Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

0eople relying on trade secrets rather than patents is very much not unknown. It's not that suspicious not to patent something that isn't directly sold.
So how do you want to deal with the private investigators that will be hired to look into us? Because the thing about trade secrets is they aren't protected by law meaning it's finders keepers and well worth hiring a PI on just the chance of snooping it out.
 
As there is bribery involved, the US has AFAIK the ability to intervene. More so if US$ was used.

And what safety violations? We can show them how we do it. We just tell the Library of Congress ahead of time that someone asks us to blow the secrecy wide open and if they want to keep on good terms with the powerful Exalted.
The Library of Congress doesn't know what an Exalted is. Plus, once we have RVD, we could actually transport the diamonds from Africa to USA legitimately.
 
I suggest we ask Thomas own the mine on paper. The whole point in a money man is he holds our money. A teenager with a diamond mine is strange. A modestly wealthy entrepenure who just visted the area owning a diamond mine is less noteable, and if he IS noticed he is doing his job by drawing that notice away from US.

[X] A small mining operation, try to make diamonds that could pass for natural
-[X] Have Thomas gather the list of properties for sale, then use the Crown on the list to arrange them starting from the one that has the most unclaimed and undiscovered supernatural power within its borders, including buried underneath it. Use the sales announcements of the properties to check what kind of magical power each one has.
-[X] Have Thomas put it in his name.
-[X] LLC named Green Sun Investments


Thomas can even launder things further by taking trips to Africa and returning with diamonds from time to time.

The medium term goal is to essentially make Thomas extremely wealthy with him holding our bag of money and investing it, and to buy things for us whenever we want.
 
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You know, I've been wondering.

Why can't we patent a way to make artificial diamond? @DragonParadox, can we find a way to translate Exalted bullshit into scientific sounding bullshit?
 
I suggest we ask Thomas own the mine on paper. The whole point in a money man is he holds our money. A teenager with a diamond mine is strange. A modestly wealthy entrepenure who just visted the area owning a diamond mine is less noteable, and if he IS noticed he is doing hos job by drawing that notice away from US.
Oh, that's a good idea. I'm stealing it.
 
[X] A small mining operation, try to make diamonds that could pass for natural

Seems like it would draw less attention in the long run. A new innovative diamond creation process is the sort of thing that is newsworthy.

No need to go overboard with the crown either. Thomas can take care of it and call us if he needs anything.
 
I suggest we ask Thomas own the mine on paper. The whole point in a money man is he holds our money. A teenager with a diamond mine is strange. A modestly wealthy entrepenure who just visted the area owning a diamond mine is less noteable, and if he IS noticed he is doing hos job by drawing that notice away from US.
Well it's more likely to be a LLC meaning no one 'owns' it per say. And it makes sense to have Thomas be the CEO because he is in fact handling the finances.

Or I don't actually know much about cooperate law, but I am fairly sure that who owns it is likely to be a fuzzy question with no answer.
 
Oh, that's a good idea. I'm stealing it.
We need to remeber to produce uncut stones for him to pass through customs with, but if anything that should increase the number of stones we produce per check as it's cutting a whole step off the end of the process.

Well it's more likely to be a LLC meaning no one 'owns' it per say. And it makes sense to have Thomas be the CEO because he is in fact handling the finances.

Or I don't actually know much about cooperate law, but I am fairly sure that who owns it is likely to be a fuzzy question with no answer.

Someone still owns a LLC. It's a "Limited Liability Corperation" and it limits the liability of a specific owner by siloing some of their stuff into a seperate entity that can sign contracts and such so the owner can't be sued for everything, only what is siloed in the LLC.

And we should name the LLC "Green Sun Investments" because we NEED a ironic name.
 
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No need to go overboard with the crown either. Thomas can take care of it and call us if he needs anything.
The idea with the Crown use is to find undiscovered magical potential in the list of properties for sale. Like a vein of magical material, or a long lost ancient buried temple, or dragon king eggs, or a Dragon's Nest. Something that Thomas would have no idea is there. That the people selling it would have no idea is there.

