Fire Emblem: Last of the Manakete

WanderingTwix said:

Something to give standing... I'm not sure what this would be? We still look like a child at the end of the day, so unless we shout out that we're a manakete to the world, I'm not sure what this would do for us?

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From the perspective of a human with a general understanding of fantasy societies, that would probably involve giving us some kind of title, some money, and maybe an estate to go with it. We'd have basically the same status as any underaged heir to petty dead nobility. It wouldn't be nothing; in fact, in a different kind of game it would make a good step 1 in our world domination plan.

But this isn't that kind of game, and Ryza isn't that kind of dragon.

ChronOblivion said:

I do want to reclaim out original home in its entirety, but that's something that can come later.

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Eh...I have mixed feelings about that.

First off, I think of Quests as interactive stories, and stories have themes, even if you're not writing an eighth-grade book report. The juxtaposition of "Reclaiming Ryza's old home" with two options about her place in human society makes it feel like there's a tension between those two ideas—between Ryza sticking to her manakete roots, and finding a new life among humans. In other circumstances this would be a nuanced dilemma, but as far as we know, there are no other manaketes. Living as a manakete, rejecting life among humanity, means dwelling on past tragedies, and that just doesn't seem helpful.

From a more practical perspective, I can only think of three things that reclaiming Ryza's old home would get her—stuff, memories, and isolation. AFAIK, the stuff is portable; the memories are a mixed bag; and the isolation even more so, but mostly a negative.

There are absolutely things that could change my mind, but I don't think anything could change my mind right now. At the heart of things, Ryza moving back to her old home permanently means Ryza living alone; if something happened to change that (like a bunch of her friends wanting to move in with her, or finding out that a bunch of other manakete children were also put into slumber like Ryza), I'd be more open to reclaiming her old home. But for now, nothing like that seems likely.

TaliesinSkye said:

[X] Ask for something
-[X] "My family...they're gone, mother and father died protecting me. I don't have anyone now, except Artemis. Mother and father would...would want me to be around people who care about me. If there's something you can do so that I can be accepted in human society and be able to spend time with Artemis, I'd like that. I'm not really sure how human nobility works. Would I need a title and some lands to be your ward or something, so I could live here? If you let me stay I can promise I'll keep Artemis safe. I want to do that anyway."

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Read quickly, this seems like a prosaic and slightly more specific version of the "permanent home" option. But approval voting is standard here, so it's not like I sacrifice anything by supporting two variations of the same proposal. (Or two, plus an un-typo'd version of one which hardly anyone is using.) And it's not like I have a problem with the prose or specifics.

[X] Allow Phoebe to join the discussion, you like her.
[X]Ask for something
-[X] Ask for a permeant home here in Agrithe.
-[X] Ask for a permanent home here in Agrithe.
-[X] "My family...they're gone, mother and father died protecting me. I don't have anyone now, except Artemis. Mother and father would...would want me to be around people who care about me. If there's something you can do so that I can be accepted in human society and be able to spend time with Artemis, I'd like that. I'm not really sure how human nobility works. Would I need a title and some lands to be your ward or something, so I could live here? If you let me stay I can promise I'll keep Artemis safe. I want to do that anyway."
[X] "It's not over yet. Axton and Lancel and Kelton are still in trouble: I want to help them to."

[X] Allow Phoebe to join the discussion, you like her.
[X]Ask for something
-[X] Ask for a permeant home here in Agrithe.
[X] "It's not over yet. Axton and Lancel and Kelton are still in trouble: I want to help them to."

[X] Allow Phoebe to join the discussion, you like her.
[X]Ask for something
-[X] Ask for a permeant home here in Agrithe.
[X] "It's not over yet. Axton and Lancel and Kelton are still in trouble: I want to help them to."

[X] Allow Phoebe to join the discussion, you like her.
[X] Ask for some time to think of a reward.
[X] "It's not over yet. Axton and Lancel and Kelton are still in trouble: I want to help them to."

[X] Ask for some time to think of a reward.
[X] "It's not over yet. Axton and Lancel and Kelton are still in trouble: I want to help them to."

Hmm. Can't say we're sold on the write-in option. It's sweet and it's thematic, but...

