Remove ads

Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Reader mode
I LIVE AGAIN.
bengalqueen said:
Shintai stat boosts don't affect the Excellency value. Also, stunt dice.
Not sure about actively calling out and advertising the "Demon Emperor" part. I feel like just Shintai would be good.
Going to bed, will vote in the morning.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Citation?
I went back to check, and it doesnt say that in the Infernal chapter. Or indeed in the Lunar chapter with their Rage form.
Additionally, the Shih MA section seems to say that the boosted Attributes from Shih MA techniques are what Excellencies key off.

Good point about the stunt dice though. Will edit that.
DragonParadox said:
In the room:
  1. Guy who thinks he is wolverine, but looks rather wounded for the part
  2. Hideous monster from beyond time and space
In the corridor:
  • Three more people charging in
  • Person in a labcoat who has not quite been bludgeonsed into unconsciousness
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Okay.
So Lydia just uses another Chariot to slam the door shut and barricade it in Turn 1 while Michael stabs Wolverine into submission.
Then Turn 2 they can turn to help.

If they're successful, that is. If they arent, Molly takes it alone.
Yog said:
Drop the "demon emperor" please. There's zero reason for Molly to call it such. And we don't want Molly to think she is a demon, to internalize that.

Also, why not use the crown of eyes on the raksha? Unless you want to use it later to search for any other raksha trapped in the world, we need the information on where to strike. We don't know what to cut. And we need extra essence.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
1)Its a Raksha.
Our first Rage Recast aspect is Transcendent Anathema, which converts our lethal damage to Agg.
We dont need to study it to stab it and keep stabbing it until it retreats into its hole or dies.

2)Gossamer already pinged our +2 Essence for the scene.
If it didnt, just seeing the raksha's form would also ping our Essence regen.
No need for more shit.

3)Shintai activation requires a turn of concentration on attempting to transform.
Thats why the only thing she's doing is Full Defense.
I think spending Essence on Crown voids that.

Also I'd rather keep that question for if we need to figure out a post-battle ritual for stuffing a beaten Raksha or its corpse back into its prison cell after the battle.

4) Thats the name of the technique.
She's already internalized it, just like she's aware that the Usum was a demon and her cyberdevils are escapees from Yomi Wan.

Goldfish said:
Agreed. Even a joking "Sailor Nuclear Hell Princess" would be more appropriate here than actually calling ourselves a Demon Emperor in this situation.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Fine. Im not bound to it, so if it bugs a lot of people I can edit.

Its still worth remembering that its the name of the technique that Molly knows.
And we're still going to talk to Michael about it, because this is the first time he's seeing our shintai. And we will tell him its name.
And that distinguishes it from our second stage shintai.
Gnarker said:
Speaking of, have we put any thought into Molly's Second and Third Circle Demons yet? The ability to call up those would be very useful too. (And would also hopefully help fix my biggest issue with the - otherwise great! - current writeup of our tiger empire, namely that it feels rather disconnected to Molly and who she is as a person, to me at least. Though I should note that my main exposure to Tiger Empires in practice is Kerisgame, which handles them very differently.)

One approach might be to riff on the mirror cabinet scene in the books, with each 3CD being a different reflection of Molly how she could have been, if things had been different. Molly the Wizard, Molly of Winter, Molly the Rebel, Devout Good Girl Molly, Molly the Ragged Lady, and so on. Could be interesting to see how each of those shapes their slice of the Tiger Empire.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not how Infernal Hells in ExWoD are supposed to work AFAIK.
While Holden may have been inspired by the Tiger Empire model used in Kerisgame, its not a one to one conversion
You dont get 2CDs and 3CDs . The inhabitants are all independent people, not shards of your personality. And so on.
 
uju32 said:
4) Thats the name of the technique.
She's already internalized it, just like she's aware that the Usum was a demon and her cyberdevils are escapees from Yomi Wan.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No she didn't. She called it shintai. There's no textual evidence that Molly gets the knowledge of how the charms are called. At all.

