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Fire Emblem: Last of the Manakete

What would readers prefer?

  • Pure narrative quest: no dice will be used, the author will have free reign to decide what happens.

    Votes: 25 59.5%

  • New dice system: the author will design a new, better dice system to add some randomness and risk.

    Votes: 17 40.5%
  • Total voters
    42
  • Poll closed .
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TaliesinSkye said:
Absolutely. I was just making an argument for why Ryza could reasonably not be going as fast as something her size by all rights should, which would be 80+mph to avoid stalling.

Pegasus Knights sighting a dragon up close is leading, somehow. If that wins I think the only hope we might have is going with the 'I'm a mage that can shapeshift into the form of a dragon' excuse sooner than I would have liked.
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To look at it from the other side...we're already heading for Agrithe. The "circle back and try to save Sypha Mantrae" option is out the window as is the "turn back and fight" option.

The purpose of heading to Agrithe is to safely get Artemis to a place of safety to be able to regroup and do something.

Exposing Artemis to a host of Pegasus Knights doesn't serve that aim.

I'd rather risk one mysterious stranger than a bunch of Pegasus Knights, but I'd rather risk none of them altogether and do whatever the aerial version of a maximum-quiet submarine trip would be.

Especially because there is no way you could pretend Ryza is a wyvern.
 
Hmm... so. The rush option and associated arguments... 'Ryza will be hunted down' was mostly an issue under Artemis's assumption that we would be taking the relatively slow land-route, stopping by villages and towns to rest and resupply and whatnot. If we're just flying directly to our destination with fewer uses of the ritual... then the chances of someone being able to make an attempt on Ryza's dragonstone are significantly lower; They're only really vulnerable to air units like the Pegasus knights, or while resting.

It seems unlikely that the Pegasus Knights would make an attempt, but it's not impossible. Mysterious Stranger, could be a problem or could not be, but we'll have to explain why there's just two girls taking a rest where a 'Wyvern' landed, with no Wyvern in sight.

Bandits... are high risk (half-shifting gimps our combat potential) but are also likely to be an event we can't just ignore, to justify Ryza and Artemis actually interacting with the bandits rather than just flying past.

Because these are the only three listed events for this option, I would assume we won't be ambushed during a rest or something if we encounter the Pegasus Knights. Similarly, I would assume we won't be ambushed while flying if we opt for the mysterious stranger.

Stranger or Bandits could tie into the Syphe plotline; Pegasus Knights tend to be mercenaries or soldiers in FE, as far as I recall. If we're lucky, they work for Artemis's family and are willing to escort us the rest of the way, or are willing to be hired by us, payment-on-arrival. If we're unlucky, they're currently employed by someone untrustworthy, and will have to make a report, blowing the secret wide open.

Under the assumption that the secret does get blown open... while we're hanging out in Agrithe, we should be relatively safe from those seeking our stone, having the protection of the local lords and all... just, y'know, be careful not to get kidnapped or have someone break into our room or anything like that. But... we can probably take precautions against that.

Of course, there's also the argument that flying with minimal breaks and minimal uses of the ritual is beneficial for ensuring our dragon-self doesn't hate us... and if the Pegasus Knights can ferry us the rest of the way to further reduce how much we need to half-shift, all the better.

Speed also somewhat reduces the chances of anything happening to our captured friends, but... not to a noteworthy degree given other possible delays, such as Artemis's father needing to make the preparations/negotiations/authorizations to have Axton, Lancel, and Kelton freed. If something is going to happen to them, it's probably going to happen regardless of whether we go fast or slow, but fast at least reduces it from 'almost guaranteed' to merely 'probably', and if nothing is going to happen to them, well, nothing is going to happen to them either way.

[X] Travel as fast as you can, resting only when needed. This will make your journey far shorter; it will also be nearly impossible for Countess Mantrae's people to catch up. However, you're almost certain to be spotted, and may even have a notable encounter (Choose one encounter).
-[X] A wing of curious Pegasus Knights intercept you.
 
