Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
[X] Hint at the truth, see if they bite, ignorance certainly did not protect you (Charisma+Empathy)
[X] Hint at the truth, see if they bite, ignorance certainly did not protect you (Charisma+Empathy)
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] Talk about the attack at Splattercon!!! that was in the news right? (Charisma+Subterfuge)
- Location
- Germany
I've been reading more Exalted vs WoD and I 've got to say, the Exalted may not be quite as bullshit as they were in ages past, but the Sidereal still take the crown among them.
This is one of their Martial Arts charms:
This is one of their Martial Arts charms:
I'm not 100% sure how to read "present" here, but worst case you can wipe our entire bloodlines by beating up one vampire.
Oh yeah a Siderial could totally cut out that blood curse thing and jut beat the entire Red Court of death through its king.... though of course you would have to beat said king and his guards.
But that is a good marker for the power of the Chosen. You know that WMD grade ritual that an entire supernatural faction worked for months on powering up? Yeah the right kind of Exalt has that built in.
Not to say you are unbeatable, Molly right now is very much beatable and even at high motes there are plenty things in this verse that could kill her or worse but Charms do things that are straight up the domain of gods. Things that are what the Dresden Files RPG calls plot device level... aren't for you.
Vote is tied I'm leaving this one until morning
Nice to see so much back and forth, it's a nice reflection to what Molly would be feeling about now.
Nice to see so much back and forth, it's a nice reflection to what Molly would be feeling about now.
- Location
- United States
[X] Talk about the attack at Splattercon!!! that was in the news right? (Charisma+Subterfuge)
Why? Ignorance is no protection from the things that go bump in the night, just another avenue to exploit the weak.
I don't see how Molly can leave them in the dark and still consider them her friends.
Changing my vote.
[X] Talk about the attack at Splattercon!!! that was in the news right? (Charisma+Subterfuge)
[X] Talk about the attack at Splattercon!!! that was in the news right? (Charisma+Subterfuge)
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Because she barely knows what is going on right now. All these muggle kids are actually safer, and likely much happier, being kept in the dark. In DF, the vast majority of people have no interaction with the supernatural, and that's for the best, because there are so few real, practical methods they can use to protect themselves from it in any meaningful way.
If they remain ignorant, they're less likely to notice the odd supernatural occurrence they might otherwise witness, and if they don't notice it, the creatures involved are less likely to notice them in turn.
But tell a bunch of angst-ridden, hormone-infused teenagers about the supernatural, or worse, tell them and make them believe it, more than a few are going to go poking around looking for weird shit, and that's going to get them killed. Or worse than killed, which is all too possible when various kinds of magic and monsters are in play.
What are the chances of the supernatural going after those ignorant hormonal teenagers to get at Molly? It seems like a perfect avenue for petty fey and other enemies Molly made or will make to target the defenseless when she is not around.
I find telling them about the supernatural and possible ways to protect against (some protection and awareness is better than zero) non human/magical threats a plus for the safety of Molly's friends. Aren't protective charms (passive or word activation ones) a thing in Exhalted?
I find telling them about the supernatural and possible ways to protect against (some protection and awareness is better than zero) non human/magical threats a plus for the safety of Molly's friends. Aren't protective charms (passive or word activation ones) a thing in Exhalted?
[X] Hint at the truth, see if they bite, ignorance certainly did not protect you (Charisma+Empathy)
There's a reason for this. Yes, they might be safer not knowing. They were safe in canon DF. But Molly needs social peers. People to talk to. You can't keep friends without talking to them. It is selfish, yes.
Some long termish thoughts:
1) For getting money, craft charms would probably be the best. Entirely mundane crafts would be something we could do, and, given how broken they are, we could easily produce a lot of profit. The downside here is that potentially those crafted objects could be used as a conceptual link to us, but that's what shaping defenses are for.