To be blunt, we barely know these people. It's basically unavoidable at this point putting Ryza under the authority of the king since all the alternatives are worse, but the last thing I want is for us to be more directly answerable to a stranger, which seems like an unavoidable byproduct of this write-in. It's one thing to let Phoebe in on Ryza's secret, even if I disagree with that decision myself, but it's another thing entirely to give the king this much influence on us this quickly.

However, I will admit that the write-in is somewhat more appealing purely on the strength of the fixed typo. Insufficient to get my vote, but appreciated nonetheless.

[X] Allow Phoebe to join the discussion, you like her.
[X]Ask for something
-[X] Ask for a permeant home here in Agrithe.
[X] "It's not over yet. Axton and Lancel and Kelton are still in trouble: I want to help them to."

[X] Allow Phoebe to join the discussion, you like her.
[X]Ask for something
-[X] "My family...they're gone, mother and father died protecting me. I don't have anyone now, except Artemis. Mother and father would...would want me to be around people who care about me. If there's something you can do so that I can be accepted in human society and be able to spend time with Artemis, I'd like that. I'm not really sure how human nobility works. Would I need a title and some lands to be your ward or something, so I could live here? If you let me stay I can promise I'll keep Artemis safe. I want to do that anyway."
[X] "It's not over yet. Axton and Lancel and Kelton are still in trouble: I want to help them to."

Hestia&theCourt said:

To be blunt, we barely know these people. It's basically unavoidable at this point putting Ryza under the authority of the king since all the alternatives are worse, but the last thing I want is for us to be more directly answerable to a stranger, which seems like an unavoidable byproduct of this write-in. It's one thing to let Phoebe in on Ryza's secret, even if I disagree with that decision myself, but it's another thing entirely to give the king this much influence on us this quickly.

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Duke, but yes, your concerns are valid. There are a few reasons I'm willing to go ahead with it.

• Artemis doesn't seem to be afraid of her father, and what we've seen of him doesn't paint him as a cruel man. Authoritative, certainly, but not someone who appears to abuse that authority. The people who work for him also appear to be genuinely loyal and reasonably happy. That wouldn't be the case if he were a tyrant.
• Trying to force a Manakete to do anything they don't want to do would be foolish in the extreme. The Duke might have authority on paper, but in reality he'll be limited to what he can secure Ryza's willing cooperation with. And he's clearly smart enough to connect those dots on his own. Given the potential power she brings to his side, he also has every incentive to ensure Ryza is happy and cooperative.
• If things get bad for whatever reason, Ryza can simply leave. It would be very, very hard to stop her, and not worth the cost.

This is our best opportunity to declare how we'd like to slot into the existing social structure. A role with some independent resources (lands mean income, even if it's modest) and access to Artemis and high society will put us in a good position to do whatever we want to do later on.

The risks are minimal, given the personal power Ryza has to draw on, and the benefits are very significant. I think we should jump on the opportunity before it passes us by. It's not a hard commitment since Ryza can always extract herself from the situation if need be.

TaliesinSkye said:

Duke, but yes, your concerns are valid. There are a few reasons I'm willing to go ahead with it.

• Artemis doesn't seem to be afraid of her father, and what we've seen of him doesn't paint him as a cruel man. Authoritative, certainly, but not someone who appears to abuse that authority. The people who work for him also appear to be genuinely loyal and reasonably happy. That wouldn't be the case if he were a tyrant.
• Trying to force a Manakete to do anything they don't want to do would be foolish in the extreme. The Duke might have authority on paper, but in reality he'll be limited to what he can secure Ryza's willing cooperation with. And he's clearly smart enough to connect those dots on his own. Given the potential power she brings to his side, he also has every incentive to ensure Ryza is happy and cooperative.
• If things get bad for whatever reason, Ryza can simply leave. It would be very, very hard to stop her, and not worth the cost.

This is our best opportunity to declare how we'd like to slot into the existing social structure. A role with some independent resources (lands mean income, even if it's modest) and access to Artemis and high society will put us in a good position to do whatever we want to do later on.