Ryumancer said:
Hmm... so. The rush option and associated arguments... 'Ryza will be hunted down' was mostly an issue under Artemis's assumption that we would be taking the relatively slow land-route, stopping by villages and towns to rest and resupply and whatnot. If we're just flying directly to our destination with fewer uses of the ritual... then the chances of someone being able to make an attempt on Ryza's dragonstone are significantly lower; They're only really vulnerable to air units like the Pegasus knights, or while resting.

It seems unlikely that the Pegasus Knights would make an attempt, but it's not impossible. Mysterious Stranger, could be a problem or could not be, but we'll have to explain why there's just two girls taking a rest where a 'Wyvern' landed, with no Wyvern in sight.

Bandits... are high risk (half-shifting gimps our combat potential) but are also likely to be an event we can't just ignore, to justify Ryza and Artemis actually interacting with the bandits rather than just flying past.

Because these are the only three listed events for this option, I would assume we won't be ambushed during a rest or something if we encounter the Pegasus Knights. Similarly, I would assume we won't be ambushed while flying if we opt for the mysterious stranger.

Stranger or Bandits could tie into the Syphe plotline; Pegasus Knights tend to be mercenaries or soldiers in FE, as far as I recall. If we're lucky, they work for Artemis's family and are willing to escort us the rest of the way, or are willing to be hired by us, payment-on-arrival. If we're unlucky, they're currently employed by someone untrustworthy, and will have to make a report, blowing the secret wide open.

Under the assumption that the secret does get blown open... while we're hanging out in Agrithe, we should be relatively safe from those seeking our stone, having the protection of the local lords and all... just, y'know, be careful not to get kidnapped or have someone break into our room or anything like that. But... we can probably take precautions against that.

Of course, there's also the argument that flying with minimal breaks and minimal uses of the ritual is beneficial for ensuring our dragon-self doesn't hate us... and if the Pegasus Knights can ferry us the rest of the way to further reduce how much we need to half-shift, all the better.

Speed also somewhat reduces the chances of anything happening to our captured friends, but... not to a noteworthy degree given other possible delays, such as Artemis's father needing to make the preparations/negotiations/authorizations to have Axton, Lancel, and Kelton freed. If something is going to happen to them, it's probably going to happen regardless of whether we go fast or slow, but fast at least reduces it from 'almost guaranteed' to merely 'probably', and if nothing is going to happen to them, well, nothing is going to happen to them either way.

[X] Travel as fast as you can, resting only when needed. This will make your journey far shorter; it will also be nearly impossible for Countess Mantrae's people to catch up. However, you're almost certain to be spotted, and may even have a notable encounter (Choose one encounter).
-[X] A wing of curious Pegasus Knights intercept you.
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Even the night only travel option is very fast; we're not really stopping in random villages and stuff. It'll take less than two days.

Keeping Ryza's secret is massively better than not doing so. Even if she can fend off attackers (and while she's a strong combatant, ancient humans with no magic still managed to massacre the entire Manakete race, including those far, far stronger than Ryza) being hounded will get in the way of getting productive things done. It'll also make her a burden on anyone who might otherwise be hospitable.

Being discovered will be a huge negative turning point in Ryza's life that will forever reduce her options and quality of life. I want to stop that from happening, ideally at all, but if it must happen then give her some time to grow in power and allies first.
 
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Ryumancer said:
Depends on a LOT of factors. It would be nice if we could get confirmation from the GM on how long it'll take, tbh.
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Yeah. The estimates are based on conservative numbers though, and we did get GM confirmation that the distance is roughly 400-450 miles. Even at super slow bird flight speeds that's just not long to cover.
 
[X] Travel only at night. You will be less likely to be spotted, and in general you'll be better rested. However, it will take noticeably longer to get back to Agrithe. You will have time to do some fun things while you're resting (Choose one activity).
-[X] Talk to Artemis about what the world is like.
 