The "both" version with Thomas holding the mine property is actually perfect, I think. It explains how Molly got money for her "innovative process" - Thomas, who knew her through Harry, lent it to her. When she demonstrated that it worked, he established a factory near his small mine. It works.
We need to remeber to produce uncut stones for him to pass through customs with, but if anything that should increase the number of stones we produce per check as it's cutting a whole step off the end of the process.
Indeed. That's actually a perfect cover. The "official" timeline goes like this:
1) Thomas meets Molly through Harry. Molly, in her spare time, is trying to make diamonds in her family garage. Thomas floats her some money because he's rich and she's a nice kid.
2) Thomas goes on vacation to Africa. Something reminds him of Molly, and he buys a small mine, because he can. And wow, it works. He now becomes richer.
3) Some time after that, Molly comes to Thomas, and demonstrates that she actually worked out something innovative. Thomas capitalizes on it, and opens up a factory near his mine.
 
Someone still owns a LLC. It's a "Limited Liability Corperation" and it limits the liability of a specific owner by siloing some of their stuff into a seperate entity that can sign contracts and such so the owner can't be sued for everything, only what is siloed in the LLC.

And we should name the LLC "Green Sun Investments" because we NEED a ironic name.
If we don't want to draw attention naming it as series of random numbers and letters is the way to go. And we don't actually want this to draw attention. Let's leave that name for a future enterprise that needs branding.
 
If we are still talking about a custom "gimp suit" CCC device, than obviously it would have such capability. We are the ones making it.

Also, yes, there's the question of capability. So far canon Dresden villains have demonstrated zero ability to subvert electronics. I have no doubt that some can do so, but it'll take effort. And if we are doing it in a fight, a turn spent subverting our CCC abuser is a turn not spent fighting us.

Then there's wording of the charm:

That's a flat effect. No counter-rolls possible. It's an exaltation-backed perfect effect with limited duration. I mean, reasonably, probably the devil can be banished. But that, again, takes effort.
-This is a Dresdenverse/WoD crossover. Our cyberdevils are from WoD hells.

-Fair enough. Thats conceded.
That can be done by raw Forces though.
He doesn't have to manipulate any technology if he telekinetically alters the flight-path so the satellite hits the ground.
In fact it is entirely possible all the insides of the thing got toasted due to the excessive amount of magic working on it, for this case that wouldn't matter.
Could be. Was it? Thats not the impression I got.

Both for economy of force reasons(a lot of wizards dont exert themselves more than necessary), and because of the sheer precision of the strike through the atmosphere. The targeting was precise; it hit the mansion, not the neighboring village, which points at active guidance all the way through atmospheric turbulence.

Thats like sub-30m CEP, which is better than you get from a modern ICBM with active targeting.
I really doubt that they get the budget to make intercontinental trips one whim. Also even if the do and find a hole in the ground where they don't find any diamonds it doesn't actually prove anything.
They DO have the budget to make intercontinental trips on a whim.
Not that they have to; they'd just hitch a ride on a routine US military or State Department flight.
And every nation has a US embassy.

If they wanted to, they could check quite easily.
 
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We should also ask the forst diamonds he brings "back" how they could reveal our fraud, so we have a better idea of the specific risks and can advise Thomas ways to minimize them.
 
It comes down to attention management in my mind.

A new process is significantly more interesting than what appears to be a slightly more unusual variation of an existing scam. Investigation is complicated, but not wholly blocked, by needing to investigate our operations state side and overseas to really eliminate all the most likely possibilities. Still plenty of ways to do it, or just get lucky starting with what's locally available, but it's still an increase to the barrier to entry.

By contrast a tech startup is a lot more immediately interesting and brings all of the focus right on top of our workshop. Which the first round of even basic industrial investigation will turn up as completely nonsensical.

Not to mention all the additional paper trail and complications from zoning regulations. Where are we going to find a place where it's legal to do what we're pretending to do that isn't an expensive rental property for larger operations?

You can't just set up something alleging to deal with a potentially hazardous process in a strip mall. Especially if any waste is expected.

