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Hugh's Perfectly Normal Mafia Game Where Nothing Weird Happens Whatsoever

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RoachTV said:
I think it should be restated that, we know this game is bastard, and whoever ends up being voted off or night killed, their role reveals might not always align exactly with their true roles. Or, possibly, there could be no role reveals on death at all. Who knows what goes on in that sick, twisted mind... :<
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This so far is still the worst post in the game, trying to add doubt to the accuracy to a death flip, even in a bastard game, isn't a good luck especially as a person fairly likely to be eliminated, it screams, "If I flip scum, don't trust the people that eliminated me because its false" which yes you shouldn't blindly trust people that eliminate scum because, blindly following anyone that does something vaguely towny isn't neccesarily town, but still a very bad post and one that almost made me switch back to Roach at the end there.

Zaealix said:
*Raises eyebrow*
Yanno, IDK about what Roach had to say about that death flip stuff but Comi said something about what if death flips give vote weight and THAT was a bit of speculation I didn't like just conceptually.
The lynch is THE weapon of Town. Making it unreliable demands aplenty of vigilantes and other kill powers placed in Town to counter-balance that…
Can't say that's not a thing here but I feel like it's a step beyond typical Bastard set-ups.
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You responded to the post not long afterward, the concept begins with "not a real theory"

The point of the question is simply to gauge player's thoughts on their current vote targets. Was it a good question, not really frankly, but some discussion was had because of it, and I think I was pretty clear its not something I actually thought was possible in the game.

ComiTurtle said:
Okay been busy at work so meant to post infrequently through this last few hours but here we go.

Not a real theory but I want quick thoughts on how such would change people's play:

The day elimination has a 50% chance that instead of killing the target they gain +1 vote weight for the rest of the game. How would knowing that was the world change your current votes?

In my opinion I feel fine with my roach elimination target because even if I'm wrong I'm not so confident that I've caught scum and roach isn't a horrid player to gain an additional vote weight.
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Just that post for reference and most of the posts following it are in reference to it.
Wies said:
An important vote that made a scia lynch viable. Why was Scia on your suspect list?
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This is a surprising question, given previous stated vague read of myself,

Wies said:
@ComiTurtle Few posts, but I like his reads, vibe with them. Also pokes people with good questions. Not going to vote him today.
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Yes reads can and should evolve with extra context but I do think there is at least a show here of suspicions on Scia especially as I respond to Ori's question.

ComiTurtle said:
First off we have 15 players, we remove yourself as a target and myself because I'm not going to suggest my own demise, so I have 13 targets. Remove Wies, MiracleGrow, ICantRemember, and Chipernierm because of new player night 1 courtesy. We are now down to 9 players. And then remove Shadell because eliminated day 1 in the previous game. With that we have 8 players remaining:

99Lies - Slightly more out-there than normal 99Lies posts, nothing big, maybe some confusion on the Shadell question with the answer, hate the "I've been framed post"
-Rosen - Not much to be enthused about here currently, I've seen both much townier and much scumier Rosen in the past but there isn't a whole lot of content and even admits as much.
Nictis - Outside of a outlining of the history of SV bastard games, been in their little gimmick, I do not like most of their messaging around acting blindly, and if we didn't get the bit outside of the formatting I would actually suspect it being a power based requirement and agreeing to their posts directly having some effect, not enthused here.
Logos - Don't really think the plays so far have been the most effective, but is questioning players and answering questions, an avoid for kill for now.
RoachTV - Self vote on Meme-phase is red flag after AlphaDelta and I did it as scum and now always pings as negative personally. Second post is then pushing you to reveal. Wies vote is okay, though voting the person questioning you about your early vote is well... suspect. Post 118 is fine, but I'm noting the "What is importat for scum is knowing the roles of the town... but that's not what I was asking." is true in this post and the post chain that prompted it but not true of Roach's second post in game. Chiperninerm vote feels random.
Draxy - Draxy's main focus of note is on the Nictis play going between being suspect of it to going in line with it, not the best look in my opinion.
Scia - Reserved, strange SK question, but here, if anything I want an @Scia for what they got out of the SK question at least at current.
Zaealix - Not much, I have some tin-foil that one of those first posts before the reapearance is indicating knowledge of some part of the game but I really just don't have much to go on.

Given the ISO on all of those players right now I'd say eliminate Roach, most suspicious actions overall, and with probably a back up of say Roach is eliminated, Scia if my question isn't responded to or 99lies for the I'm framed bit.
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I list Scia as someone worth being shot, that I don't quite like their SK question, and indicate I want more. So of the people I tell Ori to shoot between I vote for 2 of the 3 throughout the rest of the day?