The risks are minimal, given the personal power Ryza has to draw on, and the benefits are very significant. I think we should jump on the opportunity before it passes us by. It's not a hard commitment since Ryza can always extract herself from the situation if need be.

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The thing I'm worried about is less use of force to keep Ryza against her will and more manipulation to doing things she doesn't want to do and compromising herself "for Artemis's sake". He's a politician by trade, odds are good he knows how to manipulate somebody, and Ryza is not the kind of person who's politically savvy enough to detect any attempts at doing so. From the looks of things, Artemis is probably politically savvy to some extent, but not so much so that I think she'd detect that kind of manipulation if she grew up being molded by it, so she's not necessarily a reliable shield or a reliable tell if this is a problem.

Now, we as a voterbase are less politically naive and could maybe cut that kind of thing off as it happens with the right votes, but a lot of that would require us to make Ryza learn politics because otherwise the necessary actions would never occur to her as an option, and that will take a lot of time in which the seeds of manipulation can be sown. And meanwhile he can always control our flow of information, which we as a voterbase aren't immune to because we can only vote based on what we know about.

These are all problems to some extent anyway with putting Ryza under his authority just by asking for a permanent home, but they get much worse if we tie Ryza too closely to the Duke directly. I'd feel much safer if we just kept Ryza at a point where we stay close with Artemis and keep her parents at a safe distance until we've got a better grasp on their character.

Hestia&theCourt said:

-snip-

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Is there some reason you're underlining everything? It makes your post much harder to read.

Anyway, I don't think the problem of manipulation gets especially worse for entering into a more formal arrangement when Ryza's primary emotional vulnerability is Artemis. That relationship already exists either way.

TaliesinSkye said:

Is there some reason you're underlining everything? It makes your post much harder to read.

Anyway, I don't think the problem of manipulation gets especially worse for entering into a more formal arrangement when Ryza's primary emotional vulnerability is Artemis. That relationship already exists either way.

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It delineates who's talking: you've been talking to Maple for most of this, and now I (Hestia) am switching in to clarify what's going on. The readability issues are a known problem; we're still working on a solution that makes everyone's text instantly visually distinct without making it tricky to read anything we say. We're open to suggestions, keeping in mind that Maple still has to approve the change.

In any event, I disagree that it's not any worse with more formality and closeness. People outside of a situation can often see things someone in the situation can't; I'd prefer Ryza be that for Artemis just in case, and that necessitates us keeping our distance for now.

TaliesinSkye said:

Is there some reason you're underlining everything? It makes your post much harder to read.

Anyway, I don't think the problem of manipulation gets especially worse for entering into a more formal arrangement when Ryza's primary emotional vulnerability is Artemis. That relationship already exists either way.

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I think it's one of those "this is the individual parts of a system trying to differentiate themselves to make it understood that while they might all share a login they don't all necessarily share all of the same opinions" things?

Ryza went dragon for Artemis. She's already very emotionally connected to Artemis. Artemis is very interested in her. Artemis is our deuteragonist. We're kinda locked in here either way. We might as well acquire some leverage while we've got the chance.

Hestia&theCourt said:

We're open to suggestions, keeping in mind that Maple still has to approve the change.

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Changing fonts would be more readable while still distinct.

Or color. That would work too. A bit less readable because it doesn't adapt to light/dark themes as well as a font change, though. I do think it's probably an improvement over underlining, since that kind of makes it look like you're yelling.

Hestia&theCourt said:

In any event, I disagree that it's not any worse with more formality and closeness. People outside of a situation can often see things someone in the situation can't; I'd prefer Ryza be that for Artemis just in case, and that necessitates us keeping our distance for now.

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Do you think getting some lands and a title out of protecting Artemis (which Ryza will do anyway) is really going to bias her decision making all that much?

Appeals to titles and oaths and all that do work as a form of manipulation on some people whose self-image is very caught up in all that stuff, but I don't think that's Ryza. I think she can consider them conveniences that help her do what she wants in the human world without getting caught up in the whole 'thou shalt do honor to thy sovereign or die in ignomy!' bit. She doesn't have the sort of cultural training from birth necessary to go along with that stuff uncritically.