The city/state government isn't going to take "trust me bro" if we claim our process doesn't involve high pressure high temperature equipment and that they don't need to worry about the integrity of a new wonder gizmo made by a high schooler in their garage.

Even if we do placate them it leaves an opening for a hostile group looking to poke us. Bribing someone to do their job has got to be the easiest ask ever made to an industrial espionage operation.

Honestly I'm surprised Thomas is suggesting this, because it seems like the sort of thing that rapidly ends up in a feel good piece of local business news, followed by the white court sending some feelers out.

Manipulating a bright young inventor who cracked some valuable technology is the sort of thing they eat up.

Though on that note, why are we doing it in our name? Thomas can't betray us without losing access to MiS, and isn't the type anyway.

He's a white court vamp of some stature, which gets him more attention but also makes people more willing to accept certain behaviors from him. He's also the one leaving the country and doing the local work.

If Thomas Raith goes on vacation to Lesotho and comes back with a small diamond mine they'll think he either was there on business or got lucky and mind-whammied someone with a bit of valuable property.

If they investigate and find a hill populated by sheep, then he's just a white court vamp grifting for some extra cash.

Somewhat OOC for him, but not many people know him personally. They do know he's been off the family money for a bit though, so seeing it as him getting fed up with living on pleb money and scrounging up some better income would fit most people's preconceptions.

[X] A small mining operation, try to make diamonds that could pass for natural
-[X] Ask Thomas if he'd be willing to be the public owner of the company to reduce the odds of investigation from interest parties


Edit:

Adding Thomas to my actual vote.
 
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Few people will want to buy a modestly profitable diamond mine. They are not commom, but not particuarly rare ether. EVERYONE in the diamond market is going to want to own the new way to make synthetic diamonds.
 
The idea with the Crown use is to find undiscovered magical potential in the list of properties for sale. Like a vein of magical material, or a long lost ancient buried temple, or dragon king eggs, or a Dragon's Nest. Something that Thomas would have no idea is there. That the people selling it would have no idea is there.

The "both" version with Thomas holding the mine property is actually perfect, I think. It explains how Molly got money for her "innovative process" - Thomas, who knew her through Harry, lent it to her. When she demonstrated that it worked, he established a factory near his small mine. It works.

Indeed. That's actually a perfect cover. The "official" timeline goes like this:
1) Thomas meets Molly through Harry. Molly, in her spare time, is trying to make diamonds in her family garage. Thomas floats her some money because he's rich and she's a nice kid.
2) Thomas goes on vacation to Africa. Something reminds him of Molly, and he buys a small mine, because he can. And wow, it works. He now becomes richer.
3) Some time after that, Molly comes to Thomas, and demonstrates that she actually worked out something innovative. Thomas capitalizes on it, and opens up a factory near his mine.
*Shakes head*
Both is the worst of both worlds. Trying to come up with a whole wonderful story for things is being too clever by half.

Better to just leave as little evidence as possible. If someone does an in depth investigation they may suspect that something shady is going on. But there are plenty of shady things happening in the world every day. A little shade blends in far better then some glittering story.

Trying to buy a magical property seems dangerous to me too. Wouldn't we want one that has as little magic as possible to make it unremarkable?
 
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Few people will want to buy a modestly profitable diamond mine. They are not commom, but not particuarly rare ether. EVERYONE in the diamond market is going to want to own the new way to make synthetic diamonds.
Which is why we hide it in Africa. They could try to send someone there, but it wouldn't be hard to make a protected facility.

You can't just set up something alleging to deal with a potentially hazardous process in a strip mall. Especially if any waste is expected.

The city/state government isn't going to take "trust me bro" if we claim our process doesn't involve high pressure high temperature equipment and that they don't need to worry about the integrity of a new wonder gizmo made by a high schooler in their garage.
This, basically. And playing chicken with the Masquerade is a good way for Mab to come in and smack us. The facility in the USA is infeasible.

And as to checking which property we can buy that's most magical - that's just good sense, in my mind.

EDIT:
*Shakes head*
Both is the worst of both worlds. Trying to come up with a whole wonderful story for things is being too clever by half.