[X] Travel only at night. You will be less likely to be spotted, and in general you'll be better rested. However, it will take noticeably longer to get back to Agrithe. You will have time to do some fun things while you're resting (Choose one activity).
-[X] Read a scroll (What scroll will you read?)
--[X] The Dragon Within
 
Ryumancer said:
Depends on a LOT of factors. It would be nice if we could get confirmation from the GM on how long it'll take, tbh.
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I ran the ugliest, most conservative, most unfavorable numbers I could find. Here. I concluded that in a worst-of-predictable-cases arrangement we arrive in approximately three days if we go the full-stealth route and the chances of being caught by pursuit are microscopic.
 
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Timing of getting to Agrithe (and another note)
  • Informational
    • Ryumancer said:
    Depends on a LOT of factors. It would be nice if we could get confirmation from the GM on how long it'll take, tbh.
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    Based on some very rough math on my part, it'll probably take about two and a half "days" of purely nighttime travel to reach Agrithe.

    It's spring, so that's about 12 hours per night.

    About thirty miles per hour so as not to overly strain Ryza's weakened half-shifted form, especially since Artemis will be riding her.

    Assuming she flies for three hours, rests for one, then takes another hour to recast the ritual, you can safely fit two jumps into a night.
    (30 mph * 3 hours) * 2 jumps = 180 miles per "day"
    450 miles / 180 miles per "day"= 2.5 "days"

    The hour or so of then flying around trying to find Castle Agrithe is negligible, so we'll ignore it. (I also got the same answer with three 2 hour jumps in a night.)

    Ryza would want to push through, but Artemis would make sure she gets at least 6 hours of sleep, so that's 18 hours of travel time. Alternating between 3 hour flights and 2 hour flights, that would give 4 jumps:
    Two of 90 miles (30 mph * 3 hours)
    Two of 60 miles (30 mph * 2 hours)
    For a total of 300 miles in a day
    (90 * 2) + (60 * 2) = 300

    Then, after sleeping, 3 more hours of flight time gets the duo over the 450 mark, with plenty left to wander about in the air to try and find Castle Agrithe.

    Ultimately, however, I will admit I'm less interested in the nitty-gritty math of this and more interested in the story: are you all willing to risk some entanglements to go faster, or will you play it safer and go slower, which does give you some time to do other things but might lead to other consequences?

    I mean, I'll play the math game if that's what's really needed to keep things semi-realistic, but it's not my favorite part of story writing. Maybe that's a weakness of mine, maybe it's not, but it's where I'm at right now.

    EDIT: @GreatWyrmGold brought up a good point about giving a fair idea of opportunity costs.

    Based on the same rough math, if Ryza were to fly during the day, she would hit a point where Artemis would force her to take a longer rest/nap, but that would be after getting most of the way to Agrithe; close enough that one last jump would probably make it. So that would mean it would take a bit over a day to reach Agrithe by that method; a day and a half faster than only night travel.
     
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  • Informational
    • [X] Travel only at night. You will be less likely to be spotted, and in general you'll be better rested. However, it will take noticeably longer to get back to Agrithe. You will have time to do some fun things while you're resting (Choose one activity).
    -[X] Begin practicing White magic
    I am extremely startled so many people are willing to blow our cover like nothing bad could possibly happen because of it. And to a group of Knights! Of all the people who are guaranteed to instantly notice something is weird and get all up in our business about it!

    SoaringHawk218 said:
    "Screw you guys, I'm going home!"
    - Cartkith's dragon-self in the manakete children's story Marikara's Friend
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    *snort*
    I did not see that reference coming.
     
    [X] Travel as fast as you can, resting only when needed. This will make your journey far shorter; it will also be nearly impossible for Countess Mantrae's people to catch up. However, you're almost certain to be spotted, and may even have a notable encounter (Choose one encounter).
    -[X] A wing of curious Pegasus Knights intercept you.
     