Barondoctor said:

I think it's one of those "this is the individual parts of a system trying to differentiate themselves to make it understood that while they might all share a login they don't all necessarily share all of the same opinions" things?

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Yes, exactly this.

TaliesinSkye said:

Changing fonts would be more readable while still distinct.

Or color. That would work too. A bit less readable because it doesn't adapt to light/dark themes as well as a font change, though. I do think it's probably an improvement over underlining, since that kind of makes it look like you're yelling.

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We'd assumed solid color would be worse than underlining since we've seen people chastised about that before. But yeah, we could probably get Maple to swap over to a font instead. Thanks for the feedback. (Relatedly, would you assume the same thing with italics as you would with underlines, or is that a different vibe? Might need to switch more than one of us over if that's the case.)

TaliesinSkye said:

Appeals to titles and oaths and all that do work as a form of manipulation on some people whose self-image is very caught up in all that stuff, but I don't think that's Ryza. I think she can consider them conveniences that help her do what she wants in the human world without getting caught up in the whole 'thou shalt do honor to thy sovereign or die in ignomy!' bit. She doesn't have the sort of cultural training from birth necessary to go along with that stuff uncritically.

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Annoyingly, I'm having difficulty arguing with that. I still disagree, but I can't articulate why yet.

TaliesinSkye said:

Do you think getting some lands and a title out of protecting Artemis (which Ryza will do anyway) is really going to bias her decision making all that much?

Appeals to titles and oaths and all that do work as a form of manipulation on some people whose self-image is very caught up in all that stuff, but I don't think that's Ryza. I think she can consider them conveniences that help her do what she wants in the human world without getting caught up in the whole 'thou shalt do honor to thy sovereign or die in ignomy!' bit. She doesn't have the sort of cultural training from birth necessary to go along with that stuff uncritically.

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While Ryza has not been socialized into aristocratic norms, Artemis and company have and Ryza is beholden to them for interpreting norms in the current time. If Ryza makes such agreements then Artemis and others would likely push Ryza to follow them so long as Letoro's conduct doesn't push too far beyond what is widely considered appropriate, which in some cases may differ from where Ryza's best/fully informed interests lay.

AnOldIdeaMadeNew said:

While Ryza has not been socialized into aristocratic norms, Artemis and company have and Ryza is beholden to them for interpreting norms in the current time. If Ryza makes such agreements then Artemis and others would likely push Ryza to follow them so long as Letoro's conduct doesn't push too far beyond what is widely considered appropriate, which in some cases may differ from where Ryza's best/fully informed interests lay.

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Yes, this. This is the thing I was trying to say but couldn't find the words for. The more explicitly Ryza ties herself to the Duke, the more likely it is that we won't be able to head off that kind of bind before it happens, because based on what I've seen, either the Duke isn't manipulating his daughter or he's very good at it. If we're going to catch that kind of thing, distance is gonna be key.

Hestia&theCourt said:

We'd assumed solid color would be worse than underlining since we've seen people chastised about that before. But yeah, we could probably get Maple to swap over to a font instead. Thanks for the feedback. (Relatedly, would you assume the same thing with italics as you would with underlines, or is that a different vibe? Might need to switch more than one of us over if that's the case.)

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Hmm. Trying it out, I think it's less 'shouty' than bold or underline. Possibly because I'm most used to seeing italics used for more than a few words not as emphasis, but to delineate a character's inner thoughts. Individual mileage may vary, though.

Hestia&theCourt said:

Yes, this. This is the thing I was trying to say but couldn't find the words for. The more explicitly Ryza ties herself to the Duke, the more likely it is that we won't be able to head off that kind of bind before it happens, because based on what I've seen, either the Duke isn't manipulating his daughter or he's very good at it. If we're going to catch that kind of thing, distance is gonna be key.

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AnOldIdeaMadeNew said:

While Ryza has not been socialized into aristocratic norms, Artemis and company have and Ryza is beholden to them for interpreting norms in the current time. If Ryza makes such agreements then Artemis and others would likely push Ryza to follow them so long as Letoro's conduct don't strain what is widely considered appropriate, which may be different from where Ryza's best/fully informed interests lay.