Calling it shintai the previous time it was used was argued for using completely different logic.

EDIT:
uju32 said:
Its still worth remembering that its the name of the technique that Molly knows.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Please provide evidence of this.
 
Last edited:
uju32 said:
1)Sure. But this is not WoD. The Fifth Age is not ending.
There is no current evidence there is a Black Vault here. No suggestion of Abyssals, thank God. No indication there are Dragonblooded clans or Solars, Lunars or other Infernals. There isnt an incipient Apocalypse here, thankfully, for all Nemesis efforts at making it so.

2)WoD is probably higher power. See the Week of Nightmares and the devastation of the Indian subcontinent for why. A vampire ancestor eats his way across half the subcontinent before fighting an entire sept of werewolves and three kuei-jin bodditsavas in the middle of a summoned typhoon, tanking multiple boosted nuclear bombs and finally ended by orbital solar laser satellites.

Millions dead. Bangladesh and large swathes of India wrecked. Coverup executed.

1) Unfortunately, it does not say stackable in any part of the charm text. I say unfortunately, because we'd have bought it and started using on the Reds from our house and phone. So I dont think we can activate it multiple times on an ememy operation. We could use Curse when we get the Path, but no fiat backing, and I expect Sodhe sorcerers can deal with that.

2)According to Battlegrounds?
Mab has War charms. At least, whatever the Sidhe equivalent is. That we dont see Bureaucracy charm-equivalents doesnt mean they dont exist; the woman has been fighting a war for centuries, after all.



Low level changes whose full implications will only come clear in decades hence.

The Paranet does not exist yet. It was a significant change, but basically US only, which is like a twentieth of the human population.
South America unfortunately was already in turmoil because the Reds liked it that way; its more so as of the end of Changes, but we havent had an update since.

The masquerade doesnt really exist in Chicago any longer as of the end of Battlegrounds.
Outside it, yes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'll note word of jim by the end of dresden files dresden will have the choice to end the world or not. How, no idea or even if its directly or just letting the world end through being passive I don't know. But, the world clearly can end.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Bolded bits disagree. The list given here is of people who would not so much win as continue to exist after the fight, which includes cowl explicitly. It also qualifies such a fight as one where Mab gets caught on outside of her and uses none of the resources of her position.

It notably doesn't include the people who could stomp her without question, like Uriel or one of the minor angels that show up working with him from time to time.

Cowl wouldn't have been small time, but the darkhallow would ultimately "just" been enough to buy him a slot in the heavy weight division, not a clean shot at the championship belt.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes as I said the continue to exist part is continuing to live with the consequences of it killing mab doesn't come free it comes with consequences.
 
Yog said:
No she didn't. She called it shintai. There's no textual evidence that Molly gets the knowledge of how the charms are called. At all.
Calling it shintai the previous time it was used was argued for using completely different logic.

EDIT:
Please provide evidence of this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To my recollection, Exalted understand the nature of their charms when they learn them. That includes their names. Its the nature of the power. Thats why two Solars who have never met and speak different languages both use the name Heaven Thunder Hammer for the same technique.

Unless thats explicitly noted as having changed for ExWoD, I assume it still holds true.
 
uju32 said:
Not how Infernal Hells in ExWoD are supposed to work AFAIK.
While Holden may have been inspired by the Tiger Empire model used in Kerisgame, its not a one to one conversion
You dont get 2CDs and 3CDs . The inhabitants are all independent people, not shards of your personality. And so on.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean, the kingdom is stated to be the manifestation of your soul in the text. It is your world body, which in exalted cosmology is how Primordials work. In ExvsWoD you cannot naturally control it, like Primordials of old could, but then you are a nascent and starved Primordial in a world bare of Essence.

My guess would be that the development of proper soul hierarchy would be E6 transcencion, where you stop being human.

uju32 said:
To my recollection, Exalted understand the nature of their charms when they learn them. That includes their names. Its the nature of the power. Thats why two Solars who have never met and speak different languages both use the name Heaven Thunder Hammer for the same technique.