    TaliesinSkye said:
    The downside is that if the existence of dragons gets out, Ryza will almost certainly be hunted. Her stone alone is an utterly priceless instrument of magic, probably the reason humans hunted down all the other dragons originally. Recall the way Artemis goggled at Ryza having an entire stone. Even the shards are apparently stupendously valuable.
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    Okay, first off, have you heard of sarcasm? Second off, that's only a risk if the people run into Ryza in dragon form, which definitely won't happen with the Mysterious Stranger event and might not happen with the Pegasus Knights one. (Probably will, but maybe they won't.)

    Second off, my estimation of the threat posed by wannabe dragonslayers is considerably lower than yours. First off, in a pre-telegraph world, news of this dragon-girl is going to travel slow as molasses, and it wouldn't get very far before becoming indistinguishable from whatever the local equivalent of Bigfoot sightings is. It would take a consistent pattern of sightings before anyone would dig out their Wyrmslayers over it...and before it got to that point, Ryza, Artemis, and anyone in Artemis's family who she told would also hear about these rumors, so we'd have time to prepare.
    Which is important, because that preparation could easily involve a certain quasi-royal family announcing that the dragon is under their protection. I find it plausible that dragonstones would be "mess with a dragon" valuable, but not "mess with an archduchy" valuable.

    Finally...this is a story. My choices, as always, are influenced by what I think would make for a good story. Meeting some new people makes for a good story. Ryza needing to hide her dragon side makes it more interesting. And breaking the Masquerade, while unlikely to result from this one meeting, could be interesting—or at least could prevent said Masquerade from growing stale and annoying.


    TaliesinSkye said:
    Dragons have four legs, wyverns have 2. I don't think pegasus knights who are likely to have seen actual wyverns will mess it up while they're up close.

    I'm also very worried about them attacking what appears to be a beast kidnapping a girl. And if Ryza has to speak to get them to stop that really blows her cover.
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    I would think pegasus knights who have seen wyverns (and probably wyvern-riders) up close would be able to tell the difference between someone being kidnapped by a monster and someone riding a monster.
    And while Ryza talking would both explain the situation and blow her cover...Artemis can also talk. "This is my noble steed, look how 'tame' she is" dispels those fears just as easily.


    Barondoctor said:
    The purpose of heading to Agrithe is to safely get Artemis to a place of safety to be able to regroup and do something.

    Exposing Artemis to a host of Pegasus Knights doesn't serve that aim.
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    So, you think that a complete stranger is less likely to endanger Artemis than some pegasus knights? Do you think she'd be attacked by pegasus knights from the Whitewings, a group Artemis was going to ask for help, or that there's a group of hostile hitherfore-unmentioned pegasus knights who might show up and attack?

    Especially because there is no way you could pretend Ryza is a wyvern.
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    Unless you count "comically failing to convince them".


    SoaringHawk218 said:
    I mean, I'll play the math game if that's what's really needed to keep things semi-realistic, but it's not my favorite part of story writing. Maybe that's a weakness of mine, maybe it's not, but it's where I'm at right now.
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    I think it's less a matter of realism, and more a matter of trying to figure out the actual costs and benefits of each course of action. The costs of taking the faster route are clear—no chance to read, plus an interesting encounter—but the cost of taking our time is not. Are we saving half a day, or half a week?
    Now, I'm interested in the encounters for their own sake and consider the saved time to just be a bonus; I don't care much about the exact number. But it seemingly does to other people, particularly who are on the fence.
     
    [X] Travel only at night. You will be less likely to be spotted, and in general you'll be better rested. However, it will take noticeably longer to get back to Agrithe. You will have time to do some fun things while you're resting (Choose one activity).
    -[X] Read a scroll (What scroll will you read?)
    --[X] The Dragon Within
     
    GreatWyrmGold said:
    I think it's less a matter of realism, and more a matter of trying to figure out the actual costs and benefits of each course of action. The costs of taking the faster route are clear—no chance to read, plus an interesting encounter—but the cost of taking our time is not. Are we saving half a day, or half a week?
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    Okay, that's fair. Editing in what it would probably look like when including day travel.
     