2) On the subject of the crossover cosmology (if this had been discussed, sorry, I am not up to reading through the whole thread right now):
At first glance, the crossover maps easily enough. Nevernever is the Wyld, with different realities being different versions of Creation that at some point were connected by the Well of Udr. Fae are raksha, angels are devas of the Primordial YHWH (or, and more scarily, Theion or some version of him), etc. However, the Outer Gates put a wrench into this mapping. And the fact that at some point both fae courts were human. And the mantles function very close to how exaltations do. So, I would guess that faeries are, in fact, dragonblooded. Or rather a variation of exalted with genetics based exaltation, perhaps directly perversions / mutations of the dragonblooded lines, perhaps something made in their image. Exalted fae in this case would be Outsiders. The alternative possiblity is that they are servants of Neverborn, the dead Primordials still trying to die completely.
3) An imprortant point to bring up: True Resurrection and Time Travel are two things that are canonically impossible in Exalted setting. Full stop. True resurrection is forbidden Doylistically, as a way to ensure "consequences exist" rule. Time travel, however, is forbidden on the Watsonian level, as a direct consequence of the Primordial War, and ensured by the workings of Exalts, the Loom and other mechanisms underpining the reality. This was done, so the beings who invented causality didn't undo their own defeat.
In Dresdenverse, both these things are possible, and, in fact, were observed in the books. Time travel is forbidden, yes, but it can be done. Why is this relevant? Because Yozi are, in a way, the sum of their charms. Because while architects of Creation might be dead, buried, forgotten and painted over, as long as the possibility exists, there's no real way of stopping them from returning. The question is not "will they be back?". It's "who will claw their way out of Oblivion first - Oramus, Ebon Dragon or Luna?"
And this has practical implication: I note the "Brigid's Heir" in out stat sheets, allowing us to learn ancient sorcery once without a mentor or a grimoire. Based on what I mentioned above, I posit that we should learn demon summoning. Why? Because it is my belief that with proper preparation and a lot of luck, we might dredge up something from the Age of Legends. Even if it's dead. And we could bootstrap from there.
There's a reason for this. Yes, they might be safer not knowing. They were safe in canon DF. But Molly needs social peers. People to talk to. You can't keep friends without talking to them. It is selfish, yes.
Some long termish thoughts:
1) For getting money, craft charms would probably be the best. Entirely mundane crafts would be something we could do, and, given how broken they are, we could easily produce a lot of profit. The downside here is that potentially those crafted objects could be used as a conceptual link to us, but that's what shaping defenses are for.
2) On the subject of the crossover cosmology (if this had been discussed, sorry, I am not up to reading through the whole thread right now):
At first glance, the crossover maps easily enough. Nevernever is the Wyld, with different realities being different versions of Creation that at some point were connected by the Well of Udr. Fae are raksha, angels are devas of the Primordial YHWH (or, and more scarily, Theion or some version of him), etc. However, the Outer Gates put a wrench into this mapping. And the fact that at some point both fae courts were human. And the mantles function very close to how exaltations do. So, I would guess that faeries are, in fact, dragonblooded. Or rather a variation of exalted with genetics based exaltation, perhaps directly perversions / mutations of the dragonblooded lines, perhaps something made in their image. Exalted fae in this case would be Outsiders. The alternative possiblity is that they are servants of Neverborn, the dead Primordials still trying to die completely.
3) An imprortant point to bring up: True Resurrection and Time Travel are two things that are canonically impossible in Exalted setting. Full stop. True resurrection is forbidden Doylistically, as a way to ensure "consequences exist" rule. Time travel, however, is forbidden on the Watsonian level, as a direct consequence of the Primordial War, and ensured by the workings of Exalts, the Loom and other mechanisms underpining the reality. This was done, so the beings who invented causality didn't undo their own defeat.
In Dresdenverse, both these things are possible, and, in fact, were observed in the books. Time travel is forbidden, yes, but it can be done. Why is this relevant? Because Yozi are, in a way, the sum of their charms. Because while architects of Creation might be dead, buried, forgotten and painted over, as long as the possibility exists, there's no real way of stopping them from returning. The question is not "will they be back?". It's "who will claw their way out of Oblivion first - Oramus, Ebon Dragon or Luna?"