Unless thats explicitly noted as having changed for ExWoD, I assume it still holds true.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Molly understands what she can do with her charms. She doesn't get their names in Old Realm, like she got [Perfected Principle of Consumption]. The names aren't internal to the charms, as I understand. They are labels applied to natural patterns in which Molly's spirit expresses itself. Usum might remember the names, but so far we have no evidence that Molly knows proper nomenclature.
 
BronzeTongue said:
It's a mutual KO, and requires she face it on the second worst possible territory it could happen on. I think you're exaggerating things by implication by describing it as any sort of potential victory.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
no its not a mutual ko otherwise they would of said that it as much says its not so much winning as continuing to exist you can't continue to exist if its a tie. I'm not saying they have a guaranteed win or anything just that in the scenario of 1v1 they can win just winning isn't very good as killing a queen has consequences.
 
Edits made.

VOTE
[X]Plan Joyful Cessation of Restraint
-[X]Turn 2: No actions
--[X]Full defense
--[X]Shintai Activation: 1 turn of concentration: -2 Essence, -2WP
-[X]Turn 3: 2 combat actions
--[X]Attack Action: Attack + Green Nimbus Sun Flare. -1 DC = DC6 + DC1 = DC7: -1 Essence
--[X]Defense Action: Parry with Dark Sun. -2 DC = DC4 + DC2 = DC 6.
--[X]STUNT: They were further along than we thought were your first, oddly calm thoughts as the naggingly familiar monster began to swarm across the floor towards your party. Explains why the Reds were stalling.Wish I'd remembered to bring some cold iron. "Wall the door, Lydia" you bark as you aboutface, letting your father past you at notWolverine as you settle into a stabler stance, the bruising of your shoulder all but forgotten. "Then you and Dad join me if you can." Your full regard settles like a weight on the approaching enemy, mental defences shedding its aura like water. "You should not have left your prison, Old One." Your voice is at a normal volume, almost conversational, but somehow you feel everyone in the building can hear your next words as, for a moment, your eyes burn green. "Shintai."


Effects:
Imperial Primacy Mantle: Mental defenses
Viridian Legend Exoskeleton: +4 Soak
Scar-Writ Saga Shield: -1 DC to soak rolls. Soak DC is now 5.
Melee Excellency: 2x combat turns
Rage Recast Aspects: Flight, Transcendent Anathema.
Anima Banner: Active. Surprise negator


Normal Status
Essence 6-3/12= 3/12
Temp WP 7-2/9 = 5/9
Current HL = 9/11
Wound penalty: 0
Max Movement rate = 32 yards/turn


Shintai Status: ACTIVE
Strength +1, Dexterity +4, Stamina +1 = Strength 5, Dexterity 8, Stamina 4
Soak = Stamina 4 + Ebon Scales 1 + VLE 5(highest is Strength) + Demon Armor 4 = 14
Current HL = 12/12
Max Movement = Base 32 x Swift Stride 2 = 64 yards/turn
Melee Dicepool = Dex 8 + Melee 5 + Excellency 9 + Stunt 2 = 24 dice

EXPLANATION
Turn 2: We fully defend, and concentrate on transforming.
Talking is a free action.

Turn 3: Shintai is now active.
We have 1x turn of Excellency left before we have to renew it; our dice pool is 24, our attack DC is 6, and our Parry DC is 4.
2 combat actions are taken at dice and DC penalties. Attack gets priority this turn.
-Attack: -1DC and -1 die = DC7 and 23 dice.
-Defense: -2DC and -2 die = DC 6 and 22 dice.
Use GSNF to impose wound penalties immediately on the Raksha.

I get the impression that seeing the Raksha out of the tank with no barriers might not be healthy for a lot of the cultists either.
But Im willing to see how that turns out.
 
Last edited:
Yog said:
I mean, the kingdom is stated to be the manifestation of your soul in the text. It is your world body, which in exalted cosmology is how Primordials work. In ExvsWoD you cannot naturally control it, like Primordials of old could, but then you are a nascent and starved Primordial in a world bare of Essence.