    Not being spotted is rather more important than raw speed. 180 miles per day is probably gonna outpace everyone, and we don't want to be too public with this. Odd that the vote implies that only blitzing it makes it impossible to be caught up to, I'm surprised they can cover 180 miles a day. Hell, I'd prefer to stop shifting before we get close. First impressions are key, and smol brave mage is a better first impression than a dragon. Kingly acknowledgement and gratitude is literally the ideal way for us to become public.

    Also, definitely need to find any opportunity to let our actual dragon out or otherwise commune with her. Should not sabotage our relationship with our other half and Ultimate Panic Button, half shifting needs to be emergencies only.

    [X] Travel only at night. You will be less likely to be spotted, and in general you'll be better rested. However, it will take noticeably longer to get back to Agrithe. You will have time to do some fun things while you're resting (Choose one activity).
     
    [X] Travel only at night. You will be less likely to be spotted, and in general you'll be better rested. However, it will take noticeably longer to get back to Agrithe. You will have time to do some fun things while you're resting (Choose one activity).
    -[X] Begin practicing White magic
     
    ChronOblivion said:
    Also, definitely need to find any opportunity to let our actual dragon out or otherwise commune with her. Should not sabotage our relationship with our other half and Ultimate Panic Button, half shifting needs to be emergencies only.
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    Yeah, I was worrying about this while reading the update. Ryza and Ryza Limited Edition Dragon Variant seem to be on deeply close terms. Let's not cause ourselves long term issues by harshing the mellow!
     
    [X] Travel only at night. You will be less likely to be spotted, and in general you'll be better rested. However, it will take noticeably longer to get back to Agrithe. You will have time to do some fun things while you're resting (Choose one activity).
    -[X] Read a scroll (What scroll will you read?)
    --[X] The Dragon Within
     
    GreatWyrmGold said:
    Second off, my estimation of the threat posed by wannabe dragonslayers is considerably lower than yours.
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    Why take a large, unnecessary risk? Whatever your evaluation of the odds, and you're entitled to disagree with me about those, it's still an unforced error.

    GreatWyrmGold said:
    I would think pegasus knights who have seen wyverns (and probably wyvern-riders) up close would be able to tell the difference between someone being kidnapped by a monster and someone riding a monster.
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    I think you may have missed the critical detail that Ryza is too spiny to be particularly rideable. She has to carry Artemis in her forelimbs while in flight. Like a monster kidnapping someone. It doesn't look nearly as good as if Artemis were actually riding her.

    GreatWyrmGold said:
    So, you think that a complete stranger is less likely to endanger Artemis than some pegasus knights? Do you think she'd be attacked by pegasus knights from the Whitewings, a group Artemis was going to ask for help, or that there's a group of hostile hitherfore-unmentioned pegasus knights who might show up and attack?
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    Being approached by someone while not a dragon preserves the possibility of keeping the secret. Being approached by knights while clutching Artemis like she's kidnapped her reveals the existence of dragons for sure, and might cause those noble knights to feel they have to intervene due to a misunderstanding. And if a mysterious stranger were a threat, well, Artemis can deal with that. Not that I think mysteriou stranger is the best option, but it's better than the knights.

    GreatWyrmGold said:
    Finally...this is a story. My choices, as always, are influenced by what I think would make for a good story. Meeting some new people makes for a good story. Ryza needing to hide her dragon side makes it more interesting. And breaking the Masquerade, while unlikely to result from this one meeting, could be interesting—or at least could prevent said Masquerade from growing stale and annoying.
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    This is not just a story, though. This is a quest on the quests board. I don't know how many forum quests you've been involved in before, but quests are games. People take doing as well as possible at them as a serious intellectual challenge, and they will get very upset if you ruin everything for them by making clearly poor choices just because you think they're interesting, or funny, or for any other motivation. It's a bit like playing a board game and deliberately throwing the game because you're more entertained that way. It's a violation of the social contract.

    We can have honest disagreements about what the best choices are for the characters to make, but deliberately making bad choices because you want to read about the outcomes isn't fair to everyone who takes the game aspect seriously. Please respect them and the questing format by putting forth an honest effort at doing your best for the characters.
     