Additionally as just general statements, tied elimination votes are extra mega bad in mafia games, and probably even more bad in a bastard game. There are times when no one is eliminated, both players are eliminated, a random player is eliminated (either from everyone in the game or only those within the tie votes), the GM picking the worst option for town to be eliminated, or any other wacky and horrible solution.

Going from my main scum read to the player they are tied with is by far the most useful move I can make when I don't think I'll be able to pull anyone else into my preferred vote target. And I thrive off of dead bodies in these games, dead town tell much, dead scum more, but despite the fact that the dead (generally) can't speak they are the source we get concrete information out of that can give us the clues to solve the case that is within every mafia game.

Walker said:
I'm nowhere near leveling accusations yet, but for top two points of concern, I'd probably say Comi and Nictis. Neither of them have done anything explicitly wrong yet, but I feel somewhat concerned about both, for different reasons.

ComiTurtle kicking off the Scia bandwagon is a little weird to me; I can't specifically say that it's scummy, but the decision to target Scia seems rather abrupt. If they do another late vote switch that kicks off a bandwagon, I'm going to wonder.
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My I don't like ties vote is a start of a bandwagon? That I started at like the last 30ish minutes of the phase when the votes were tied 3/3 or maybe less because I think Logos was on the Roach vote with me and nulled about the time I voted? I don't disagree with maybe finding me suspicious but I think calling it a bandwagon is a bit inaccurate. Also really don't like the idea that you are sort of indicating it would be suspect for me to vote people? That is the power we all share, it is a power I will use, and I will use it to push my faction whenever and on whoever I want it to be used on.
 
My current number one suspect is Logos. They came to support me early on which was a kind move, but the doctor claim makes me a bit suspicious.

I don't know just how ill advised their role claim, but in my mind it would be safer for them to just say an arsonist didn't target Nic. The doctor role, like any other life saving roles, should be a priority target for the mafia as they negatively impact the efficiency of night kills and give the town more chances. Unless Logos is certain that another person will protect them, they will die tonight.

Also such an early claim makes me suspicious that Logos wants the Ethos of the doctor role to support their claim of a second killer. Introducing another factor into the town's investigation will slow down the investigation of the mafia. Time and energy diverted in looking for a better independent killer can not be recovered.

So role reveal will test the proof of the role claim.

Then my next pick is Z as the ability claim someone as not mafia without any further information or seems like something any of the Mafia can do. But their active questioning and explanation for why they are not trying to pocket the miller helps explain away the suspicion.

So between these two people I would vote for one that is the least harmful to town if true. The doctor, in my mind, has equal utility to a mafia spotter, but has an advantage in reducing the mafia's action economy. That said it doesn't fully remove my suspicions, but do to their health I'll hold off on the vote.

I have time tomorrow to vote once they explain their rationale.
 
I think my biggest issue with the doc claim was how casual it was, and there was no real reaction to me threatening Logos at EOD1.

Like I don't think a doc does that unless they feel really safe for some reason, I can think of multiple reasons why they might feel safe to do it but almost all of them at this juncture are bad.

(Just to spell it out my condition requires another person with my role to target the same person to kill them, the reasons I chose to lean into it so heavily was hoping to confirm the other vig was wanting to work with me and it reduces the odds they just get sniped early and I'm made useless. However as this is a bastard game I honestly would consider it more than reasonable odds the other Parity Vig is just straight up a scum role and the only thing I will get to kill is townies, which again is a mark against Logos with the caveat that the other Parity vig is also just town but a coward!!!!)
 
Yeah I think I just want Logos dead -

Logos said:
Though out of curiosity, it's day 1. Are you expecting a loud daycop or something? Otherwise, I'm not sure what kind of shocking event might happen, short of me walking out with a roleclaim for some unfathomable reason.
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This seems kinda weird in context with Start of Day 2.

[X] Vote Logos
 
Wies said:
Noted. Thanks! Do you have suspects as well?
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not as such, but Roach remains the one withe the worst vibes imo. The way they interact feels... Off?

Nictis said:
I know exactly what you mean re: gutreads not being substantial, but the simple truth is that there's not really much of anything to build reads off of currently. The only really major things of note that occurred were people claiming to have

Sorry, just thought of something. Why did LDJ say that he healed me again?
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I don't think I ever said that, though.
 
