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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Killing the vampires now would be a mistake, IMO. It would have been one thing to do it immediately upon entry, but now we know why they're actually here. Not that it justifies the planned murder, but it does introduce complications and opportunity. There is also Molly's IC thoughts and motivations; she has allowed worse examples of supernatural predation to continue to exist for more flimsy reasons, so why escalate to such an extent in this instance?
 
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Artemis1992 said:
The fire and sword approach is very inefficient against large-scale crime

Going full superhero, saving a few people and killing a few vamps is more likely to get us attacked by the mortal authorities than to change anything substantial.

And charging in to kill Lara or some stunt like that would propably get us killed.

There's a giant mechanism for punishing crimes in America, we are much better of using it than ignoring iT.
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It's much more efficient with the crown.

I'd think going to our dad or Dresden with the info might be wiser. They are both handy and have a better handle on what an appropriate response would be. And neither of them are going to be in the same universe as okay with any of this -w-
 
Goldfish said:
Killing the vampires now would be a mistake, IMO. It would have been one thing to do it immediately upon entry, but now we know why they're actually here. Not that it justifies the planned murder, but it does introduce complications and opportunity. There is also Molly's IC thoughts and motivations; she has allowed worse examples of supernatural predation continue to exist for more flimsy reasons, so why escalate to such an extent in this instance?
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Goldfish said:
Killing the vampires now would be a mistake, IMO. It would have been one thing to do it immediately upon entry, but now we know why they're actually here. Not that it justifies the planned murder, but it does introduce complications and opportunity. There is also Molly's IC thoughts and motivations; she has allowed worse examples of supernatural predation continue to exist for more flimsy reasons, so why escalate to such an extent in this instance?
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Has she?
I don't remember her letting people kill someone in front of her.

At worst she let the Reds in Cleveland go, who I admit will continue killing, but at that point she didn't have evidence that might allow her to hurt the Red Court in general.

And just letting the old vampire go would mean we have him breathing down our neck until he gets the chance to either kill us or destroy the evidence or both.
Making the suckers leave now with an unfinished task definitly makes him our enemy and a dangerous one at that.
 
zxzx24 said:
It's much more efficient with the crown.

I'd think going to our dad or Dresden with the info might be wiser. They are both handy and have a better handle on what an appropriate response would be. And neither of them are going to be in the same universe as okay with any of this -w-
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Dresden has more than enough to do with the list of ancient Necromancers we gave him.

And dad is just a very good dude with a sword when he's not on a mission. Not the best pick for going after big crime.
 
Artemis1992 said:
We can't stab the entire White Court ourselves.

Using Green's evidence to let the FBI and Daedalus do the stabbing is our best way to hurt the White Court.

And if they are smart enough to get the mundane parts of FBI and other law-enforcement involved they can really damage those involved with mundane crimes, like human trafficking.
You don't need superpowers to freeze mafia-accounts.
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The thing is I don't have any faith in Daedalus at all, I don't think they were actually set up to be real law enforcement and I don't think they can actually solve problems. I don't think they'll be able to stop the white court from doing whatever it wants, and I'm not sure if they're even free enough to try given our lack of understanding of their backers.

You might not need supernatural powers to freeze mob accounts, but if the mafia has had hundred of years to use its mind control powers to imbed themselves absolutely everywhere and can effectively bring down more physical force than you can (or at least can without calling in the National Guard) then you'll struggle.

Or rather a competent group would struggle, compromised idiots like Daedalus would just ineffectually flail around.
 
Artemis1992 said:
[X] Kill the old Vampire
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Acolyte said:
[X] Kill the old Vampire
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Kill both or kill none, just killing the old one is not really viable, the young one will not works for us if we do, better to stop the inevitable betrayal in the cradle by killing her too in that case.

Yog said:
The girl seems relatively innocent, if a victim of familial indoctrination. I don't think (from the first looks) that she was abused, but she was taught, likely from her childhood, that her nature is something she has no choice in, and should live with.
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Not all abuse is physical or easily seen, grooming the girl so that she thinks as people as lesser and killing them is a mercy can be seen as a form of abuse.

At the very least, that's one fucked up way of growing up.

Yog said:
The elder vampire is certainly an Elder.
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Explains him apparently not being affected by our *grovel now, worm* charm.

Yog said:
Because there are degrees here, and stuff like "child snuff porno" is certainly on the table with these kind of beings.
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I think the most likely result is *obedient slaves groomed that way from a young age*, but it's not like it's any better, and the problematic ones can very well ends up in your proposition.

BronzeTongue said:
And really, killing the older vampire doesn't actually do anything about the human trafficking ring. We still have to do that all ourselves, because Daedalus can't find its own ass with a map and two task forces.
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Woah there, let's not be too optimistic about their abilities, you presume them findings their ass is even a physically possible action in the first place there.
 
BronzeTongue said:
The thing is I don't have any faith in Daedalus at all, I don't think they were actually set up to be real law enforcement and I don't think they can actually solve problems. I don't think they'll be able to stop the white court from doing whatever it wants, and I'm not sure if they're even free enough to try given our lack of understanding of their backers.

You might not need supernatural powers to freeze mob accounts, but if the mafia has had hundred of years to use its mind control powers to imbed themselves absolutely everywhere and can effectively bring down more physical force than you can (or at least can without calling in the National Guard) then you'll struggle.

Or rather a competent group would struggle, compromised idiots like Daedalus would just ineffectually flail around.
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True I guess.
But if the library were willing to act they would have done so centuries ago, the cowards.