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I suppose the analysis becomes:

• What additional responsibilities would be created by a feudal relationship that Ryza wouldn't do anyway if Artemis asked?
  • What are the duties of a vassal in Fire Emblem to their liege? (In the real world it ranged a lot depending on culture, time period, relative power of the liege to the vassal, and other factors. It could be anything from 'respect and a degree of deference but the liege needed to bargain for anything more' to collecting taxes for the liege, military service, providing armed men at need, attending the liege's court when called, submission to the liege's rule of law, enforcing the liege's laws and proclamations, maintaining roads and other important national infrastructure, needing the liege's consent for marriage, etc.
    • How many of those apply to a woman or a child? (In feudal Europe I would rule out military service, but Fire Emblem seems a lot less sexist. The child thing probably still applies though.)
• The further question of trust, as in to what degree we think the Duke might ask things that Ryza doesn't want to do, that he would not ask simply because Ryza is present and around Artemis?
  • In other words, if he needs some enemies barbequed very badly is he substantially more likely to ask for Ryza's help in a feudal relationship than he is already?
• And finally, does the scale of the potential issue(s) outweigh the considerable benefits of the arrangement for Ryza?
  • Resources.
  • Status and a place high in human society.
  • It being in the Duke's best interest to ensure that Ryza is well.

[X] Ask for something
-[X] "My family...they're gone, mother and father died protecting me. I don't have anyone now, except Artemis. Mother and father would...would want me to be around people who care about me. If there's something you can do so that I can be accepted in human society and be able to spend time with Artemis, I'd like that. I'm not really sure how human nobility works. Would I need a title and some lands to be your ward or something, so I could live here? If you let me stay I can promise I'll keep Artemis safe. I want to do that anyway."

TaliesinSkye said:

Hmm. Trying it out, I think it's less 'shouty' than bold or underline. Possibly because I'm most used to seeing italics used for more than a few words not as emphasis, but to delineate a character's inner thoughts. Individual mileage may vary, though.




I suppose the analysis becomes:

• What additional responsibilities would be created by a feudal relationship that Ryza wouldn't do anyway if Artemis asked?
  • What are the duties of a vassal in Fire Emblem to their liege? (In the real world it ranged a lot depending on culture, time period, relative power of the liege to the vassal, and other factors. It could be anything from 'respect and a degree of deference but the liege needed to bargain for anything more' to collecting taxes for the liege, military service, providing armed men at need, attending the liege's court when called, submission to the liege's rule of law, enforcing the liege's laws and proclamations, maintaining roads and other important national infrastructure, needing the liege's consent for marriage, etc.
    • How many of those apply to a woman or a child? (In feudal Europe I would rule out military service, but Fire Emblem seems a lot less sexist. The child thing probably still applies though.)
• The further question of trust, as in to what degree we think the Duke might ask things that Ryza doesn't want to do, that he would not ask simply because Ryza is present and around Artemis?
  • In other words, if he needs some enemies barbequed very badly is he substantially more likely to ask for Ryza's help in a feudal relationship than he is already?
• And finally, does the scale of the potential issue(s) outweigh the considerable benefits of the arrangement for Ryza?
  • Resources.
  • Status and a place high in human society.
  • It being in the Duke's best interest to ensure that Ryza is well.

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We'll get a front row seat to these relationships in practice when Letoro summons his vassals for aid and counsel in dealing with Mantrae. It might be best to defer the favor to a later date when we have a better idea of what we are getting and giving up.

[X] Allow Phoebe to join the discussion, you like her.
[X] Ask for some time to think of a reward.
[X] "It's not over yet. Axton and Lancel and Kelton are still in trouble: I want to help them to."

TaliesinSkye said:

Hmm. Trying it out, I think it's less 'shouty' than bold or underline. Possibly because I'm most used to seeing italics used for more than a few words not as emphasis, but to delineate a character's inner thoughts. Individual mileage may vary, though.

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Thanks for the added feedback! Eleanora's probably fine, then.

Though I am intrigued by the Book Antiqua font. That might suit me better than italics regardless.