Logos is also in the bottom of the vibes chart for me, but while yeeting some who's already in for a replacement isn't harmful to the game state, I also worry that it won't be helpful either.
 
Draxy said:
@ComiTurtle you're let to post today, I'm curious to know you're current thoughts. What's your current top three scum reads, if you have any?
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RoachTV is proper scum read,

Then we get into much murkier territory, and I sort of need to do some questioning to position some things around at this time. For the most part I can more accurately give my town reads than my scum ones because too many are easily in the sludge of scum right now.

Zaealix is town, and honestly probably truthful, overzealous but truthful. I believe their role is to simply look for 3rd parties or something, because with both Nictis claiming Miller, and a miller in 99lies dead, I'm expecting part of the bastard is nearly useless or very very specific investigation roles, like may only find 1 person in the game correct and half the rest pointless, with a false read in there or something.

Ori seems a bit more legitmate especially after the claim of how their power works, (though the real bastard thing is that their isn't actually a second person to get the power to succeed with). I wish there wasn't the buddying with me day 1 but I hold true to my reads then.

Nictis, despite everything this seems like town Nictis to me, its early and it could change, but Nictis only RPGs when they are having fun, and with less bloodlust than normal I think its more townsided than not.

If you wanted me to quick pick 2 more people to be on the scum list it would be Logos and Shadell for making unnecessary early claims.

RoachTV said:
Honestly I think pressure would be better spent in other places. So, @ComiTurtle @Chiperninerm @Draxy : you have a one-shot dayvig you can only use today. Who are you shooting and why? This is also open to anyone I just wanted to get some more out of the people that haven't stuck with me so far this game.
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RoachTV. :V

Your statement on the flips while you were on death's door was so exorbidantly bad that if there was any momentum at that moment to change my vote and get you out in time I would've done basically anything, and the rest of your player this day isn't as egregious but doesn't rectify it.

[X] Vote RoachTV
 
Also for some other things,

@Chiperninerm did anything of note happen to you last night? Not even what if something did just if anything of interest happen?

@Walker, @Wies, and @Draxy say you have the ability to fully fact check a single post from any 2 players, what two players do you want to confirm a statement about the most?
 
I think I should explain my EoD post from D1 now rather than later. To be transparent, I feel like it would be better now to give me a chance to stop any momentum on my wagon, rather than later which could look desperate. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

My role is the coroner. So, I look at dead players and get their role and alignment. Hence, knowing that we may not always be able to trust death flips is why I believed that it was important to share that information.

Unfortunately, I don't have anything particularly juicy to share last night as Scia did indeed return as vanilla Town to me.

If you think me claiming is a misplay: oops, my bad!
 
Well, some good news. Switching medicines seems to have worked. Lots of drowsiness, but light doesn't hurt anymore, which is Progress. So I'm now back.

RoachTV said:
Something in my role description leads me to believe that, to quote Wizards of Waverly Place, everything is not what it seems.
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And this was enough to make you think that death flips may be unreliable?
Edit while writing: Ah. If you're the coroner, then yes this is reasonable as a suspicion, though I'd say this was a terrible way to bring it up.
Though I find myself a bit skeptical regardless of a coroner claim in a game with death flips. To me, I'd put in a coroner if it's intended to interact with either some way to hide info - such as a janitor or death framer - or if there were an additional mechanic to bring players back, informed by being able to see full rolecards. Otherwise, it's just a role that does little except maybe be confirmable by a tracker.
If we see dead players returning, I should think you'll be a prime suspect.
OriginalName said:
I think my biggest issue with the doc claim was how casual it was, and there was no real reaction to me threatening Logos at EOD1.

Like I don't think a doc does that unless they feel really safe for some reason, I can think of multiple reasons why they might feel safe to do it but almost all of them at this juncture are bad.
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You were threatening me? EoD1 and up to this reread I thought you had some manner of role checking ability, restricted by needing to announce it beforehand, to go with what looked like a vig ability restricted by needing another player to tell you to target someone in-thread.

Which is why I discarded just claiming that my night return indicated that we have an arsonist, and ultimately went with a full claim. If, say, your vibe check was a rolecop, you would have quite reasonably said that nothing in my role would indicate that, and then town is distracted in that mess of crossed claims.

As for feeling safe, it's kind of funny that you'd remark on this, because that was a large part of why I was hesitant to claim. I'm gambling that an open doctor claim is simply too good a target for scum, and that they'll second-guess themselves. Maybe it's not a great gamble, but it's the one I'm going with.
OriginalName said:
This seems kinda weird in context with Start of Day 2.
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Finding what looked like evidence of an arsonist existing seemed pressing enough a reason to claim at the time. Still waffling on if that was worth it.