I guess through Green we could inform the regular FBI of the regular crimes and at least hurt the White Court a bit.

Edit: Regardless how we use oit, we need the evidence in the first place. Maybe Green has ideas. Revenge can be a good motivator.
 
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Nyarky said:
Kill both or kill none, just killing the old one is not really viable, the young one will not works for us if we do, better to stop the inevitable betrayal in the cradle by killing her too in that case.
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The old one is the priority, the young one can neither hurt us nor run away with any chance of success.
We'll propably kill her, but not in this vote.
 
Artemis1992 said:
The old one is the priority, the young one can neither hurt us nor run away with any chance of success.
We'll propably kill her, but not in this vote.
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Thinking she's completely harmless and dismissing her as a result is just asking for being shanked in the back while we are fighting her relative, yes we cannot be taken by surprise while our anima is up, but we don't have any charms for multiple actions and would have to sacrifice part of our offense to defend ourself, if she's almost definitely going to join the fight, might as well include her as a target right from the beginning.
 
Nyarky said:
Thinking she's completely harmless and dismissing her as a result is just asking for being shanked in the back while we are fighting her relative, yes we cannot be taken by surprise while our anima is up, but we don't have any charms for multiple actions and would have to sacrifice part of our offense to defend ourself, if she's almost definitely going to join the fight, might as well include her as a target right from the beginning.
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With VLE active we can passivly soak any attacks a human-strenght person with a knife, handgun or household-items can make.
If we activate Steelskin next turn her odds of doing damage come even closer to zero.

We don't have to sacrifice actions on her while a real danger is in the room.
 
I think realistically the best outcome is that we shut down the operation ourselves, then keep it shut down (for example by setting up Thomas as the new White King, or simply by the the threat of "don't make me come over there"), Daedalus is too incompetent, impotent, and likely infiltrated by malign forces to handle this. Handling at least parts of the case to Murphy, and handling the supernatural justice ourselves would work, I believe, and wouldn't cause too many political issues for now. Then we buy ETE, and keep any such projects shut down.

If nothing else, let's check what kind of conspiracy it is. Because we don't have anywhere near enough information. While the information presented points to it being a trafficking ring, there are alternative explanations. For example: she could have been covering the signs of whampire initiations. Remember, whampire's first feeding is lethal. That's a stady stream of murders that needs to be covered. And at least Raith first feedings would often fall under "crimes agains children" because they would be "teen Raiths fucking other teens".

So, before anything else, we need to read the data.
 
@DragonParadox, can we give a Creature of Darkness a task we want them to accomplish and have Mercy In Servitude remain active without our continued input or supervision so long as they continue to carry out that task?

For example, if we told Sitha she would remain free of her Hunger so long as she dedicates 40 hours each week to working for a charity of some sort, such as one setup to help the victims of Human trafficking?
 
Goldfish said:
@DragonParadox, can we give a Creature of Darkness a task we want them to accomplish and have Mercy In Servitude remain active without our continued input or supervision so long as they continue to carry out that task?

For example, if we told Sitha she would remain free of her Hunger so long as she dedicates 40 hours each week to working for a charity of some sort, such as one setup to help the victims of Human trafficking?
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You would have to own the charity or otherwise have control of it, it is hierarchical thing, they have to be working as your servants, not just at your suggestion.
 
What is the elder's involvement in this? He seems extremely powerful; what's his stake in helping House Raith?
He also seems more than reasonable about things, or the extent that he's actually 'accidentally' giving us information and names, like that idiot Madrigal Raith.
Jumping straight to a very difficult fight against a very powerful opponent for unclear reasons doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
 
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Danel4d said:
What is the elder's involvement in this? He seems extremely powerful; what's his stake in helping House Raith?
He also seems more than reasonable about things, or the extent that he's actually 'accidentally' giving us information and names, like that idiot Madrigal Raith.
Jumping straight to a very difficult fight against a very powerful opponent for unclear reasons doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
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The fact that he's an old and powerful vampire would be enough reason for me, even if it weren't for any other reasons.

You never become an old vampire without doing a lot of stuff you propably deserve to die for.

Lot of time to gather skeletons in the basement. Lot's of people drivem to despair for feeding alone, nevermind other victims like this one here.
Lot's of fresh vamps like Sitha here corrupted into thinking that their lifestyle is the only possible one.
 
DragonParadox said:
Thomas really really does not want to be the new White King.
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Fair enough.

How about this? We use the crown on Sarah Greene's phone / computer ( @DragonParadox can we see her computer / phone from where we are?) to get the instant download on all the information she has. This lets us judge what to do with the information and the situation in general. We still have Sarah herself as a focus, or some of her other devices, so the question doesn't cost us much. We need information to make an informed decision.
 
[X] Offer to wipe off the evidence of Raith crimes off all of Agent Green's devices
-[x]... and keep a copy (Roll opposed Charisma+Subterfuge vs the Elder's Auspex ???)
 
DragonParadox said:
It is not in the living room so you can't see it right now.
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Ok, are there:
1) Photos of Sarah Greene
2) Mirrors in which Sarah Greene is reflected
3) Awards or diplomas belonging to Sarah Greene
4) Shoes that can be reasonably expected to be Sarah Greene's
we can see?

I am fishing for a Crown Focus to ask "what information has *modified depending on the focus* uncovered about White Court related crimes?" without using Sarah herself.
 
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