AnOldIdeaMadeNew said:

We're get a front row seat to these relationships in practice when Letoro summons his vassals for aid and counsel in dealing with Mantrae. It might be best to defer the favor to a later date when we have a better idea of what we are getting and giving up.

[X] Ask for some time to think of a reward.

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Ah, that is a very good point. If our chief problem is "we don't know this guy very well", waiting on the favor until we have a better grasp on who he is seems prudent.

[X] Allow Phoebe to join the discussion, you like her.
[X] Ask for some time to think of a reward.
[X] "It's not over yet. Axton and Lancel and Kelton are still in trouble: I want to help them to."

[X] You don't want someone else to be scared of you.
[X] Ask for something
-[X] Ask for help in reclaiming your old home.
[X] "I… haven't thought that far ahead."

gonna support the reclaiming the old home. I have to ask though if we get the permanent home would that lock out ever reclaiming the old home?

Honestly, I'd like a conflict of deciding which do we choose our Mankete half or human half. but I understand why everyone wants to throw in with Artemis as there really is nothing much left back at Ryza's old home. Here's to hoping it the bandits didn't.... oh who am I kidding. the bandits probably ate the rations there, stole the gold and gems and left the scrolls. Anyways, as much as it doesn't have much value, it still is a home that can be repaired. this is very much holding an attachment and lingering hope in the fact idea of Ryza not giving up on it.

Also as much as it is 'smart' to bring in more people on the secret of being a Mankete, I want Ryza to still be hesitant on it and keeping it only to Artemis for now.

Weaving_Dreamer said:

[X] You don't want someone else to be scared of you.
[X] Ask for something
-[X] Ask for help in reclaiming your old home.
[X] "I… haven't thought that far ahead."

gonna support the reclaiming the old home. I have to ask though if we get the permanent home would that lock out ever reclaiming the old home?

Honestly, I'd like a conflict of deciding which do we choose our Mankete half or human half. but I understand why everyone wants to throw in with Artemis as there really is nothing much left back at Ryza's old home. Here's to hoping it the bandits didn't.... oh who am I kidding. the bandits probably ate the rations there, stole the gold and gems and left the scrolls. Anyways, as much as it doesn't have much value, it still is a home that can be repaired. this is very much holding an attachment and lingering hope in the fact idea of Ryza not giving up on it.

Also as much as it is 'smart' to bring in more people on the secret of being a Mankete, I want Ryza to still be hesitant on it and keeping it only to Artemis for now.

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What would reclaiming the mountain look like? Aside from the stuff that Ryza can reclaim and bring wherever she wants, it's just an empty tunnel system now. There are no other manaketes to share it with.

Ryza could build the same thing elsewhere once she learns the magic to do so. And it's awfully far from Artemis' home. I'm not sure what the purpose of reclaiming it would be, all together.

Hestia&theCourt said:

To be blunt, we barely know these people. It's basically unavoidable at this point putting Ryza under the authority of the king since all the alternatives are worse, but the last thing I want is for us to be more directly answerable to a stranger, which seems like an unavoidable byproduct of this write-in. It's one thing to let Phoebe in on Ryza's secret, even if I disagree with that decision myself, but it's another thing entirely to give the king this much influence on us this quickly.

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Ryza knows Artemis, unless she's a much better liar than she's let on. The rest we only know because of what Artemis said, but I feel comfortable trusting Artemis's family for several reasons.

1. Fire Emblem. The Lord's immediate family is rarely outright villainous; it's probably happened sometimes, but I can't think of any examples.
2. Artemis seems like a smart cookie. She trusts her parents with Ryza, so they can probably be trusted to not abuse her.
3. Artemis also cares about Ryza. If Archduke Leto tries to exploit Ryza through this gift, Artemis is likely to see it and speak up in Ryza's defense.
4. There's a limited amount that the Archduke could plausibly do through this kind of gift that he couldn't do otherwise. He's a high-ranking noble; from a legal perspective, we're just a commoner.

I also think that what risk there is makes for a better narrative. If Leto is the kind of noble who'd try to exploit a dragon tween who just saved his daughter, this is a dramatic way to find that out (before he does too much harm to Ryza's friends in other ways). It also opens up new narrative possibilities, depending on the exact nature of the duties/privileges the Archduke gives Ryza.