Now, on a few questions from yesterday that haven't been answered yet.
Logos said:
@-Rosen, reading back through today's posts, it feels like you're making a lot of posts while being careful to say little. In particular, I note during the meme phase you've made four posts that say nothing, and touch only the one person who voted for you first. The two posts following the meme phase's conclusion are better, as expected, but still interact with the game as little as possible.

So I'm going to prompt, and see what you have. We've had some discussion now, so there should be a bit to work off of. Please pick out four people, and argue why you think they're more likely to be town, scum, or third-party.
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-Rosen said:
I'll be quite honest I'm really not in a place to be paying a ton of attention to the game at this point, so it's not that I'm being careful about what I say, it's that I haven't caught up enough to say a lot of things in the first place.

As for the second part, I'll get back on that later because I still haven't gotten the time to catch up.
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Are you able to compose a response, now?
Logos said:
@Nictis, please pick out three people, and choose who among them you would heal, track, or investigate, respectively, and why.
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While not as useful for breadcrumbing now, I'll note that you still haven't answered this, and ask if you'd like to? And I'll note an error in this asking, and clarify to please pick three other than yourself.
 
Wies said:
Who are the other two?

@Draxy What do you think of the gamestate so far? D1 You said you didn't have scum reads. Indeed, you didn't even vote at the end of D1. Is that still the case?
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Left my vote where it was yesterday, because I didn't like any of the wagons at the time and knew I'd be gone before EOD, didn't want to be responsible for any sudden last minute wagons when I didn't have good reads. Right now, still not too sure, need to do a proper reread of things. Right now would like some more stuff from @Shadell since it seems like they may be the partnered vig to Ori, with their current attempt at dayvig and apparently trying to vig hugh last night. Is that right? If so would like to know why you didn't try to arrange things with ori yesterday, when you're rather open about this today.

ComiTurtle said:
Also for some other things,

@Chiperninerm did anything of note happen to you last night? Not even what if something did just if anything of interest happen?

@Walker, @Wies, and @Draxy say you have the ability to fully fact check a single post from any 2 players, what two players do you want to confirm a statement about the most?
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At the moment Nic and Zae, would really like to know more about their claims. Did raise an eyebrow when Nic claimed miller, the same day a miller died, but that was more me not knowing what a miller was at the time than anything. I agree with what people have been saying, but still want some sort of confirmation before I clear those two.

As for the other maybe another player that's made a claim at this point of the game, or Wies. Wies I'm not sure on at the moment, haven't played with them before and they seem to be leading things the most here at the moment, which I find unusual for a new player (they are new to SV mafia right? Not just a returning player), far more used to new players being quieter and are currently standing out more than the other new player chip. They probably are town, but would like some form of check on them since I have no basis to compare against.
 
Actually, scratch that on Shadell completely misremembered their earlier post now I'm looking back. Would still like to see more from them though.

Also;
RoachTV said:
I think I should explain my EoD post from D1 now rather than later. To be transparent, I feel like it would be better now to give me a chance to stop any momentum on my wagon, rather than later which could look desperate. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

My role is the coroner. So, I look at dead players and get their role and alignment. Hence, knowing that we may not always be able to trust death flips is why I believed that it was important to share that information.

Unfortunately, I don't have anything particularly juicy to share last night as Scia did indeed return as vanilla Town to me.

If you think me claiming is a misplay: oops, my bad!
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Vanilla? But Scia was revealed as a backup?
 
I'd heal Zaealix, Track ComiTurtle and Investigate Shadell
 
ComiTurtle said:
My I don't like ties vote is a start of a bandwagon? That I started at like the last 30ish minutes of the phase when the votes were tied 3/3 or maybe less because I think Logos was on the Roach vote with me and nulled about the time I voted? I don't disagree with maybe finding me suspicious but I think calling it a bandwagon is a bit inaccurate. Also really don't like the idea that you are sort of indicating it would be suspect for me to vote people? That is the power we all share, it is a power I will use, and I will use it to push my faction whenever and on whoever I want it to be used on.
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Voting is a right and privilege enjoyed by every citizen of the United States, and one which they have a moral duty to employ every year. That you choose to exercise that right is a compliment to you! However, that you previously mentioned Scia exactly once prior to that switch prompted some doubt on my part, though it's by no means a damning indictment. Frankly, based on your previous D1 commentary, I would have expected you to fall towards Roach instead, on which note-
ComiTurtle said:
@Walker, @Wies, and @Draxy say you have the ability to fully fact check a single post from any 2 players, what two players do you want to confirm a statement about the most?
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Roach's post claiming coroner, in conjunction with their previous posting history and their concern about death flips has me doubtful about their allegiances. It seems very convenient that they've been raising concern about reveals for quite some time, and are now claiming they have the power to solve that problem - and while I recognize they might be telling the truth, the way it's presented almost feels like they're trying to justify the utter necessity of their continued existence for town.