And this has practical implication: I note the "Brigid's Heir" in out stat sheets, allowing us to learn ancient sorcery once without a mentor or a grimoire. Based on what I mentioned above, I posit that we should learn demon summoning. Why? Because it is my belief that with proper preparation and a lot of luck, we might dredge up something from the Age of Legends. Even if it's dead. And we could bootstrap from there.
Citation on ignorance actually making them safer, and it less likely for the supernatural to notice them. Cause while that is sometimes how it's said to work, that is never how it's shown to work in Dresden Files.
You don't stop predators, whether in real life or in fiction, by refusing to talk about them. You don't stop criminals by stonewalling the police. The fact that said predators seem to have convinced everyone otherwise is actually kind of impressive in a stupid kind of way.
These are Dresden verse humans, people that see Harry get into full knock down drag out fights, on the regular and refuse to admit the supernatural is real full stop. Nobody maintains the masquerade, humans don't need need any help to disbelieve stuff. Breaking people of their ignorance would basically require blowing all our essences to drain their willpower to zero.
It should be noted that Storm Front starts like this:
The end of the twentieth century and the dawn of the new millennium had seen something of a renaissance in the public awareness of the paranormal. Psychics, haunts, vampires—you name it. People still didn't take them seriously, but all the things Science had promised us hadn't come to pass. Disease was still a problem. Starvation was still a problem. Violence and crime and war were still problems. In spite of the advance of technology, things just hadn't changed the way everyone had hoped and thought they would.
Science, the largest religion of the twentieth century, had become somewhat tarnished by images of exploding space shuttles, crack babies, and a generation of complacent Americans who had allowed the television to raise their children. People were looking for something—I think they just didn't know what.
Yes most people are willfully blind and have been that way for a while, but things change, beliefs shift, the Wheel of Ages turns.
To be fair, a vast majority of the people who disbelieve have never seen credible evidence of it personally. Tech tends to fail so the records are always flaky, and the monsters tend to not be cooperative about being revealed one way or another.
The people who get more than three seconds of confused brawling as evidence do tend to come around pretty quickly.
Many of them deny it because they don't feel they can prove anything, but you'll still see them do things like start taking Dresden more seriously.
We see that most clearly with the cops; the more they interact with Dresden's bullshit the less they treat him like a con artist.
Tech failing a short ranged for the most part, and even then it just mostly Dresden having less then perfect control. Other wizards, or lesser powerful ones don't have nearly as much trouble. Nor does it prevent other methods of recording information.
While people might believe Dresden during a case, it is canon that they will rapidly forget/rewrite their memories. After a week they will doubt if it actually happened, by a year they have completely erased any supernatural involvement in the event. The only reason SI comes around is because the keep encountering magical things, and even then it took years for most of them to come around.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It's Exalted vs WoD instead of regular Exalted so a lot of the stuff's different @Jack vile Ripper could probably explain it better.
Citation? I remember at least a few characters who went without any supernatural contact for years and still remembered everything when they met Dresden again.
Depends on the supernatural.
The Wizards and Vampires are all mortal enough to break the rules - the problem is that the masquerade protects them substantially - you might get the odd loose cannon, or opportunistic predation, but they won't take overt action if they can avoid it.
The Fey, Demons, and other such literally cannot touch ignorant humans unless they enter into their metaphysical 'turf'.
The Outsiders and Gods...well, depends on whether you know about them. Knowing about them is not usually a good thing.
The danger is that once you are in the know, your protection is half gone - its up to your wits and knowledge to stay safe because a lot of the lines you cross only matter if you're capable of acknowledging that the lines exist.
You could draw parallels to giving someone a gun - if you do it, you'd best teach them how to use it because they're now a higher priority target in a fight and will find it much easier to hurt themselves.