Skavis elder isn't the type to think positively of the swords. He isn't what they were made to fight, but each one is a hysterically effective anti-vamp weapon against one house of his court. They routinely do shit that would get them smacked if a knight is around and aware of it.
The big issue is that you're replacing a believable lie with an incredibly strange truth. We'd have to explain too much to get back to the same place, giving up significant advantage and opening the possibility that he simply picks something else reasonable but incorrect to explain the situation and acts on it.
He likely assumes this is the case right now, much like he assumes the cyber devils indicate a broad and deep ability to mess with demons that we don't actually have.
Drawing that into question is a potential risk.
More to the point, if he believes that already then why would be be willing to take a shot at Molly in the first place?
I think he'll dig, but he isn't going to press without more knowledge of what the risks are. He's an old vampire, he'd be dead long before now if he routinely took blind risks like that.
Which is borne out in what we've seen him do throughout the scene.
The counter fishing seems a bit too obvious to me, but something in that direction could work.
[] "Ah, that business. I suppose it wasn't exactly being subtle was it? The local nightlife would have to pick up eventually. " Molly says with a casual air.
-[] " Anyone interesting getting stirred up over it? " She says with a glance to the elder vampire.
We acknowledge that we know something and implicitly ask for roughly the same information back in return. Tip toeing around directly questioning each other.
Edit:
The other thing to consider in all of this is that we're all immortals here. As far as he's concerned now that his niece is awake spending a few decades minioning for a Jade is basically an internship as long as we aren't a crazy axe murderer.
Further, as careful as he's being about us we're also clearly being careful about him and he's pretty sure that our backup is further away than his.
The value of one random fledgling isn't that high to who he thinks we are, so the likelihood of us triggering that sort of shitstorm is lower than it might otherwise be.
White vamps are also very used to being weaker than other supernaturals and making up for it with their social game.
Taken together it wouldn't entirely surprise me if he thinks this situation can be worked out safely and ultimately to his family's advantage as long as they keep it to social combat.
It's not a guarantee, since I'm speculative a notable amount in a few places there, but I still think it's worth bringing up differences in perspective that could influence the context we're operating in.
As long as we seem stable and unlikely to do anything permanent to his family this guy can expect to have as much time as he needs to work things out in a field that favors him.
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Read it again.
It didnt say that battles cant be won, it said choose your battles. Basically, you only have so much effort to spare
Thats a very different message from "this is not something you can win".
I dont agree.
Angelic power, even Fallen Angel power, is a whole different level of threat. When Dresden looked at his first Denarian with the Sight, he didnt mistake it for a demon or fae or some other supernatural critter.
This guy has experience enough to peg our power as something out of Yomi Wan
He's not going to mistake us for a Denarian
Just like the malk in Undertown pegged us as something out of Yomi Wan
Whampire version would certainly look very different.
But there is evidence it, or something like it exists, from the Raith Deeps fight in White Night, where Lara and Thomas side by side meet the charge of Cowl's army of regenerating superghouls and stop them cold.
He had to shout. The nearest of the ghouls were about ten feet away, doing battle against, for lack of a more cliched term, a thin white line of Raith, including my brother with his two blades spinning.
"Go!" Marcone said, and the soldier went through. Marcone, a fresh shotgun in hand, stepped up next to me. "Dresden?"
"What are you hanging around for?"
"If you recall," he said, "I agreed to extract you alive. I'm not leaving until I have done so." He paused and added, "Provided, of course, that it happens in the next two minutes."
From where I was standing, I could see three two-brick bundles of C4, detonators thrust into their soft surfaces, each fitted with old-fashioned precision timepieces. They were simple charges on the floor. The other three must have been shaped charges affixed to the cavern walls. I had no idea how much destruction was going to be wrought by them, but I didn't suppose it would be much fun to be there when they went boom. Alas, that the poor ghouls would most likely be staying for the fireworks.
"Thomas!" I called. "Time to go!"
"Go!" Thomas shouted, and the other vampires with him broke from their line and fled for the gate, except for one, a tall female Raith who…
I blinked. Holy crap. It was Lara.
The other vampires fled past me, through the gate, and Thomas and his sister stood alone against the horde of eight-foot ghouls. Stood against it, and stopped it cold.
Their skin gleamed colder and whiter than glacial ice, their eyes blazed silvery bright, and they moved with blinding speed and utterly inhuman grace. His saber fluttered and slashed, drawing a constant stream of blood, punctuated by devastating blows of his kukri.
(Ah, right, that was the name of that inward-bent knife. I knew I'd remember it eventually.)
Lara moved with him, trailing her damp, midnight hair and shredded silk kimono. She covered Thomas's back like a cloak hung from his shoulders. She was no weaker than her younger brother, and perhaps even faster, and the wavy-bladed short sword in her hand had a penchant for leaving spills of ghoulish entrails in its wake. Together, the pair of them slipped aside from repeated rushes and dealt out deadly violence to one foe after another.