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    [X] Travel as fast as you can, resting only when needed. This will make your journey far shorter; it will also be nearly impossible for Countess Mantrae's people to catch up. However, you're almost certain to be spotted, and may even have a notable encounter (Choose oneencounter).
    -[X] A mysterious stranger runs into you while you rest.
     
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    TaliesinSkye said:
    Ryza's back is spikey, so Artemis is being carried by Ryza's forelimbs.
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    I should have corrected this misconception a while ago, my apologies, but Ryza has ridden on her parent's backs in the past. It's tricky to wedge yourself in between the spines, and it would certainly look very odd, but it's not impossible.

    The reason Ryza carried Artemis before was because she heard someone coming up the stairs, panicked, and grabbed Artemis and made a break for it rather than take the time to get her settled properly.
     
    TaliesinSkye said:
    Why take a large, unnecessary risk? Whatever your evaluation of the odds, and you're entitled to disagree with me about those, it's still an unforced error.
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    First off, I thought I made it clear that I don't consider it to be a large risk, either in the sense that I think it's likely or that I think it'll lead to dragonslayers hunting Ryza in the streets.

    Second, taking a risk is necessary. No matter how much you ignore that taking longer to reach Artemis's is a risk, it is one. By your logic, you are also taking an unnecessary risk, just a different one.

    I think you may have missed the critical detail that Ryza is too spiny to be particularly rideable. She has to carry Artemis in her forelimbs while in flight. Like a monster kidnapping someone. It doesn't look nearly as good as if Artemis were actually riding her.
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    Fair point. However, I'd like to point to one of my other points that you ignored—Artemis can also talk!

    Being approached by someone while not a dragon preserves the possibility of keeping the secret. Being approached by knights while clutching Artemis like she's kidnapped her reveals the existence of dragons for sure, and might cause those noble knights to feel they have to intervene due to a misunderstanding. And if a mysterious stranger were a threat, well, Artemis can deal with that. Not that I think mysteriou stranger is the best option, but it's better than the knights.
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    The argument was specifically "Exposing Artemis to the pegasus knights puts Artemis in danger".

    Not everything I post here is in response to you—sometimes it's in response to the person whose post is quoted directly above the thing I'm saying.

    This is not just a story, though. This is a quest on the quests board. I don't know how many forum quests you've been involved in before, but quests are games. People take doing as well as possible at them as a serious intellectual challenge, and they will get very upset if you ruin everything for them by making clearly poor choices just because you think they're interesting, or funny, or for any other motivation. It's a bit like playing a board game and deliberately throwing the game because you're more entertained that way. It's a violation of the social contract.

    We can have honest disagreements about what the best choices are for the characters to make, but deliberately making bad choices because you want to read about the outcomes isn't fair to everyone who takes the game aspect seriously. Please respect them and the questing format by putting forth an honest effort at doing your best for the characters.
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    I feel like you're misrepresenting me here. I am not making a "deliberately bad" choice. (If I was, why would I bother explaining why I thought it was a good choice?) I am making a choice I think is perfectly reasonable, suboptimal at worst, and mentioning side benefits of that choice.

    Also, the idea that all Quest-goers are interested in mechanical optimization all the time is at best wrong and at worst No-True-Scotsmanning. There are, in fact, entire Quests dominated by people concerned about story first and optimization second (at best)—There Are Only Three Levels comes to mind. (Stuff like The Rei Anami Raising Project is a bit more ambiguous—people obviously care about Rei's well-being, but she's the focus of the Quest, so you could probably define that as mechanical optimization if you tried.) Hell, even in this thread, there are choices driven by more than rote mechanical optimization, most often "What would Ryza do?"
    I don't know if you actually believe this heap of stinking garbage or if you're just trying to convince other people to believe it, but it's nonsense.
     
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    Boy, thinkin about it now, how would Ryza interact with the FE Heroes? She's gonna be happy there are dragon units there but idk what else.
     
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