And, of course, Ryza's a bit naïve. She found out that nobles existed earlier this month. She doesn't have any sense of the danger she might be inviting by asking for this kind of reward; that danger would need to be pretty perilous for me to vote that she avoids it! And I don't think it is, particularly.

TaliesinSkye said:

Do you think getting some lands and a title out of protecting Artemis (which Ryza will do anyway) is really going to bias her decision making all that much?

Appeals to titles and oaths and all that do work as a form of manipulation on some people whose self-image is very caught up in all that stuff, but I don't think that's Ryza.

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Bit of devil's advocacy, but...in the long term, absolutely. Maybe not in the way that Hestia's arguing, but definitely in some ways. To start with, Ryza will feel like she needs to follow the norms of whatever position she ends up with. That's both how norms work, and particularly true of Ryza, who is both a child and unmoored from her previous society. (And a kind people-pleaser, desperate for something to replace the hole in her heart where her parents used to be.)

And if she's given a significant noble title? All the more so. First off, she's a precentennial dragon, so she's obviously going to have some kind of advisor at the very least telling her how to do her job, what kind of person a baroness should strive to be. Perhaps more significantly, she'll have power over people, legitimized by an institution people respect and fear. That's going to seriously shape how she develops, especially if she doesn't get any decent substitute parents.

Of course, any meaningful gift the Archduke gives Ryza will shape her. (That's arguably what makes it meaningful!) A landed title more than most, but (for instance) giving Ryza help in setting up her old mountainhome would also influence her. It would encourage her to ask for help from people like Leto when she has a big project, and depending on how much/what the help entailed, even the physical space she lives in could be shaped as much by the Archduke as by Ryza's parents.

Weaving_Dreamer said:

gonna support the reclaiming the old home. I have to ask though if we get the permanent home would that lock out ever reclaiming the old home?

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No more than the reverse would. Probably less—the mountain will still be there when Artemis's grandchildren rule Agrithe, but if we left for the mountain and want to move back, we'd have to convince people here to give us a place to live.

Here's to hoping it the bandits didn't.... oh who am I kidding. the bandits probably ate the rations there, stole the gold and gems and left the scrolls.

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If it makes you feel better, we left a lot of that stuff in Ryza's millennium chamber.


Off-topic:

Hestia&theCourt said:

It delineates who's talking: you've been talking to Maple for most of this, and now I (Hestia) am switching in to clarify what's going on. The readability issues are a known problem; we're still working on a solution that makes everyone's text instantly visually distinct without making it tricky to read anything we say. We're open to suggestions, keeping in mind that Maple still has to approve the change.

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My biggest suggestion would be to provide a brief explanation in your forum signature, so you don't have to re-explain/re-link what's going on in every new thread. Or, more likely, multiple times per thread. This goes double if you're hoping people remember who writes with which font! It's easy to remember that Hestia uses the default font, since her name is in your username, but the court is another matter...
(You can edit your signature by clicking on your username in the upper right-hand corner and clicking on the "Signature" option.)

GreatWyrmGold said:

Ryza knows Artemis, unless she's a much better liar than she's let on. The rest we only know because of what Artemis said, but I feel comfortable trusting Artemis's family for several reasons.

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For the record, being smart doesn't make you immune to manipulation, and can make you more susceptible to it because you think you're too smart to be tricked, lied to, or otherwise handled. This is doubly true with family members.

That being said, your points about the way the narrative could go and what's in-character for Ryza are pretty compelling to me, at least. We'll have to chew on that one a little bit, see if that changes the balance of what we want to vote for.

GreatWyrmGold said:

My biggest suggestion would be to provide a brief explanation in your forum signature, so you don't have to re-explain/re-link what's going on in every new thread. Or, more likely, multiple times per thread. This goes double if you're hoping people remember who writes with which font! It's easy to remember that Hestia uses the default font, since her name is in your username, but the court is another matter...

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Yyyeah, if this conversation's shown us anything, it's that what we had in our signature and About Me already was not nearly as clear as we thought it was. Some tinkering and restructuring is definitely in order.