My guess would be that the development of proper soul hierarchy would be E6 transcencion, where you stop being human.


Molly understands what she can do with her charms. She doesn't get their names in Old Realm, like she got [Perfected Principle of Consumption]. The names aren't internal to the charms, as I understand. They are labels applied to natural patterns in which Molly's spirit expresses itself. Usum might remember the names, but so far we have no evidence that Molly knows proper nomenclature.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
-The Hell itself yes, sure. Heart, soul and Essence.
The inhabitants no, at least other than the spirit of the place. Holden intentionally said nothing about the origins of the inhabitants, so you're free to fluff that as you wish.

-She doesnt need to get their names in Old Realm to get their names.
The names of Exalted Sorcery spells might differ from locale to locale, as I understand it.
But charms? Nope.

The American Solar will call Heaven Thunder Hammer in English, while the Indian Solar will call it the same in Hindi.
Its in the nature of the Exaltation itself.
Thats my understanding.
 
Are we really so sure that this is going to be our last and biggest fight of the day?
 
[X]Plan Joyful Cessation of Restraint

@DragonParadox could you make the next update continue to be from Michael's pov? I'd like to know what feelings he as a Knight of the Cross get from Molly temporarily becoming a Demon Emperor.
 
Azais said:
[X]Plan Joyful Cessation of Restraint

@DragonParadox could you make the next update continue to be from Michael's pov? I'd like to know what feelings he as a Knight of the Cross get from Molly temporarily becoming a Demon Emperor.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Unfortunately I am not sure I can do that, Michael is hard to write for me right now and the combat makes the tempo even more tricky.I will try to get a shintai from his PoV eventually though.
 
uju32 said:
4) Thats the name of the technique.
She's already internalized it, just like she's aware that the Usum was a demon and her cyberdevils are escapees from Yomi Wan.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We do not have to use the silly names IC.
Molly hasn't done so, so far.

uju32 said:
Citation?
I went back to check, and it doesnt say that in the Infernal chapter. Or indeed in the Lunar chapter with their Rage form.
Additionally, the Shih MA section seems to say that the boosted Attributes from Shih MA techniques are what Excellencies key off.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's in the FAQ at the end of the book.
Does [thing that raises a trait] increase the amount of dice my Excellence Charm gives me?
Unless it explicitly says it does, no. Those Charms only care about the permanent dots on your character sheet. A Lunar's shapeshifting never empowers her Excellence Charms, for example (although she can have both bonuses active at once).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
fictionfan said:
Are we really so sure that this is going to be our last and biggest fight of the day?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No.
But a Raksha that was apparently powerful enough to be a chtonic monster-god out of Finnish mythology is sufficiently Serious Business that you bring your A-game if you want to put it down without egregious civilian or personal casualties.

Remember, this is a nursing home/assisted living facility.
There's at least a hundred seniors in the building above our heads, probably a lot more. We dont need this shit to drag out.

If we have bleach and a bathtub we can recover 4 Essence every hour of soaking and heal any injury.
And thats not counting what WP regen we get from this fight.
So unless a a subesequent fight comes immediately, we can recover.
Artemis1992 said:
We do not have to use the silly names IC.
Molly hasn't done so, so far.


It's in the FAQ at the end of the book.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thank you for the citation.
That means we have a dice pool of 24 with the Excellency active, and are attacking with 23 dice and defending with 22.
Lemme edit my math.
 