Ultimately, I think, their fight was futile—and all the more valiant and astonishing for being so doomed. No matter how lethal Thomas and Lara proved to be, or how many ghouls went screaming to the floor, their black blood continued to slither back into their fallen bodies, and the ghouls that had been taken down continued to gather themselves together to rise and fight again. Most of those who reentered the fight with renewed vigor and increased fury remained hideously maimed in some way. Some trailed their entrails like slimy grey ropes. Others were missing sections of their skulls. At least two entered the fray armless, simply biting with their wide jaws of vicious teeth. Beside the beauty of the brother and sister vampires, the ghouls' deformed bodies and hideous injuries were all the more monstrous, all the more vile.
"My God," Marcone said, his voice hushed. "It is the most beautiful nightmare I have ever seen."
He was right. It was hypnotic. "Time?" I asked him, my voice rough.
He consulted his own stopwatch. "One minute, forty-eight seconds."
"Thomas!" I bellowed. "Lara! Now!"
With that, the pair of them bounded apart, apparently the last thing the ghouls had been expecting, and dashed for the gate.
I turned to go—and that was when I felt it.
"Go!" Marcone said, and the soldier went through. Marcone, a fresh shotgun in hand, stepped up next to me. "Dresden?"
"What are you hanging around for?"
"If you recall," he said, "I agreed to extract you alive. I'm not leaving until I have done so." He paused and added, "Provided, of course, that it happens in the next two minutes."
From where I was standing, I could see three two-brick bundles of C4, detonators thrust into their soft surfaces, each fitted with old-fashioned precision timepieces. They were simple charges on the floor. The other three must have been shaped charges affixed to the cavern walls. I had no idea how much destruction was going to be wrought by them, but I didn't suppose it would be much fun to be there when they went boom. Alas, that the poor ghouls would most likely be staying for the fireworks.
"Thomas!" I called. "Time to go!"
"Go!" Thomas shouted, and the other vampires with him broke from their line and fled for the gate, except for one, a tall female Raith who…
I blinked. Holy crap. It was Lara.
The other vampires fled past me, through the gate, and Thomas and his sister stood alone against the horde of eight-foot ghouls. Stood against it, and stopped it cold.
Their skin gleamed colder and whiter than glacial ice, their eyes blazed silvery bright, and they moved with blinding speed and utterly inhuman grace. His saber fluttered and slashed, drawing a constant stream of blood, punctuated by devastating blows of his kukri.
(Ah, right, that was the name of that inward-bent knife. I knew I'd remember it eventually.)
Lara moved with him, trailing her damp, midnight hair and shredded silk kimono. She covered Thomas's back like a cloak hung from his shoulders. She was no weaker than her younger brother, and perhaps even faster, and the wavy-bladed short sword in her hand had a penchant for leaving spills of ghoulish entrails in its wake. Together, the pair of them slipped aside from repeated rushes and dealt out deadly violence to one foe after another.
Ultimately, I think, their fight was futile—and all the more valiant and astonishing for being so doomed. No matter how lethal Thomas and Lara proved to be, or how many ghouls went screaming to the floor, their black blood continued to slither back into their fallen bodies, and the ghouls that had been taken down continued to gather themselves together to rise and fight again. Most of those who reentered the fight with renewed vigor and increased fury remained hideously maimed in some way. Some trailed their entrails like slimy grey ropes. Others were missing sections of their skulls. At least two entered the fray armless, simply biting with their wide jaws of vicious teeth. Beside the beauty of the brother and sister vampires, the ghouls' deformed bodies and hideous injuries were all the more monstrous, all the more vile.
"My God," Marcone said, his voice hushed. "It is the most beautiful nightmare I have ever seen."
He was right. It was hypnotic. "Time?" I asked him, my voice rough.
He consulted his own stopwatch. "One minute, forty-eight seconds."
"Thomas!" I bellowed. "Lara! Now!"
With that, the pair of them bounded apart, apparently the last thing the ghouls had been expecting, and dashed for the gate.
I turned to go—and that was when I felt it.
And there's the initial offscreen fight with the Denarians at Marcone's secondary safehouse in Small Favor, where Thomas kills a Denarian offscreen.
In melee. With a kukri.
Anyway.
Horrid Form is Vicissitude 4, and gives +3 to all Physical Attributes.
That would make your Gen 6 vamp Str 7, Dex 9, Stamina 8.
In the scenario you have written, that would translate to
-Ranged dice pool of (Dex 9 + Firearms 5 + Celerity 3 =) 17 dice.
-Soak pool would be (Fortitude 7 + Stamina 8 =) 15. Agg soak would be 7, assuming no armor or magic.
-Strength pool would be (Str 7 + Potence 4 =) 11.
And Im assuming thats a bogstandard heavy pistol there,and that it has no armor under the suit.
Because there's a good chance it is at least as paranoid as Molly is.
And given that they have higher Dexterity AND a ranged weapon, they can simply decline to let us enter melee range.