Better to just leave as little evidence as possible. If someone does an in depth investigation they may suspect that something shady is going on. But there are plenty of shady things happening in the world every day. A little shade blends in far better then some glittering story.
I'm not advocating for, like, giving interviews or something. But this gives us an ability to sell both qualities of diamonds.
 
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Honestly I'm surprised Thomas is suggesting this, because it seems like the sort of thing that rapidly ends up in a feel good piece of local business news, followed by the white court sending some feelers out.
I suspect that he is playing the Sir Humpty Applebee game and making sure to give us choices. The right choice that benefits him and the wrong choice which is a terrible idea. Unfortunately going by the current vote he underestimated our intelligence.
 
Note that if we say we have a diamond mine, we have a massive amount of work to do to meet the Kimberley Process Certification Scheme standards before we can sell them.

There are site inspections and interviews with the work force and supply chain motioning and all sorts of things.

It's several orders of magnitude more difficult than artificial diamonds.

It does, however, make sense to establish the 'artificial diamond facility' in a developing nation. Somewhere like Vietnam would be ideal as it has food trade relations with the US and relatively weak internal controls on industry at this point.
 
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Could be. Was it? Thats not the impression I got.

Both for economy of force reasons(a lot of wizards dont exert themselves more than necessary), and because of the sheer precision of the strike through the atmosphere. The targeting was precise; it hit the mansion, not the neighboring village, which points at active guidance all the way through atmospheric turbulence.

Thats like sub-30m CEP, which is better than you get from a modern ICBM with active targeting.
In my eyes the precision makes direct telekinetic guidance more likely, not less.

Satellites are not actually designed to do much flying once the are up in orbit.
Most don't even have any ability to move themselves at all, they are just brought into orbit and left there.

A satellite would have to be very specifically and unusually designed as a orbital bomb to pull off an even vaguely precise impact.

Meanwhile a ritual using Forces and maybe Corrospondence would be a big, even epic feat, but well within the range of what the Blackstaff, the White Council's foremost expert in blowing shit up, can do with some planning and prepwork.
 
Note that if we say we have a diamond mine, we have a massive amount of work to do to meet the Kimberley Process Certification Scheme standards before we can sell them.

There are site inspections and interviews with the work force and supply chain motioning and all sorts of things.

It's several orders of magnitude more difficult than artificial diamonds.
Good thing we have a capable minion to handle all that and he seems to think it's easier.
 
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They DO have the budget to make intercontinental trips on a whim.
Not that they have to; they'd just hitch a ride on a routine US military or State Department flight.
And every nation has a US embassy.

If they wanted to, they could check quite easily.
Daedalus still couldn't. They entirely lack jurisdiction as part of FBI. Moreover, if they try to investigate our property in a foreign country... We'll just deny them entry, and that'd be it.
Could be. Was it? Thats not the impression I got.

Both for economy of force reasons(a lot of wizards dont exert themselves more than necessary), and because of the sheer precision of the strike through the atmosphere. The targeting was precise; it hit the mansion, not the neighboring village, which points at active guidance all the way through atmospheric turbulence.

That's like sub-30m CEP, which is better than you get from a modern ICBM with active targeting.
You can't do this with a satellite not already designed as a kinetic kill vessel.

Also, ok, I see that both won't win. So, before going to sleep, I'll vote politically.

[X] A small mining operation, try to make diamonds that could pass for natural
-[X] Have Thomas gather the list of properties for sale, then use the Crown on the list to arrange them starting from the one that has the most unclaimed and undiscovered supernatural power within its borders, including buried underneath it. Use the sales announcements of the properties to check what kind of magical power each one has.
-[X] Ask Thomas if he'd be willing to be the public owner of the company to reduce the odds of investigation from interest parties
 
Good thing we have a capable minion to handle all that.

And then in several years we can sell our first diamond. A capable minion isn't enough. We'd need the seed capital to create a fake mine, hire a fake workforce, create a fake supply chain, and have the diamonds from our fake mine repeatedly isotope tested for traceability.

Because of blood diamonds there's a lot of enforcement and bureaucracy involved n the rough diamond trade.
 
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