Last edited:
uju32 said:
-The Hell itself yes, sure. Heart, soul and Essence.
The inhabitants no, at least other than the spirit of the place. Holden intentionally said nothing about the origins of the inhabitants, so you're free to fluff that as you wish.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You are right, yes. Human inhabitants (and I assume devil ones) get history going prior to the creation of the kingdom, but beyond that it's free to fluff. I personally, would make it so devil inhabitants, if chosen, are first circle demon equivalents, and we are sorta-kinda working backwards to becoming a full primordial. Ie as our enlightenment grows, second circles might emerge, and finally third circles, of which one at some distant post exaltation future becomes our fetich.

uju32 said:
Its in the nature of the Exaltation itself.
Thats my understanding.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I am fairly sure that this isn't how it works at least in this quest. From what I read, Molly got feelings, certainties, understanding, but no names. The charms are treated as extensions of her power's growth, not something pre-made and packaged. She doesn't get access to her own spreadsheet with everything labeled. In fact, the names would make little sense, since the charms have changed from the First Age. There are some charms that didn't exist then. Some that work differently. It makes sense for them to be unnamed.

And in ExvsWoD the large part of the assumption is that exalts have no idea what's going on. Getting the names for their charms would detract from that, I feel. Make the exaltations too mechanistic. I could see alchemical exalts getting names, and maybe sidereals, but not others.
uju32 said:
No.
But a Raksha that was apparently powerful enough to be a chtonic monster-god out of Finnish mythology is sufficiently Serious Business that you bring your A-game if you want to put it down without egregious civilian or personal casualties.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Assuming it is that raksha, and not its spawn / lesser self / etc. If nothing else, I got a feeling that the thing in our vision was much larger.
 
^^^
Raksha feed on Wyld energies or emotions. Its had neither
Homey over there has been on an enforced diet for several thousand years, assuming that Finnish mythology is accurate.
It needs fattening up.

And a lot of spirits dont die when killed. They can rebuikd themselsves.
Which is why we may well need to stuff it back in its prison after beating it.
At the very least we dont want to leave a body lying around.
 
firefrog600 said:
no its not a mutual ko otherwise they would of said that it as much says its not so much winning as continuing to exist you can't continue to exist if its a tie. I'm not saying they have a guaranteed win or anything just that in the scenario of 1v1 they can win just winning isn't very good as killing a queen has consequences.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It literally says neither of them win; dying is pretty definitively losing, and surviving after killing your opponent at that grade is a win. You're describing the opposite of what's stated in the WoJ.

You're right that it doesn't make sense for them both to survive, but it's applicable here because we're already talking about a white room fight. You can't apply context on the consequences but not the fight or how it was arranged.

If you start talking about what happens the moment after Mab and Cowl beat each other unconscious then you also need to talk about where Mab's armies, high grade faerie sorcerers, various (retired) divine tier vassals, and assorted contacts are during the fight in addition to explaining why she decided to have it out on a disadvantageous battleground.
 
Yog said:
I personally, would make it so devil inhabitants, if chosen, are first circle demon equivalents, and we are sorta-kinda working backwards to becoming a full primordial. Ie as our enlightenment grows, second circles might emerge, and finally third circles, of which one at some distant post exaltation future becomes our fetich.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Mostly agree with this, but I think our fetich soul will be made out of the remains of our human vessel when we ascend to full Primordial-hood.

At least from my understanding, (which is admittedly limited on this front) the fetich is the primary seat of decision-making in a Primordial, and that's going to be in our human form up until the very moment we ascend, so why move it when it can simply be the last step of the transformation?
 
BronzeTongue said:
It literally says neither of them win; dying is pretty definitively losing, and surviving after killing your opponent at that grade is a win. You're describing the opposite of what's stated in the WoJ.

You're right that it doesn't make sense for them both to survive, but it's applicable here because we're already talking about a white room fight. You can't apply context on the consequences but not the fight or how it was arranged.

If you start talking about what happens the moment after Mab and Cowl beat each other unconscious then you also need to talk about where Mab's armies, high grade faerie sorcerers, various (retired) divine tier vassals, and assorted contacts are during the fight in addition to explaining why she decided to have it out on a disadvantageous battleground.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
no its not surviving killing mab isn't much of a win if the world is now shit now is it. Unless your an outsider. The literal question is who could possibly beat mab in a 1v1. its not who would mutual and none of the options is a mutual kill.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top