Current!Molly has a Move range of (20 × <Dex4*3> =) 32 yards/ turn.
A Dex 9 Elder, however, has Move of (20×<9*3>=) 47 yards/turn.
An elder with 3x 17-dice ranged attacks a turn? That you cant reach?
Thats well into "Gonna need shintai" tier, just to not die.
And Shintai!Molly only has a Move speed of (20×<Dex8*3> =)44 yards/turn, which would not be enough to reach him anyway.
Its probably when Molly went shintai.
Remember when Dresden described it as a supernova focused down to a point? I would not be surprised if detectors went off in White Council HQ in Edinburgh when Molly popped off. I am certainly not surprised that other sensitives in Chicago felt it going off.
Other alternatives are
-Molly's calling on the Principle of Consumption
-Lydia's awakening, or her father
-EvilBob and Corpsetaker
While its probably Molly?
We actually want to know if there's a greater demon lurking around.
Thats how you avoid getting jumped by something out of Yomi Wan. Or a Denarian.
Do remember that we still dont know what killed Greene.
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I agree on the general point of not mistaking Molly for a Denarian, but I think the scale elements would still be in play. It's just that the exaltation is mostly dormant, so you need really good senses to see the deeper truth beyond the edges of the power.
Which is why Bob can immediately pick out HMP as an act of divine authority, but Gard couldn't pick that that level of detail on TTC.
It's also worth noting that this guy managed external and physical obvious effects with his power, which heavily implies he's some sort of sorcerer.
Sure the default vampire rules allow it, but that's not something regular white court vamps can really do.
Just being able to take those sort of abilities marks him as something more than a regular elder.
[X] Ignore the elder Whampire's prodding and continue extracting the information from Sarah's computer.
[X] Try to draw out more clues without admitting ignorance (DC 8 Charisma+Subterfuge roll)
-[X] Stunt: "Ah, that business. I suppose it wasn't exactly being subtle was it? The local nightlife would have to pick up eventually. " Molly says with a casual air.
--[X] " Anyone interesting getting stirred up over it? " She says with a glance to the elder vampire.
[X] Try to draw out more clues without admitting ignorance (DC 8 Charisma+Subterfuge roll)
-[X] Stunt: "Ah, that business. I suppose it wasn't exactly being subtle was it? The local nightlife would have to pick up eventually. " Molly says with a casual air.
--[X] " Anyone interesting getting stirred up over it? " She says with a glance to the elder vampire.
- Location
- Germany
There is no such thing as a "regular Elder".
If you survive long enough to be called Elder you have some unusual tricks by default.
You have been in dozens of situations that could have killed you if you weren't both good and lucky.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Which also generally means that elders usually aren't the sort inclined towards risk taking. So long as we look scary most elders aren't going to attack us.
No, it's exactly that message. The lesson is "you have limited resources, be they material, connections, time, and there are battles for which you don't have enough resources to win. Choose your battles, for some can't be won with what you have". That's spelled out in the text. It's not a bad lesson to be taught to a mortal that doesn't have a supernatural primordial-slaying self-evolving reality breaking weapon strapped to their soul.
EDIT: To be more precise, the message was "some fights are not worth fighting".
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I still don't understand why so many people want to admit to ignorance and specifically set ourselves up to reveal Molly's name.
The whole idea rests on a tower of assumptions that don't even require us to do it yet. A good way to test if it's necessary is to simply evade and see if he forces the issue.
He probably won't, since he thinks it's an even fight at best and we have his niece's leash, but if he does we benefit from extending this to the end.
The whole idea rests on a tower of assumptions that don't even require us to do it yet. A good way to test if it's necessary is to simply evade and see if he forces the issue.
He probably won't, since he thinks it's an even fight at best and we have his niece's leash, but if he does we benefit from extending this to the end.
Yeah, but there are different grades of elder. This guy is doing stuff that requires fine manipulation that we rarely see powerful white court vamps become capable of.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Fair enough.
[X] Ignore the elder Whampire's prodding and continue extracting the information from Sarah's computer.
[X] Ignore the elder Whampire's prodding and continue extracting the information from Sarah's computer.
Personally, because I think it's time to slowly start to untangle the web of lies we find ourselves caught in, to minimize the fallout.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Seems more like a web of assumptions to me?
- Location
- Germany
Worst case isthat there really is a Wan Kuei Bhodisattva in town, which explains why he isn't surprised to see one.
If that were the case we would really like to know.
More likely though that the rumors are just missinterpretations of Molly's own appearance and actions.
If that were the case we would really like to know.
More likely though that the rumors are just missinterpretations of Molly's own appearance and actions.
This isn't the time or the place for it; these guys aren't our friends and we're currently in a tense situation.
It's not like we're going to upset them because we violated their trust or something, we're upsetting them by doing stuff that we're not going to stop doing. It's like revealing your hand in poker because the other guy would be upset if he knew how good your bluff was.