I suppose my other choice would be Nictis' claim to miller as part of a greater role, because I still don't really have a good read on them, and while Zaealix's non-3P statement is encouraging, it's no guarantee that they're town-positive.
 
Walker said:
Roach's post claiming coroner, in conjunction with their previous posting history and their concern about death flips has me doubtful about their allegiances. It seems very convenient that they've been raising concern about reveals for quite some time, and are now claiming they have the power to solve that problem - and while I recognize they might be telling the truth, the way it's presented almost feels like they're trying to justify the utter necessity of their continued existence for town.
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... I mean, I feel like this is a fancy way of saying "hey, here's why I shouldn't be voted off" which, yes, is exactly why I'm presenting it this way.
 
ComiTurtle said:
This so far is still the worst post in the game, trying to add doubt to the accuracy to a death flip, even in a bastard game, isn't a good luck especially as a person fairly likely to be eliminated, it screams, "If I flip scum, don't trust the people that eliminated me because its false" which yes you shouldn't blindly trust people that eliminate scum because, blindly following anyone that does something vaguely towny isn't neccesarily town, but still a very bad post and one that almost made me switch back to Roach at the end there.
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Then why didn't you do it? Like, the amount of suspicion in your list on roach is so much bigger than on scia.

ComiTurtle said:
I list Scia as someone worth being shot, that I don't quite like their SK question, and indicate I want more. So of the people I tell Ori to shoot between I vote for 2 of the 3 throughout the rest of the day?
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You explicitly stated you preferred Roach above Scia to be eliminated.
ComiTurtle said:
Given the ISO on all of those players right now I'd say eliminate Roach, most suspicious actions overall, and with probably a back up of say Roach is eliminated, Scia if my question isn't responded to or 99lies for the I'm framed bit.
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Sorry, but your decisive vote for Scia instead of Roach doesn't track with earlier posts. Only thing that is giving me pause is that you are currently voting Roach. But maybe both Roach and Scia are townies and you opted for the less suspicious one to be eliminated so you could hang Roach the next day.


ComiTurtle said:
Going from my main scum read to the player they are tied with is by far the most useful move I can make when I don't think I'll be able to pull anyone else into my preferred vote target.
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Again, why not voting for your "main scum read" then? Why is it useful to just vote the player they are tied with?

I really want answers to this because your reasoning here isn't making sense to me.

Chiperninerm said:
So role reveal will test the proof of the role claim.
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Terrible reason to eliminate someone.

ComiTurtle said:
@Walker, @Wies, and @Draxy say you have the ability to fully fact check a single post from any 2 players, what two players do you want to confirm a statement about the most?
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This post of Ori. And hm, Roach's claim of coroner.

Draxy said:
Wies I'm not sure on at the moment, haven't played with them before and they seem to be leading things the most here at the moment, which I find unusual for a new player (they are new to SV mafia right? Not just a returning player
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I am new to SV mafia, but I have like played two games of mafia before.
 
Draxy said:
Left my vote where it was yesterday, because I didn't like any of the wagons at the time and knew I'd be gone before EOD, didn't want to be responsible for any sudden last minute wagons when I didn't have good reads.
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I don't like this reasoning. I am not going to rehash the mantra of " better to have voted than not to have voted at all" but here your non-vote seems to be borne out of a wish to shirk responsibility which feels to me more mafia than town.
 
Draxy said:
Vanilla? But Scia was revealed as a backup?
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No current powers, which could read as vanilla, particularly in a bastard game.

I do think a fake claim would generally want to be something more verifiable (to stay alive in the short term) or more useful (to avoid being killed better), so I'm not entirely sold, but I do tend to think that a weird claim is generally fairly solid here in that you're less likely to think of something like that, and it could be an important piece on the table with janitors/etc in play.
 
Popping in, fair warning: may not be present for EoD. I think I will be leaving my vote where it is.
 
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